Corp badges

[SCTiger]

Comrades:

For your excellent consideration, I found this table on Corp badges in a second hand book "The Complete Civil War" by Philip Katcher/Cassell printing /2003.

US Army Corps Badges 1863-65

Corps Badge Adopted I]notes[/I]

I Sphere 21 March 1863

II Trefoil " "
III Lozenge " "
IV Equilateral
triangle 26 March 1864
V Maltese Cross 21 March 1863
VI Greek Cross 21 March 1863 Light Div. Green
VII Crescent/star 6 Jan 1865

VIII Star w /six rays never officially adopted

IX Shield with figure
9 in centre crossed
with a foulded anchor
& cannon 4 October 1864

X 4 bastioned fort 22 May 1864
XI Crescent 21 March 1863
XII Star 21 March 1863
XIII None Adopted
XIV Acorn 26 April 1864

XV Transverse Square
cartridge box with
motto " 40 rounds" 14 Feb 1865

XVI Circle with 4 Minie'
balls, points to center
cut out of it Never officially adopted

XVII Arrow 25 March 1865

XVIII Cross with foliate
Sides June 1864

XIX 4 pointed star 18 Feb 1863 Gulf Divisions

XIX fan-leaved cross
with octagonal
centre 17 November 1864 Middle Military Div.
XX Star 26 April 1864 4th Div. Green
XXI None Adopted
XXII Quinquefoliate shape Not offiicial
XXIII Shield 25 September 1864
XXIV Heart 18 March 1865
XXV Square 20 Feb 1865


Also since these were "adoption" dates, the troops probably weren't supplied that very day with new corps badges, unless they had been wearing them "unofficially.' I have seen quite a number of Corps badges at pre 1863 events.

Also from the same book:

"The Union Army eventually fielded 25 corps, each designated with a roman numeral, i.e., IX Corps. On 21 March 1863 each member of a corps in the Army of the Potomac was assigned a unique insignia to wear on his cap, front or side or left breast so that he could be identified easily on the battlefield. the practice spread until by the end of the war most Union corps had some unique insignia. These cloth or metal badges were generally red for the first division, white for the second division and blue for the third division. Corps with added divisions used green for the fourth and orange for the fifth divisions."

[flattop32355]

General Hooker was the one who formalized the use of Corps badges after he took over the AOP from Burnside, to improve identification, but also to up the esprit of the troops. I don't believe it was a common practice until the 11th and/or 12th Corps were transferred to the West that it became usual for those troops to adopt such insignia.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

General Hooker was the one who formalized the use of Corps badges after he took over the AOP from Burnside, to improve identification, but also to up the esprit of the troops. I don't believe it was a common practice until the 11th and/or 12th Corps were transferred to the West that it became usual for those troops to adopt such insignia.


Dont forget Hooker went with those corps when they went west.

[pvtRB_4thOVI]

I am researching corp badges so i can put an authentic one on my forage cap, but have run into a few problems. My unit belonged to the 2nd Corps, 3rd Division .I haven't seen many good examples of 3rd Division (blue) ones. the ones i have seen are sky blue, but i am still unsure of the shade of blue used. The 2nd corps ones i have seen pictures of are all red or white. If anyone has any info about what material, color to use, etc. or anything else I would appreciate it. i have some wool felt that is similar to royal blue, but considerably darker.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

There was somebody making really good repro 3rd div 2nd Corps badges abóut 6years ago. I will see if I cannot find who it was.

I found referance of the 14th Indiana (Carrolls brigade) being issued corps badges just before Chancellorsville, but have found no referance to them being issued any after that. You can intrepret this one of two ways. They were only issed them once, or they never bothered writting down issueing them again :tounge_sm

[GreencoatCross]

There is indeed a man making correct corps badges. Contact me off the forums and I'll give you his e-mail address!

Here is an example of his work; this is a II Corps 1st Div. badge he made using a copy of an original document provided by Don Troiani. The document apparently had various versions of different badges (sketches or actual cloth samples I do not know) but he uses the "final" designs for his badges. The attached photo is an example of the larger March 1863 variety of II Corps badge.

Brian White

[Jimmayo]

Here is a little blue for you. Since many corps badges were sutler provided there may have been various shades of blue used. There are some more examples (not blue) on the following page. If memory serves me correct, this one was painted. You could always opt for a brass or silver badge.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/relics.html

[dirtnap]

The book "Civil War Battle Flags of the Union Army and Order of Battle " contains the corps badges of the 1st through the 25th corps in color. If you can find a copy at your local library or book store. It is a compilation of two volumes reprinted in 1997 by Knickerbocker press, they were originally printed in 1885 and 1887. The two volumes were essentially companion books to the OR's.

Paul Leonard
1st AL US artillery

[billwatson]

Love that compound corp badge, trefoil atop the diamond, on jim Mayo's page. Would that be 70th NY, Excelsior Brigade, originally second division, third corps, then second division, second corps? If so, that is a late-war example of an infantry horn on an extremely veteran regiment.

[pvtRB_4thOVI]

Thanks for all the help. I'll definetly have it right now!

[Mutt]

Hum, ok, so I know we have examples of originals and tons of original images with fellas with corps badges on their caps, hats, frocks n fatigues. Something that hasn't really been mentioned and that I think should be considered especially in corps badges is the personnal touch and preference of the soldier. Yeah, he may have the exact smae badge as some of his pards or the whole company even. Especially witht he aforementioned sutler sellin em off. But he may also, and orginals prove this (I'll have my bud post bout his metal detector findings if ya want or I'll quote him), make his own out of scrap metal or cloth. It may big big or small or not shaped perfectly. He may even take a sutler bought one and alter it. They're all possibilities in my mind.

It' s great to have an original to model a repro after, ideal even. But I think a little leeway can be given in reproducing corps badges. Just too many soldiers in the war to deem one style of a badge as simply "correct" or "uniform" or anythign like that. Now correct in materials and how you make it, ok that makes sense and is great. Just think bout the discussions on the federal uniform and how it never really stayed uniform due to preference, need, or what have you. Uniformity and the correct army regs of dressing went down as the years dragged on. Dress hats were battered and thing altered like mad.

Anyway, jsut food for thought. I love corps badges :) Great topic all.

Regards,

[DougCooper]

Contact BJ Zircle at Giltwire@aol.com. he knows corps badges, and makes super reproductions off of the numerous originals he has owned or examined.

[Robert Braun]

An original Third Division III Corps badge worn by a man in the 124th NYSV of Ward's Brigade was nothing more than a square of sky blue kersey cloth.

The square was worn on end, in the form of a lozenge, on the man's cap. Happily, both the original badge and an image of the man wearing it, survived.

Bob.

[Rich Mason]

Check out this link to look at a nice original private purchase corps badge.

http://members.tripod.com/~howardlanham/link83.htm

Rich Mason

[markj]

Greetings,

Check out this nice, enlarged image. It clearly shows an officer sporting what is probably an enameled 2nd Corps badge:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2225054750&category=125&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Bill Cross]

I want to make sure that no one who is registered as Federal for "Into the Wilderness" will be unaware that a corps badge is expected on every forage cap. There are four styles available from giltwire@aol.com. The preferred enlisted man's options are the bottom three (please see attached image). Contact the vendor about pricing. All three are offered in a period wool and not the modern felt. The badge should be affixed as a cross and not as an "X".

If you are of a mind to make your own, the suggested dimensions are 1 3/4" in diameter by 5/8" wide across the arms of the cross.

[justthemiller]

Dear Bill,

On April 19th, 1864, wasn't an order issued from the Commanding General, 6th Corps, stating that the Corps Badge was to be worn as a St. Andrews cross and not a Greek cross? I believe this was done in order to avoid confusion with the 18th Corps, who wore a (at least from a distance) similar device. If your folks are portraying the 7th Maine after that date you may wish to keep that in mind.

