Battle of Mill Springs - September 28-30, 2007

[Yankeeboy]

My Gents
Just wondering has anyone here heard of or, know of a good Campaigning unit going to Mills Spring Ky in September? I know I'll be there.

[Yankeeboy]

Ok boys heres a good chance to join in at Mills Springs ,(see the attachment) . This is a good and Veteran Company. We belong to the WB and will be doing the Minn. boys at Mills Springs, any questions please contact myself or our good Capt.

[JEBminnesota]

Ok boys heres a good chance to join in at Mills Springs ,(see the attachment) . This is a good and Veteran Company. We belong to the WB and will be doing the Minn. boys at Mills Springs, any questions please contact myself or our good Capt.

Mill Springs will be a mainstream event but it has the potential to be a decent event. Just like Perryville it will be on the actual battlefield and money earn will go towards the site. The site is just west of Somerset KY and near the town of Nancy. Although the 1st Federal division has not announce the dates for Mill Springs the dates September 28th - 30th 2007.

Just a brief description of the battle
The battle of Mill Springs happen on January 19th 1862, and it took place at Logan’s cross roads. The confederates (6,000) attack General Thomas 1st division (4,000) on the morning of the 19th. General Crittenden attempts a surprise Thomas but due to weather and weapons this slows the attack. Thomas Division stops the rebel assault and push the rebels back to the Cumberland (Beach Grove) were the confederates had their winter quarters.
The battle actually happens for about 1 hour but with Thomas pursuing the confederates it took most of the day.

Here were the units that were involved in the battle.
2nd Brigade - Colonel Mahlon D. Manson
10th Indiana Infantry Regiment --- Lieutenant Colonel William Kise
4th Kentucky Infantry Regiment --- Colonel Speed Smith Fry (W)
Company C, 14th Ohio Infantry --- Captain J. W. Brown

3rd Brigade - Colonel Robert L. McCook (W)
2nd Minnesota Infantry Regiment* --- Colonel Horatio Van Cleve (* minus Company A)
9th Ohio Infantry Regiment --- Major Gustave Kammerling

12th Brigade - Colonel Samuel Powhatan Carter
12th Kentucky Infantry Regiment --- Colonel William A. Hoskins
1st Tennessee Infantry Regiment --- Colonel Robert K. Byrd
2nd Tennessee Infantry Regiment --- Colonel J. P. T. Carter
Companies A,B,C, & H, 1st Kentucky Cavalry --- Colonel Frank Wolford

Battery B, 1st Ohio Artillery --- Captain William E. Standart
Battery C, 1st Ohio Artillery --- Captain Dennis Kenny, Jr.
9th Ohio Battery --- Captain Henry Shepard Wetmore

Arrived after the battle, engaged in the pursuit to Beech Grove:
1st Brigade@ - Brigadier General Albin Schoepf
17th Ohio Infantry Regiment --- Colonel John M. Connell
31st Ohio Infantry Regiment --- Colonel Moses B. Walker
38th Ohio Infantry Regiment --- Colonel Edwin D. Bradley
2nd Brigade@
10th Kentucky Infantry Regiment --- Colonel John M. Harlan
14th Ohio Infantry Regiment --- Colonel James B. Steedman

Both armies were encamped. The confederates were located on the north side of the Cumberland what is known as Beach Grove and the Union was encamped at Logan’s Cross Roads. So bring the Sibly's or wedge tents.

The Western Brigade will be portraying the 2nd Minnesota with approval by division. We have done and our still researching information about the regiment at Mill Springs.

This is a NSA event so I am sure that Dom Dal Bello will have a battalion there so if you our looking for a progressive unit he is the one to talk other wise you are more than welcome to join the western brigade.

[TheFenian]

Was not Mill Springs in 1862, not 1865?

Bill Eiff

[HighPrvt]

Was not Mill Springs in 1862, not 1865?

Bill Eiff

Yep, must have been a typo!

[Jim of The SRR]

SCAR will have a company at the event. We will likely be with the AOP battalion there as Federal. Please feel free to email me for mor einfo at unionguy1@comcast.net

Regards,
Jim Butler
SRR www.geocities.com/saltriverrilfes
SCAR www.geocities.com/scar_civilwar

[Tom Ezell]

Was not Mill Springs in 1862, not 1865?


January 19, 1862... Pap Thomas makes the first crack in the Confederate defenses of Tennessee, which will pert near collapse inside the following month. It was cold and rainy.

By moving the event to the last week of September and Indian summer, though, they're hoping that the sun will shine a lot brighter on the old Kentucky home, at least on the event weekend ;-)

[JEBminnesota]

MY fault must have been typing too faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaast again. The battle did happen on January 19th 1862

[Russell Huffman]

Ive never looked so forward to dawn my union uniform to finally fight as one of "wolfords wild riders of the 1st ky cav."as a majority of my young life ive researched this unit and based my union impression off this hard fighting unit.cant wait........

Russell Huffman

[Mike Ventura]

The North South Alliance (NSA) will stage their annual "National Event" at the Battle of Mill Springs historic site near Nancy, KY September 28-30, 2007.

The Battle of Mill Springs (also known as Fishing Creek) was a medium sized, but critical battle in the outcome of the war. It was the first Confederate defeat along the Kentucky-Tennessee line that the CS western army had established. This defeat led to the abandonment of Kentucky and Tennessee by the rebels early on in the war. At the outbreak of the war Abraham Lincoln stated, "I hope that God is on our side, but we MUST have Kentucky!" The Federal victory at Mill Springs kept Kentucky in the Union, although some of Kentucky's sons did fight for the Confederacy. Mill Springs was also the first Union victory after their defeat at Bull Run the previous summer, and thus received much press at the time.

There are some unique historical aspects to this event.

Both the First Federal Division and the Army of Tennessee will be reformed into historically accurate sized regiments for this reenactment. As this was an early war battle (January 19, 1862), these regiments were at or near full strength. The Confederate 15th Mississippi had nearly 900 men reporting for duty and the 20th Tennessee had 505 effectives out of 916 on roll.

Saturday's battle will be fought on the historic ground and will highlight the action on the east side of Mill Springs Road that bisected the battlefield and, in essence, turned it into two separate fights, one on either side of the road (the present paved county road is the same road). The Confederate 15th Mississippi and 20th Tennessee will clash over rugged terrain with the 10th Indiana, 4th Kentucky (US), 2nd Minnesota and 1st Kentucky Cavalry (US) (fighting dismounted).

Sunday's battle will feature the action west of the Mill Springs Road as the 19th and 25th Tennessee met the 9th Ohio.

There will be a Saturday morning cavalry battle depicting the Battle of Dutton's Hill - a 1863 cav on cav skirmish as the Federal cavalry intercepted a CS cavalry raid to steal horses and cattle.

A memorial service at one of three Confederate mass graves containing the bodies of the 15th Mississippi and 20th Tennessee will be held by some of the reenactors portraying those troops.

A Sunday morning tactical will be fought on the west side of Mill Springs Road, on the historic ground of the west side fighting.

A Saturday night Ghost Walk and artillery demonstration will also be featured.

In an effort to recreate the period in an historically accurate manner, both the Federal and CS camps will be "winter quarters" camps. There are contemporaneous accounts of the great amount of tents, trunks, all kinds of house hold furnishings, horses, mules, artillery and all manner of equipment left behind by the retreating Confederates. However, everything MUST be historically accurate.

The battles will be fought in real time, and the fighting will be fierce.

