Knapsacks & Blanket Rolls Redeux [Archive] - Authentic Campaigner Website & Forums

vbetts

01-08-2004, 05:31 PM

Can also be a tied quilt, or perhaps a whole cloth quilt (not pieced). As your soldier mentioned, they could get heavy, especially wet, so were preferred for home and hospital rather than on the march, where wool blankets were best.

[Little Rock] Old-Line Democrat, January 5, 1860, p. 4, c. 3
Cotton Laps! Cotton Laps!
For making quilts and comforts, for sale very low, by Brugman & Co.
Oct. 13, 1859.

[Little Rock] Arkansas True Democrat, July 25, 1861, p. 2, c, 3
An Appeal to the Women of Arkansas.
It has been wisely suggested by a contemporary that the patriotic women of the country should knit socks for the volunteers.
In addition to this we beg leave to call the attention of the true hearted women of the country to some other points.
There will be, if the war continues, a scarcity of blankets, woolen cloth, flannel, etc. These our soldiers will need. As regards blankets, each family can spare some. Those who stay at home can use counterpanes and comforts. The latter are easily and cheaply made, are warm and will supply the places of blankets in the house.—.....

[Little Rock] Arkansas True Democrat, August 22, 1861, p. 1, c.6
Clothing for the Soldiers—Circular
Letter from the Military Board.
Office Military Board, } Little Rock, August 20, 1861. }
. . . Blankets are greatly needed and are indispensable to the comfort of our soldiers. In many instances domestic blankets may be manufactured. In others they may be supplied by a division of the articles of that kind which families have provided for themselves. There is scarcely a house in the State in which there is not an excess of bed-clothing. It is not making too great a call on the patriotism of the county, at a time like this, to ask that the soldiers be supplied from this surplus and abundance. Where blankets cannot be supplied comforts may be substituted; but brankets [sic] are much preferred. . . .

[Marshall] Texas Republican, August 24, 1861, p. 1, c. 5-6
Letter from Virginia.
Richmond, Va., August 6th, 1861.
R. W. Loughery, Esq.,
. . . Whatever may be our means to buy them—blankets are going to be hard to get for our soldiers next fall. Let me make a suggestion to our ladies. Every household has several blankets, cotton is plenty, and calico is comparatively cheap. Let our ladies go at once to manufacturing "comforts" for home use and send the blankets to the soldiers....

Mobile Register and Advertiser, August 24, 1861, p. 3, c. 1
Cotton Batting for Comforts.
All persons wishing to make COMFORTS for Winter Covering, cam obtain COTTON BATTING for the same at the Rooms of the MILITARY AID SOCIETY, No. 75 North Conception, between State and Congress streets.
Those who prefer to pay the Society for the BATTING, can do so, otherwise it will be furnished free of charge.
aug11 1m AD. Chaudron, Secretary.

Daily Chronicle & Sentinel [Augusta, Ga.], August 31, 1861, p. 2, c. 1-2
Remember the Soldier.
. . . The weather has recently been very wet in Virginia, and it is even now getting quite cool, especially in the mountains. And right now the soldiers need good blankets and flannel shirts almost as much as they every will. . . .
It has been urged that as blankets are very scarce, if indeed it be possible to buy them at all, the people should give their own to the soldiers. We agree to this heartily, and when families can not afford to give them, let them sell their blankets. Every family can readily furnish from one to half a dozen, and use comforts, or something of that sort for themselves. Blankets are the only covering that will answer for the soldier in camp, and these ought to be lined with oil-cloth if possible. Comforts, sheets, coverlets and such like, should be contributed for hospital purposes, but the blankets alone for the soldiers in service. Remember the soldier, and provide liberally and fully for all the wants of those who are fighting for us who stay at home.

Natchez Daily Courier, September 11, 1861, p. 1, c. 2
The committee appointed by the ladies of Baton Rouge, La., to procure blankets for the use of the army, reported 700 as the result of their explorations within the limits of that city--besides many quilts and comforters which have been contributed.

Natchez Daily Courier, September 17, 1861, p. 1, c. 1
We learn that the Military Aid Society has shipped over 1000 lined blankets to the seat of war in Virginia, and that they have over one thousand yet on hand to line. They will be sent off as soon as they are made ready.
Although our people have been liberal--extremely so--in supplying the societies with blankets, there are still more wanted. Bring them forth, and place comforts on your own beds in their stead. We would suggest to the ladies that cotton batting can be obtained at Jackson; a most excellent and convenient article for making comforts.

The Southern Watchman [Athens, Ga.], September 18, 1861, p. 3, c. 1
[left edge cut off, but gives dimensions for hospital shirts, short bed gowns, cotton drawers, comforts (42x78), pillow sacks, mattress sacks--can get copy from original???]

Albany [Ga.] Patriot, November 14, 1861, p. 3, c. 1
To the Ladies of the different Societies, and Also to the Ladies of Dougherty County, Generally.
I have been requested by Capt. W. J. Lawton to set before you the wants of his Company, and not having the time and convenience to visit you at your homes, therefore take this method of informing you that I am authorized by Capt. Lawton to procure the materials for making up 85 comforters for his men. Blankets are too short and costly, and do not cover the wants of the soldiers--hence it was determined to have comforters made in their stead.--It was thought by us that osnaburgs would be the best material for making them, but I am informed through the ladies that calico is best. It shall therefore be left with them to choose the best goods for the purpose. Now a comforter should be six feet in length, and two breadths in width, less than that will not answer. Each and every lady wishing to engage in this noble work can procure the materials in Albany, having them charged to Capt. W. J. Lawton, who has given me the assurance that he will settle all such claims. It is needless for me to say more on the subject, for I feel assured that the [fold] fact that these things are absolutely wanted by the brave men who are enduring every thing for the protection of our homes and firesides, will be sufficient to engage the patriotic needle of every lady in Doughterty county.
D. F. Bailey.

[Little Rock] Arkansas True Democrat, August 6, 1862, p. 1, c. 6-7
To the Ladies.
Office, Medical Director, Trans Miss. Dist., }
Little Rock, July 30th, 1862. }
To promote the recovery of sick soldiers in Hospitals, they must have better and more cleanly bed clothing than the blankets used by them in camp. With this view, the undersigned earnestly solicits the ladies, every where throughout the district, to manufacture and send to Dr. Silverberg, Medical Purveyor at this place, the largest quantity possible, of Cotton Goods, suitable for Comforts and Sheets, the former to be dyed, as white is not a proper color. Reasonable prices will be paid promptly on delivery.
James M. Keller,
Aug. 6.

Southern Confederacy [Atlanta, Ga.], November 1, 1862, p. 2, c. 2
The Women! Their Unbounded Patriotism!
The Chattanooga Rebel of the 30th says:
We are authorized to state that the ladies of Chattanooga will use their surplus dresses in making comforts for the soldier, if they can get cotton. They are willing to pay for it if any person will furnish them what they want for this purpose. Will not the men furnish the cotton without requiring the ladies to pay for it?
Now, wont somebody in Atlanta send a bale or two of cotton up to the ladies of Chattanooga, by Express, to-day?

[Little Rock] Arkansas True Democrat, November 12, 1862, p. 1, c. 3
Wanted—300 Bed Comforts for the use of the Army, for which a good price will be paid. The seller to furnish everything. For further particulars apply to E. Silverberg, Medical Purveyor, Little Rock, Ark.

Vicki Betts
vbetts@gower.net

BorderReb

01-08-2004, 05:43 PM

I am no help on deminsions, but would like to know those period recepies.

ThehosGendar

01-08-2004, 05:48 PM

From Godey's Lady's Book, September 1857:

http://www.3nj.org/comforter.jpg

10TnVI

01-08-2004, 06:11 PM

Based on the internal references,i.e- It's heavy, meant for both him and his pard, and it's mention is followed by a discussion of the blankets he had sold -I think it's a pretty sure bet he is referring to a large thick quilt of some kind used on the bed.
Heck, In my neck of the woods the term comforter is still used to refere to a usually down filled bed cover used in winter.

Ridge Runner

01-08-2004, 06:14 PM

I don't know of any period references but I've been told the heavy blanket on my bed is a comfort, or comforter! Now this is totally modern, however it had to come from somewhere.

Roman Fox

Eric Burke

01-08-2004, 06:17 PM

Hah! Comforter ... never thought about that. Thanks guys!

va-yank

01-08-2004, 07:58 PM

"Comforter" is pretty common in the MidWest. Is it a Southern term also?

Thunderation. This could open up a whole discussion of regional expressions. Which would be interesting.

If anyone is interested in starting a new thread on that topic, please do. Regional American idioms are supposed to be quickly vanishing.

Livingston Guards

01-09-2004, 01:18 AM

I would call 10 mil in the bank a comfort but I am sure it refers to cotton blankets stuffed with insulation. Here are few references Vicky didn't post...

TEXAS REPUBLICAN [Marshall, TX] September 21, 1861, p. 2, c. 1

We hope that every family in Harrison county will contribute every blanket they can spare to our noble, self-sacrificing, brave volunteers. Supply their places with comforts, and send in the blankets without delay. Winter is nearly upon us, and our soldiers are stationed in rigorous latitudes, where they will need every blanket we can send them. It will never do for those at home to be surrounded with every comfort, and our friends abroad, engaged in the defense of all that we hold dear, to be suffering. Let us make them feel that our hearts are with them and the glorious cause which they are defending, and that all that we possess is at the service of our country.