[DukeRPSC]

Dear Bill,

On April 19th, 1864, wasn't an order issued from the Commanding General, 6th Corps, stating that the Corps Badge was to be worn as a St. Andrews cross and not a Greek cross? I believe this was done in order to avoid confusion with the 18th Corps, who wore a (at least from a distance) similar device. If your folks are portraying the 7th Maine after that date you may wish to keep that in mind.

James,

Not to argue with you here... and we do appreciate your help... but while your point about the order may be true, I've never seen one worn that way in any picture. I know the corps and divisional HQ flags showed the cross the way you indicate. I would suggest that taking as evidence the placement of inscriptions on the pricier private purchase versions of these items or placement on extant examples of hats and forage weighs against wearing them as per the directive of the order. That doesn't even address how they're portrayed in post-war drawings, which is as a Greek Cross. I'd suggest the PEC method here to be as a Greek cross and not a St. Andrews cross as per your quoted order.

Many times soldiers do things one way while orders may state otherwise.

[RyanBWeddle]

David -

Here is a shot of Vermont man wearing his 6th Corps badge more as an "X" (S. Andrew's) rather than a "t" (Greek).

<img src="http://www.cjdaley.com/4thVT9.jpg">

I would say that either way is correct, obviously men would have them sewn in the Greek style prior to the order. Who can say what the individual did...

But, both are correct for your timeframe, and it should not be prohobited...

[DukeRPSC]

[QUOTE=RyanBWeddle]David -

Here are a shot of Vermont man wearing their 6th Corps badge as an "X" (S. Andrew's) rather than a "t" (Greek).

Ryan:

With respect, not so. Study carefully the way the man's frock coat is opened and how it would show the cross when buttoned closed. Look at the cross in relation to the buttonholes and the open edge of the coat. I'd say it places the points of the cross up and down, not diagonally. Thus, the Greek cross.

I still adhere to the PEC format being as a Greek cross.

[DukeRPSC]

My earlier post: "Not to argue with you here... and we do appreciate your help... but while your point about the order may be true, I've never seen one worn that way in any picture."

I did find one and, of all places, it was on the 7th Maine ITW website. Duh-er! I have seen this picture. The gentleman clearly wears his badge in compliance with the cited order.

Memory...it's just not what it ought to be. Yes, I'll take a bit of salt with that egg off'n my face, too.

[Bill Cross]

Your best bet on how to wear your badge would be to follow the practices of your mess mates and others in your company. When in doubt, wear it as a "cross" and not an "X," since we do not have a definitive answer on practices in the 6th Corps at this point in the war. The evidence leans to this interpretation with some variation.

[RyanBWeddle]

<img src="http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3b40000/3b45000/3b45700/3b45759r.jpg">


<img src="http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/01900/01948r.jpg">

I don't know why I keep posting on this, I don't even know who you're potraying, etc. I'm not even attending this event . . .

BUT, here's another couple images of 6th Corps badges as the St. Andrew's cross...one is of staff officer's of the 6th Corps, badges seen worn both ways...The other is off Gen. Seymour w/ his Corps/Div. flag....

I still think both are correct for the Spring/Summer of 1864. Orders are orders...

[DougCooper]

Regarding the circular directing that the Greek Cross turn into a St Andrews Cross in April 1864 - Your avg pvt was probably not real happy to have to remove and sew their badge on at an angle...I imagine any number of wags took to standing crooked in formation to approximate the "new angle."

That change is just the kind of thing that drives combat soldiers nuts - and justifies the existance of the Army functionary that first suggested it (Corps Badge Department?).

In fact if you note the Corps Flag in the bottom photo posted by Ryan has the flag correct but hanging so as to show a Greek Cross - perhaps a subtle protest.

Messing with badges that folks love is a sure route to create hate and discontent...

[FC Barlow]

The photo above actually show Maj. Gen. Horatio Wright, not Truman Seymour, as previously stated.

Just wanted to clarify.

[RyanBWeddle]

Doug - That wouldn't be only Corps Badge protest in the war. The Iron Brigade when transfered to the 1st Brigade, 4th Division, 5th Army Corps, Army of the Potomac in August, 1864, wore this badge as a sign of protest. I believe that Billings or F. Todd covers this . . .

Corps badges were an immense sign of unit pride.

Sorry for going crazy on hijacking this thread. . .and Mr. Berkoff is right, I mis-labeled the general by accident..it is Gen. H. Wright

[FC Barlow]

And the sitting officer second from the right in the group shot is 7th Maine's Thomas W. Hyde, then serving on Sedgwick's staff, probably taken near the Welford House (at Brandy Station) in spring 1864.

Didn't mean to start this again...I just can't help it.

[Bill Cross]

That wouldn't be only Corps Badge protest in the war.

You said a mouthful, brother!

After the 3rd Corps was decimated during the second day at Gettysburg, the 7th NJ was transferred into the 2nd Corps. The soldiers showed their contempt for this decision by putting their corps badges on the seats of their pants. :wink_smil

[Steve Acker]

In Echoes of Battle: The Atlanta Campaign, on page 23 there is an excellent interior photo of six IV Corps men. The man the back is wearing a corps badge.
In Billings, Hardtack and Coffee it states that,
"This badge, cut two inches in diameter, from cloth of colors red, white and Blue, for the 1st, 2nd and 3rd divisions respectively, may be worn by all men of the Corps."
This comes from General Order NO. 62, dated April 26, 1864, from Major-General Thomas.

Corps pride, the date of the order and the ease of finding blue wool, makes a corps badge a sporting adornment to your black hat.

Steve Acker
Hogg Mess
Captain for Picketts Mill

[FlaYankee]

Steve;
Please correct me if I'm wrong; Whereas on the hat it states in Billings H&C "enlisted men were require to wear theirs on the front of their hat or the top of their cap." :thinking: On the blouse or jacket, on the left side.
So should we apply the 3rd Division, 4th Corps, badge now or wait till we arrive at the Mill?
Thanks;
Kindest Regards;

[Cleaveland]

Steve;
Please correct me if I'm wrong; Whereas on the hat it states in Billings H&C "enlisted men were require to wear theirs on the front of their hat or the top of their cap." :thinking: On the blouse or jacket, on the left side.
So should we apply the 3rd Division, 4th Corps, badge now or wait till we arrive at the Mill?
Thanks;
Kindest Regards;

harold, read Geo.Thomas's orders for the Army of the Cumberland, I believe they are in hard tack and coffee. I don't have it in front of me but I belive the badge was to be on the side of the hat. I will try and find the order. if we can clear up witch side do it before you come. If you could if you have access to good material bring extras.

[justthemiller]

Hello all,

Basically the few photographs that show a 4th Corps badge usually show it fixed to the left side of the hat. Also, portraying a unit in Hazen's brigade where he would have been a stickler for such things as wearing a proper Corps badge should make one want to wear a proper badge. Take care.

[FlaYankee]

Jim and John; thanks for the information. As I recall last time we did wear them on the left side of the hat. The information I did get from HC seemed vague. I have about two or 3 corps badges, basically some old sky blue satinette, I had laying around. These are promised already but I;ll search around for some more fabric.
fRegards; :wink_smil

[markj]

Greetings,

Uncomfortable Question of the Day: What makes us think that corps badges were in wide use within the 4th Army Corps at the time of Picketts Mill? Given that this badge was only adopted 30 days before the engagement, when the corps was actively in the field, pray allow me to state I have my doubts.

Of all the images I've seen (published and unpublished) of the 32nd Indiana (1st "Willich's" Brigade, 3rd Division, 4th A. C. in May 1864) I've seen only one depicting a corps badge...and that shows a captain sporting a private-purchase badge pinned to his chest. I've also examined the regimental order books of such units as the 15th Ohio and 49th Ohio, also of Willich's Brigade, and none of them carry any general orders directing wear of corps badges.

