Wolcott's Mill, MI, Oct. 19-21, 2007

[Beaner]

Brothers,
Now that I have your attention, I need your help. We are starting a new event in Michigan; Wolcott Mill. It will be held Oct. 19th through 21st, 2007. Our goal is to improve the authenticity and quality of Michigan Events. This event is not 100% authentic but is moving towards that goal. We are holding a Masonic gathering on Saturday Evening and possibly a Widows and Orphans table.. We are looking for fellow brothers and enactors with the same heart as we have. Providing a good example is the best way for us to enlighten those looking to become more authentic in their impression. We are projecting 4 military camps. Two veterans camps and two campaign camps.
We are also looking for authentic civilians. Our sponsor is looking for authentic 19th century civilian impressions and demonstrations. There will be a separate authentic civilian camp area. We are looking to place near the Mill.
We are in discussions with two preservation organizations: "Save the Flags" and Historic Ft. Wayne, Detroit. We are asking them to participate in our event to improve public awareness of the their preservation efforts.
Bottom line is we need you! There is no cost to participate. Your help will be greatly appreciated. We can be contacted by emailing us at: Mailto:skirmishatthemill@yahoo.com
Will Eichler (Federal) and John Difatta (Confederate) will be overall commanders.

Dave Prince
Walled lake # 528
4th Texas Co. E

Wolcott Mill is a 19th Century Mill and the event is a fundraiser for its' preservation needs

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Wolcott Mill has been held for years; I attended that event in 1997 and 1999. It's simply not been held since, I think, 2004 or so.

The site isn't what I'd call entirely conducive to hardcore campaigning--it's got a lot of electric site lights along its walkways and on the old tactical courses offered on Saturday at that event, we usually were pretty nearby a large, overhead electric transmission tower or two; the line runs right through the middle of the site.

And this announcement should really be in the Events/2007 Events/Other Events folder.

[Chris Suppelsa]

Brothers,
Now that I have your attention, I need your help. We are starting a new event in Michigan; Wolcott Mill. It will be held Oct. 19th through 21st, 2007. Our goal is to improve the authenticity and quality of Michigan Events. This event is not 100% authentic but is moving towards that goal. We are holding a Masonic gathering on Saturday Evening and possibly a Widows and Orphans table.. We are looking for fellow brothers and enactors with the same heart as we have. Providing a good example is the best way for us to enlighten those looking to become more authentic in their impression. We are projecting 4 military camps. Two veterans camps and two campaign camps.
We are also looking for authentic civilians. Our sponsor is looking for authentic 19th century civilian impressions and demonstrations. There will be a separate authentic civilian camp area. We are looking to place near the Mill.
We are in discussions with two preservation organizations: "Save the Flags" and Historic Ft. Wayne, Detroit. We are asking them to participate in our event to improve public awareness of the their preservation efforts.
Bottom line is we need you! There is no cost to participate. Your help will be greatly appreciated. We can be contacted by emailing us at: Mailto:skirmishatthemill@yahoo.com
Will Eichler (Federal) and John Difatta (Confederate) will be overall commanders.

Dave Prince
Walled lake # 528
4th Texas Co. E

Wolcott Mill is a 19th Century Mill and the event is a fundraiser for its' preservation needs

You know I'm there. The event used to be hosted by the 17th Michigan, and was indeed mainstream. They stopped hosting the event in 2005.

[John Legg]

I went in 2004. It was alright for the one day i went...
It was the first year Will and I got together.
Im glad that they are starting it again. This year will be much more better than the last time i went.

Im in.

Cheers,

John

[Beaner]

Brothers,

We discussed the Widows and Orphans table and will not be conducting one. We don't want to interfere or copy what other Brothers are doing. Their work is to be commended and honored. We have discussed other options and we are planning a completely different scenario. The gathering will still be held Saturday evening. More to follow.


Dave Prince
Walled Lake #528
4th Texas Co. E

[Dan Wambaugh]

Dave,

Would not another site for the event be more condusive to the type of events that the AC normally encourages? As Kevin has stated, the large electrical towers and modern buildings on the mill grounds itself would certainly defeat any authentic atmosphere we would be trying for at an event.

If you are choosing the event site with proximity to the Detroit metro area in mind, would Kensington metro park not be a better choice? I know that a great deal of luck was had with putting on good quality events there in the late 90s, and I think the only barrier that was found in regard to holding new events was a lack of people willing to step forward and help out. The park has several areas that are remote enough to allow for immersion, and yet near enough to allow for a fairly short travel time for most folks in the state.

Just a humble suggestion from someone who has been there and tried that. Good luck with the event!