TEXAS REPUBLICAN [Marshall, TX], November 8, 1862, p. 1, c. 5

A lady of this place sends us the following welcome communication: Who Will Help?

Our soldiers are sadly in need of blankets, or something to shield them from the severity of the coming winter. I can furnish material for several comforts, but need the cotton. If some of the planters will furnish this, (and a few pounds from your ten, twenty, fifty, or hundred bales would not be missed) much might be done to relieve the sufferings of our brave soldiers during the approaching winter. Everybody keeps a scrap bag, and from their contents, much could be put into use in this way. Besides this, old calico or worsted dresses, cloth, linsey, old sheets, or domestic of any kind, can be manufactured into comforts, which when quilted will last at least during one winter. In your lumber rooms and closets, being destroyed by moth, there is much which your dexterous fingers could fashion into a comfort. No matter if faded and ugly, they will do. If too light, from the wood materials for dying can be procured, and garments too much worn for other use will answer the purpose well. The work to make them is trifling—four ladies can complete three in a day; and where so much might be done, it is not our privilege, as well as our duty to work with willing hearts and hands.

Who will furnish the cotton? It can be left at almost any public house in town, convenient to all who are willing to aid. I will undertake to make six at east to begin with, and hope that everybody will aid in the cause, and we may soon have a supply sufficient for the comfort of our soldiers, who will be subject to almost every exposure of winter. Already the severity of the cold is telling upon the health of our thinly-clad troops in Virginia, Kentucky, and Arkansas, many of whom have not a blanket to cover them, when they seek the cold hard earth for rest, after days of marching and toil. Who will, or rather who will not help? Let everybody go to work with a will, and while we repose upon downy beds at home, the brave volunteer will bless us as he wraps his weary limbs our hands have furnished, and feel that though exiled he is still remembered, still cherished. All are our brothers and friends. Who would not labor to alleviate the sufferings or promote the happiness and welfare of a brother?

H. A. P.
__________________________________________________ ______________

Vicky, the Natchez Daily Courier is not a paper I have read. Do you remember anything in that one about the Texas troops in Virginia?

Va-Yank, for Southern word usage, a source I find useful is the http://docsouth.unc.edu website. Just do a key word search and you can see just how prevalent a word or phrase was in the 19th century south.

DougCooper

01-09-2004, 01:44 AM

Most parts of the country call a down or cotton filled blanket a "comforter" which is long for "comfort." It's an insulation thing - makes em warmer...but a royal pain when it rains. Would love to see photos of an original.

vbetts

01-09-2004, 09:16 AM

Kevin--

Right off hand, I don't recall anything about Texas troops in Virginia in the Natchez Daily Courier, but I'm mostly looking for civilian information, or military material culture stuff (blankets, shoes, pharmaceuticals, flags, etc.). And I confess, I'm not as thorough on information out of Virginia because I figure other people are covering Virginia in great detail. I'll pick up more Western Theatre information, and *much* more Trans-Mississippi stuff, because I figure it's more likely to have been overlooked.

Vicki Betts
vbetts@gower.net

tarwater_mess

01-09-2004, 10:30 AM

My grandmother used to call her quilts "comforters" They were HEAVY, and being made with a wool blanket sandwiched between two quilts, yarns tied and knotted to hold it all together.

privstull

01-09-2004, 11:16 AM

I was wondering the same thing a few months ago and asked the same question. Below is information given on the old website. If you have any other questions about how to make one send me an email.

Size: According to the 1865 Quartermaster's Manual:

"The water proof blanket for infantry, to be 46 inches wide by 71 inches long,..."

A quick review of historical documents and museum specimens shows variations of several inches (these can be tricky, as some of those based upon the USS MAPLE LEAF specimens have damaged or deteriorated edges), such as:

57.0 X 32.0
70.0 X 47.0
69.50 X 32.75
62.0 X 44.0
65.04 X 42.0
68.5 X 42.25
72.0 X 42.25
72.0 X 44.25

Spacing of Grommets: The Quartermaster Manual states:

"...grommets, in all cases, to be 1 inch from the centre of the grommets to the edge of the blanket on one side and end, and 2 inches from the other side and end. The grommets must be stayed, and be placed equi-distant, so as to match, and be made of brass."

Number and spacing between grommets on originals varies slightly, generally from 13-14 inches (14 inches being mentioned for ponchos).

Two blankets recovered from the MAPLE LEAF had 18 each, 6 along one edge, 8 along the other edge, and 2 on each end.

A Minnesota Historical Society poncho has 16 at equal distance around the perimeter as per the QM specs. However, they are spaced on the average 13.25 inches along the sides and 15 inches along the edges- in "violation" of the specs' max of 14 inches.

"Contrary" to the specs, some of the MAPLE LEAF blankets have two pairs of spaced grommets on one side. Some believe this was a variation or idea that allowed for the blanket to be worn as a poncho, as the paired grommets are called for the 1889 QM Manual to allow it to be worn as a cape.

Stonewall_Greyfox

01-09-2004, 02:05 PM

Ryan,

I was curious as to what type of grommets to use, and also what type of canvas/ducking would be appropriate?

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

I was wondering the same thing a few months ago and asked the same question. Below is information given on the old website. If you have any other questions about how to make one send me an email.

Size: According to the 1865 Quartermaster's Manual:

"The water proof blanket for infantry, to be 46 inches wide by 71 inches long,..."

A quick review of historical documents and museum specimens shows variations of several inches (these can be tricky, as some of those based upon the USS MAPLE LEAF specimens have damaged or deteriorated edges), such as:

57.0 X 32.0
70.0 X 47.0
69.50 X 32.75
62.0 X 44.0
65.04 X 42.0
68.5 X 42.25
72.0 X 42.25
72.0 X 44.25

Spacing of Grommets: The Quartermaster Manual states:

"...grommets, in all cases, to be 1 inch from the centre of the grommets to the edge of the blanket on one side and end, and 2 inches from the other side and end. The grommets must be stayed, and be placed equi-distant, so as to match, and be made of brass."

Number and spacing between grommets on originals varies slightly, generally from 13-14 inches (14 inches being mentioned for ponchos).

Two blankets recovered from the MAPLE LEAF had 18 each, 6 along one edge, 8 along the other edge, and 2 on each end.

A Minnesota Historical Society poncho has 16 at equal distance around the perimeter as per the QM specs. However, they are spaced on the average 13.25 inches along the sides and 15 inches along the edges- in "violation" of the specs' max of 14 inches.

"Contrary" to the specs, some of the MAPLE LEAF blankets have two pairs of spaced grommets on one side. Some believe this was a variation or idea that allowed for the blanket to be worn as a poncho, as the paired grommets are called for the 1889 QM Manual to allow it to be worn as a cape.

privstull

01-09-2004, 02:28 PM

Paul,

Though you could use Walmart of Home Depot type of Canvas, I would recommend using the canvas offered at Skillet Licker. Their medium weight canvas would be the best type to use. Also, Skillet Licker grommets would be the correct ones to go with. I got mine from there and they are exelent. They look just like the ones in Echos of Glory. If you have any other questions of how to paint it or anything else, let me know. Hope this helps.

Stonewall_Greyfox

01-09-2004, 03:47 PM

Ryan,

Do you have pictures? And seeing as this will be my first time trying this any directions you have would be greatly appreciated.

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

Paul,

Though you could use Walmart of Home Depot type of Canvas, I would recommend using the canvas offered at Skillet Licker. Their medium weight canvas would be the best type to use. Also, Skillet Licker grommets would be the correct ones to go with. I got mine from there and they are exelent. They look just like the ones in Echos of Glory. If you have any other questions of how to paint it or anything else, let me know. Hope this helps.

Vuhginyuh

01-09-2004, 10:13 PM

I have an original ground cloth. It is good quality, heavy, tightly woven unbleached linen. The finish is dry and flakey but still quite stout in some areas. The textile and the finish are similar to the type used in NC cartridge box slings.

It has hand-whipped eyelets in each corner. The cloth is 70 inches long and 39 1/2 inches wide. Two 20' wide (selvedge edge to selvedge edge) runs are used.

There is a flat (unfolded) 1/2 inch seam down the center with two rows of tight hand top stitching. The sides are unhemmed selvedge edge. The top and bottom edge are double felled and tacked with a tight blind stitch similar to a miliner's stitch.

The eyelets are reinforced with a linen that seems to be the same as the body with folded, whipped edges.

Enscribed in one corner ''N B Parker''
It has a strong 27 NCT provenance.

privstull

01-09-2004, 10:45 PM

The groundcloth should look similar to the one just described. I apologize that I do not have any pictures. I copied mine to an extent like the one of echos of glory at first, and then, after seeing a real one from a private collection I made it from that.