Interestingly, as a side note, I did see a general order dated 5 May 1864, by Colonel H. J. Espy, 68th Indiana Volunteer Infantry, stating "In order to secure uniformity in the dress of the men, Co[mpany] Commanders will prevent the breaking down [of] the crown of the uniform Hat."

With all due respect, I think we might need a little more documentation that "Hazen...would have been a stickler for such things...." Can the photograph of the 4th Army Corps men be dated with any precision? I'm not saying corps badges weren't used in May 1864 but if people like August Willich, a Prussian who was absolutely anal-retentive about discipline and proper procedures, didn't mention anything about mandatory wear of them, we can only wonder who did. Perhaps regimental histories and the order books of the 6th Indiana, 41st Ohio, etc. will provide a definitive answer to this question.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

P.S. I would suggest we avoid using Roman numeral designations for army corps. To my knowledge, this practice only began in the 20th Century--perhaps as late as World War II. I've seen hundreds, if not thousands, of contemporary references to army corps and, without exception, either Arabic numerals are used or the number is spelled out (e.g., "4th A. C." or "Fourth Army Corps"). If anyone has seen anything to the contrary, I'd love to know!
Thanks.

[markmason]

MARK J. YOU ARE AWESOME! :wink_smil

[Steve Acker]

I will never use roman numerals in reference to a 19th Century corps again. I learn something every day.
The photo I refered to (Echoes of Battle) has no date and only one of the six men show a 4th Corps badge. He wears it on his left breast. They are not showing hats howevers so only history knows if there are badges on the side of their hats.
Based on all what's been said, do we pursue badges or not?

Teach with humility, learn with enthusiasm,
Steve Acker
Hogg Mess

[Cleaveland]

Yes we will use them.

We freely admit it is hard to prove or disprove at what point, Gen. Thomas' order was complied with by the thousands of men under his command The lack of Photo graphic evidence does not deter Us from wanting to see them wor., How in the middle of 100 days of fighting does anyone have his image struck? That Subordinates don't make mention of it in the records that we have... Well, We doubt in the scheme of things ,incuring heavy loss in lives, marching almost everyday, entrenching at every stop, We believe that it would not be to hard to forget to mention that the men where ordered to wear corps badges.

What it comes down to is the men in the 5th kentucky of Hazens brigade, Woods' division, Howards corps, Thomas' Army were ordered 30 days prior to the battle of Picketts Mill to be wearing blue Triangles as a badge.

We, the organizers of this event are Guessing that the men of the 6th kn had them on when they fought at the mill. If anyone can offer us anything better than their own conjecture as for not wearing them We will gladly listen to them , Next week. We have an event to put on this weekend.

I hope everyone coming to Picketts mill this weekend has a safe trip.

[justthemiller]

Hey All,

While the forum was down yesterday evening Mark Jaeger and I were e-mailing one another over this subject and Mark had an excellent suggestion which I feel would reflect the realities of this campaign. Basically paraphrasing what Mark suggested, there should be a smattering of Corps badges throughout the unit to reflect the use of them as based on period refernces, photos and other written sources. This, I feel, would hopefully & accurately reflect the fact that Hazen would have tried to implement the order but the time factor between the issuance of the order and the time they marched out on campaign would have been short and folks just, for one reason or another, could or could not comply with the order. Hazen was a royal pain in the backside during winter quarters but once the campaign was getting underway I felt would have worried about first things first. And that would have been that the men were properly drilled, accoutered and armed for the fight. Take care all and I hope to see many of you at the Mill.

[markmason]

As I suggested on our own Midwestmess forum, give someone half a dozen or so badges and toss'em to the wind, whom ever grabs one can break out a housewife and quickly sew it on. I think the fear amon us all is everyone jumping on the wagon and putting a badge on. Worse than this would be everyone sewing a badge sewn on in this same location..

Just my 2 or 3 cents worth

[Frenchy]

I own the OR on CD and much to my suprise I cannot find Hooker's general order that introduced the corps badge to the army in it. I'm doing uniform research for the Iron Brigade and I'm hoping to find official regulations as to the size of the corps badges and where they were to be placed on the hats and/or coats.

[BarryDusel]

Frenchy,
It's there. The circular as to Corps insignia , Shape, colour , etc.
Go to the OR's.
Series 1 , Volume 25-Part 2. Chapter 37 Pg. 152
The order as issued 21 March , 1863 by Command of MG J. Hooker is there.

[ejn]

In Colonel Charles Wainwright's dairy he writes, "In General Order No. 53, Hooker prescribes ..." Entry is dated May 14, 1863, Thursday.

While having nothing to do with the Iron Bridage, I thought this might be of interest. Wainwright also writes, "No special badge has been ordered for the artillery; but most of them have adopted the corps headquarters badge. I have not ordered it, but allow my men to wear it when they choose. I mean them all to wear their cross cannon and letters on their caps which will mark them all sufficiently."

Ed

[RyanBWeddle]

I own the OR on CD and much to my suprise I cannot find Hooker's general order that introduced the corps badge to the army in it. I'm doing uniform research for the Iron Brigade and I'm hoping to find official regulations as to the size of the corps badges and where they were to be placed on the hats and/or coats.

Here's an old photocopy of the order that I've had for a long time, the quality of it is bad. It clearly states they are to be worn on the top of the cap.

Also I've added the OR page that Mr. Dusel referenced.

That's all I have. For the Iron Brigade, I would suggest your search should start with the Wisconsin Veterans Museum collection. They have plenty of books, etc. check online for their website.

Good luck!

[Frenchy]

Merci boucoupt mes amis!

I don't know why I had so much trouble locating this order in the OR. I did see mentioned elsewhere in 1864 the size of the corps badge for the colored troops serving in the Gulf was to be two inches by two inches. Do you suppose a this was a standard size adopted by the War Department?

[PrivateRBDavis]

If there's anyone who can shed some light on this, I've totally exhausted all resources...

When Hooker established the corp badge system in March 63, the 155th PVI (2nd brigade - 3rd Division - V Corp) attained the blue maltese cross corp insignia corresponding to their corp/division.

BUT... In May, just after Chancellorsville, they were moved to the 3rd brigade - 2nd Division - V corp. This would beg a switch to the white insignia.

Does anyone know if they changed their insignia to the newly appropriate WHITE maltese cross prior to Gettysburg? Which would be appropriate for this unit for a Gettysburg impression?
_____________

Charles Cesca
Co. B 155th Reg PVI
Great-Great-Grandson of
Pvt. Richard B. Davis - 155th PVI

[markj]

Hi,

When you say you've "exhausted all resources" does this mean you've already examined any and all regimental order books for the 155th PVI (and it's brigade-mates) at the National Archives? There may be something in there....

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Have you checked the Official Records (ORs)?

[PrivateRBDavis]

Yes and yes. But I will double-check. I do know they were diligent with the insignia changes desipite their frequent division changes, as well as their drastic uniform change in 64. The Troiani collection has a 155th zouave jacket with the red insignia, and they were only in the 1st division for a relatively brief period -- March to June 64 (then again, that was an action packed several months).

Thanks!

_____________

Charles Cesca
Co. B 155th Reg PVI
Great-Great-Grandson of
Pvt. Richard B. Davis - 155th PVI

[Sprowls]

I'm not sure about earlier 155 PVI Corps badges, but just thought I'd
mention that Soldiers and Sailors Hall in Pittsburgh, PA displays
Pvt Noah Pangburn's original 155 PVI zouave uniform. A red Fifth Corps
badge also adornes Pangburn's jacket. I'm guessing you've read Under
the Maltese cross, Antietam to Appomattox, the loyal uprising in western Pennsylvania, 1861-1865 Publication info: Pittsburg, Pa., The 155th Regimental Association, 1910.