Preservation effort: Last year the Mill Springs Battlefield Association received a $2 MILLION grant to, among other things, buy the land on the west side of the Mill Springs Road. This money was an 80/20 grant meaning that Mill Springs has to raise $400,000. ALL proceeds from the reenactment will go towards the $400,000 goal.

As an NSA event, this reenactment will feature several elements familiar to NSA members and participants over the past few years. Mounted artillery, resupply by wagon and teams, accurate battle scenarios, historically-correct flags, active camp provosts and interaction with historically accurate civilians.

Mike Moore will command all Confederate troops and Mark Dolive will be the Federal commander. Areas have been procured for campaign style camping, although for historical accuracy, it is hoped that all participants will share in the "winter camp" scenario.

Further information and registration info, go to the event web site at

millsprings.net and click on "Upcoming Events" and then "National Renactment."

Civil War Historian magazine is a sponsor of the Battle of Mill Springs and will be publishing an article on the battle and a follow up article on the reenactment. More on this later.

[slhughes]

The staff of Civil War Historian is pleased to announce that the magazine has become a major co-sponsor of the upcoming Battle of Mill Springs reenactment. “Civil War Historian” is joining the team being assembled by the Mill Springs Battlefield Association to put on this major event, which is expected to be the largest Civil War reenactment in 2007 west of the Appalachians, and possibly nationwide. “Civil War Historian” will dedicate the talents of its staff to publishing the event program, which is expected to be valuable not just as a souvenir of the reenactment, but also as an attractive historical record of the dramatic events that took place in Pulaski County, Kentucky early in 1862. The folks at Civil War Historian join with the Mill Springs Battlefield Association in sending an invitation to all Civil War enthusiasts to join us on this beautiful and well-preserved battlefield for what promises to be a colorful, moving, and thoroughly enjoyable weekend of re-created Civil War action.

Nicky Hughes
Editor
Civil War Historian Magazine

[DannyJoe]

Mr. Hughes,
I am a subscriber to the "Civil War Historian". It is an outstanding publication and your co-sponsorship of the Mill Springs event is a significant endorsement for the preservation of a most beautiful battlefield. Printing and publishing is expensive and the "Civil War Historian's" contribution to the event program should be greatly appreciated by anyone participating the event or those interested in battlefield preservation. Although, I am not a member of the NSA, I have attended four of their events. They have always been very rewarding experiences. Perryville 2006 was special for me because I was able to walk the ground where the 1st, 10th, and 21st Wisconsin fought. Some of the men of these regiments were recruited from the local area where I live. Mill Springs is a pristine battlefield. I am looking forward to walking the ground where one of my Civil War ancestors, Charles Orth, was a member of the 2nd Minnesota. The 2nd Minnesota was decisively engaged with the 15th Mississippi and captured their colors. Another aspect that I enjoyed about Perryville is that I met several Kentucky lads who had ancestors that fought at Perryville. It was most interesting to listen to these proud lads talk about their ancestors while we were standing on the ground where they fought so long ago. I am looking forward to the same experience at Mill Springs.
Thanks again for everything that you do to keep the history of the Civil War alive and your contribution to the preservation of its battlefields.
Regards,

[mmurphy]

Three and a half months away and I am already making preparations to go! This will be my first "large scale" event, and it is one that I am looking forward to very much. I hope to see some old friends there, and make some new ones.


Michael T. Murphy
Pvt. Co. A 33d VA.

[JEBminnesota]

Should be a good one

[Jim Moffet]

Mill Springs should be a great event, and a noble effort to support the preservation of an important battlefield. Those of you Federals who hope to serve with the Western Brigade representing the Second Minnesota should plan to wear the correct uniform - the boys were still wearing dark blue trousers in January of '62. Though the regiment had been issued frocks and 1858 hats, we have letters that show that most of the dress uniform was boxed up and put into storage before Thomas' command left Somerset for the march to Logan's Crossroads where they went into camp. Sibley tents were used there, with stoves, not that we should need them in September! Each company had 5 sibleys: John Sherborne of Co. D wrote home saying that that meant that there were only 18 men per tent!

Jim Moffet
Minnesota First

[FlatLandFed]

Gents,
The Colonel apparently still is swamped with real world work, so does anyone associated with the Army of the Pacific have an update on this august body's involvement at Mill Springs? Traditionally we begin sending in registrations about this time.
Obliged,
Paul Hadley
Lincoln, Neb Territory

[Mike Ventura]

Not to speak for Dom, Steve Dunfee or any of the AoP command structure, but the AoP's participation at Mill Springs was confirmed at the NSA annual meeting in St. Louis in April. The AoP will portray the 10th Indiana, which held the Federal left along the fence line at the top of the ravine. This was the scene of some of the most intense action at Mill Springs.

[Craig L Barry]

The Watchdog Civil War Quarterly will have the "impression improvement" tent set up as well w/ books and so on.

[Hank Trent]

How are the carpe eventum folks handling the problem of September vs. January, as far as clothing? I know there's a physical limit to what you can do if it's 75 degrees out, but still... Are you pretending it really is September, and dressing and packing as if it's the warm part of autumn? Or are you going to try to give the illusion of an unseasonably warm day in January, packing greatcoats and scarves and wearing them if there's the least chance of it being cool enough morning and evening?

As a civilian, I'm trying to decide whether to wear my fur hat with a scarf loose over my shoulders and look like an idiot in September, or wear a lightweight summer hat and coat and look like an idiot in January.

Hank Trent
yes, I know the real answer: if I were going to a better event I wouldn't need to ask :)
hanktrent@voyager.net

[JEBminnesota]

How are the carpe eventum folks handling the problem of September vs. January, as far as clothing? I know there's a physical limit to what you can do if it's 75 degrees out, but still... Are you pretending it really is September, and dressing and packing as if it's the warm part of autumn? Or are you going to try to give the illusion of an unseasonably warm day in January, packing greatcoats and scarves and wearing them if there's the least chance of it being cool enough morning and evening?

As a civilian, I'm trying to decide whether to wear my fur hat with a scarf loose over my shoulders and look like an idiot in September, or wear a lightweight summer hat and coat and look like an idiot in January.

Hank Trent
yes, I know the real answer: if I were going to a better event I wouldn't need to ask :)
hanktrent@voyager.net

Good question. If Mother Nature is historical accurate it will also rain for about 15 days before and on the weekend of the event.

[TeamsterPhil]

We guarantee that will happen if Grumpy Dave will cross the High Scaries to attend this one.

Phil Campbell

[Spinster]

How are the carpe eventum folks handling the problem of September vs. January, as far as clothing?

Hi Hank,

We're still nailing the logistics for the 'carpe eventum' folks---Mrs. Simpson went ahead with our site meeting yesterday, and I attended solely by cell phone, being more necessary here with my Father right now.

I anticipate having a sit down meeting in a couple of weeks with the core family group, then we can start loading the Winston Free-State list serve with just these sorts of questions and answers.

[Hank Trent]

Thanks, Terre. Didn't know if the military carpe eventum (campaigner adjunct?) folks were already working out an overall answer to the Sept.-Jan. problem but it looks like everybody's on their own right now, so I'll just wait to hear from the civilians.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[hernicus]

www.armyofthepacific.com

Army of the Pacific is the First Brigade in the First Federal Division which is the Command for this event.

Mark Hernbroth
AIG
First Federal Division
AOP Member

[hernicus]

PAUL (and all other curious AOP'ers):

The AOP WILL BE FIELDING A BATTALION FOR MILL SPRINGS 2007!!!!

The AOP is working on setting up registration as we speak.

There should be information on the website regarding REGISTRATIOn by June 20th, 2007.

Life has been hectic for all, but look for info soon!

www.armyofthepacific.com

Regards!