The measurements of mine are alittle less than 46X71, though any slight change in measurements would still be period. One of the things that puzzled me was the placement of the grommets. I first hemmed all of the edges like the original, first folding the painted side about an inch on the unpainted side and the folding alittle bit more under that fold to prevent unwraveling that might occur and then sewed it all the way around the outside edges. Then I put the grommets on. There should be one grommet on each corner after you hem it, then depending on how many grommets you have, you can add on as many as you'd like up to about 14 making 18 total. Though the Quartermaster manual says to have around 18, many of the originals have around 14 to 16. However, like I said, you could do some research or do it by how the Quatermaster manual states. Lastly, the texture of the groundcloth can varry. Some people might use more linseed oil or less lamp black so to get the right texture you have to experiment. I tried to make mine look as close to the one on Echos of Glory as I could and was not that far off. When I was making mine for the first time I too looked for pictures of reproductions but found close to none. Th only one that I found that shows a brief image was at www.gvtc.com/~sjlrbal/oilcloths.htm or the homefront. Hope some of this information can atleast put a small image in your head of what it looks like.

Clark Badgett

01-10-2004, 12:51 AM

I've always found the correct 1/4" sized grommets at about any sewing shop. they are labeled as large eyelets, and pretty cheap.

Stonewall_Greyfox

01-10-2004, 02:14 AM

Ryan,

OK....quick question, where do I get Lamp Black? Is is the same a Japanned Dryer and if so where do I get that? Getting Linseed Oil, should I go ahead and buy the Boiled Linseed Oil? Or buy Linseed Oil Myself? And then with the Mineral Spirits/Turpentine how does that mix into the solution?

Thanks,

Paul B. Boulden Jr.
RAH VA MIL '04

The groundcloth should look similar to the one just described. I apologize that I do not have any pictures. I copied mine to an extent like the one of echos of glory at first, and then, after seeing a real one from a private collection I made it from that.

The measurements of mine are alittle less than 46X71, though any slight change in measurements would still be period. One of the things that puzzled me was the placement of the grommets. I first hemmed all of the edges like the original, first folding the painted side about an inch on the unpainted side and the folding alittle bit more under that fold to prevent unwraveling that might occur and then sewed it all the way around the outside edges. Then I put the grommets on. There should be one grommet on each corner after you hem it, then depending on how many grommets you have, you can add on as many as you'd like up to about 14 making 18 total. Though the Quartermaster manual says to have around 18, many of the originals have around 14 to 16. However, like I said, you could do some research or do it by how the Quatermaster manual states. Lastly, the texture of the groundcloth can varry. Some people might use more linseed oil or less lamp black so to get the right texture you have to experiment. I tried to make mine look as close to the one on Echos of Glory as I could and was not that far off. When I was making mine for the first time I too looked for pictures of reproductions but found close to none. Th only one that I found that shows a brief image was at www.gvtc.com/~sjlrbal/oilcloths.htm or the homefront. Hope some of this information can atleast put a small image in your head of what it looks like.

Minieball577

01-10-2004, 02:39 AM

Ryan,

OK....quick question, where do I get Lamp Black? Is is the same a Japanned Dryer and if so where do I get that? Getting Linseed Oil, should I go ahead and buy the Boiled Linseed Oil? Or buy Linseed Oil Myself? And then with the Mineral Spirits/Turpentine how does that mix into the solution?

Thanks,

Paul B. Boulden Jr.
RAH VA MIL '04

Lamp Black is nothing more than the black carbon emitted by an oil burning lamp. You can either capture your own by using a funnel (I'm not kidding) or purchase "pigment powder" which is carbon, from an online source such as www.realmilkpaint.com

You can buy Japan Dryer from any (artistic) painters supply store, art store. This is used to shorten the drying of the oil based paint. Too much dryer will ruin your paint though, and could actually extend drying time.

I have used boiled linseed oil, which is what as I understand one of the original formula's used. You can buy it from your local hardware. California says it may cause birth defects, don't drink it.

It should however be noted that artistic oil paints used in painting normal canvases etc, especially the color "Lamp Black" is made with pure Linseed oil, and Pure Carbon, and is the same as what you are going to be making, except in a paste form. It would be the more expensive route, but you could buy the artistic oils and thin it with linseed oil for use on painted cloth.

Also you should notice that the paint on originals, depending on the material used, bled through the aticle very little. In other words, the paint stayed on the painted side, mostly.

Anyway, all of this was passed on to me by a very well studied friend, and has worked with marvelous results. Good luck.

privstull

01-10-2004, 11:45 AM

The lamp black was really the only hard thing for me to get my hands on. I have heard you can get it at an arts and crafts store in a tube, but I got mine at Home Depot. First time I went there, they could not give it to me because they only use it for mixing other paints. The second time though I put up an argument so they sold me a small can. It is known as Black Oil Pigment mostly, but on my can it says lamp black. I used the period recipe from the website you posted on the top, and followed the directions. I bought Boiled Linseed Oil, Japan Dryer, and Mineral Spirits. All of these should be able to find at Lowe's or Home Depot. From there on I to an extent followed the recipe and experimented on a scrap piece of canvas. This was awhile back so im not entirely sure what I did differently, but one of things was that I added in more Boiled Linseed Oil than said on the recipe that. On the period recipe it also says a way to make a fluid made from cornstarch, boiled water, and cold water. I would highly recommened doing that first and do it as it says to help prevent leak through the canvas, because lamp black is alot stronger than black latex paint.

I have not tried this way, but I have heard that you get a really good turnout if you mix only lamp black and boiled linseed oil. Your supposed to put mostly linseed oil and then add in lamp black until it becomes a solid black color. Then paint on a light shade of that color and after it drys add on repeated coats to make it shiny. Like I said, I have not tried this but have heard that it comes out with exelent results. But if you want to try out the first way mentioned, then just follow the directions given in the period recipe and if you do not like your results then you can experiement with the ingredients. Hope this helps.

Vuhginyuh

01-10-2004, 05:49 PM

FOLLOW-UP TO MY EARLIER POST...

An old hardware store here in Wilmington has plenty of lampblack. It comes in a yellow tube but I can't recall the name. I'll get the brand and post it asap.
They will mail it if anyone is interested...
My dad and some guys in the old 38th NC (the original jean-cloth guys;Bass, Bull, Tart, Wiles, Beall etc) copied the one we have back in the '80s. They heated unbleached linseed oil and mixed the lampblack in and then brushed it on. A second coat was applied with damar (sic?) varnish powder added to stiffen the mix. It perfectly replicated the old one.
It was not a smooth, easy application and the oil really bled through creating a mottled brown and black reverse.

Masked Battery

01-10-2004, 11:39 PM

Mr. Beall-- I sent you a message; please let me know if you received it.

Thanks.

2RIVB

01-16-2004, 12:49 PM

In the following letter, this gentleman states that he had an India Rubber Pouch, instead of a knapsack. Anyone know what he is refering too? Also, if you can help me as to what he is talking about, do you have any idea where I could observe one of these itmes, if there are any still around.

Washington, D. C., April 28, 1861.

Dear Sir:
You have probably seen in the papers, that Gov. Sprague offered his services with one thousand men, for the defence of the capitol, and your humble servant is consequently in Washington, having enlisted in the First LIght Infantry. We left Providence one week ago yesterday, arriving in New York, Sunday morning. In the afternoon we went on board the steamer "Costzacoalcos," and started for Washington, in company with the steamer Baltic, with the Massachusetts Fifth Regiment, and the R. R. Cuyler, with the Seventy-First of New York, and the Columbia with the Massachusetts Sixth or Eighth under convoy of the Harriet Lane, arriving at Annapolis on Wednesday, and quartering at the Naval School, that night. In the morning, we started to march for Washington, forty-four miles, the railroad having suffered serious injuries from the secessionists. We marched nineteen miles the first day, and bivouacked for the night. It was a splendid sight, our camp fires throwing their lurid flames heavenward, and our red blankets making a very picturesque scene. Scouting parties were out all night, as it was rumored we should be attacked, and perhaps should have been, had it not been for the larger number in the vicinity, there being 10,000 at Annapolis, when we left. Every man laid down on the grass, with his cartridge-box on, and his loaded musket by his side. The next morning, we parted at half-past four, without breakfast, and walked five miles to the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad, the having been repaired to this junction-thanks to the Massachusetts Regiment, who really deserve a great deal of credit. They have worked like tigers.

Our uniform is a blue flannel shirt or blouse, grey pants, felt hat, with one side turned up, and a brass eagle stuck in the side, red flannel blankets, and India-rubber pouches, instead of knap-sacks. When we started from Annapolis, each man carried three day's provisions, a canteen holding a quart of water, twenty rounds of cartridges, musket, &c., in all, about forty-pounds, and it was the hardest road to travel I ever saw, the sand being about six inches deep, most of the way. My feet were both blistered, and both shoulders black and blue, but we are now fast recovering from the fatigue of our journey, being quartered at the Patent Office, taking our meals at the United Sates Hotel. We breakfast at six, lunch in quarters at twelve, and dine at the hotel, at 5 P. M. There is no regiment here so well provided for, or so well cared for by its officers, who, by the way, are all Democrats, and all went through the Mexican War, two of whom, Col. Burnside and Major Solcum, are graduates of West Point. They do everything for the men, even to waiting upon the tables. Everything is furnished free of expense, even to stationary, pipes, tobacco, and our boots blackened! We have not been detailed for any special service, we expect to be as soon as we have ? recovered from our journey.