Best,

[KCLoewe]

I must ditto what Dan said. Kensington would be a great place for an event. I've been to Wolcott in the past and had fun but it was definately a mainstream event. If what Dave is talking about is what the goal is (a more progressive event in Michigan) then I'd say a change of venue would be a good idea. Historic Ft. Wayne is an obvious choice for a great venue, but outside of a garrison event Kensington would be a great area to do things.

[Beaner]

Dan & Kevin,

I didn't put Wolcott in the authentic events area for a reason. Wolcott has it's impurities, but, we have to start somewhere. Sponsors have to offer their locatons for us to use them. Kensington isn't available. Just ask the 5th Texas. Wolcott has over 3,000 acres to offer. We are using some of this. As the event develops we will be using more of it. Yes, Wolcott has power lines. It also has security lights around the Mill proper. Unfortunely, modern times and people who paint griffti on historical buildings have created the need for this. I believe if you check Historical Fort Wayne also has security lights and power lines.

There two federal camps, two confederate, and two civilian camp areas, so we can provide the atmospheres all participants wish to enjoy.

The goal of our event is to create public awareness for the Mill, and other historic preservation efforts in Michigan ["Save the Flags" - restoration of Michigan's Civil War flags]and {"Historic Fort Wayne}. We are also working towards providing an authentic style event in Michigan that reenactors can participate in.

Both of you are well respected enactors and your participation and support would be greatly appreciated. We can't improve the quality of reenactments or reenactors unless those with knowledge step forward share that knowledge. Please look the whole and not the part and help us develop this event. As I said your participation and knowledge would be an asset for the event.

Dave Prince
4th Texas Co. E

[Charles Heath]

Dave,

Having followed the decline of reenacting in Michigan over the past few years, it appears folks in that area are definitely into a rebuilding mode. Considering the event production leadership and legacy of the 4th TX Inf. over the years, I moved this thread into the "other events" area with the hope you fellows can accomplish something akin to the harmonic convergence of Athens, MO, about five years ago. It worked for the northern portion of the Trans-Miss folks, and such may work for you. Don't make the event guy regret this. :p

A few other thoughts spring to mind. The first being the date selection, which falls directly before both "After the Battle: The Slaughter Pen" vic Fredericksburg, which is a small effort, and the much larger TAG II event at Rippavilla. The former won't have much effect on attendance, but the latter may draw down the pool of folks from the ONV area. Considering the Wolcott and TAG II are in two different CW hobby market segments, you can read between the lines there. In other words, some of the men you want to attract from the mid-west may have already made plans.

You mention vandalism. Shoot a note to Dennis or Scott sometime and ask them about the frustrations of trying to keep up with the vandalism related repairs (not maintenance) on the Winter 1864 structures in Newfane, NY. The destruction appears to be getting worse with each passing month, and any given Monday I sadly expect a fire report, and the snowballing consequences from that site's insurance underwriter once he sees huts on the back of the musuem grounds. Such is the reason the 2008 rendition of Winter 1864 is likely to be the last big fling.

Wolcott won't be BGR, but neither will the other primarily mainstream events listed in the "other events" section. Good luck.

[Beaner]

Thanks Charles,

Our hope is for the future. We didn't have a choice on the date. Couldn't move because of Michigan conflicts. Any participation is helpful. I agree we in Michigan are in the rebuild mode.

I appreciate the support.
Dave Prince

[Kevin O'Beirne]

While the post above to Dan and me sounds akin to "get on the event committee or be quiet", I'll respond anyway.

I have friends in the 4th Texas Co. E. If the Wolcott organizers wish some advice, I'd be glad to provide some and can even provide some notes on how to organize an event for "campaigners" from a Powerpoint presentation Charles and I prepared and gave at the Columbia Rifles COI in 2006.

That said, there's a lot of events that are basically mainstream that get a reboot (to use the new, en vogue term in Hollywood) with a label slapped on them like, "We're trying to make this more authentic/progressive." When I talk to some of the folks who write or say such things--and I'm NOT talking about Wolcott--and answer their inevitable question(s) of, "How can we improve this event?" the responses I ALWAYS get without fail are like this, "Kev, y'see, we can't do that type of thing..." Mind you, when I'm advising folks who run mainstream events I've never suggested changes like ratcheting up material standards or stuff like that; instead, I merely suggest a few things to either improve the event's administration, marketing, and the activities done by participants during the event. For example, for an event in my region I have suggested to several event committee folks over the years, when asked, that they should consider doing stuff like running dress parade properly, and making the orderly sergeants hand in a morning report by 7:30 a.m., and I'm told that such things are simply impossible--for whatever reason is attached to the response; it's always some reason that's clear as day to the person I'm talking to, but incomprehensible to me.

So, for Wolcott, the post above says there's four camps: presumably US, CS, and US civilian and CS civilian. My question (LITMUS TEST!) is, why are separate civilian camps required? Shouldn't civilians at a "more authentic" event all be portraying the same group? Or is the idea of separate camps to allow the civs to camp near "their men"? I'm not asking for a response on this; rather, I'm using that as a metaphor for how folks often say they're "working to improve" an event when in fact their hands are vitually tied for one reason or another, and little change is actually possible.