Mark Hernbroth
AOP
:D

"A Dead Whale!"





Gents,
The Colonel apparently still is swamped with real world work, so does anyone associated with the Army of the Pacific have an update on this august body's involvement at Mill Springs? Traditionally we begin sending in registrations about this time.
Obliged,
Paul Hadley
Lincoln, Neb Territory

[hernicus]

Mike:

No Regimental Assignments Have Been Made As Of This Date. Please Update Your Reply To Recognize This Fact.

We Don't Want To Get Any Of The Boys' Dander Up If Assignments Differ From What You Posted.

Thanks, Buddy!

Mark Hernbroth
ffd/aOP

[1FDAAG]

Hello all,

Federal assignments for Mill Springs will be posted shortly on both the First Federal Division site (www.firstfederaldivision.com) and registration forms for units and individuals can be found on www.millsprings.net.

An excellent account of The Army of the Cumberland and its accounts of Mill Springs can be found here http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/etext03/7cmbr10.txt (Chapter 2). I remain, YOS,

[1FDAAG]

Greetings,

The orders for Mill Springs are now posted with the safety and authenticity guidelines attachements. the orders can be found on the First Federal Division website (www.firstfederaldivision.com). Still waiting for the schedule and scenarios to be finalized.

Registration for the event is ongoing and is $15.00. For registration forms, please go to www.millsprings.net. Regards,

[1FDAAG]

Greetings,

The orders for the First Federal Division at Mill Springs "07 have been posted on the 1FD web site @ www.firstfederldivision.com.

The schedule and scenaios ill be posted soon. Keep those registraions coming. I remain,

YOS,

[houghtam]

I'm sure everyone is busy getting ready for upcoming events, but has anyone heard from the AoP? My brother and I talked to Dom last year about falling in with them at Perryville, and were interested in doing same again for Mill Springs, but have not heard back from anyone about this. Are there any other contacts to reach? We are NOT getting stuck with the Cumberland Guard again :tounge_sm

Andrew M. Houghtaling

[1FDAAG]

Howdy,

Yes, the AOP is going to attend and registration information should be coming from Dom and his staff soon. Please contact me at usfb_dsk@yahoo.com if I can be of additional assistance. I am the 1st Federal Division AAG and can answer most if not all of your questions. Cheers,

[1FDAAG]

Folks,

Here is a recent message from BG Mark Dolive regarding a change in the schedule for Saturday at Mill Springs. He has spoken with Gen. Moore and they have agreed upon this course. This wil create more realism and action especially in the unit cohesion and resuply areas.

Don

Gentlemen,
After several comments by senior staff, various battalion and brigade commanders, and discussions with our partners in the AoT General Moore and I are adjusting the schedule.

The Sunday morning "tactical"(I am hesitant to use that word) is now being merged with the Saturday morning cavalry action. There will be no Sunday morning action, however there will be "General's Time".

The Saturday morning action will involve ALL units of both armies and is intended to last the morning into the early afternoon. Units will be fed into this battle and various distances marched though these will not be overly long distances (not Red River miles).

Also, we are still awaiting the scenario outlines that we will enlarge upon for the Sat. and Sun. battles. Usually by now we have those, and while my counterpart and I have some idea of the original battles through the OR we are awaiting more information from the Park staff to ensure we cover the highlights.

More details will be forthcoming.

My regards,
Mark Dolive
1FD

[Chad Greene]

Gentlemen,
In response to Mr. Kessler's post.

"Yes, the AOP is going to attend and registration information should be coming from Dom and his staff soon. Please contact me at usfb_dsk@yahoo.com if I can be of additional assistance. I am the 1st Federal Division AAG and can answer most if not all of your questions. "

The AOP website is up and running with the registration information for the Army of the Pacific. You may go to the website for registration.

This is going to be a great event and the AOP will as usual field a battalion. If you are looking for an extremely authentic expereience we invite you to join us. We attempt to recreate the life of a typical Civil War soldier to the best of our ability.
If you have any questions you can direct them to Col. Dom DalBello, Lt. Col Steve Dunfee or myself. You may private message me or email me directly.

If you have not yet registered please do so as soon as possible. The AOP guarantees you will have a bully of a time.
Your Pard,
Chad Greene

[hernicus]

My Gents
Just wondering has anyone here heard of or, know of a good Campaigning unit going to Mills Spring Ky in September? I know I'll be there.
A good campaign battalion is the Army of the Pacific. You must pre-register for the event no matter who who join up with. Check out www.armyofthepacific.com.

[hernicus]

I'm sure everyone is busy getting ready for upcoming events, but has anyone heard from the AoP? My brother and I talked to Dom last year about falling in with them at Perryville, and were interested in doing same again for Mill Springs, but have not heard back from anyone about this. Are there any other contacts to reach? We are NOT getting stuck with the Cumberland Guard again :tounge_sm

Andrew M. Houghtaling
Andrew:

Have you and your brother registered yet? The AOP Registration is up and running as we speak. See you there!

[Amtmann]

Anyone who is a proficient bones player going?

[1FDAAG]

Mill Springs registration has been good and we look forward to having a great event. Due to a communications snafu, General Dolive (Federal Commander) has requested that I inform any AOP members (SCAR excluded) to meet at the main Federal Camp early Friday to receive information regarding the march to the remote camp. If you are attending with the SCAR group, contact Jim Butler for information.

I remain, Sirs,

[Jim of The SRR]

I spoke with Chad Greene today and he told me that he had not received any communication from Dom dal Bello, and thus the AOP would not be marching to a remote site. Chad said he was not even aware of a remote site until now. Nothing regarding a march to a remote site was EVER communicated to the AOP. We agreed to maintain a static camp to simulate the Federal encampment at Logan's Crossroads. SCAR has already arranged their camp, friday meeting location and ration drop point. Additionally, people will be coming in at various time throughout friday. They won't find the remote camp (as has happened several times before).

Regards,
Jim Butler
SCAR

[yankeecav]

Has anyone received information from the AoP regarding company assignments, Officers, NCOs?

Just looking to confirm that all of our mess members are registered and that we are assigned together.

[BigRonFH]

My unit is sending a detatchment to Mills Springs and another to Pawnee City, NE. I'm on the list for Pawnee City, however. Beginner's mistake. Dang!

Ron Hopkins
Co. D, 13th US Inf
Sioux Falls, SD
Unity Lodge #130 AF&AM

[Professor Sable]

The Mocking Bird Theatre will be hosting Minstrel shows by the Allendale Melodians at Mill Springs this year. Find out about show times and pick up tickets at the Theatre starting Thursday afternoon. There will be at least one show Friday night and at least two shows Saturday night. If you missed the show at Perryville last year get your tickets early as the theatre will only hold about 150 people at a time. If you saw the show last year there will be some new surprisses!

William Gay a.k.a. Professor Sable

[Sherry Key]

Mr. Bailey,

My husband, Tom Key, aka Cornbread of RR2 fame, is planning to be at Mill Springs and is, in my opinion, proficient in playing the bones. He is with the Palmetto Battalion from SC but I am not sure who he will be falling in with. Just shout out for Cornbread, most know of him.

Sherry Key, aka Mrs. Cornbread.

[prestontoprail]

Rick, sent you a PM.

[hernicus]

For your information:

Federal On-Site Registration IS still POSSIBLE for Mill Springs, PROVIDING you are a member of one of the member or affilaited units within the First Federal Division (not certain what the set-up is for the AoT). Random, un-affiliated walk-ons will NOT be permitted, but if you want to join your pards then you will be accepted.

Hope this helps!