I am writing this on a stood, and if you want to read it to anybody, you had better copy it, that is, if you can read it yourself.

Ever your friend.

A. B.

1stMaine

01-16-2004, 01:31 PM

Comrade,
My first inclination, upon reading the description in context of the letter, is that he has simply misunderstood the word "poncho". I may certainly be mistaken in my assumption, but nonetheless feel it to be a plausible interpretation of his statement. Couple that with most images of the Rhode Islanders having blanket rolls, and I suspect that this might be the case.
respects,

2RIVB

01-16-2004, 02:02 PM

I get the feeling that he means pouches. He seems to be very well written, with few speeling errors.

hardtack1864

01-16-2004, 03:20 PM

He could be talking about an early war haversack since a haversack was not talked about in his letter/diary.

va-yank

01-16-2004, 03:40 PM

The uniform he describes sounds like a one-off state or local issue kit. He states pretty clearly "in place of a knapsack". The pouch may have been some private purchase substitute for hard-to-come-by government knapsacks. Which its understood were in especially short supply early in the war.

My answer is, I don't have a very precise visual idea of what item he is referring to. There seems to have been a profusion of patent items made from india rubber "for the soldier", shoes, gaiters, balaclavas, etc. early in the war. This could be something made in R.I. and nowhere else.

Just curious, are you looking to do a Rhode Island impression? :)

1stMaine

01-16-2004, 04:35 PM

Comrade Fred,
He's talking about the 1st Rhode Island. There was a blouse unique to Rhode Island called, interestingly nough, a Rhode Island Blouse. It's similar to the pullover blouse the Marines wore, sort of a "battle shirt" made of sack coat material. very comfortable, and very useful and easy to make. They also had red blankets, and Ambrose Burnside, who helped to raise these troops and train and equip them, opted for blanket rolls instead of knapsacks, due to his interest in light infantry. They wore the issue army hat, looped up with the eagle badge, because everyone at the time associated that hat with European light infantryment, sort of the fore-runner of the cowboy or bush hat.
It's because of Burnside's interest in blanket rolls and the comfort of his troops that I think the author may very well be talking about a poncho instead of a "pouch". It would also make sense in light of the lack of tents of a suitable pattern for them at this time. the shelter half was nearly a year away from it's first appearance, and the other patterns were a bit bulky to fall into line with Burnside's thoughts on light infantry.
Anyway, that's where I am coming from. The real arbiter would be, most likely, found in the AG reports of Rhode Island. If they are like Maine's, they tend to list all the initial issues to the regiments, and many have little sidebars of contracts let, etc.
Respects,

markj

01-16-2004, 04:58 PM

Hi,

Frankly, I was more intrigued with the man's mention of "Costzacoalcos." This is likely a tortured spelling of "Quetzelcoatl," which was the Aztec "Feathered Serpent" god.

>"It would also make sense in light of the lack of tents of a suitable pattern >for them at this time. the shelter half was nearly a year away from it's first >appearance, and the other patterns were a bit bulky to fall into line with >Burnside's thoughts on light infantry."

I'll have to check the 1861 War Department contractor listing but, actually as I recall, several thousand "tents d'abri" were ordered, and presumably delivered, at least as early as September 1861.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

1stMaine

01-16-2004, 05:04 PM

Comrade Mark,
I also noted that spelling of the Great Feathered Serpent's name. very interesting. You may be correct regarding the initial issue of the shelter tent. My statement is based upon the first accounts i have of issue to the AOP, which were in the spring of 1862. Some units may have gotten an earlier issue, but I haven't read of that yet. Another reason, I suppose, to purchase the Shelter Tent book:)
respects,

va-yank

01-16-2004, 05:24 PM

"Just curious, are you looking to do a Rhode Island impression? :)"

That was meant to be a joke of some kind. And I cannot now remember why or how I intended it to be funny.

Tim,

Yes, I had heard of the 1st R.I. and their famous pleated battle shirt. I didn't realize that the 1RI was the group he was referring to. You really want it to be a poncho, eh?

Wasn't it also the R.I. troops that had those collapsible derby/havelocks?

Also, they were the tiniest soldiers in the Union if I recall...

1stMaine

01-16-2004, 07:01 PM

Comrade,
Actually, I may very well be wrong in this regard, what with all the patent-this and patent-that soldier items that were flooding the markets, but who knows? I got the joke:) What's interesting is that on Burnside's estate in Bristol, there is a replica of "Burnside's Bridge" from Antietam. Popular fellow, and wealthy as well.
I'm not adamant about this letter writer making a mistake in translation, although, like I said, that would be my initial thought. I'm just having a bit of difficulty imagining what else it might be, pouch-wise, that would be useful. Then again, it could be the new prescription that I'm on.......
respects

hardtack1864

01-16-2004, 08:49 PM

Look at page 97 of EOG. Two men clearly are wearing shiney haversacks which seem to be made of rubber and those men are part of the 1st R.I. Question answerd.

1stMaine

01-16-2004, 09:39 PM

Comrade Sean,
It may well be that the answer is, in fact, an india-rubber haversack. That, however, still remains to be seen. If he's using a haversack in lieu of a knapsack, then where does he carry his rations? If it's something else entirely, then where is it? Not all answers are as cut and dried as you would have them. For example, the man clearly knows what a knapsack is and what that mode of conveyance is designed for. Does that not then suppose that he knows what a haversack is? If the latter is correct, then why not call it a haversack instead of a "pouch"?
I'm not trying to be cynical nor cause any heartburn, but simply applying reason to the subject. At this stage, there exists more than a single possible explanation for the item in question. None of us may lay claim to the correct answer based solely upon the one letter's descriptions and a single image. I have given a suggestion as to what it MIGHT be, and you have another, and someone else posits a third. Without additional detective work and further information, it must needs remain an educated guess.......
respects,

2RIVB

01-17-2004, 12:56 AM

The pleated blouses were what some of the officers wore. There were a couple different typees that the enlisted men had, mainly variations on collar type and pocket/no pocket.

My hypothesis is this, I feel the "pouch" may have been an india rubber haversack, or possibly even a smaller than average, single bag, knapsack. I turely feel he ment pouch, not poncho. The only real misspelling, which I was unaware of till it was pointed out, is the name of the aztec god, but what person would really know the speeling of that word, if they did not have a background of study in it.

My curriosity really has the best of me here, because, if there is one out there, I want to see it. If there is a pattern for it, I want it, and bottom line, if it was PEC, and there is one availible to copy, I WANT ONE!!! (little childish, but I love my toys).

2RIVB

01-18-2004, 02:00 AM

Echoes of Glory, pages 212 and 213:

Pvt. Edgar S. Yergason
22D Connecticut Infantry Regiment
Knapsack of Guta-percha lined canvas
Pg. 212, bottom right corner

Model 1853/55 Knapsack
71st New York Infantry Regiment
These nonrigid knapsacks of rubberized or painted canvas were the commonest style issued during the war. The straps could be hooked to the 1855 Rifleman's belt, or crossed on the chest
Pg. 213 upper left corner

What do you think?

2RIVB

01-21-2004, 03:10 AM

Is there perhaps an NJ ************, or Curt Schmidt out there who might be able to shed some light on this? Anyone else who might be knowledgable?

(named those names, due to the fact that they seem like likely sources for this whacky knowledge, that isn't so common among most of us)

JCbluegrassrifles

01-29-2004, 03:47 PM

<strike>Believe it or not, Jarnagin makes maybe the best rubber groundcloth. I know you want want painted cloth, but not too many vendors make that available. Contact Jarnagin for dimensions and gromet size, type. Also, another 'believe it or not,' James Country Merchantile makes the only good painted cloth groundcloths I've seen by a vendor. The guy there is very nice and I'm sure would have no problem helping you out. I know these are not the best of vendors and under other circumstances I would not recommend them. But give it a shot.
http://jarnaginco.com/catframe.html
http://www.jamescountry.com/frame/main_frame.html</strike>

Jim, please don't post links to unapproved vendors here. You yourself question their products in your post. An email to the party would suffice in this matter if you feel strongly in your recommendation. - Mike Chapman

Vuhginyuh

01-29-2004, 04:22 PM

I posted this a while back.
(Please note that a similar cloth here in NC is six inches wider, roughly 46" and one run wide.)

I have an original ground cloth. It is good quality, heavy, tightly woven unbleached linen. The finish is dry and flakey but still quite stout in some areas. The textile and the finish are similar to the type used in NC cartridge box slings.

It has hand-whipped eyelets in each corner. The cloth is 70 inches long and 39 1/2 inches wide. Two 20' wide (selvedge edge to selvedge edge) runs are used.

There is a flat (unfolded) 1/2 inch seam down the center with two rows of tight hand top stitching. The sides are unhemmed selvedge edge. The top and bottom edge are double felled and tacked with a tight blind stitch similar to a miliner's stitch.

The eyelets are reinforced with a linen that seems to be the same as the body with folded, whipped edges.