Chuck Sprowls

[GreencoatCross]

Charles,

I've had the same problem with the U.S. Sharpshooters. They belonged to Whipple's 3rd Division of the Third Corps in early 1863 but after Chancellorsville they were transferred with many other regiments to the 1st Division of the Third Corps. One diary entry states indefinitely (not memoirs, diary) that a blue badge was issued on April 16th, 1863. In addition to that nearly all of the U.S.S.S. photographs I've dated to the early 1863 period show men wearing corps badges made from a very lightly colored cloth.

However, the transfer into the 1st Division took place in early June, almost immediately after the Sharpshooters were re-clothed and re-equipped for the Gettysburg Campaign. No mention in any diary, memoir, record, or otherwise was made about having been issued, officially, any new badge. Some of the other regiments who the Sharpshooters were brigaded with were allegedly allowed to retain their blue badges so it's a possibility that the U.S.S.S. did the same. After all, almost immediately after their transfer they began the march heavily.

This does not explain most extant U.S.S.S. caps and their RED badges though. The one in Gettysburg was supposedly found on the battlefield and upon closer inspection it is an officer's cap or private purchase cap. This one has a red badge tacked to the crown. Another cap, worn by Sgt. Lewis Allen, Co. F 1st U.S.S.S., sports a red badge pinned to the lower crown by a false embroidered stamped letter "F." This cap, and his worn-out fatigue blouse with dark green chevrons, came with a tag from Allen that stated he wore those garments during the Gettysburg campaign. Yet another cap, worn by Sgt. John Schermerhorn, Co. H 1st U.S.S.S., sports a red felt badge on the center of the crown (it's interesting to note that Schermerhorn's chevrons each had a red badge sewn to the top center of each, where an Orderly Sgt. lozenge would be). I do not know if these badges were field-made by the men but if they were I would have little to go on as far as finding out WHEN they were attached. So far no U.S.S.S. garments have appeared with the blue badge of their old division, and no officer-grade badges such as stamped metal or silver have turned up in blue either.

I don't have a smashing conclusion to my problem yet but until then my mess and I just go out with no badges unless the scenario is very specific, and even then we don't all wear the things. If we were to do Chancellorsville, yeah, we'd more than likely all have blue badges, but if we were doing Petersburg few would have any, and those few would be red Third Corps badges since they were allowed to retain them (we know that as a fact) after the transfer into the Second Corps. Some Sharpshooters reported that after their transfer into the Second Corps in early 1864, so many men raised such a fuss that officers let them retain their "Old Third" badges until they wore out. Naturally, the men kept replacing them with their own cloth and I have a feeling that Sgt. Schermerhorn put some extra red badges on his chevrons just to upset the Second Corps men. One diary entry stated that some men in the regiment were sewing their newly issued Second Corps badges to the seats of their trousers, inside blouses, on the interior of caps, etc.. Talk about pride!

Brian White

[PrivateRBDavis]

I'm not sure about earlier 155 PVI Corps badges, but just thought I'd
mention that Soldiers and Sailors Hall in Pittsburgh, PA displays
Pvt Noah Pangburn's original 155 PVI zouave uniform. A red Fifth Corps
badge also adornes Pangburn's jacket. I'm guessing you've read Under
the Maltese cross, Antietam to Appomattox, the loyal uprising in western Pennsylvania, 1861-1865 Publication info: Pittsburg, Pa., The 155th Regimental Association, 1910.

Thanks, Chuck. I've been through UtMC:AtA cover-to-cover and there's little or no mention of details regardng division color-coded corp insignia what-so-ever despite the title of the regimental history itself referencing the V Corp symbol. There are some crests and logos inside that include various maltese crosses, but since it's printed in b&w, it's hard to tell the true color of anything. They're either "white", light gray, or dark gray. But none are dated, etc.

What's worse is most of the portraits are either of the men in their late-war zouave fatigues, or of the men shortly after being mustered in -- Aug 62.

The red badges, which are the only colored ones I've seen on any existing 155th uniforms, were probably added when they were transferred to 1st brigade, 1st Division March-June 64.

I need to really really really dig to get to the bottom of this.

_____________

Charles Cesca
Co. B 155th Reg PVI
Great-Great-Grandson of
Pvt. Richard B. Davis - 155th PVI

[PrivateRBDavis]

I don't have a smashing conclusion to my problem yet but until then my mess and I just go out with no badges unless the scenario is very specific, and even then we don't all wear the things. If we were to do Chancellorsville, yeah, we'd more than likely all have blue badges, but if we were doing Petersburg few would have any, and those few would be red Third Corps badges since they were allowed to retain them (we know that as a fact) after the transfer into the Second Corps.

Sounds like my only short term solution. I have freshly cut red, blue, and white insignia on my shelf when and if I ever solve this.

Some Sharpshooters reported that after their transfer into the Second Corps in early 1864, so many men raised such a fuss that officers let them retain their "Old Third" badges until they wore out. Naturally, the men kept replacing them with their own cloth and I have a feeling that Sgt. Schermerhorn put some extra red badges on his chevrons just to upset the Second Corps men. One diary entry stated that some men in the regiment were sewing their newly issued Second Corps badges to the seats of their trousers, inside blouses, on the interior of caps, etc.. Talk about pride!

Hehe. That's a great story! Thanks so much, Brian.

_____________

Charles Cesca
Co. B 155th Reg PVI
Great-Great-Grandson of
Pvt. Richard B. Davis - 155th PVI

[Jimmayo]

There was one method used to change/display corps badges and that was to use a combination of both. I have a pic of a kepi with the white 3rd corps badge sewn to the top and a second corps badge sewn on top of the 3rd corps badge. Occasionaly you will see items with two corps badges displayed in this manner.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/relics.html

[Charles Heath]

I perused the "Corps Badge" related threads via the handy dandy A-C forum search engine, and came up with some good leads, but no firm answers for this one. Several of the federal Army Corps had fourth divisions in addition to the usual three. Fourth division corps badge colors were green or yellow, from what I can ascertain, the 5th, 6th, 9th, and 20th Army Corps had green fourth division corps badges, and the 15th AC had yellow. The fourth division in the 6th AC was also known by the moniker "The Light Division." Please, please, correct me if these assumptions based on some quick and dirty research and the usual charts are wrong. Specifically, I'm seeking a fourth division, 5th AC Maltese cross, overlaid on the (then defunct) 1st AC sphere/disc. Yes, red & green just like Christmas.

Finding several photographic examples of green corps badges is eluding me this morning. Yes, this is not NUG or PEC, but these badges existed, and some relics still exist to this day. The 9th AC badge on the website (nifty two part type with the fabric insertion) linked below -- about halfway down the garish yellow page -- shows a medium green insert:

http://www.mikescivilwar.com/corps_badgesII.htm

That's the only image of a green one that I can find with ease, but others exist somewhere out there in musuems and online. Knowing the vagaries of color matching between photographs, computer monitors, oxidation, fading, and a whole host of issues that would likely scare off a Pantone chart, is there anyone out there who has a good grasp of what this color would have been when newly issued? :confused:

What color green then vs what color green is available now as a match. The first assumption would be Berdan green as a default, but the overdyed green is different than the Woolrich (sorry) dark green commonly available. Anyway, I'm stumped on this one, and the best available product is most likely going to be "close" at best.

Any corps badge collectors out there this morning?

Charles Heath

[Ringgold]

How do, Mr. Charles?

I have a 4th Division, 9th AC badge in my greedy little mitts and have looked through some books to see if I could find a color match that you would be able to find in your collection as well. It appears your assumption is correct. In Echoes of Glory, A&Eot Union, on page 160, they show a 1st USSS frock coat. It is SPOT ON to the color of my corps badge. Look especially to the area around the right shoulder. I have even checked my corps badge's color against a wonderfully preserved soldier's memorial escutcheon for Captain Durell. It shows the exact type of badge that I have (one of the reasons I bought it) and the colors match perfectly.