See ya all there!

Mark Hernbroth
AIG, FFD

[RJSamp]

Based on the number of personal threats to my very sinew and fiber.....this event came off fairly well. Bugler's are no ones favorite due to O Dark 30 Reveille's on both Saturday and Sunday....even when the moon is bright. The afternoon battles lasted for hours, featured long distance musket firing, and back and forth movements through woods, hills, and dales..... lot's of Sibley and Bell tents in the camps.....and LOTS of horses. Dozens of trailers. The 2nd Minnesota arrived in a bus which dropped them off on the company street.....their 4 bell tents were up in under 15 minutes from bus discharge.

Jim Moffet and Dom Dal Bello voted best commander's for utilizing Bugler's. 10th IL skirmisher company under Bob Winter and Regimental commander Mike Lavis cited as best unit manuevering at a distance by the bugle. Kudo's to my counterpart Pete Peterson...his CSA bugle calls were readily heard by our command staff at half a mile+ with woods and ridges in between.....and lowered our reliance on Handy Talkies for requesting CSA intentions/time hacks for the different phases/movements of the scenarios.

Always fun to see artillery pieces firing from their ACTUAL battlefield positions.

Firewood and water were fine, no cars in camp (Yea!), and those of you who remembered to bring your own TP (isn't that a reenacting event RULE?) had no trouble with the sanitation facilities (seen on a portapotty Tank/truck in Indiana and note to self: Oui, Oui Enterprises of Indianapolis is a clever name).

Saw lots of old friends, kissed and made up with a few former friends (absence and time make the heart grow fonder?), and was absolutely exhausted by Sunday at 9PM when I flopped into a motel bed, waking up around 9AM for the drive back to Chi Town (So Griese didn't get it done against Detroit, the Mets Tanked, and the Badgers/Packers won AGAIN!!!)...

A new command staff will be announced shortly by our new First Federal Division General....will be interesting to see where the NSA heads next year....May in KCMO? June/July in Gettysburg? I wonder if they'd ever let us reenact/fight ON the grounds of the Elkhorn Tavern.....

[Clsinclair]

.will be interesting to see where the NSA heads next year....May in KCMO? June/July in Gettysburg? I wonder if they'd ever let us reenact/fight ON the grounds of the Elkhorn Tavern.....
__________________
RJ Samp
Bugle, Bugle, Bugle


We had a meeting at Mill Springs and we talked about the "Battle of Chickamauga" on September 19, 20, and 21, 2008 for the 2008 NSA event.

Regards,
Claude Sinclair

[Jim of The SRR]

Jim Moffet and Dom Dal Bello voted best commander's for utilizing Bugler's. .....


RJ,

Are we talking at Mill Springs this past weekend or just generally speaking?

Regards,
Jim Butler

[Greg Barnett]

Really enjoyed the weekend and had a great time in John's tavern. The show was awesome and the battles were good. The downside for me was loosing items. I lost a credit card Fri night and to top it off, I left behind a rather expensive item in reenactor parking. I am rather tearful and hope someone turns it in.

So the question is, does anyone have a contact for lost and found?
The credit card is no big deal, but the other item I will really miss.

Any help would be appreciated

[RJSamp]

RJ,

Are we talking at Mill Springs this past weekend or just generally speaking?

Regards,
Jim Butler

Mill Springs. You don't want to know the commander's names that utilize bugler's to their fullest potential, trust me. And I've worked with a few dozen 'commanders'.....East, Midwest, South.

[RJSamp]

Really enjoyed the weekend and had a great time in John's tavern. The show was awesome and the battles were good. The downside for me was loosing items. I lost a credit card Fri night and to top it off, I left behind a rather expensive item in reenactor parking. I am rather tearful and hope someone turns it in.

So the question is, does anyone have a contact for lost and found?
The credit card is no big deal, but the other item I will really miss.

Any help would be appreciated


Go up to the event website and get the number for the organizers.....they're probably still scooping up tree bark off the roads, and collecting the mounds of straw/firewood...... a cavalry belt with holster and all the other goodies was turned in to the Federal Cavalry camp and returned to the TN owner.....so there is hope!!!

[Greg Barnett]

Mr Samp
Thanks, I am keeping hope alive.

Add: My faith in our community has been validated and my musket has been found!!

[Jim of The SRR]

Mill Springs. You don't want to know the commander's names that utilize bugler's to their fullest potential, trust me. And I've worked with a few dozen 'commanders'.....East, Midwest, South.

In regards to Dom, the AOP did not even have a battalion there??? The AOP consisted of the SCAR company only. We were placed in another battalion under their staff. ??????

Jim Butler

[pineyboy]

Did anyone get any photos of the SCAR company?

[Suppelsa]

Did anyone get any photos of the SCAR company?

I also would be interested in seeing some of the C.S. Infantry.

[Jim Moffet]

Here's a photo of the Minnesota boys, representing Company B, Second Minnesota Volunteers. Research at the Minnesota Historical Society showed that they were still in the dark blue trousers originally issued prior to receiving orders to Kentucky. Though they had been issued dress uniforms, these had been placed in storage prior to the opening of the campaign.

Jim Moffet
Co. A First Minnesota

[JimConley]

I'm curious as to how this event actually came off. For a big event, I notice that only a few have posted and with not so jaunty replies. What do some of the NSA reps have to say about this one? I spoke with a few vendors and participants that relayed the event left much to be desired.

Now, this has come up before; fighting the big events. Doug Cooper and I disagree as to the future of these NSA events. As I understand it, he would like to see a mass of authentics attend NSA events to improve quality and to influence direction. I, on the other hand, believe that with so many events going on in the "authentic" world (East, West, Trans Miss) that we have enough to deal with and improve on in our own events. In the last few years, numbers at events (pick your poison) have fallen. At authentic events, you have guys getting out of the hobby, tackling gas prices, and having real life to deal with. The same goes for the big events, only with the addition that organizers have tried to make things more active and "authentic," which has pissed off a lot of mainstream groups that like to do whatever it is that they do. And why shouldn't they, the organizers?

I can't help but think that Mill Springs was a direct reflection of the additional shortcomings of big events (if you can imagine that) in the last couple years. I don't wish to attack people that have been in the planning and efforts of these events specifically at the sites that have hosted NSA events in recent years. One of whom I consider a friend and I try to support however and whenever I can. However, I hope that the people that push these things on the boards and get folks in line come to the realization that the time has come where they're largely barking up the wrong tree. This isn't the 125ths or even the 135ths anymore. We're now in the 145ths and a time, I think, where numbers of people who want to do it right is growing more than ever. And, it's these same people that want to get away from big events and all their silliness as much as the majority here does.

So, what to do about it? I vote that any event that is not of an authentic basis overall not be allowed to be promoted here. And I have noticed, recently, that the administration seems to be following such a path. There are plenty of other places to promote big events and authentic contingents at such.

Point being, why go out of our way to better events like Corinth or Mill Springs when we should be working to better out own? Instead of a big NSA shoot-em-up, why not work to gain numbers and quality at events like Rich Mountain, Pickett’s Mill, Outpost III, or Bummers, for example? Personally, I'd much rather see 500 enthusiastic authentics running up a hill at events like Rich Mountain rather than a couple hundred show up at the next NSA event in a sea of canvas and mockery.

Maybe I'm cynical. Maybe I'm a pessimist. But I can also be an optimist. And, whatever optimism may be within me says that we stop wasted efforts and improve on what it that we are here for.

Am I the only one? Don't be bashful. Speak up. I think that we all need to collaborate to improve, not settle.