Enscribed in one corner ''N B Parker''
It has a strong Co A, 27 NCT provenance.

smithjub

01-31-2004, 04:31 AM

James the Haggard Ranger

01-31-2004, 11:30 AM

Which would be more appropriate for a junior staff officer to use as raingear; a gum blanket hooked about the shoulders, or a poncho? If anyone wants to throw in their two cents I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!

Here is a stab at it,

First it depends on whether or not you are a Union or Confederate junior staff officer. Next I hope you have a horse, unless you are a company adjutant, because staff officers were always mounted from the regimental level on up.

The first thing to remember is so called Civil War rain gear was not always that effective at keeping one dry especially in heavy rain, so expect to get wet if out in the rain at an event. Learn to live with the idea if it rains you will get wet that is if you are at a campaigner event.

The most important thing to do first is research the unit and even if possible the staff officer you might be portraying. Find out what they carried first, because that is what you must carry. You may find out that they may not have even had rain gear.

However, if you cannot find any historical evidence, then here are a few ideas.

If your a Confederate get a properly made painted ground cloth with only a rare chance of having a Talma, painted coat, if you are a Major or higher.

As for a Federal then it is not too unrealistic to use a Talma. The other option would be a poncho because you are supposed to be mounted.

The one thing to remember is that Civil War soldiers seemed to prefer keeping their gear dry while they themselves got wet it was very hot in the summer. Life is better if you have a dry shirt, dry underwear, and dry socks to change into after a rain rather than trying to keep everything dry which of couse is almost impossible.

Hope this helps,

James Wooten

GreencoatCross

01-31-2004, 02:36 PM

I've read several accounts from the same regiment (1st U.S.S.S.) of enlisted men actually "going in" with their comrades to buy rubbierized talmas. It seemed from the diary that I read that two men would buy it and they'd simply swap the talma back and forth when it was bad out. From what I gathered though it looked like they used it to cover over brush shelters most of the time!

In the same regiment, Rudolph Aschmann, the captain of the all-German/Swiss Company A, carried a "coutchouc" coat. For a while I didn't know what he was talking about but I realized that "coutchouc" is the French word for rubber! Aschmann wore his rubberized coat throughout 1864 and had several bullet holes cut in it during a recon his company was performing near Petersburg later that same year (he also recieved holes in his canteen and haversack!).

I also just remembered that Captain Charles Stevens, Co. G 1st U.S.S.S., noted in a letter that he was using a poncho on campaign shortly before being assigned to be a staff officer.

Brian White

Robert Braun

02-03-2004, 04:10 PM

Then, as now, officers bought their clothing and equipage. Hence, personal preference blended with availability would dictate which item you choose.

I would suggest, however, that one's choice might mirror the item issued to the men of the company... as that was certainly available.

Bob.

pops

03-07-2004, 01:22 PM

hireddutchcutthroat

03-07-2004, 01:32 PM

could someone tell me why most everything I have read talks about the confederate army and their blanket rolls,but from what I am getting from the A/C posting of the O.R.s knapsacks were readly available,is this just another myth along with the ragged rebel.

What are you reading? Many letters and diaries that I have read speak of knapsacks in the AoT. The period writtings (ORs and others) also back up large numbers of Knapsacks being made in the south, and thousands being imported from England and France. Hoods division reported in March 1864 13,000 knapsacks on hand, and Hardees Corps reported in April of 1864 to have 12,610 knapsacks on hand. Be very aware that many post war CS accounts were written with the "Ragged Rebel" agenda in mind.

Vuhginyuh

03-07-2004, 01:36 PM

pops

03-07-2004, 01:41 PM

Robert,I am curretly reading The Life Of Johnny Reb which states that after the firt year of the war knapsacks had comparatively little use p.306.Which is why I asked this question I have read other post and the O.R.s am I lost here just wanted to know which is correct

BishopLynch

03-07-2004, 01:52 PM

Darwin,
Yes this is a myth that the Confederate army did not have knapsacks. I was just "informed" last summer by a know it all that it would be wrong to carry a knapsack at Gettysburg if portraying a Confederate because knapsack were an early war thing. This is a bunch of b/s. There are numerous surviving knapsacks and pictures of confederates with knapsacks where we can see that the Confederate Army carried and had knapsacks available. There are surviving originals that were picked up by Federal soldiers of dead rebs at Petersburg and later. Regimental supply records indicate requests for knapsacks and those on hand. Echoes of Glory has quite a few knapsacks that were of Southern manufacture, or imported from England or France. An example of southern manufacture would be the Kibbler pack, or the Pritchard pack. The Kibbler is similar in design to a pack produced during the Mexican war, and there is evidence of several variations being produced in the South for the army. The Pritchard pack was picked up after the Battle of Williamsburg in May of 1862. The Richmond Depot produced knapsacks similar to the Pritchard pack, one which was picked up at Sharpsburg in September of 1862. Many knapsacks were produced by Issac & Campbell of London and run through the blockade to supply the South. While it is true that many of the Confederates, as well as Federal soldiers wore blanket rolls, this did not mean that they did not have them. For those who insist otherwise, or say that it was an early war thing, i think that the ace in the hand are the originals picked up at Petersburg and other late war battles. These people need to do a little more research instead of stating their "gut" feelings. Hope this helps you out, I know its very general but its a start.

BrianHicks

03-07-2004, 02:00 PM

It would appear that there is no definitive rule on this (unless you are doing an impression of a specific unit, at a specific time/battle for which their is a definitive reference which clearly details what the majority of the unit carried).

As you could see from the post titled Accoutrements in the Army of Tennessee in the Authentic Discussions folder, the official records indicate that at most times, at least two thirds (or more) of the number of rifles in the unit also had a knapsack to go with it... and this seems to have been consistent form 1861 through at least April of 1864.

Was the Army of Northern Virginia better supplied than the Army of Tennessee? From everything I've ever seen or heard, the answer is supposed to be yes. So... is there a case for the blanket roll getting more mentions in personal recollections and letters because they were something out of the ordinary and not taken for granted? I don't know. All we have to go on are the original source documents, and some times different source documents contradict other source documents.

Vuhginyuh

03-07-2004, 02:07 PM

I'm sure this will raise the hackles of several folks, but I never put much faith in the 1943 publication ...Johnny Reb.

I have always thought it reflected the above mentioned ''mythology'' of the ill-clothed, starving, barefoot Confederate and used it as an excuse as to why the South really lost the war.

The now easily available and researched primary sources should always be the benchmark.

hireddutchcutthroat

03-07-2004, 02:17 PM

If you look carefully at these images, you will note that they all have (mostly Federal) knapsacks.

bonniegreenflag

03-07-2004, 07:39 PM

hireddutchcutthroat

03-07-2004, 08:06 PM

While I believe that knapsacks were readily available, I also think that many soldiers ditched them for a blankett roll, on both sides. My personal preference is the blankett roll, because I find it more comfortable. I can carry everything I can carry with a knapsack. The only time it hinders me is in the firing line, but if its rolled tightly its not too bad.

Andrew McQuillen

Andrew

I agree that blanketrolls were used. But I for one cannot stand blanket rolls, and would rather be set on fire than use one. I am shure that US and CS soldiers would shared both of our opinions.

The fact is knapsacks were issued in great numbers on both sides and all theatrers throughout the war and were not as some people claim thrown out in mass on January 1st 1862.

justthemiller

03-08-2004, 08:45 AM

Hello All,

The use of knapsacks by any soldier on either side of the conflict should not be a problem so long as one considers certain factors. I believe that the use of knapsacks would be cyclical for anyone on campaign in that at the beginning of a campaign a soldier might well indeed carry a recently issued knapsack only to lose it at the first battle (usually through orders from above to drop knapsacks for the on-coming battle). Also, perhaps a soldier would be able to retrieve either his own or someone else's knapsack after a battle or perhaps he did not. Perhaps the knapsack broke so he had to do with a blanket alone. As the soldier would go through the campaign and because of wear, battles or carelessness one would have to do with just the blanket in a roll (or even without the blanket). Maybe later in the campaign the soldier would be able to "pick-up" another knapsack along the way only to lose that one at yet another battle. These, and many other factors, could apply to any soldier on either side of the conflict. As I said before the use or non-use, of knapsacks could depend upon what regiment you were in, the length of the campaign and just where and how far one was along that campaign. So, a soldier might go through possibly several knapscks in just one campaign, going from knapsack to blanket roll back to knapsack and then to having nothing! So finally, depending upon what your are portraying at that moment and what documentation you can come up with for the use or non-use of knapsacks should be the guides that one should use when determining the wearing of such gear. Take care.

pops

03-08-2004, 12:07 PM

Anyone out there have any info on the Short Blanket Roll being used.All I have came up with is a print I belive of Chickamauga,and I dont know if this is pre or post war.Also one of the sutlers sell a blanket carrier for the short roll.I'll be using my knapsack a lot more now but I belive there will be times when I will want to use a blanket roll.

hireddutchcutthroat

03-08-2004, 01:17 PM

Here you go.

HOG.EYE.MAN

03-08-2004, 01:42 PM

Also one of the sutlers sell a blanket carrier for the short roll.

Pops,

I would stay away from sutler row.....

One of the best ways to carry a short roll is using your rifle/musket sling.