But, as I'm sure you are aware, there was always deviations in tint on corps badges. I have 2 different 1st Division, 6th AC badges with one a beautiful blood red color and the other a brilliant scarlet that almost leans towards an orange tint. I should mention that all three of the badges mentioned have the color enameled on and do not carry the color in any cloth.

I hope this helps.

[GrumpyDave]

Knowing my luck, this is already in your been there, done that category:



http://www.civilwarmysteries.com/corps_badges.htm

[Charles Heath]

Grumpy Dave,

Been there, done that, but you'd be surprised at how many folks received the benefit of viewing that corps badge chart for the first time. About halfway down on this page is a modern illustrated example of the combined 1st AC and 5th AC badges, and in green on red. The effect is more cartoon than helpful, but it's still a small clue.

http://www.batteryb.com/iron_brigade.html

Obviously, it's just an illustration, but you get the general effect. While event portrayals have featured other variations in corps badge consolidation, the fourth division colors just don't pop up that often.

Mark,

Thanks a bunch!

It's not the most scientific color matching process, but this is about the best we can hope for at the moment. This now lends itself well to the next step in the process of making four dozen of these cheerful little insignia.

Charles Heath
Old Dog, New Tricks :D

[GreencoatCross]

That USSS frock in EoG is a gross recolorization of black & white photos published in Roy Marcot's book years and years ago.

The real USSS coat color is nearly black but the green does have a blue tint to it. I don't want people to think the 4th Div. corps badges were that color.

Brian White

[Charles Heath]

Brian,

Thanks for the warning. Yep, some of the "colors" in that publication are a bit off, to say the least. I sure wish someone would finally come up with the errata sheet that has been talked about for years. Just needed a "paint chip" for fabric, and Mark figured I probably had a copy of EOG-US (poor man's edition) hanging around the library.

Speaking of nearly black greens on originals, do you know if that particular USSS frock coat was one of those overdyed garments? I seem to recall a long discussion some time ago about how yellow dye was used over the existing blue to create the color green in a rush job to issue green uniforms. If that's one of those old campfire "urban folktales," then feel free to shoot it down. The overdye discussion may have been on the old EZ Board version of the A-C Forum.

Charles Heath

[GreencoatCross]

Charles,

I have no conclusive information about all U.S.S.S. uniform cloth but I think Don Troiani dug up some information regarding the first goverment-made uniforms, which were made and issued out to the Sharpshooters in April/May 1862. A call was made for cloth and I believe that the mill to win the bid provided 1,400 yards of 11 oz./yard sky blue kersey fast-dyed green. A pretty substantial find if this is correct; it proves a quick top-dye and possibly backs up accounts for the extremely poor clothing situation both regiments were in late in 1862 ("no two men identically clothed" stated the inspection report). There is also a good theory supporting the use of yellow cloth for the initial caps, which had to have been top-dyed to achieve the dark green color.

Before the Spring 1862 coat issuance it appears that Martin Brothers & Company in NYC provided the first coats to the U.S.S.S.. These coats were made from super fine cloth imported from England (possibly close to the modern day cloth from Hainsworth, which was allegedly providing cloth to the English armed forces of the time...including the rifle regiments) but they were constructed to regulations according to a communique between Colonel Cross at Philadelphia Depot and Colonel Vinton at NYC Depot.

Now, there has been a lot of speculation as to whether or not all of the USSS coat cloth was in reality top-dyed dark blue cloth but so far I do not think there has been any hard evidence to back that up. There may be only one solid lead on that, and that is with the Spring 1862 coats, but that does not account for the rest that the S.A. continued to produce throughout the war (there were so many surplus coats on hand that the 203rd Pa. Vols. were issued them as well as green pants and caps). I've seen one positively IDed U.S.S.S. frock in person and yes, it does have a strong blue tinge to it, not an olive one as seen in Pat Kline's cloth (which we had him produce but sadly quality control is lacking when you are forced to change dyers so frequently). If you took a piece of FHW's "Berdan Green" coat cloth and laid it on the original coat....it would look brown. The true color of the coat is stunning in that it's so dark yet so strongly green when it's in the sun; it shines but remains nearly black so it's pretty strange. ALso, the cloth used in this coat is so fine that it appears to be velvet at first glance. Definitely top-grade cloth so it could have been something purchased on the civilian market of the time but again, I have no idea. I'm sure the answers are out there somewhere.

Oh yeah...and to elaborate further on coats. The one in EoG is the oft-termed "Sealed Pattern" Sharpshooter frock. This means, of course, that it was constructed under the auspices of the S.A./Philada. Depot but it was merely a sample coat for future coats to be compared to. Thus it was only a model, never saw combat, and was never worn except by perhaps a clerk or tailor to ensure a proper fit for whatever size it was made in. I have no idea what the garment is made from but some have speculated that it's left-over cloth used in the production of the Martin Bros. & Co. coats while others say it's made from the top-dyed 11 oz. stuff. Personally I try to avoid that coat like the plague...it does have some redeeming research qualities but again, it was really just a model locked away somewhere in Washington City and there are several other IDed U.S.S.S. frocks out there that did see service which can provide much, much, much more interesting information.

Yet another tirade...

Brian White

[kemper_rifles]

Greetings, comrades. I am wondering if anyone has had a chance to examine any extant 14th Corps badges, the acorn, particularly a blue 3rd division badge. I've been looking around and have only found pictures that have two seperate colors. Basically what I am wondering is if the originals are all one color or would the top part be a certain color and the bottom part change according to division. Any help or leads would be greatly pre-shated.

[msmjr]

Funny you should mention this...I recently pursued this very matter. The man with whom you need to speak - as I did - is Mr. BJ Zirkle. He just made me an "acorn" for my use in replicating something my ancestor likely had.

Contact him via e-mail at GiltWire(AT)aol.com [replace "(AT)" with the "@" so we can save him from some spam.] Great guy and he grants quick replies to e-mails!

Regards, hope this helps-
-Mike Montgomery

[kemper_rifles]

Funny you should mention this...I recently pursued this very matter. The man with whom you need to speak - as I did - is Mr. BJ Zirkle. He just made me an "acorn" for my use in replicating something my ancestor likely had.

Contact him via e-mail at GiltWire(AT)aol.com [replace "(AT)" with the "@" so we can save him from some spam.] Great guy and he grants quick replies to e-mails!

Regards, hope this helps-
-Mike Montgomery

I searched through the previous postings for info on corps badges and found the discussion about who makes repros. I did email BJ Thursday, but haven't got a response yet. Maybe he is away. I'll keep trying.

[markj]

Hi Kenny,

I presume you are referring to something like what's on this website?

http://www2.powercom.net/~rokats/corps2.html

There are undoubtedly folks much more knowledgeable than I on the subject of corps badges but, for the life of me, I can't remember once seeing a documented wartime 14th Army Corps badge that incorporated any of the official colors used to designate specific divisions. I'm not saying they weren't produced or worn, but I've just never come across them in all my reading and research.

From 1863 onward, periodicals like "Harper's Illustrated Weekly" frequently carried illustrated ads by one or more firms that specialized in making personally engraved corps badges--but they were generally made out of silver and there is no indication additional colors were incorporated into the design.

I've done quite a bit of research on the 10th Indiana Volunteer Infantry (2nd and 3rd Divisions, 14th A. C.) but don't ever remember seeing any references to wear of corps badges by its troops until long after the war. This isn't too surprising since the 14th A. C. "acorn" device was not officially adopted until 26 April 1864 and the 10th IVI mustered out the following September. Interestingly, the grave marker of 10th IVI Colonel Wm. B. Carroll (Mortally wounded at Chickamauga, 19 Sep 63) does incorporate the acorn device--it was erected circa 1868. The official regimental badge of the 10th IVI Veterans Association, adopted around 1881, also incorporates the "acorn" but, again, I don't recall seeing specific divisional color(s) used.