[hernicus]

Jim:

I appreciate all your comments. It was a very well-thought out, well-written post. I commend you for your enthusiasm and your opinion. We are each entitled to one! That's what the men in federal blue and butternut grey fought for!

The one piece I would challenge you on is this: How do we improve the overall authenticity of events? By "boycotting them" and only going to our own closed living history events? My answer would be an emphatic NO.

I remember my "epiphany" (0ver 15 yrs ago) about trying to improve my impression and becoming what later was called "hardcore." I saw other soldiers doing things better than I was, and I asked a ton of questions of them, and looked to them as an example, which casued me to do tons of my own research, start buying better gear, start learning how to be a true "soldier" in the field, learning the military drill, protocols, as well as the thread counts. But if it wasn't for those guys that I SAW doing it better, I probably would not have started improving on my own impression as quickly.

One of my best enactment experiences was at a mainstream event: 135th Antietam (1997). I served as second sergeant of Company B in the Army of the Pacific. Our Battalion created a very authentic experience, even in the midst of the "canvas city" of that mega-event. Our camp became an "oasis of authenticity." We issued rations, did drill, had little canvas, had authentic kits, represented our historical unit authentically, and had great placements in the scenarios. And when the AOP marched down the road to battle, through the "mainstream" camps, many an eye looked up and many a head turned and said "WOW, who are those guys? They look impressive!" And when we manuevered on the field, used field music properly, had mounted staff , and when people saw our campaign camps, they were impressed. I don't have any data as to how many people took notice, but I am certain that we kindled in people a desire to improve, both in kit/impression and in soldierly behavior. That would NOT have happened if we had boycotted that event!

I enjoy living history events, smaller more authentic events at least if not more than most. I have ZERO desire to just burn powder or go to get a funnel cake. But our greatest assest as a C/P/H "community" is our combined knowledge and our ability to educate others and show them, by example, how to improve. True, many just want their "picnic with guns" and we will never change them, but if we can affect some, who may not even know we exist if they never see us, then we are doing a service to the hobby and to those who went before us. If we hide from the world and shut ourselves up, all we are doing is further dividing an already shrinking hobby.

We will never have 100% authentic events. It's not possible unless we discover time travel (or start using live rounds and sewing our foreskins back on!). So we are merely talking about MINIMIZING the anachronisms as much as possible. It's a sliding scale at best.

The NSA is dedicated to providing large scale (battalion-level), quality experiences for the C/P/H community. The recently-elected Commanding General of the First Federal Division (Union side of the NSA) is a long time campaigner and a true soldier if ever there was one, Steve Dunfee, one of the founders of the AOP. If ever there was a supporter of the C/P/H movement at the senior level, it is NOW! We need your help! We need the support of the C/P/H community to make this suceed!

We are in the process of re-forming a "campaigner brigade" within the FFD which will include the AoP and other groups. Many of the considerations (quality, campaign camp, living history opportunities, proper military schedules, etc) will be accomodated as much as possible at NSA events, to allow the Campaign battalion to have a positive experience. I believe that it is the experience that we CREATE ourselves, and not the event that we go to, which is the most important. The Event is only the canvas: it is the people we are with that create the work of art. We are dedicated to giving you the tools to paint a masterpiece!

As Chief of Staff of the First Federal Division, I and my staff are dedicated to improving the quality of NSA events ACROSS the BOARD, and particularly committed to affording an opportunity for the C/P/H community to come together as an Army and have an authentic, quality experience at a national, battalion/brigade level.

So we have a choice, we can close off to the rest of the hobby and "bathe in the light of our own glory" as we count each others' stitches, or we can step up to the plate and be true soldiers and be shining beacons and examples to our hobby. I quote Scripture:
"No one after lighting a lamp puts it under the bushel basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory..." (Mat 5:14-16)

The choice is each one of ours, and I respect each man's choice. I only know which path I have chosen. I invite you to walk with me!

Blessings!

[JordanRicketts]

No pictures here, but I had a good time considering... Jim Butler, and the SCARs thanks for the great hospitality!

Jordan Ricketts

[csabugler]

Jim Conley wrote in his remarks

"The same goes for the big events, only with the addition that organizers have tried to make things more active and "authentic," which has pissed off a lot of mainstream groups that like to do whatever it is that they do. And why shouldn't they, the organizers?"

I have to ask, if the NSA and the big event organizers are moving toward better quality events, and suffering the loss of numbers at "national events" that is evident for all to see, then don't we as the authentic community owe it to them to respond to that and offer our support?
There is a changing of the guard in the federal side of the NSA. Mark , judging by his remarks, seems to want to move forward. I say let's make the effort. I have done mounted bugler at 3 events with the AOP and they have always done a superb impression under less than authentic surroundings.
I hope to continue my association with Mike Moore and the AoT. I know there will be some "look the other way" situations, but I am going to do my part.
The only drawback to having had Lasic eye sergury last year is that I can't just take off my period spectacles when I don't want to see something!

I have 18 years in the 4 year war. The improvements from when I started are astounding. There has been a lot in the last 5 years. Alot of that is due to the leadership in this community. I say we keep leading by example, not disassociation.

Just my opinion.

[JimConley]

The one piece I would challenge you on is this: How do we improve the overall authenticity of events? By "boycotting them" and only going to our own closed living history events? My answer would be an emphatic NO.

I remember my "epiphany" (0ver 15 yrs ago) about trying to improve my impression and becoming what later was called "hardcore." I saw other soldiers doing things better than I was, and I asked a ton of questions of them, and looked to them as an example, which caused me to do tons of my own research, start buying better gear, start learning how to be a true "soldier" in the field, learning the military drill, protocols, as well as the thread counts. But if it wasn't for those guys that I SAW doing it better, I probably would not have started improving on my own impression as quickly.
Hello Mark,
I understand where you are coming from and I agree with you about setting an example for others. However, it doesn't take a mass effort to make yourself available to folks that may be interested in bettering their experiences. At last year's Perryville, myself and a platoon of fellows did a small Living History that represented Maney's 9th Tennessee right along the battle line of the grand assault. We drilled, handed out letters, maneuvered, and interacted with groups touring the battlefield and re-enactors too. It wasn't the most exciting or active weekend, but I think that most of us came away feeling good about helping the park by providing interpretive and hands-on experiences to visitors and others. I remember Pat Landrum having a fifteen minute conversation with a group of people about period coffee remedies and concoctions. And we all fielded some very good and interesting questions. By making ourselves available to everyone, it was easy to see who was really interested in what we were doing and in a positive and inviting manner. I've found that re-enactors that are interested are more likely to approach a small group of guys interacting with people rather than a battalion of guys that they may think are "those mean hardcores." I'm not saying that we should totally dismiss big events, hardly. But I do think that it has become squandered effort for a mass effort of fellows to show up at one of these things and be let down by shortcomings that could have been easily avoided. So, get 10 or 12 or 20 of your pards together and put yourselves in a position to interact and be approached.

We will never have 100% authentic events. It's not possible unless we discover time travel (or start using live rounds and sewing our foreskins back on!). So we are merely talking about MINIMIZING the anachronisms as much as possible. It's a sliding scale at best.
Even as somewhat of the antagonist here, I can see that this is a very glass is half empty kind of attitude. No, we will never be 100% authentic nor will our events. That it not what I am going for here. But we can still make them better by sharing research, improving impressions, and experimenting with new scenarios. Minimize the anachronisms, yes, but increase and improve the authentic aspects too. Again, we shouldn't settle, we should progress.

