Vicksburg Victuals

[coastaltrash]

The time is now to get your federal registration in for Vicksburg. Co A will be Captain Butler and Co F will be Captain Sorchy. Get them in quick and avoid the increase!

[TeamsterPhil]

But do you get to eat wonderfully (and lovingly) prepared food at work such as you will be eating at Vicksburg?

Phil Campbell

[Charles Heath]

...wonderfully (and lovingly) prepared food....

Rash assumptions abound! :eek:

[Alamo Guard]

How do you lovingly cook a mule?????????????

[JLHurst]

Easy. "I loved this mule" is said while you serve it. :sarcastic

[Charles Heath]

How do you lovingly cook a mule?????????????

Oh, ye of little faith, laugh hearty and long now, for you won't have the last laugh or last bray for that matter.

\../ says, "eat mo' chicken."

Perhaps this event folder needs its very own culinary considerations thread.

[coastaltrash]

Dusty,
I'm not real sure, but me and some of the boys and a couple of Desert Eagle shells might be able to tell you in a few weeks. I bet now that the event is creeping up, and some of the folks are probably starting to get really about half way into their book of choice for the event they are starting to notice that they might have messed up going CS if they thought they would get fed well.

http://docsouth.unc.edu/southlit/twainlife/twain383.jpg

Get your money's worth- ALWAYS, get your fill- not on Pat Price's watch by God!

[Kevin O'Beirne]

I hope that the Federal participants' rations will be high quality, lending themselves to a varied diet of many wonderful tastes, all excellently prepared. Perhaps turkeys, duck, smoked ham, and many other tasty things--most particularly, pie.

Yeah, and a pot of gold is going to land in my front yard in a minute or two. :)

[JLHurst]

I hope you don't mean the pot o' gold Kevin. Those part-a-johns can get messy when droped from altitude. Pat, who is on the feds' rations.
I remember something about hardtack:rolleyes: . . .that can't be it. After all those attending CS get mule meat. A feast by any standard for a person under siege!

[Charles Heath]

Pat, who is on the feds' rations.

One guess. You get one guess.

If you don't clean your plate at Shiloh, then you may see those leftovers at Vicksburg. You remember correctly about the shouts for hardtack; how poultry had become so darn tiresome to the boys in blue on their way northward, and how much they wanted that good old army pork.

So, that means....

[coastaltrash]

Jeremy,
On site commissary is Charles. One agreement I made with Charles was to provide all needed materials, minus some pots and pans. Logistics aren't really a topic for the forum, it's being handled, folks will eat.

[Alamo Guard]

Charles does a dandy job of washing dishes as well, just ask him :tounge_sm .

[JLHurst]

Logistics aren't really a topic for the forum.


My appologies, and no harm ment. As I agree they aren't, was all in good fun. :o

[coastaltrash]

Babyface,
I was kidding. You know who is handling rations.

[Charles Heath]

Charles does a dandy job of washing dishes as well, just ask him.

Obi Wan Natchez Springwater,

As a mere bayou tavern back room Padawan, I was merely drying the dishes with Steve the Quiet Man, Joe the Carthagenian, assorted helpers, gapers, and onlookers. Many of those dishes and glasses were well lubricated courtesy of the washwater (there was no rinse cycle), and will not require another good greasing for at least 3,000 meals or miles, whichever comes first.

Maybe it is high time to post a little Vicksburg campaign vittles research on this thread beyond, "boss, this bacon sho' am heavy totin' it up this heah bluff."

[Spinster]

Bless you Charles, you've worried about that cold grey dishwater in multiple places. :D

Just as you often doctor up drinking water with various concoctions designed to give a man extra staying capacity, I tend to doctor up washing water in ways to kill what ails it, and anything washed in it.

Clorox is my friend.:p

Just in case you wondered why your hands began to peel in a day or so......

[Gary of CA]

Wasn't a camel eaten at Vicksburg?

[Charles Heath]

Wasn't a camel eaten at Vicksburg?

"Douglas the Camel" aka "Old Douglas the Camel" as with the 43rd Mississippi Infantry at Iuka, Corinth, and Vicksburg. He was killed in the line of duty, and a couple of years ago there was considerable speculation as to setting a stone in the Vicksburg City Cemetery where some of his human comrades are buried. Allegedly, Doulgas provided meat for rations after he was killed. The John C Pemberton Camp # 1354, SCV, had a few contemporary references to this beast of burden prior to their October 2005 memorial service.

I'm not certain if camels go to Fiddler's Green or not, but if they do Old Douglas is spitting in a corner somewhere.