Perhaps some other, more knowlegeable soul out there in "AC Forum-Land" will provide additional insight into your question.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Charles Heath]

About five years ago, I saw a poorly made red acorn corps badge on a forage cap both of which were being passed off as original, but the lack of documentation, and the reputation of the individual who had it in his possession left much in doubt.

For those who don't know the story behind the choice of the acorn, this tidbit is from the 42nd Indiana Inf. website:

"The 14th Army Corps' badge was the acorn. According to Billings,

'Tradition has it that some time before the adoption of this badge the members of this corps called themselves Acorn Boys, because at one time in their history, probably when they were hemmed in at Chattanooga by Bragg, rations were so scanty that the men gladly gathered large quantities of acorns from an oak grove, near by which they were camped, and roasted and ate them, repeating this operation while the scarcity of food continued. When it became necessary to select a corps badge, the acorn suggested itself as an exceedingly appropriate emblem, and it was therefore adopted by General Orders No. 62, issued from HQ Department of the Cumberland, at Chattanooga, April 26, 1864."

It's often interesting to have a little background, even if it does not precisely answer the question at hand.

Charles Heath

[ScottCross]

General orders were issued by the Army of the Cumberland in April 1864 requiring all individuals to wear corps badges in the SINGLE color of their division (Its in the ORs, but I cant tell you the order number, volume, and page off the top of my head). Now, how much that order was enforced is difficult to say, since so few felt corp badges have survived, especially the 14th corps. I don't know if I've ever seen an original, found a reference, or an image of an individual wearing one. The 20th Corps certainly observed the regulations and I've seen numerous images and original examples of these. The only 14th Corps badges that I can recall seeing are the sutler store variety, etc.

[Charles Heath]

"The true color of the coat is stunning in that it's so dark yet so strongly green when it's in the sun; it shines but remains nearly black so it's pretty strange."

At least one variety of repop cloth is much the same way. Thanks to Brian Koenig aka "Jefferson Guards," I recieved a swatch of a dark green (very) cloth of this nature in the mail yesterday. Wow! Inside the house, it is almost black, but outside it does indeed have a green cast to it. It's darker than a Hunter Green, and not even as bright as a Floquil Weyerhauser Green. This is going to be a tough dye to match, and it will probably end up being a little greener than the fabric in hand.

Again, thanks for the sample!

Charles Heath

[Ringgold]

This thread certainly has swung into a strange (but interesting) direction! I suppose I should be glad that my badge didn't match John Deere Green (close, but a little too green), as I'd hate to see where THAT color chip would have sent this discussion.

Ever in wonderment,

[Charles Heath]

Mark,

Hey, now, even Farmall Red would have been much easier, but easy isn't always right. :wink_smil

It's another "what's right" vs "what's available" tradeoff, and the subject of natural and analine green dye or fabric usually broaches a number of topics anytime it is mentioned.

Charles Heath

[markj]

Greetings,

I noticed some interesting badges worn by the individuals in the attached images (both extracted from the same photograph). Anyone care to hazard a guess as to what they signify? I would presume the one worn by the man on the top left may be some kind of corps designator.

The bottom individual is also wearing an interesting rimless cap. Probably a camp, or lounging, cap of some sort.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[hardtack1864]

I have see quite a few of those on many Union soldiers, they seem to be I.D. badges, some sort of bagde for the unit, as seen in EOG, Corps badges, or something along that line, though I'm not sure which one of these it could be. Just depeneds when the photo was taken, because then it would rule out corps badge.

[rogue]

Mark,
Attached is a photo or two of a cap that turned up in the estate sale of the great-grandson of an Illinois artillery officer. Hand sewn dark blue broadcloth with red trim and brown polished cotton interior. Camp hat?
Steve Sullivan
46th Illinois
Co. Mil. Hist.

[markj]

Hi Steve,

Hard to say. It could well be a "camp hat" but it could just as easily be a "lounging" or "smoking" cap of the sort that remained popular into the early 20th Century. The cap could even be European--it's really difficult to determine what it is without knowing more about the provenance of the piece. It does seem to be in remarkably good condition for its alleged age!

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[adamandnicole]

Does anyone know much about the "heel cleats" that are pictured in Lord's Encyclopedia? It is the only place that I've seen originals, although I did see a repro set over the weekend. These cover the entire heel and the ones pictured in Lord's have a corps emblem cut out in the middle. They are very interesting looking and definently not over represented like their "horseshoe" cousins.

Thanks,

Adam Dickerson

[adamandnicole]

Has anyone ever even seen these items?

Adam Dickerson

[1stMaine]

Comrade,

In either "The Diary of Infantryman Petit" or Daniel Chisolm's diary, there's a comment about wearing cleats in wintertime because of all the ice, frozen mud and snow around camp. He also writes for his father to send him a pair of boots rather than shoes. The ones that I have seen were identical in outline to the standard mini-horse shoes that everyone seems to wear, EXCEPT that, instead of being flat and smooth, they were ridged, sort of like a concertina stretched into a "U" shape. I've also seen ones with scalloped edges, both horizontal and vertical to the shoe.

One point, however, is that in every case of attached cleta that i have seen, they were put on with scr*ws, not nails or brads. Every set I have seen were a civilian item, and if attached to shoes or boots, were civilian footwear, not government issue.

I can tell you, however, that they were a staple of life in New England, and probably elsewhere, and remained so until the advent of comercially produced rubber soles and/or boots to replace them, which was in this past century.

Respects,

[Charles Heath]

In either "The Diary of Infantryman Petit" or Daniel Chisolm's diary, there's a comment....

Tim, did you mean The Diary of a Dead Man: 1862-1864, complied by J.P. Ray, which is Ira Petit's letters and diary from his last days on the family farm until his demise at Andersonville. I'm wading through Dennis "Army Snuff" Shank's copy these days, and it is a darn good read. His mistrust of the mail system is timeless.

As to footwear appliances, D.P. Newton's White Oak Museum near Fredericksburg has a small collection of toe and heel plates well worth examining up close and in person. These were dug primarily from the 1862-1863 camps in that part of Stafford County, and thanks to the excavation of a corduroy road, and the donation of said road remnants to the museum, he also has a nice pile of shoes right near the front door.

If folks haven't been to that museum chock full of items of interest to those potraying the common soldier, then consider making it a side trip in conjunction with The Slaughter Pen event in October.

[1stMaine]

Charles,

I was going from memory. The book I was refering to is "Infantryman Petit", the CW letter of corporal Frederick Petit, edited by William Gilfillan Gavin. Fred was in the 100th PA. He, too, wrote a series of letter reproduced in this volume, and also did not survive the war, being killed at Petersburg by a sharpshooter.

Respects,

[Richmond Depot]

This style of heel plate is found quite frequently by relic hunters. Dug originals are readily available at most relic shows ( around Richmond anyway). They are probably very under represented in today's reenactment ranks.

I must admit however, I have never noticed any with cut outs in the shape of Fed. Corps badges at the shows....not to say they don't exist, I just haven't noticed any.

There is a guy at the NSSA nationals who sells these. Don't remember his name, but I believe that he is from the mid-west. He makes them in sheet iron or sheet brass.

Best,

[Jimmayo]

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/relics.html

I have two examples of horseshoe heel plates on the above page about half way down.

Small brass heelplates with Crosses, Hearts etc. cut into them are found in CW sites as well as non CW sites. The prevaling opinion on these are that they are boot plates (for small heels) , civilian and period.

[33rd VA Co. H]

This style of heel plate is found quite frequently by relic hunters. Dug originals are readily available at most relic shows ( around Richmond anyway). They are probably very under represented in today's reenactment ranks.

I must admit however, I have never noticed any with cut outs in the shape of Fed. Corps badges at the shows....not to say they don't exist, I just haven't noticed any.