I have to ask, if the NSA and the big event organizers are moving toward better quality events, and suffering the loss of numbers at "national events" that is evident for all to see, then don't we as the authentic community owe it to them to respond to that and offer our support?
Hello Patrick,
I'm just curious why or how we owe it to them? As Mark said above, it is everyone's personal choice what they choose to do with their hobby, and lately I see less and less make the choice for these events. Let me put it out there like this: If the NSA and big events are trying to move in that direction, they are basically trying to wade out the bad habits and impressions. I know one site that is trying to do this not only for their big events, but for every other year as well. So, what will you have as things unfold in the future? National Event numbers will continue to dwindle and instead of thousands, you'll have hundreds that make the cut. Then what's the point? In affect they're moving towards making NSA events a more authentic experience...We already have that! We've got living histories, tacticals, immersion, semi-immersion, garrison, interpretive, and educational events! Why continue to go to NSA events when we could make authentic events bigger and better? Then you won't have to worry so much about good eyesight, you'll be thankful for it.

Does anyone see what I'm getting at? Anyone?

I think I'm at the right website. Isn't this authentic-campaigner.com? :confused:

[Cfarrell]

At what point do numbers become authentic? To me its not about improving the mainstream side of the hobby. They have what they have and we have what we have. Its about seeing something we don't see all the time.

Now, I support the authentic event 100% and if I had to choose one over the other it will always be the authentic. But its nice to see 10 or more battalions maneuvering and interacting with one another on both sides from time to time. For me, seeing seemingly an endless line a yanks or rebs is down right awesome.

In short - NSA events have there place and while they are mainstream they offer a form of authenticity that we can't see at LH's, Outpost's, or Winter 64's. Which events are better...of course its the smaller authentic ones that win hands down. Which events should we support...the authentic of course...but a NSA event wouldn't be so bad once in a blue moon.

Regards,

[csabugler]

Hello Patrick,
I'm just curious why or how we owe it to them? As Mark said above, it is everyone's personal choice what they choose to do with their hobby, and lately I see less and less make the choice for these events. Let me put it out there like this: If the NSA and big events are trying to move in that direction, they are basically trying to wade out the bad habits and impressions. I know one site that is trying to do this not only for their big events, but for every other year as well. So, what will you have as things unfold in the future? National Event numbers will continue to dwindle and instead of thousands, you'll have hundreds that make the cut. Then what's the point? In affect they're moving towards making NSA events a more authentic experience...We already have that! We've got living histories, tacticals, immersion, semi-immersion, garrison, interpretive, and educational events! Why continue to go to NSA events when we could make authentic events bigger and better? Then you won't have to worry so much about good eyesight, you'll be thankful for it.

Jim, Let me make a little analogy here that is a bit off-topic, but I think makes the point. You visit a new bar in town. They don't sell your brand, and you tell them they ought to. So you leave and never come back. The bartender orders your brand, but has to reduce his stock of others. You never come back to drink it. Now the bartender is stuck with your brand, you go somewhere else, and he lost customers by reducing his stock of other brands. If you ask the bartender to stock your brand, do you owe it to him to come back and patronise his bar?
I'm not saying that these events are changing because we want them to, but if they are changing and we don't attend, they lose out on account of doing want we wanted them to.

I have made about 90% of Critter Company events in the last 9 years. some were mainstream, many were top notch. As a mounted bugler, I don't get much opportunity at 100 man events. At Corinth in '05, I maneuvered 5 seperate "battallions" or what ever they called themselves by the bugle, from a great distance. That WILL NOT happen at a 100 man living history. Shouldn't that be seen?

You are right ,we all do this for our own reasons and make our own choices. You have made yours, Mine is to attend both types of events and continue to encourage those who need help.

[hernicus]

Jim:

ANY attempts to educate, empower, and bring up the "masses" is a well-founded endeavor. Your experience at Perryville was such an attempt. We need more people like you, looking OUTWARD like that and less people closing up and keeping up the bad reputation of the "mean hardcores" as you so rightly mentioned. If I had a dollar for every time I was called an "authenti-nazi" ...

My only caveat would be what we define as "authentic?" 5-20 "pards" sitting on the roadside, unattached, walking around the sutlers, handing out pamphlets, doing their own thing (be it living history or drill) is not "living hsitory authenticity" in my opinion. Unless you were actually detached from your company/regiment, and under the command of an officer, in 1862 you wouldn't just be "hanging" out on the battle line (unless you were doing a correct picket/grand guard scenario). I'm not judging your Perryville experience too much becasue I don't know the details, but I am speaking generally of what alot of us C/P/H men tend to want to do at some events. We end up being "those guys" off by ourselves in the corner.

The best way to be authentic is to be a SOLDIER. And if there is one thing that defines a soldier's life, be it 1862 or 2007, it is military: discipline, organization, and regimen. Our best opportunity to be hardcores is to be a soldier's soldier, and push oursleves and our pards to live a soldier's life as much as we can during events. Lead by example is my motto.

We all have to work hard to improve our own impressions (no one in the hobby has "arrived" at perfection yet) and impart our knowledge, experience, and understanding on others. And I believe unity is more productive than divisiveness.

Being AUTHENTIC is not only about havign a great kit, or knowig your drill.. its ALL OF IT, its about being a soldier!

Mark Hernbroth
Semper Unitas Semper Libertas!

[Alamo Guard]

Every now and then ya gotta go to a farb-or-rama just you can savor and enjoy a good event.
If every event was as good as Banks Grand retreat was we would all get bored out of our collective skulls.

[jacifus]

Cody:
I hope you guys might want to fall in with the 12th Texas at Liendo next month!
It would be a great opportunity to show the progressives how you guys do it!

[Charles Heath]

Boys,

Don't let this devolve into one of those "missionary work" threads, for you know where it will go from there. Be nice, and please realize which forum this is.

[Silas]

If every event was as good as Banks Grand retreat was we would all get bored out of our collective skulls.
So says that thieving man in black who proclaimed he was a preacher. You looked like you were having a good time trying to obtain things from the soldiers on the march for the supposed benefit of the civilians. I openly contemplated that only beneficiary of the goodness of soldiers was one particular civilian in black.

[Spinster]

Well, lets see. Here's what one old lady on a cane saw:

Working military camps, with a working Provost Guard that was checking on our intents and reasons for approaching the military camp long before the event went live.

Matter of fact, I had to wait for a pass and escort on Thursday to discuss matters with a Confederate command staff member. Same thing held through the last time I needed to go up there on Sunday, to turn in a roster and pay AOT dues for our organization. Much consternation and delay occurred, even though I had 'modern' business. As it should have.

Same general outline on the Federal side, with a working Provost demanding all sorts of information and denying entrance left and right. I didn't have any business there, but for those of my folks that did, there was red tape aplenty for even the smallest thing.

There was a mixed military/civilian camp way over there somewhere--I saw it once, on my way to park the car. Given where spectator parking was, I'm betting the bulk of the spectators saw military camps with appropriate early war tentage.

We had a dandy little cabin in the woods, built to the purpose by the Park, on the site of an documented home on the battlefield. We saw a few dozen mounted scouts, all of whom stayed in period character. Several hundred Confederate infantry marched past during that 'real time' battle. For once, the documentation allowed us to be Confederate, cheer, and wave a red-white-red banner, after several years of doing Unionists for these events.

I can't speak to the battle scenarios--like most wise civilians, we'd headed for the ravine or the root cellar. I can say that armies ebbed and flowed around us, through woods and clearings, and our underaged boys got pressed into service as guides. The youngest with us was 4, the eldest near to 70. Men too old to be pressed into service this early in the war, 2 women on canes, one in a wheelchair, children outnumbering adults--an excellent cross-section of rural society was present, with known relationships and background.