RJSamp

03-08-2004, 01:51 PM

rope works in a hurry as well.....can prove useful for setting up a tent, shebang, or even drying off the short rolled blanket.....

RJ Samp

markj

03-08-2004, 02:04 PM

Greetings,

Here is a larger version of the center soldier. You can zoom in on it using the "View" function in MS Word. Looks like he used rope or heavy twine to secure his roll.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

hireddutchcutthroat

03-08-2004, 05:22 PM

When I used this manner of blanket roll, I used an old I.C. musket sling and a piece of an I.C. cartridge box sling to spread out the wieght.

Michael Semann

03-08-2004, 08:32 PM

Skilletlicker was offering a blanket sling awhile back. I'm not sure if it is still being stocked by Joe, but if you are intent on using such a device, I would suggest this source. I believe they were made by Nick ************.

texandrummer61

03-16-2004, 12:00 PM

Just curious, do you prefer a knapsack or blanket roll for a generic impression?
Correction: do not pay attention to the 63-64 anv statement. Vote on the above question.

Ian Broadhead

K Bartsch

03-16-2004, 02:26 PM

Ian,
You should add a third option..."Both knapsack and blanket roll"
Cordially,

DougCooper

03-16-2004, 03:45 PM

Perhaps a better way to do this poll would to remove any reference to a "generic" army and time frame and just ask if you prefer a knapsack or a blanket roll. Many of us tailor the mode of carriage to the unit impression adopted, vice trying to capture a generic impression. With the research ability of many of the sleuths on this board, combing the accounts and CSR's for mention of knapsacks is not a big deal anymore. I imagine most of us would be hard pressed to even hazard a guess at what the "average" ANV soldier did over such a large timeframe as "63-64."

hireddutchcutthroat

03-16-2004, 06:49 PM

Well I do not do ANV, but I carry a knapsack for all of my federal and CS (AoT) impessions. I really really do not like blanket rolls, and unless the impression specificaly calls for them I carry a knapsack.

markmason

03-16-2004, 09:10 PM

pvtbordonaro

03-16-2004, 10:07 PM

Ditto on the knapsack Rob! I have wondered if blanket rolls are over represented..sometimes. It strictly depends upon the scenerio and research but, perhaps some have opted for the blanket roll in place of due to cost of getting a knapsack..Federally speaking
Mark,
You might be right in some cases, but speaking for myself, I own a good quality Federal knapsack, but much prefer using a blanket roll, when permitted. I find it much easier on my back on long marches.
-Joe Bordonaro

hireddutchcutthroat

03-17-2004, 02:58 AM

(Its Bob by the way :wink_smil )

I HATE blanket rolls, they (to me) are very uncomfortable, they are hot, and if you have anything delicate such as ambrotypes, toothbrushes or clay pipes, you may as well break them before you pack up. If you pack your knapsack right, you are right as the mail!

Just ask Doug Cooper about the fit I had last time I carried a blanket roll. :sarcastic

HOG.EYE.MAN

03-17-2004, 12:53 PM

Sometimes I like wearing both.

theknapsack

03-17-2004, 12:59 PM

If the Scenario Allows it, I use a Knapsack.
I find it equalizes the weight better than a blanket roll when I attach it to my belt. I also do drill much better with a knapsack.
If the scenario allows both it really depends on preference, unless their should be a certain number of each type.

coffee boiler

03-18-2004, 10:35 PM

Interesting question, I guess on average I prefer the knapsack over the blanket roll. The knapsack just seems to carry better on long marches for me, and it also makes it easier to get at your gear during those brief 15 min. rests.

texandrummer61

03-18-2004, 11:46 PM

Personally, I prefer knapsack , it is compact , light if you pack it right, and it is a lot easier to drum with than a blanket roll. [personal preference] :wink_smil

Ian Broadhead

James_Kane

03-19-2004, 07:47 AM

Hey, I was wondering if anybody had any information on the use and or construction of rubber blankets in the civil war (how many issued, number of gromets, dimensions, spacing between gromets). Also how common these were compared to painted canvas ground cloth. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

-James Kane

hardtack1864

03-19-2004, 01:59 PM

I hate knapsacks, those straps are murder and you can carry more stuff in a knapsack, but its not worth it. Now I'm just lugging a blanket and gum blanket, with both the knapsack & bedroll, but I like the bedroll more with that weight, the bedroll does make you get hotter quicker, though the knapsack gets quite hot on your back too. Just my two cents.

Tyler

03-19-2004, 05:27 PM

In the Summer 1995 (Vol.XLVII No. 2) copy of the Military Collector & Historian (journal of the Company of Military Historians), there is a very detailed artilce including measurements and sketches of about 15 gum blankets and ponchos, most recovered from the Maple Leaf shipwreck. The article is by Lawrence Babits, and you can purchase a back-issue of it for $5 on the "journal" page of
http://company.military-historians.org/index.htm
The only other source I know of is Mike Woshner's amazing book, India-Rubber and Gutta-Percha in the Civil War Era, available from, among other places, Jersey Skillet Licker.
Hope this helps,
Tyler Putman

James_Kane

03-19-2004, 07:37 PM

Thanks very much Tyler I think both of those recommendations will be of much help.

-James Kane
76 NYSVI

RJSamp

03-20-2004, 01:14 PM

Just be the Regimental (or above) Bugler and your stuff goes in the wagons!!

And you know that the Colonel's or General's belongings will get to you by night fall.....

Anyway, plenty of bugler diaries point out that mounted or dismounted they didn't carry their stuff....it was transported with the officer's baggage....

RJ Samp

(who has a horse to carry his stuff...and the saddle blankets come in handy on cold nights!).

Johan Steele

03-21-2004, 11:17 PM

I've often read of rolling the blanket inside of the gum blanket or poncho for rolling blanket rolls. I've always carried my gumblanket/poncho rolled in a tight round bundle and slung it from my blakent roll so it rides about squarly in the center of my low back, I was told this was not PEC soI decided to try wrapping it around my blanket roll. I made the attempt this weekend and what I discovered suprised me considerably, while I feel I would in no way be hindered in firing w/ my blanket roll as soon as I rolled the blanket & gum blanket together I found it all but impossible. There just was no way to seat the butt plate squarly against my shoulder.

I made certain to have the "large bag" on my back and the "small bag" in the front and tied off the area below my shoulder, both in front & in back as I was taught but found the "flat area" still too big to shoulder my rifle.

Is there a trick or step I'm missing?

Jonah Barleycorn

03-21-2004, 11:41 PM

I made the attempt this weekend and what I discovered suprised me considerably, while I feel I would in no way be hindered in firing w/ my blanket roll as soon as I rolled the blanket & gum blanket together I found it all but impossible. There just was no way to seat the butt plate squarly against my shoulder.

Comrade,

This begs the question, how are you slinging your blanket roll? If you put it--meaning the blanket roll--on the same way (going in the same direction) as your cartridge box, then that ought to leave your right shoulder free and clear to shoulder arms as well as to bring the rifle to bear. Rotating the tied ends towards your back will likewise leave yourself room to handle cartridges from your box.

Alas, if you want to experiment here are some other examples:

James P. Sullivan remembered that at Second Bull Run, "Hod Trembell had his rubber blanket folded up very narrow and was around his waist under his belt." The Iron Brigade at Bull Run, Milwaukee Daily Telegraph, May 16, 1884.

Also, the Charles Reed sketch, The Flankers, on page 347(at least in my copy) of John D. Billings' Hardtack and Coffee shows the soldier with his rubber blanket folded and looped under his belt, placed in the small of his back.

Again, these are just other exmaples of what you could do. Experimentation and experiences on the campaign will help you make your decision. In other words, try them out and see which works best for you.

Bully,

bcatgrappler

03-21-2004, 11:42 PM

Try throwing the roll around the left shoulder.

Mike Ray
Ruff n' Readys
www.ruffnreadysmess.cjb.net

DougCooper

03-22-2004, 03:43 AM

I have often wondered how the originals would have responded to this same poll - most I imagine might have preferred a knapsack if available. They may have been better at the blanket roll tieing than us though. Here is an interesting quote from the diary of Pvt Pierce, 16th Texas Dismounted Cav the morning after Mansfield:

April 9th:
At day light some of us began to prowl about some--the Federals having left during the night--I went forward towards the peach orchard on a little knoll on side of hill at edge of the orchard. I found quite a number of dead Yankees; one that had had his brains shot out facing the Confederates. He had a bright new outfit--Endfield rifle and aquarterments and I proceeded to take his and throw mine down. He had only used a few cartridges out of his box and I also took his knapsack it being a good one. His pockets had been turned wrong side out before I found him. Passing on farther and to the right I found in a fence corner next to the road a young man who seemed to be dressed in better material than most private soldiers. He was wounded through the hips and someone had stretched a blanket over him to keep off the sun which was by this time up. When I went up to him he commenced to beg me not to kill him which vexed me to think that he had such a foolish idea about Texans; and replied, "You fool! What would I want to kill you for? Don’t you know any better than that?" About this time I heard the order to fall in and hastened to the company and was just in time to take my place in ranks to start on the march to Pleasant Hill to catch the Yankees.