Though this is not the "cleats" the original question was referring to,.. I absolutely agree that the type of heel plate you're talking about is way under represented. They are commonly found by relic hunters with trefoil, diamond, heart and quite a few other shapes cut into them and some were much larger than others. I can see where some folks would think they could be corps designations but they were not.

Here is a picture of a bent up toe plate and a well worn small version of the heart style heel plate I detected some years ago. The toe plate was obviously attached with small tacks but the heel plate was in my opinion attached with screws. The heel plate is shown from the side that went against the heel. The other side shows extreme wear which probably was the reason it was discarded.
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4915&stc=1&d=1177890861

Charles Heath
As to footwear appliances, D.P. Newton's White Oak Museum near Fredericksburg has a small collection of toe and heel plates well worth examining up close and in person. These were dug primarily from the 1862-1863 camps in that part of Stafford County, and thanks to the excavation of a corduroy road, and the donation of said road remnants to the museum, he also has a nice pile of shoes right near the front door.
I'm proud to say I found relics from that courderoy road along Stoneman's Switch and have a few large pieces of that very road in my collection. For those interested, a friend of mine made some decent videos of the excavation as it was taking place. The fun starts at Episode 18 but Episode 21, 22, 23,24 contain the best look at the road.
http://www.treasureoutfitters.com/2005_11_01_archive.html

[Poor Private]

This past march I bought a pair of full heel plates, that had the 5th corp cross cut out of them. They were brass. I picked them up at the Kalamazoo Mich. Living history show. A guy I believe who was with the 1st Michigan Light arty was selling them for $20 per pair.

[adamandnicole]

Just to clarify, I was also referring to the heel plates that some of the the other guys had mentioned. The only reason I used the word "cleat" is because that is the title they were given in Vol 2 of Lord's Encyclopedia. Thanks to all that responded.

Adam Dickerson

[Minieball577]

The man who makes and sells the reproductions of heel plates from Michigan is John Hughes. He sells them through e-bay as CWRedleg or directly at hughes3rdbattery@aol.com, if you are so inclined. Good fella to deal with, and a good friend of mine. I know he makes several patterns that are fantasy, but many are documented to originals. He also hase several originals in his collection.

[Silas]

Here's a photo of one type he creates :
http://i21.ebayimg.com/04/i/05/d7/bf/0a_1.JPG

Here's a link to the above mentioned ebay store (http://stores.ebay.com/The-Soldiers-Heel_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZQ2d999QQftidZ2QQtZkm). My posting isn't a quality assurance. Just passing along information.

[rejtiger]

Guys,

From what I have gathered the 56th Ohio was in the 12th corp at the time of Vicksburg. I have also found that the 12th Corp badge was a 5-point star. Is any one for sure if their Corp badge was a 5-point star at this time? Any help?

Ryan [Johnson]

[paulcalloway]

Yes, but Ryan who?

[rejtiger]

Ryan Johnson

[JKfifer119]

Guys,

From what I have gathered the 56th Ohio was in the 12th corp at the time of Vicksburg. I have also found that the 12th Corp badge was a 5-point star. Is any one for sure if their Corp badge was a 5-point star at this time? Any help?

Ryan [Johnson]

wasn't 12th corp fighting in PA at the time of Vicksburg

I see a number of Ohio regiments listed in the 12th but not the 56th least ways not around July of 63

[Tom Ezell]

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t108/TomEzell/Bart0.gif

Slocum's XII Corps was hiking around Virginia and Maryland in May and June of 1863, and was sitting on top of Culp's Hill at Gettysburg on July 4, around the time the little white flags popped up on the Confederate trenches at Vicksburg.

XI and XII Corps were sent to reinforce Rosecrans at Chattanooga in late September 1863, and subsequently consolidated into the XX Corps later that year.

Corps badges did not come into general use in the Army of the Tennessee until late in 1864 or early 1865.

[Arthur Stone]

Ryan,
As far as i know the 12 th corp had two bragades at G-Burg. The Red and White star. The Blue star wasn't there. Where they were at the time i'm not sure, I think in Pa. But someone out there should know for sure. After that campaign they were asigned to the 20 Corp.
Art

[rejtiger]

Fellas,
OK, here is what I have found. But, I cant find a badge for the 13th corp(sorry I must have mixed up corp with Div.)"56th Regiment Infantry. Organized at Camp Morrow, Portsmouth, Ohio, and mustered in December 12, 1861. Moved to Paducah, Ky., thence to Fort Donelson, Tenn., February 12-15, 1862. Fort Donelson February 15-16. Attached to 3rd Brigade, 3rd Division, Army of the Tennessee, to July, 1862. Helena, Ark., District of Eastern Arkansas, to November, 1862. 2nd Brigade, 12th Division, District of Eastern Arkansas, Dept. of the Tennessee, to January, 1863. 2nd Brigade, 12th Division, 13th Army Corps, Army of the Tennessee, to July, 1863. 2nd Brigade, 3rd Division, 13th Army Corps, Dept. of the Tennesse."

Ryan Johnson

[boozie]

The 13th Corps never had a badge, their reputation on the field was enough. If the old vets were still alive today they would use a line from "Blazing Saddles" - "BADGES, WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BADGES!"

www.civilwararchive.com/CORPS/13thcorp.htm

[rejtiger]

Guys,

Well, thank you all for your input and aid.

Greatfully,

Ryan Johnson

[Kevin O'Beirne]

NO CORPS BADGES shall be used by Federal participants at this event.

[coastaltrash]

Thanks Kevin I believe I said that on another forum on a thread started by this same person.

[rejtiger]

Thank you all for answering my question. I WILL NOT be wearing a corp badge.

Ryan Johnson

[fedcampaigner]

Hello,

I am interested in the wearing of corp badges by regular soldiers. I did a search and found several interesting articles but none mentioned the Regulars. I know that it depends on what year, theatre, etc. but how common were corp badges among Regulars? Can anyone help or point me in the direction to where I could find the answer? Thanks.

[sustudent]

Morgan,

I am sure that someone would be horrified that I call this research. However, I once saw a Don Troiani print of a Union Standard Bearer that depicted a group of Regulars in '64. In the background, there is the Regimental Color of the 3rd US Infantry, with a white maltese cross in the upper left hand corner. At some point I saw an actual regimental with the maltese cross on it, but the location escapes me. I would reccommend that you read The Civil War Letters of Sgt. Charles T. Bowen - 12th US Infantry. There is also another "diary" or something from a man in the 14th or 17th (I saw it in an NPS bookstore once, Knew I should have got it).

-Best of luck

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Check the CRRC2 article on Corp Badges.

[fedcampaigner]

This probably makes me sound like an idiot but what does CRRC2 stand for? Thanks

[blackhattertuck]

CRRC2 is the "Columbia Rifles Reasearch Compendium" Volume 2. A quite excellent book.

Your's &c

[fedcampaigner]

Thanks, a friend of mine has a copy...I'll check it out this weekend. Thanks for all the help. Cherrs!

[mtvernon]

Dear Mr. Tittle,

According to the Regimental History of the 10th US Infantry, they were mostly assigned to 5th Corps, 2nd Division, except for a time in 1864 when it was assigned to the 9th Corps from 23d of April to the 11th of June and participated in the Battle of the Wilderness. After that it was back to the 2nd division, 5th Corps. Within this classification they were at times with 1st and at other times with the 2nd brigade.

That would make their Corps badge a white Maltese Cross, although I'm not sure whether or not they wore it. The article in CRRC2 does not draw a distinction between volunteer and regular units in the Army of the Potomac, so in accordance with the evidence that most troops wore it, this probably applies as well to the regulars.

I hope this helps.