And, most importantly, at least to us, we were there. The command staff of the AOT has repeatedly illustrated their knowledge that this war was not fought in a vacumm--that those places an army finds a fine place to fight, march over and destroy are our pastures, our forests, our fences, our livestock, and our churches, our homes. They know full well that the great majority of the nation were not soldiers, but civilians, throughout the years of the war. As such, they have never artificially limited civilian numbers, or left us out of the planning process.

Missionary work? Gracious--its a rare person who is interested in the lower/farming class impression we do. Everyonce in awhile, somebody hunts us up, and we fold them right on on--and a few folks did get out the map and find us this time just for that purpose. Glad to have 'em. but we don't hunt them up. I do my education and recruiting at much smaller events.

So, yes sir, I had fun. It was worth the months of work it took to put together certain parts, even if we were too tired after Banks Grand Retreat to lift a finger. More than one man who showed up for that event is also a major player within the NSA. There are many different manifestations of leadership--this type of leadership is certainly one I can, and do, admire.

[Hoosier Yank]

Does anyone see what I'm getting at? Anyone?

Jim, I hear ya loud and clear and if it wasn't for me heading

Jim, I hear ya loud and clear. I won’t waste bandwidth by repeating what you’ve already said. I know others out support your ideas! You are not alone.

[Suppelsa]

Well, lets see. Here's what one old lady on a cane saw:

Working military camps, with a working Provost Guard that was checking on our intents and reasons for approaching the military camp long before the event went live.

Matter of fact, I had to wait for a pass and escort on Thursday to discuss matters with a Confederate command staff member. Same thing held through the last time I needed to go up there on Sunday, to turn in a roster and pay AOT dues for our organization. Much consternation and delay occurred, even though I had 'modern' business. As it should have.

Same general outline on the Federal side, with a working Provost demanding all sorts of information and denying entrance left and right. I didn't have any business there, but for those of my folks that did, there was red tape aplenty for even the smallest thing.

There was a mixed military/civilian camp way over there somewhere--I saw it once, on my way to park the car. Given where spectator parking was, I'm betting the bulk of the spectators saw military camps with appropriate early war tentage.

We had a dandy little cabin in the woods, built to the purpose by the Park, on the site of an documented home on the battlefield. We saw a few dozen mounted scouts, all of whom stayed in period character. Several hundred Confederate infantry marched past during that 'real time' battle. For once, the documentation allowed us to be Confederate, cheer, and wave a red-white-red banner, after several years of doing Unionists for these events.

I can't speak to the battle scenarios--like most wise civilians, we'd headed for the ravine or the root cellar. I can say that armies ebbed and flowed around us, through woods and clearings, and our underaged boys got pressed into service as guides. The youngest with us was 4, the eldest near to 70. Men too old to be pressed into service this early in the war, 2 women on canes, one in a wheelchair, children outnumbering adults--an excellent cross-section of rural society was present, with known relationships and background.

And, most importantly, at least to us, we were there. The command staff of the AOT has repeatedly illustrated their knowledge that this war was not fought in a vacumm--that those places an army finds a fine place to fight, march over and destroy are our pastures, our forests, our fences, our livestock, and our churches, our homes. They know full well that the great majority of the nation were not soldiers, but civilians, throughout the years of the war. As such, they have never artificially limited civilian numbers, or left us out of the planning process.

Missionary work? Gracious--its a rare person who is interested in the lower/farming class impression we do. Everyonce in awhile, somebody hunts us up, and we fold them right on on--and a few folks did get out the map and find us this time just for that purpose. Glad to have 'em. but we don't hunt them up. I do my education and recruiting at much smaller events.

So, yes sir, I had fun. It was worth the months of work it took to put together certain parts, even if we were too tired after Banks Grand Retreat to lift a finger. More than one man who showed up for that event is also a major player within the NSA. There are many different manifestations of leadership--this type of leadership is certainly one I can, and do, admire.

Can't say I was this impressed with the provost, as I was repeatedly challenged by guards with their rifles slung, among other issues.

[jacifus]

Sherry:

I met your husband at 1st Manassas, about 3 or 4 years ago. He is a character! :)
Good to see he is still out there having fun!

Give him my regards, I was with Jack King's 1st Texas in those days :)

[majdoc]

My Lady
I had a lot of fun reenacting with the civilians. Even though I was with the big bad provost.
As to the one not impressed with the Provst Co., come on over and try it out if you have never done it. Warning it is hard work all weekend with little rest.
Thanks again Ms. Lawson. We will meet again.

[RJSamp]

Boys,

Don't let this devolve into one of those "missionary work" threads, for you know where it will go from there. Be nice, and please realize which forum this is.

Do we have some alternative events where we can do those authentic things like
Divsion Drill
Brigade Drill
Battalion Drill
??

this isn't missionary work, it's coming up with a venue/format where we can put a few hundred rifles together and do it right. I have vivid memories of the AOP at A135, ChickADusty 1999, Raymond 2001, your campaigners at A140. It's tough to get 200+ rifles together at any event.....if not an NSA campaigner friendly event then which one?

2 CPH Nationals per year.....

[Coatsy]

For "Battalion Drill" I can answer with a positive "Yes"

Chickamauga this year comes to mind first, so does Jimbo's Shiloh event.

Brigade and Division, nope.

Continue discussion........

[yankeecav]

Gentlemen,

Preservation is also an important aspect that I think many of us here are interested in. Someone posted on another thread on this forum that $125,000 was raised through the event at Mill Springs.

Now I am all for authentic events but can we raise that kind of money at the much smaller authentic events? I think I can stomach 1 lower quality event a year if I know they are raising substantial funds to preserve the ground hallowed by the sacrifice of the men we portray.

Just my 2.

[JEBminnesota]

Gentlemen,

Preservation is also an important aspect that I think many of us here are interested in. Someone posted on another thread on this forum that $125,000 was raised through the event at Mill Springs.

Now I am all for authentic events but can we raise that kind of money at the much smaller authentic events? I think I can stomach 1 lower quality event a year if I now they are raising substantial funds to preserve the ground hallowed by the sacrifice of the men we portray.

Just my 2.

Thank you Tom for bring this subject up.

This is why we do NSA events.

[Jim of The SRR]

I'm curious as to how this event actually came off. For a big event, I notice that only a few have posted and with not so jaunty replies. What do some of the NSA reps have to say about this one? I spoke with a few vendors and participants that relayed the event left much to be desired.

Now, this has come up before; fighting the big events. Doug Cooper and I disagree as to the future of these NSA events. As I understand it, he would like to see a mass of authentics attend NSA events to improve quality and to influence direction. I, on the other hand, believe that with so many events going on in the "authentic" world (East, West, Trans Miss) that we have enough to deal with and improve on in our own events. In the last few years, numbers at events (pick your poison) have fallen. At authentic events, you have guys getting out of the hobby, tackling gas prices, and having real life to deal with. The same goes for the big events, only with the addition that organizers have tried to make things more active and "authentic," which has pissed off a lot of mainstream groups that like to do whatever it is that they do. And why shouldn't they, the organizers?

I can't help but think that Mill Springs was a direct reflection of the additional shortcomings of big events (if you can imagine that) in the last couple years. I don't wish to attack people that have been in the planning and efforts of these events specifically at the sites that have hosted NSA events in recent years. One of whom I consider a friend and I try to support however and whenever I can. However, I hope that the people that push these things on the boards and get folks in line come to the realization that the time has come where they're largely barking up the wrong tree. This isn't the 125ths or even the 135ths anymore. We're now in the 145ths and a time, I think, where numbers of people who want to do it right is growing more than ever. And, it's these same people that want to get away from big events and all their silliness as much as the majority here does.