[coastaltrash]

Gary,
I'm starting to think anything that could be eaten in Vicksburg WAS eaten there. Dogs, cats, kittens, mule, camel etc show up in some CS references a lot.

[Coatsy]

Here is a little tidbit of what the Johnnies were eating during the Siege of Vicksburg. Mmmm Mmmm, Pea Bread!

“There was a good supply of this pea in the commissariat at Vicksburg, and the idea grew out of the fertile brain of some official, that, if reduced to the form of meal, it would make an admirable substitute for bread. Sagacious and prolific genius! Whether general or commissary-orginator of this glorious conception! This altogether novel species of the hardest of “hard tack!” perhaps he never swallowed a particle of it. If he did the truth and force of these comments will be appreciated.

The process of getting the pea into the form of bread was the same as that to which corn is subjected: the meal was ground at a large mill in the city, and sent to the cooks in camp to be prepared. It was accordingly mixed with cold water and put through the form of baking; but the nature of it was such, that it never got done, and the longer it was cooked, the harder it became on the outside, which was natural, but, at the same time, it grew relatively softer on the inside, and, upon breaking it, you were sure to find raw pea-meal in the centre. The cooks protested that it had been on the fire two good hours, but it was all to no purpose; yet, on the outside it was hard, that one might have knocked down a full-grown steer with a chunk of it. The experiment soon satisfied all parties, and after giving us this bread for three days, it was abandoned. But it had already made a number of us sick. Peas were afterwards issued, boiled in camp, and still constituted about half of our subsistence.” ~from Ephraim Anderson of the 2nd Missouri (CS)

I hope Charles won’t read this. But there is hope my fine fellows here is an account of trading between the picket lines.

“One night…I went to the front and entered our works, which consisted of a trench four or five feet deep, and wide enough for four or five men to walk abreast in it. This trench ran in a zig-zag way, like an old fashioned rail fence. I followed till I reached the front, where our pickets were stationed, about twenty yards from the Confederate lines. Here I had the pleasure of hearing the following conversation:

Reb.- “Hello Yank!”
Yank.- “What do you want?”
Reb.- “Have you plenty of bread on your side?”
Yank.- “Yes; have you plenty of tobacco?”
Reb.- “Will you give me some bread for tobacco?”
Yank.- “Yes, I will-will meet you half way if you are willing.”
Reb.- “Yes I will.”

They met midway between the lines like brothers, made the exchange, and returned to their respective stations. But on the ensuing day, it would have been dangerous for either of them to show his head above the ramparts, and if he did, he would be the target of half a score rifles.” ~ Thomes Barton 4th West Virgina

So it looks like not all will be lost if rat steaks and pea bread be the order of the day. Just make sure the Ossifers aren’t looking. I got both of these exerts from the Time Life "Voices of the Civil War: Vicksburg" edition.

[Dale Beasley]

I do know what the skerters and the nats will be eating.

[Charles Heath]

Herb, I didn't read a thing. Not a single thing.

Keeping pea bread is a challenge.

[Steamboat Willie]

The New York Herald (New York, NY ) Sunday August 09, 1863 col A

The Last Days of Vicksburg -- Starvation Rations
[From the Columbus (Ga.) Enquirer]

" The following is the bill of fare for three days for a brigade of 2, 914 men, viz; --4,371 lbs mule meat, 820 lbs of rice, 2,732 lbs peas, 12 lbs candles, 49 lbs soap, 393 lbs salt, 269 lbs tobacco. This is an allowance of only half a pound of mule meat , one and half ounces of rice, and less than a pound of peas for each man per day. Heroic and devoted indeed were the men who, on such fare, were willing to continue the contest as long as they had the strength to lift their firearms. "

[Shotgun Messiah]

Herb, I didn't read a thing. Not a single thing.

Keeping pea bread is a challenge.

Since when were you worrying about " Me ole Pea bread wont keep"
if'n it aint tainted it shall not be presented... its the gamey Mule I have my heart set upon

[Charles Heath]

A little mold is one thing, but after three days that pea bread grows fur like a Chia pet grows greenery. So if the Landrumatic Mechanical Pea Bread Baking Company & Corn Research Institute, LLC, bakes it on Wednesday, it will have Thursday, and Friday to cure, with a heck of a presentation on Saturday. I guess if we lived through the 1970s with green shag carpet on a Chevy van dashboard, anything is possible.

[coastaltrash]

From what I gather the Pea bread idea was pretty quickly abandoned. Much like the rat, it's been blown into an exaggerated story. A lot of odd things do appear in the ORs and several really well known HISTORY BOOKS. I say that because one of the most "beloved" authors about Vicksburg doesn't document his sources...anyway.