May be one only man's opinion on the federal knapsack but is interesting that he grabbed gun, accouterments and knapsack. We do know from diaries and letters that Walker's Division was flush with clothing but equipment was perhaps another matter.

Pip63

03-22-2004, 04:18 PM

I am with Rob on this one. I hate blanket rolls, I would and do carry my knapsack to every event. I personally don't like the way the blanket rubs my neck and I also can't shoot with one on. But I guess it's just a matter of what you want, although it's a lot easier to shoot with a knapsack on :).

Phillip Lasseter
32 Miss Infantry

Yellowhammer

03-22-2004, 05:32 PM

I personally think blanket rolls are under-represented rather than over-represented.

Back in the late 80's-early 90's, most Confederate reenactors carried blanket rolls (if they carried anything at all.) As the authenticity movement started to gain steam, "hardcores" started wearing packs and, over time, the practice became more and more common as the authenticity movement grew. I think we may have swung a little too far in favor of knapsacks and it may be time for an adjustment. On both sides, there is plenty of evidence showing that both blanket rolls and knapsacks were heavily used throughout the war.

In another post, someone said, "But I guess it's just a matter of what you want" and several posts touched on comfort. While this is great in impressions where there is some flexibility, there are MANY impressions where one is favored over the other. For example, orders from 1863 exist commanding units of the AoP to wear knapsacks and what to carry in them. Conversely, there are also orders to wear only the blanket. As with all things, some units enforced these orders to the letter while others did not. However, one thing is certain. No army, until very recently, cared much for their soldiers comfort.

Bent Rabbit

03-22-2004, 08:22 PM

I find that I get everything I 'need' in my blanket roll...
As far as comfort, I don't think there's ever been a Monday morning where I was suffering from blanket roll shoulder... But there certainly have been times where I 'remembered' wearing the pack after the event :wink_smil

Blanket roll for me...

OhioYankee85

03-23-2004, 12:13 AM

I myself have always preferred using my knapsack, I find it much easier to pack, and a lot more organized

John, please sign all of your posts with your full name - Mike Chapman

huntdaw

03-24-2004, 11:01 AM

I like my knapsack, especially in foul weather. I also like a blanket roll in winter time. It gives a little more warmth to part of my torso and it seems to have a psychological effect on me, making me feel like I'm warmer.

I was looking at that famous picture of Confederates in the streets of Frederick, MD prior to Sharpsburg specifically regarding this question. I can spot a few knapsacks but it seems the overwhelming majority of men are sporting the fashionable blanket roll. Of course, we can't apply that to all Confederates everywhere at every point of the war, but if you are doing ANV in 1862 you might want to have a few extra blanket rolls being carried in your unit.

pops

03-26-2004, 01:26 AM

Sometimes I like wearing both.
Just ran across an 1865 sketch by Alfred Waud,made on the outskirts of Richmond. this sketch shows seven confederates taking the oath of allegiance to the United States.Of the seven four do not show to have either blanket roll or knapsack,one shows a blanket roll and two show both a knapsack and blanket roll.

BishopLynch

03-28-2004, 03:01 PM

Pards,
I had a question about using a blanket roll and a knapsack together. I have a smaller pritchard pack and after putting in the blanket, nothing else really fits inside of it. Would it be ok to use the small knapsack for extra shirt, etc. that is supposed to be in it, and then have my blanket and oilcloth in a roll? The picture of the 3 confederate prisoners at Gettysburg shows this, but would they have just done this because they were going to be going off to a prison camp and were bringing all they could?

DougCooper

03-28-2004, 04:36 PM

Greg - good question...I see no difference between a roll and a blanket tied on top or underneath a knapsack. This is one of those comfort questions - since we need this stuff, it behooves us to figure out the best way to carry it over a long distance.

HOG.EYE.MAN

03-28-2004, 09:10 PM

Greg,

I've seen photo evidence of this practice being done as well.

I wear a bed roll and knapsack together quite often depending on the event scenario. Most of the time it's in colder weather though.

theknapsack

03-28-2004, 09:26 PM

Aaron, is there any way you can post these photos, or tell me maybe where I can find them? I'm interested in this but I have not seen any evidence so I am kind of reluctant to do it.
I'm trying to think of a sketch I had seen, I could swear that it had one man like that, but now I really can't remeber.

Thanks,

HOG.EYE.MAN

03-28-2004, 11:00 PM

Riley,

I don't have huge amounts of evidence on hand right now, but I do know of two. One is an image, and the other is a painting

As stated above, the 3 Confederate prisoner image. And Richard Norris Brooke's 1872 Painting "Furling the Flag." It shows a soldier with a knapsack and a red bed roll. I found this painting in Leslie Jensen's "Johnny Reb" book. I'll try to find more later.

I also don't have a scanner to post these pictures. :cry_smile

MarkTK36thIL

03-29-2004, 05:45 AM

To Mr. Cooper,
Could you elaborate more on tying things underneth the packs? I hadn't heard of this before. Thanks.

BishopLynch

03-29-2004, 10:40 AM

Here is the photo of the three prisoners.

CJSchumacher

03-29-2004, 11:00 AM

There is a great painting in the book "Civil War Art" (huge hardback volume) toward the end of a black soldier returning from the front. He's pretty ragged, but if you look at the picture he is wearing a federal double bag and has an overcoat tied around him, blanket roll style. Its rolled inside-out and lengthwise I suppose as you can clearly see the light blue kersey and bright red flannel or jean lining.

RyanBWeddle

03-29-2004, 11:17 AM

Here is the photo of the three prisoners.

Well, there you have it... there is plenty of documentation that men wore blankets and knapsacks together at times...you carried this stuff however you could... READ diaries, regimental histories and look at sketches, photos to gather this info...don't rely on this forum...

Here is the painting Colonel Schwieterman refered to:

<img src="http://www.cranstonfinearts.com/LISTING/PICTURES/IMAGES/B9.JPG">

And since I am in a nice mood this morning...

Here are a few images from author/artist/veteran Allen C. Redwood's
With Stonewall Jackson;
"A Tarheel", "Passing the Rubicon", and lastly "A Back Slider"

Clearly the sketches show men w/ knapsacks & blanket rolls on campaign... and in case you don't know Redwood served w/ 55th Virginia Inf. Co. C, his sketches are proof positive on how men dealt w/ their carriage...

hardtack1864

03-29-2004, 01:07 PM

fidlr1

03-29-2004, 01:11 PM

Check out the "Backslider"--is that a big ol' boiler tied to his canteen?

GACornbread

03-29-2004, 01:27 PM

This is an interesting close-up. I agree he is using twine or rope. Did anyone else notice where he is wearing his haversack and canteen? ...way down below his belt. Plus, he has no shoes and his pants are rolled up and it looks like the trousers are unlined. Great photo!

Houston White

Yellowhammer

03-29-2004, 02:59 PM

Sean,

I would refer you to Curt Schmidt's series of articles on research. I suspect you will find that enlightening.

Not every question about material culture can be answered by "Echoes of Glory" and the AC Forum. No matter how "crudy" your library is, they will still have interlibrary loan. Through this service, you can borrow almost any book you want. The library is free and researching on the Internet is free. All it takes is time and a desire to learn.

Yes, this forum is a place to share information but it is not the place to come to be spoonfed information. Doing the research yourself is the most important part! If you only do "call and response" research, you will NEVER get a complete picture of anything.

By reading books, whether they are bios, regimental histories, or general histories, you will get a much more complete understanding of this period and you will fill your mind with all sorts of information. For example, you may read "Rebel Private Front and Rear" because you are interested in the 5th Texas for an event or specific impression. Later, perhaps years later, someone may ask about ANV troops at Chickamauga or CS use of knapsacks and you will be able to remember that William Fletcher picked up a Federal knapsack and Chickamauga and slung it over the knaps he already had on. Often, a fact that seems trivial now may be critical later on.

Long story short, if you go looking for a widget, you will only ever find widgets. If you cast your net wider and read and research in a general way, you will have a broader understanding and will be logging away facts for future reference.

DougCooper

03-29-2004, 04:07 PM

I have experimented with making a short roll of your blanket and then attaching that under the knapsack (tied off through the knapsack straps). It sets against the small of your back and provides a bit of support, plus it does not appear to pull one backward as they tend to do ontop. I then put the gum blanket rolled on top for easy access. Never seen a photo of this and it may be that it would interfere with the cartridge box but we pull those around front/side when firing anyway. The whole load bearing ergonomic science appears to have been not quite mature in the CW, Short's patent knapsack notwithstanding.

I suspect the reason you see blanket rolls and knapsacks together is simple.

1. Need to get to the blanket quickly, without removing/unpacking knapsack
2. Blanket won't fit and of all the things in there, it is easiest to carry outside
3. When the order comes for "drop packs" it usually means you are about to go into combat or something requiring the double quick...and you may never see the knapsack again...so you want to at least save the blanket/gum blanket.
4. No overcoat straps

just some ideas

hireddutchcutthroat

03-29-2004, 06:02 PM

Here is a portion of a painting showing the original usage of the "Mexican War" Knapsack. Note how the blanket is rolled on top.

James Walker, LSM, For educational usage only, all rights reserved.