I really mean it if you want to discuss improvement alternatives. Drop me an e-mail and we can trade phone numbers.

[Beaner]

bump, bump

[pvt_jb]

Wolcott Mill was the site of the first reenactment I ever attended as a kid. I missed it last year and I look forward to it coming back. It sounds like it will be a positive event for Michigan with higher standards. I know Will has some great ideas as Federal commander. I am wondering about the camps. You stated there will be four military camps. Two veteran and two campaign. Could you explain more?

[Beaner]

After talking to others about having two camps for the military we have decided to leave this up to the overall commanders. The thought here is we don't want in anyway to deter from the overall goal of Wolcott Mill. "To provide a higher quality reenactment for the reenactment community in Michigan. To portray the Civil War and 19th century daily life for the public in an authentic fashion." Our goal is to see all levels of reenactors participate and share the events of the weekend together.


Dave Prince
4th Texas Co. E

[Kevin O'Beirne]

At a "more authentic" event one does not split a small battalion into separate camps based on the participants' preferred camping style. Rather, for increased "authenticity" it's necessary for a battalion to function AS A BATTALION and thus is must REMAIN TOGETHER. This way duties can be assigned and carried out throughout the weekend, instead of guard details melting so the men can "go see the women folk" and "visit the sutlers" and "go to the ball" and stuff like that. Want more authenticity? Keep the battalions together and do "Civil War military-type stuff". If folks don't like whatever camping style has been selected to fit the scenario being portrayed by the entire battalion, then they should find another event to attend.

[Beaner]

Kevin,
We are on the same page. Our biggest concern was by splitting the camps we'd open up the old argument of authentics and mainstreamers. This would defeat the purpose of our goals. We need to work towards developing strong company structures and military officers. The hobby will have an up swing in participation as 150th Anniversary gets nearer. The future of Civil War Reenacting is bright. Preparing for it now by providing quality experiences for the ranks today is the best way to prepare for the future. I would like to converse with you and pick your brain. please call me. You should have my phone number.

Dave Prince
4th Texas Co. E

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Dave,

I'd be glad to talk with you, but don't believe I have your phone number. Please shoot it to me via e-mail (instead of PM)--my address is in my signature line below.

[Beaner]

Kevin,
I sent it to you.
Dave Prince

[Kevin O'Beirne]

It apparently never arrived in my e-mail box. If it was sent to me weeks ago, by chance, it's buried under hundreds or thousands of other e-mails.

Let's take this discussion offline--no need for this type of banter on the forum.

[Beaner]

Here's the latest update for Wolcott Mill. On the preservation front. Several different preservations groups will be giving seminars during the event.
Michigan's "Save the Flags" program will talk about its' efforts in preserving Michigan's Civil War Regimental flags. Historical Fort Wayne Coalition will be discussing their work and how people can get involved in restoring Michigan's 19th Century stone Fort. All of the Michigan troops that fought in the Civil War mustered through this historical treasure. Wolcott Mill will present the history of the Mill their preservation effort. The Mill was built in the 19th century.

More to follow,
Dave Prince
4th Texas Co. E
Event Commitee

[Beaner]

A.C.
I need some research help. We have decided to use the time
line of October through November 1863 for our event. We are looking for information on Bristoe Station and the Mine Run Campaigns.
I have used the National Park info., Harpers Weekly Magazine, "The Sword of Lincoln", "War for the Union", and the book "Damage Them All You Can". I have ordered the book "Retreat From Gettysburg". I'm hoping this will provide the information we are looking for.
The information for the Army of the Potomac has been pretty thin.

What we are looking for:
A) Units both Federal and Confederate that were engaged in the actual fighting.
B) The uniforms they wore, equipage: ie. rifles and accquotrements, etc.
C) Supply conditions for both Armies
D) Political climates both North and South

Please provide whatever help you can,
Dave Prince
4th Texas Co. E
Skirmish at Wolcott Mill Event Committee

[Beaner]

bump, bump, bump

[Kevin O'Beirne]

The "Official Records" are an indispensible resource when doing scenario research and planning.

Consult Andew Humphreys's "From Gettysburg to the Rapidan" which is a history of the Army of the Potomac by Meade's chief of staff. Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Gettysburg-Rapidan-Army-Potomac-April/dp/093552309X/ref=sr_1_7/102-8248141-6702515?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184187649&sr=1-7

Also see, "The Road to Bristoe Station", Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/Road-Bristoe-Station-Campaigning-Regimental/dp/0930919459/ref=sr_1_1/102-8248141-6702515?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1184187833&sr=1-1

The ORs are online and readily available. Just yesterday I posted some stuff about Bristoe to someone on Szabo's forum who seemed unable to find the ORs. The ORs on CD-Rom cost a mere $70 and, as I view it, are indispensible for reenactors.