Kittens, dogs, crawfish and mutton all show up, but frankly mule meat was brought into common practice fairly early on. When Vicksburg surrendered they had around 38,000 lbs of salt pork on hand, which was roughly one pound per man woman and child in the town (remember Grant would not allow citizens out of town, in hopes of running the food supply out faster)

[Alamo Guard]

Patrick,
Alot of that food was saved for the expected breakout. Hmmmmm, sounds like Stalingrad in a sense?

[Charles Heath]

Dusty, it may be even more simple than that. With the 20/20 hindsight of history, we know when the siege ended, and can point and mock at how much food they had on hand on that date; however, the participants in the real events didn't have a precise date as to when they'd breakout or give up the cause. In any case, Pat Price is going to have his work cut out for him over on the CS side of the works.

Meanwhile, I'm looking through the 1863 Vicksburg City Directory and can't seem to find the Dzerhezinsky Carriage Works.

[coastaltrash]

Dusty,
Other than Johnston's constant BS, I honestly don't see any reference to a breakout, however there was about 32,000 men assembled to attempt a relief of the garrison that never happened. Grant did not approach Vicksburg wanting to lay Siege and while Pemberton may have had supplies for a shirt campaign, he certainly did not have enough food supply on hand to last more than a month locked up.

[Coatsy]

Thanks for stealing my thunder Landrum......And if you notice sir in the same passage I posted the author noted that the pea bread idea was quickly discarded for an issue of the peas in pea form.

Man oh man......No pie for you Patty Landrum!

[Jim of The SRR]

Herb,

Could we not make pie from peas? As for me, I am guessing hardtack will be the fare of choice (at least better than moldy, green, pea bread).

Jim Butler

[Alamo Guard]

I found the following in the book "The Confederate Reader" by Richard B. Harwell, Barnes and Noble press 1992.
It gives an account of what was served at the local Vicksburg Hotel during the seige, we all know it was a rude and melancholy burlesque:

Hotel De Vicksburg

Bill of fare for July,1863


Soup - Mule Tail

Boiled- Mule bacon with pike greens
-Mule ham canvassed

Roast- Mule Sirloin
- Mule Rump stuffed with rice

Vegtables

Peas and rice.

ENTREES

Mule head stuffed a-la-mode
Mule beef jerked a-la- Mexicanna
Mule Ears fricassed a-la-gotch
Mule sides stwed, new style, hair on
Mule spare ribs plain
Mule liver, hashed

SIDE DISHES

Mule Salad
Mule hoof soused
Mule brains a-la-omelette
Mule Kidney stuffed with peas
Mule tripe fired in pea meal batter
Mule tounge cold a-la-Bray

JELLIES

Mule foot

PASTRY

Pea meal pudding, blackberry sauce
Cotton-wood berry pies
China berry tart

DES(s)ERT

White-oak acorns
Beech Nuts
Blackberry leaf tea
Genuine Confederate Coffee

LIQUORS

Mississippi Water, vintage 1498, superior $3.00
Limestone water, late importation, very fine $2.75
Spring water, Vicksburg brand $1.50

Meals at all hours. Gentlemen to wait upon themselves. Any inatttention on the part of servants will be promtly reported at the office.

JEFF. DAVIS & CO., Proprietors

Card. _ The proprietors of the justly celebrated Hotel are now prepared to accomodate all who may favor them with a call. Parties arriving by the river, or Grant's inland route, with find Grape, Canister, & Co's carriages at the landing, or any depot on the line of entrenchments. Buck, Ball & Co., take charge of all baggage. No effort will be spared to make the visit of all as interesting as possible.

[Dale Beasley]

From what I gather the Pea bread idea was pretty quickly abandoned. Much like the rat, it's been blown into an exaggerated story. A lot of odd things do appear in the ORs and several really well known HISTORY BOOKS. I say that because one of the most "beloved" authors about Vicksburg doesn't document his sources...anyway.

Kittens, dogs, crawfish and mutton all show up, but frankly mule meat was brought into common practice fairly early on. When Vicksburg surrendered they had around 38,000 lbs of salt pork on hand, which was roughly one pound per man woman and child in the town (remember Grant would not allow citizens out of town, in hopes of running the food supply out faster)

Pat,
Since the "Pea-Bread and Mule Thing" is over-rated...we could have a crawfish boil..;)

[Brigand]

Mule can be quite tasty when marinated for several weeks in essence of coffee...or the other way around. Can't remember for sure as it also dulls the senses.

Robert Hooker

[Charles Heath]

Robert,

I see you are in the Williamsburg area. If you planning to head to the Vicksburg NPS LH, check with the fellows from Richmond who are also heading that way, as you may be able to carpool. Quite a bit of interest in this event from some far corners of the hobby.