So, what to do about it? I vote that any event that is not of an authentic basis overall not be allowed to be promoted here. And I have noticed, recently, that the administration seems to be following such a path. There are plenty of other places to promote big events and authentic contingents at such.

Point being, why go out of our way to better events like Corinth or Mill Springs when we should be working to better out own? Instead of a big NSA shoot-em-up, why not work to gain numbers and quality at events like Rich Mountain, Pickett’s Mill, Outpost III, or Bummers, for example? Personally, I'd much rather see 500 enthusiastic authentics running up a hill at events like Rich Mountain rather than a couple hundred show up at the next NSA event in a sea of canvas and mockery.

Maybe I'm cynical. Maybe I'm a pessimist. But I can also be an optimist. And, whatever optimism may be within me says that we stop wasted efforts and improve on what it that we are here for.

Am I the only one? Don't be bashful. Speak up. I think that we all need to collaborate to improve, not settle.

Jim,

I used to feel just the same way. Are NSA type events my favorite? No, I have better experiences at c/p/h events. However, ALL event numbers ar ein decline. I believe that if we stick to ONLY c/p/h events we will finally dwindle away to nothing. I don't see 500 c/p/h guys at ANY events!
The NSA is not perfect, but at leas they are trying to push ahead by enforcing some standards on the mainstream. The Federal camp at Mill Springs looked good. I saw no modern intrusions and only saw one small area that had civilians and even then they had nothing modern in camp. Now thsi represneted Logans Crossroads, so the Federals had Sibleys, common tents etc. Could we get these mainstream folks to do a correct camp for Atlanta campaign? Remains to be seen? I digress. I feel that if camapigners don't support these types of efforts, we will never continue to grow and show that we are willing to compromise in any way. You don't have to throw out your whole calendar and forsake all the c/p/h events, but I think it is worthwhile to attend one of these events as well each year.

Jim Butler

[Jim of The SRR]

Hello Patrick,
I'm just curious why or how we owe it to them? As Mark said above, it is everyone's personal choice what they choose to do with their hobby, and lately I see less and less make the choice for these events. Let me put it out there like this: If the NSA and big events are trying to move in that direction, they are basically trying to wade out the bad habits and impressions. I know one site that is trying to do this not only for their big events, but for every other year as well. So, what will you have as things unfold in the future? National Event numbers will continue to dwindle and instead of thousands, you'll have hundreds that make the cut. Then what's the point? In affect they're moving towards making NSA events a more authentic experience...We already have that! We've got living histories, tacticals, immersion, semi-immersion, garrison, interpretive, and educational events! Why continue to go to NSA events when we could make authentic events bigger and better? Then you won't have to worry so much about good eyesight, you'll be thankful for it.

Jim, Let me make a little analogy here that is a bit off-topic, but I think makes the point. You visit a new bar in town. They don't sell your brand, and you tell them they ought to. So you leave and never come back. The bartender orders your brand, but has to reduce his stock of others. You never come back to drink it. Now the bartender is stuck with your brand, you go somewhere else, and he lost customers by reducing his stock of other brands. If you ask the bartender to stock your brand, do you owe it to him to come back and patronise his bar?
I'm not saying that these events are changing because we want them to, but if they are changing and we don't attend, they lose out on account of doing want we wanted them to.

I have made about 90% of Critter Company events in the last 9 years. some were mainstream, many were top notch. As a mounted bugler, I don't get much opportunity at 100 man events. At Corinth in '05, I maneuvered 5 seperate "battallions" or what ever they called themselves by the bugle, from a great distance. That WILL NOT happen at a 100 man living history. Shouldn't that be seen?

You are right ,we all do this for our own reasons and make our own choices. You have made yours, Mine is to attend both types of events and continue to encourage those who need help.

Patrick makes some very good points. Some experiences we just can't recreate with 250 men.
I also see a lot of eltism raising its ugly head. "We're too good to reenact near or with those guys." No, don't run off and feel the need to camp near a farb camp of dismounted. But, if a good group of mainstream reenactors is making clear improvements then why not camp near them and drill with them. Try and build some friendships and maybe you will pull a few (I don't have any illusions to missionary work) over to better events.
Frankly, I saw a handful of c/p/h guys at Mill Springs (ones who you would think are the most authentic) and they were frankly the worst soldiers at the event. Being a poser is not authentic (even if it is at a mainstream effort).
The Critters were at Mill Springs and they created a memorable moment for the mainstream Federal battalion. The Feds were standing down on the backside of a hill near the crest. The battalion I was in was in reserve. Suddenly you heard hoofbeats and the Critters thundered over the crest and fired into the startled Federal battalion. The Feds were talking about that all afternoon. Now, if the Critters didn't attend, then the mainstream would have missed out on that moment.
In Georgia, the SCAR, Armory Guards and Critters have supported the Battle of Resaca for the last few years. We all know what the event is about. But, I believe our prescense has made some noticable improvement to the event. T

We are going to have to turn away more from the uncompromising poser, fractionalized elitist and unreliable cyber-reenacting ideals or we will soon be no more than a handful of guys struggling to even represent a platoon.

Regards,
Jim Butler

[Charles Heath]

Folks,

I'm sad this has turned into a 70+ post sermon crying, begging, and pleading for missionary work. It is what it is, and it isn't something that really needs to be here.

If people want to go to farbfests, mainstream hootenannies, and authenticist clotheshound gatherings, then go. The AC Forum Event Gestapo is not going to install a mini-webcam in your reenacting gear room, check the trip mileage on your Urban Assault Vehicle, microchip your canteen, have the OCN hunt you down while you are standing in the registration medallion line, or recall any of your campaigner merit badges, progressive pins, or hardcore hash marks while you are enjoying yourself at the funnel cake stand fixin's bar, or getting that gotta-have-it extra large Perfesser Schnockelglinker's Sasparilla (free refills) at the next "show 'em how it's done" crossroads encampment and skirmish. Perhaps a few people have forgotten the bad old days, so in the form of one side splitting object lesson, here's an essay worth reading:

Dave Frohmader is my hero. (http://sipleymess.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14&Itemid=1)

No, no, no...click the link and read it. A heck of a lot of folks have lived through that very witch hunt. Their stories are incredibly similar.

In the interest of fairness, truth, justice, and the American Way, the 3rd Tier events are for Carpe Eventa, and Campaigner Adjuncts. It's the perfect place to pimp out the next value added effort at upcoming Battle of Something Local, N/SA production, Mason-Dixon Alliance hoohah, or even next year's Andersburg mainstream event (see carpe eventum already in progress). If there is some redeeming feature to the event in the form of an organized presence by higher level reenactors, then by all means have at it. Nobody is stopping you from spending the resources to make it happen. Just remember it is easier to invite someone to dinner at your house than it is to build a kitchen at theirs.

To add responses to a couple of questions....

Battalion drill? Yep. We'd have more if some of these keyboard kampaigners would....wait, that's a rant for another time.

Brigade drill? Yep, but not often. Ever wonder how those 44 and 65 man brigades perform evolutions of the line? Me, too.

Fundraising? I can think of two events in recent years that topped $90,000 for battlefield preservation. Kudos to Mill Springs for passing that mark with vigor.

As an astute observer once said, "Still goen [sic] to the wrong events?"

[Jim of The SRR]

Some Mill Springs pics are posted at:

http://www.geocities.com/saltriverrifles/MillSpringsPhotos.html

Jim Butler