P.S. This is to whomever knows the answer, but the CRRC2 article is about Corps badges of the Army of the Potomac, but was the wearing of these limited to only this Army, or also, for instance, Army of the Cumberland, James, etc.? I thought up to now that eventually the entire US Army used them until last night when the article, emphasizing the Army of the Potomac, made me start to wonder.

Why do I have a sneaky suspicion that somebody is going to suggest I use the search function?:D

Respectfully,

[DougCooper]

Like most of these "regular" questions, without info to the contrary, I recommend you wear the regulation. Hooker's Corps Badge circular did not differentiate between volunteers and regulars, nor do there appear to be any other such orders, and when you think about, why would there be?

Regulars stood out because they were good soldiers, not because they were dressed or accoutered or badged differently.

Recommend "Ten Years in the Ranks, US Army" by Augustus Mayers (2nd US). Amazon has a copy.

[Jimmayo]

Excavated corps badges have been found in Butlers camps at Bermuda Hundred, around areas of Sherman's March as well as AOP areas. I would assume they were used in some numbers Army wide but perhaps they were more popular in the AOP since they were close to Washington and under the eye of more big wigs.

I have a few examples of the many types used on this page
http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/j_mayo/relics.html

[Rob Weaver]

Jim: I never visited your site before. Beautiful pictures! Would I be correct in assuming that the USCT in Butler's command would also be wearing corps badges?

[Goat]

Corps badges were adopted by commands other than the AoP, and in great variation, but not until later in the war in most instances (1864 and 1865, in min very many cases), and the adoption of those devices were usually decided upon in a less formal process.

The AoP badges were ordered into being by the high command at first, but not all units who served with the Army were ordered by the AoP command to adopt a certain device. The IV Corps is a good example: Burnside's Division, later Burnside's Ninth Corps, adopted a badge that featured the famous cannon, anchor and rope, set in a shield, to honor their service as an "amphibious" force earlier in the war. This was not one of the original badges ordered into service in March 1863, but it was never challenged either.

The Regulars were simply a part of the greater organization of the larger armies after the start of the war, and as such, were required, and probably the most consistent, in the proper display of the badges.

Rob Willis

[fedcampaigner]

Dear Mr. Tittle,

According to the Regimental History of the 10th US Infantry, they were mostly assigned to 5th Corps, 2nd Division, except for a time in 1864 when it was assigned to the 9th Corps from 23d of April to the 11th of June and participated in the Battle of the Wilderness. After that it was back to the 2nd division, 5th Corps. Within this classification they were at times with 1st and at other times with the 2nd brigade.

That would make their Corps badge a white Maltese Cross, although I'm not sure whether or not they wore it. The article in CRRC2 does not draw a distinction between volunteer and regular units in the Army of the Potomac, so in accordance with the evidence that most troops wore it, this probably applies as well to the regulars.

I hope this helps.

P.S. This is to whomever knows the answer, but the CRRC2 article is about Corps badges of the Army of the Potomac, but was the wearing of these limited to only this Army, or also, for instance, Army of the Cumberland, James, etc.? I thought up to now that eventually the entire US Army used them until last night when the article, emphasizing the Army of the Potomac, made me start to wonder.

Why do I have a sneaky suspicion that somebody is going to suggest I use the search function?:D

Respectfully,
Thanks for help Joe. I knew that the 10th was for the most part in the fifth corp. After a little more research I found that the fifth corp didn't officially adopt their badge until March of '63 if I remember correctly. As you know our impression will most often be late '62 early '63. So, I guess the next question would be if they wore the badges before they were "official." I would imagine if the regs did not dictate the wearing of badges they wouldn't have.

[Goat]

Mr. Tittle-
They would not have worn a badge before March/April of '63, because they hadn't even been designed yet. The only outfit who would have worn a "corps" badge would have been Kearny's old division of the 3rd Corps, who wore a red square, later diamond, at Kearny's insistance. This was the actual birth of the Corps badge concept.

YOS
R. Willis

[Charles Heath]

Morgan, for a good general purpose primer on Army corps badges, dust off your handy copy of Billings' Hardtack & Coffee and check out pages 250 through 268, and then your copy of the CRRC2 -- pages 17 through 24, as written by that "Goat" feller.

[Dignann]

Here is the order, as it appears in the Official Records, Series I, Vol. XXV, Part 2, p. 152:

CIRCULAR.]
HEADQUARTERS ARMY OF THE POTOMAC,
March 21, 1863.
For the purpose of ready recognition of corps and divisions in this army and to prevent injustice by reports of straggling and misconduct through mistake as to its organization, the chief quartermaster will furnish without delay the following badges, to be worn by the officers and enlisted men of all the regiments of the various corps mentioned. They will be securely fastened upon the center of the top of the cap.

Inspecting officers will at all inspections see that these badges are worn as designated:

First Corps, a sphere--First Division, red; Second, white; Third, blue.
Second Corps, trefoil--First Division, red; Second, white; Third, blue.
Third Corps, lozenge---First Division, red; Second, white; Third, blue.
Fifth Corps, Maltese cross--First Division, red; Second, white; Third, blue.
Sixth Corps, cross--First Division, red; Second, white; Third, blue. (Light Division, green. )
Eleventh Corps, crescent-First Division, red; Second, white; Third, blue.
Twelfth Corps, star--First division, red; Second, white; Third, blue.

The sizes and colors will be according to pattern.
By command of Major-General Hooker:
S. WILLIAMS,
Assistant Adjutant-General,


Following the Battle of Chancellorsville, General Order No. 53 was issued. In it, the cavalry, two infantry regiments and the Provisional Brigade are mentioned as the only commands without badges in the Army of the Potomac. An excerpt from the Official Records, Series I, Volume XXV, Part 2, p. 471 follows:

GENERAL ORDERS, No. 53.HEADQUARTERS ARMY OF THE POTOMAC,
Camp near Falmouth, Va., May 12, 1863.
IX. The badges worn by the troops, when lost or torn off, must be immediately replaced.

The officers of the staff on duty at these headquarters will wear a badge according to pattern in the assistant adjutant-general's office.

The only troops without badges are the cavalry, the Eighth Infantry, and Ninety-third New York Volunteers, on duty at headquarters, and the Provisional Brigade at Aquia and on the railroad.

Provost-marshals will arrest as stragglers all other troops found without badges, and return them to their commands under guard.

By command of Major-General Hooker:
S. WILLIAMS,
Assistant Adjutant-General.


It seems to me, that the regulars would have worn a badge. The only reason the 8th US Infantry and the 93rd New York Infantry would not have worn them at the time General Order 53 was issued, was that they were assigned to HQ. Upon returning to their parent brigades, I would bet they sewed their respective badges back on.

Eric

[TheRegularsDrummerCo.H]

During the Battle of Gettysburg the 4th and 2nd US had the 5th Corps White Maltese cross and they also had it at Cedar Creek and I am sure a few others.

Adam Ward

[Darrell Cochran]

The Regulars in the AOP did wear the V Corps badge, although - like a lot of information about the Regular infantry - how extensive the practice was remains clouded by the mists of time. There just aren't a lot of photos of Regular infantry soldiers around for us to go by.

But we do have some evidence. For example, if you can get your hands on Army Blue: The Uniform of Uncle Sam's Regulars, in the chapter on the Civil War you will find a photograph of a Hardee hat worn by a member of Company F, Third US Infantry ... And it can be identified as such by the huge white Maltese cross on the side, along with the bugle, 3, and F on the front - The only "3" in that division of the V Corps was the Third US.

What surprised me most about seeing that was not so much the corps badge, but the fact that any Regular soldier was still wearing a Hardee hat that late in the war - For years we'd been under the impression (no pun intended) that the Regulars packed up all that stuff in the spring of 62 and left it behind when they departed for the Peninsula. And we got that impression from one Cpl. Augustus C. Meyers of the 2nd US, who said that after March 1862 "they never saw [the fancy uniform items] again" after the brigade left Washington.