[coastaltrash]

Dale,
I never said mule meat was over rated, nor pea bread. Crawfish was a forage item from the area and came much later in the siege.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Grant's memoir, I believe in the first page or two in the chapter titled, "The Siege of Vicksburg", has some interesting info on Federal rations during the siege.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Other than Johnston's constant BS, I honestly don't see any reference to a breakout,


It's probably worth remembering that Pemberton was dead set on staying in Vicksburg and defending it. He was very reluctant to do as Johnston at first suggested and then (I believe) ordered: to abandon Vicksburg and march northeast to link up with Johnston. I believe that Pemberton always intended to defend the city, but never really had much chance to stock in food for a siege.

There was a belief by many that Vicksburg was impregnable, which was buttressed by the fact that, despite Federal efforts to get at the city starting in mid-1862, until late April 1863 no Yank had yet successfully set foot on dry ground on the east bank of the river in the vicinity of Vicksburg. And Grant didn't leave a lot to chance: he masterfully staged a lot of diversions to keep Pemberton and his subordinates guessing about Yank intensions; even after Grant had most of his army at Carthage, well below Vicksburg with a plan to cross at Grand Gulf, he was still staging elaborate diversions at Milliken's Bend and Chickasaw Bayou with Sherman's corps. Also, don't forget that the main Yank diversion during this time was Grierson's Raid, which had Pemberton's rapt attention, and even Johnston's, and was doing a good job at helping temporarily cut CS communications in central Mississippi. Thus, Grant was across the river in force and had already defeated Bowen and was on his way to Raymond before Pemberton even knew Grant was across the river in strength. Then he sort-of heeded Johnston's advice to come out and fight, but still left 10,000 men in Vicksburg. Within three weeks, Pemberton's temporarily demoralized army was penned up tight in Vicksburg and Grant was at the front door. I doubt the Confederates had much time during that three weeks to lay in many supplies.

[Brigand]

Charles,

Thanks pard. I'm not sure if I can make Vicksburg or not,(still recovering from the marinated mule) but if I can I'll look them up.

Robert Hooker

"A hero is no braver than an ordinary man, he's just brave 5 minutes longer"

[coastaltrash]

Kevin,
Pemberton was sent to and given the command of the Department mainly to protect the supply line that ran through Vicksburg. The products that came through there supplied war materials not only to the army, but made it possible to get the much needed meat source to the people of the Confederacy as a whole. Grant never intended to lay siege to Vicksburg, in fact it was a last ditch effort. He assaulted on the 19th and made a general assault on the 22nd before he finally got a clue.

Johnston did not step foot in the area until right before the fall of Jackson on May 15, after Grant crossed at Bruinsburg Landing. He's sending out orders of combine combine combine, when he really has nothing to combine with Pemberton, at least not until his Army of Relief (32,000 eventually) is formed but never does anything to even aid Vicksburg. The last message Johnston sent to Pemberton was telling him to make a break for it and meet up with him. That's real damn intelligent right there, considering that was on July 3.

Truth be told, the smartest thing Pemberton could have done was at every cost attempt to save that line, he had stored food in the city, but not enough for a Siege that on the onslaught of the campaign neither commander counted on having. Pemberton actually started stocking the garrison when he arrived in late 62, and had to be told to release some of the supplies at one point. I also believe, like many of the original soldiers North and South, that Pemberton honestly thought Johnston was going to come to his aid, since that's what he was there to do. Johnston's inability to act is probably what got him shuffled around to so many places. I mean when you get replaced by Hood thats kind of like getting replaced by a one armed, one legged retarded monkey at your own job.

[Shotgun Messiah]

Dale,
I never said mule meat was over rated, nor pea bread. The item was a forage item from the area and came much later in the siege.

Okay just a question then... what stage of the seige are we representing June 8th thru 10th perhaps, a very rugged and brutal time during the seige.... if'n you ask me...persistant shelling and constant sniping and seige works being thrust forth with counter works being chucked up at the same time...
Food be damned I am here to kill of bluebellies....

[Charles Heath]

Speaking of vittles, this is a right nice, if brief, article about Grant's lessons learned from Mexico under Scott as applied to Vicksburg:

http://www.almc.army.mil/ALOG/issues/JanFeb03/MS732.htm

Even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then.

[Coatsy]

Jim, if we can find someone mad enough to make the PeaBread Pie then I'll share the honors of testing said pie with you.

All of the food talk, Jonhston having a case of the slows, and Grant's Bruckheimerian explosions in the Confederate works make for a great spark to do more reading. Thanks all.