[Mark Somerville]

Dave

A search using any of the online search engines will turn up a number of Universities and other websites that have the OR's. Here is one that I have on the 49th site.

http://0-cdl.library.cornell.edu.source.unco.edu/moa/browse.monographs/waro.html



Also here is a site that sells the OR's on CD and DVD.

http://www.civilwaramerica.com/

Kevin pointed me in the direction of the site that sells the CD. The original Company has been taken over by a new Company.

I have found the OR's very usefull and I am sure they can give you a lot of the information you are looking for.

Mark Somerville
49th NYVI Co.D Ontario, Canada

[Beaner]

Thanks, This will help a lot.
Dave Prince

[Beaner]

The website for the event is up and running and can be accessed at http://www.fourthtexas.com. Click on the Skirmish at Wolcott Mill Link.

Dave Prince

[Beaner]

Federal guidelines are posted on the event site. A special thanks to Will Eichler and Chris Suppelsa for their efforts creating these. The website is up and running and can be accessed at http://www.fourthtexas.com. Click on the Skirmish at Wolcott Mill link to view the event site. Please take the time to visit the site.

Dave Prince
4th Texas Co. E
Wolcott Mill Event Committee

P.S. Kevin I secured Humphrey's book and "The Road to Bristoe Station" both were a great help! - thanks

[Kevin O'Beirne]

For the Yanks, representing the 17th Maine, why:

1. Are corps badges discouraged? At this time of the war (October 1863) wouldn't they have been fairly common?

2. Are dress hats the second choice for Federals? Is there documentation that the 17th Maine had these? If not, I'd think that the "strongly preferred" headwear would be a forage cap, with very limited number of civilian hats.

Not meaning to criticize here; just asking a couple questions that occured to me in reading the Federal standards.

[Suppelsa]

For the Yanks, representing the 17th Maine, why:

1. Are corps badges discouraged? At this time of the war (October 1863) wouldn't they have been fairly common?

2. Are dress hats the second choice for Federals? Is there documentation that the 17th Maine had these? If not, I'd think that the "strongly preferred" headwear would be a forage cap, with very limited number of civilian hats.

Not meaning to criticize here; just asking a couple questions that occured to me in reading the Federal standards.

Kevin,

1. If you read correctly, we will be issuing corps badges upon arrival at the event.

2. When I sent these guidelines to Mr. Eichler, I didn't have dress hats listed. don't know why he added them, but if you send me an email I'll be glad to put you in touch with him.

Feel free to e-mail me at chrissuppelsa16@yahoo.com with any questions/suggestions.

[Beaner]

Kevin,
Thank you for highlighting the over site on our part. Forage caps are the 1st choice and now are indicated as such. The goal of the event is to bring an event to Michigan that has a higher level of authenticity. We don't want to exclude anyone who wants to participate in an authentically minded event. All events have first timers, which, way back when we all were. if we don't give individuals an opportunity to grow, how can they? As the event grows guidelines will become more focused. In the future each participant will be asked to bring a more specific kit to the event.

On another note the event registration have been very brisk. At this time we have 132 pre-event military registrations. There are also 50 pre-registered civilians.

Kevin we'd love to have you come join us!

Dave Prince
4th Tx. Co. E
"Skirmish at Wolcott Mill"
Event Committee

[Will Eichler]

Kevin,

You point is well taken on the Dress Hats. I'm just sick of seeing too many bad civillian hats. Just my personal bias and you make an excellent point. Since not too many participating read this - the "hat decoration" of such things as corp badges are somthing I'm trying to deal with as part of the scenario. Chris hit it on the head.

Thanks for the thoughts!

Best regards,

Will

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Thanks for the replies. Issuing corps badges is definitely the way to go. They are easy to make and--minor hint--it's always a good idea to issue each with two small straight pins stuck through it, for the lazy types to use in attaching the badge to their cap. Inaccurate--probably. However, many folks are lazy (or arrive late and, like cooking bacon in the dark, are afraid to sew in the dark) and, when simply issued a flannel corps badge, they'll just tuck it in a pocket and find it sometime about the end of the NEXT event. Give 'em some pins to attach 'em with right away, and odds are very good that the vast, vast majority of the corps badges will actually wind up on the caps where they belong. Few things make a battalion look "more like a regiment" than almost every man with the same corps badge and each man (in some scenarios) with a similar canteen strap.

Tim: I'm flattered at the invitation, but have to decline, unfortunately. "After the Battle" down in Fredericksburg VA is literally the weekend after Wolcott and doing back-to-back events is a no-go with a busy job, active toddler son, and vigilant wife. :)