HOG.EYE.MAN

03-29-2004, 06:53 PM

Here is the painting Colonel Schwieterman refered to

Ryan,

Thanks for posting that painting.

Sincerely,

Colonel A.T. Schwieterman

shortstreet

03-30-2004, 10:59 AM

I don't really have a preference either way although I voted for blanket roll. In my case, I'll see what other guys in my company are wearing, and try to balance out the look of our unit. If there's a majority of knapsacks, I'll go with the blanket roll and likewise.

Joel Busenitz

KentuckyReb

03-30-2004, 02:21 PM

Hoo, Jaysus! Stompin' around in a railway bed in your bare feet. Boy's tough enough he don't need a musket. :eek:

HOG.EYE.MAN

03-30-2004, 03:00 PM

"In my case, I'll see what other guys in my company are wearing, and try to balance out the look of our unit. If ther's a majority of knapsacks, I'll go with the blanket roll and likewise."

Joel,

Some photographic evidence exists of soldiers wearing the same exact gear as the rest of the unit, including knapsacks and bedrolls. You don't always have to be different all the time. This is something that's under represented in our hobby today.

So, depending on the SCENARIO, I would say it's OK to mirror your buddy next to you in line, every once and a while.

If it were me, I would go with what the majority is wearing instead of your theory.

theknapsack

03-30-2004, 06:47 PM

Thank you everyone for the photos, sketches, and paintings! That helps me quite a bit. Do you know what side the sketches are attributed to? It looks to me as though all are Confederate soldiers. Is there any photos for Federal usage? Or do you think it would just make sense that both sides would have done this?
Any input would be great.

hireddutchcutthroat

03-30-2004, 07:32 PM

Do you know what side the sketches are attributed to? .

All the posted images drawings and paintings have been of CS or prewar troops.

hireddutchcutthroat

03-30-2004, 07:55 PM

Well, don't forget that some people may have a lot of books and such, but there might be a few drawings/photos/journals out there they don't have in their books or with the way libarys are today "I have crudy libarys where I have lived and still live" that info might not be there. Also this is a place to share info, not a place to complain about someone not looking up the info themselves. Just my two cents.

Sean

I went so far as getting permission from a museum in Louisiana to use an image from there collection to help ansewer your post. There libraries in SoCal that house some of the finest collections of primary souce letters diaries and unpublished memoirs west of the Mississippi. Even small town libraries have a fairly good body of the basic CIvil War books. Dont be afraid to do a little legwork for yourself.

hardtack1864

03-30-2004, 08:28 PM

Yes, I'm sorry and I know the error of what I said now.

bonniegreenflag

04-11-2004, 01:24 AM

Did the groundcloths issued by the RD have grommets? All I could find was that civilian ones dont.

pvtbordonaro

04-13-2004, 06:46 PM

Friends,
At the time of the Civil War, horse collar blanket rolls were used by many soldiers, but no formal instruction was given by the Army. But, by the time of the Spanish-American War, about 30 years later, the Army did officially approve of the blanket roll and taught its recruits how to make one. This description is from a book called "The Little War of Private Post", by Charles Johnson Post, page 60. I thought it might be of interest to y'all, especially the part about leaving the middle of the blanket roll loose:
"In the business of making a blanket roll, you lay the blanket on the ground, put into it your tent pegs and your half of the two tent poles- for each man carries but one-half the tent-and then arrange your towel, socks, shirt, and extra underwear and roll up the blanket. Then, turning your attention to your half of the tent, fold it lengthwise. This you lay on top of the blanket roll, fasten it at the ends and the middle, much as if reefing a sail, then bend it until it takes its horse-collar shape, fasten the two ends- and there you are, ready to stick your head through and sling it. It is excellent. But- and this we learned on our first march to the transport-the blanket roll must be made sloppy, not neat. A hard, neat horse collar will bear into the shoulder like a steel bar; so roll it loose and floppy for the part that lies over the shoulder and with no baggage inside the center section- just at the two ends. It looks like a clumsy, amateur sausage lying out straight but it is soft on the shoulder.
-Joe Bordonaro

RyanBWeddle

04-13-2004, 08:56 PM

"It looks like a clumsy, amateur sausage lying out straight but it is soft on the shoulder."

Indeed many Span Am reg'ts didn't have proper knapsacks so the blanket roll was the only mode of carriage for gear. (Capron's Batt'y, 71st NY, 9th US Infantry, etc.) Therefore, there would be a bit more 'regulation' to there usage...

<img src="http://www.spanamwar.com/9thmontauk.JPG">
9th US Infantry at Montauk Point, NY
from www.spanamwar.com

These later rolls also tie off VEEERY low toward the end...

I have yet to see a sketch, drawing, painting, or photo of the CW period when supports this "horseshoe" style of blanket roll... they are seen most in SpanAm photos/references as you mentioned.

The CW sketches of Allen C. Redwood (55th VA veteran) show a "twisted" blanket roll (my fav), a much different looking style of blanket roll than a 'horse shoe':

See this thread & attached pics, then compare rolls:
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2584

also compare w/ this Winslow Homer sketch:
<img src="http://www.civilwar.si.edu/homer_images/l_204a.jpg">

Infantry Column on the March
From: The Smithsonian Inst.
http://www.civilwar.si.edu
Drawing: Graphite on tracing paper, 1862
10 1/4 x 23 ½ ins. (260 x 597 mm)
Cooper-Hewitt, National Design Museum, Smithsonian Institution
Gift of Charles Savage Homer, Jr.
1912-12-204 A

There are obvious differences between CW rolls and those of the 1898 / 1917 period...

DougCooper

04-14-2004, 12:46 AM

Mark Timms did an interesting variation on tieing off the roll at Mansfield. He used a length of twine that was knotted around each end of the roll with about 5 inches of twine in between the ends. All items were secure and it was easier to twist the roll and maintain it as the ends rotated on their own. The extra space kept it away from the cartridge box and allowed some air underneath - more comfy on the long marches.

markj

04-14-2004, 02:48 PM

Greetings,

I've posted this elsewhere but it might be of interest as it depicts an interesting variation on the blanket roll.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

Gallo de Cielo

04-14-2004, 03:39 PM

Here is a nice description as penned by Private John Kennedy Street of the 9th Texas Infantry. The letter was written immediately after the fight at Shiloh.

In answering a query from his wife Street states: "'Did you lose all your clothes love your blanket[,] knapsack and everything you had in the battle?' No love I expected that a knapsack would be burdensome to me so I did not take any with me when I left for the battle ground neither did I take a cot. I only tied around me the blankets Ma gave me. I wore it around me all day Sunday- it was twisted as you would bed clothes in wringing the water out of them- the ends tied together and thrown over one shoulder and under the other arm and all day Monday till late in the evening it came untied in the last charge we made and I would not stop to tie it on again.'"

For what it's worth...

Kind regards,

Fred Baker

Yellowhammer

04-14-2004, 05:18 PM

Regarding the "right" and "wrong" was to make a blanket roll, there are only so many ways to combine a strap or twine, blanket, ground cloth, etc... into an item that could be carried over the shoulder. Given the millions of men in uniform 1861-65, I'm pretty confident every variation was tried at least once.

In the end, many soldiers would have arrived at the same conclusions but I'm sure there were always soldiers who through stubborness, ignorance, or laziness tramped along with an uncomfortable, ill-fitting conglomeration over their shoulder.

Soldiers during the war would have tried different approaches to make their load fit their body in a way that was comfortable. I think Ryan's excellent post illustrates that pretty clearly.

Yellowhammer

04-14-2004, 05:31 PM

I am unaware of any CS groundcloths that are documented to a maker. There are such items id'd to soldiers who served in the ANV and documentation showing such items being produced, but I'm unaware of any groundcloth maker being linked to an extant original or pattern.

Jimmayo

04-14-2004, 06:14 PM

Excavated brass grommets are extremely rare in Confederate positions/camps. The only ones I have found are in late war sites and are the same as and probably came from captured Federal rubber blankets.

Hank Trent

04-14-2004, 07:17 PM

In the original post, this line stood out: "your half of the two tent poles..."

Don't know how long Span Am tent poles were, but could the poles have prevented the Span Am blanket roles from being made into more of a C shape and forced them to be worn like a U with the two sides long and straight?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

huntdaw

04-14-2004, 08:07 PM

pvtbordonaro

04-15-2004, 12:00 AM

The blanket rolls in the Span Am photo look to me to be created by folding the blanket over on itself as opposed to rolling it up to make the desired shape. This would result in a flatter, wider look.

Michael,
From what I read, I think the Span-Am.-era soldiers rolled their blanket and effects, then folded their tent and laid it on top of the roll and bent the resulting "horse collar" over their shoulders. This would result in an excellent "Civil War-type" blanket roll with a "Army-neat" look to it created by a neatly folded tent being the visible part of the horse collar. Of course, as Ryan points out, the "Army-neat" look would've been a post-Civil War technique because during the Civil War the soldiers were supposed to be issued, and to use, knapsacks. Hence, regulations would not have been issued on how to use a blanket roll. Again, as Ryan's posted pictures clearly show, the lack of official Army approval didn't keep soldiers from using blanket rolls. In the case of the Confederates, this was probably due to necessity. For Union troops, it was probably more a personal choice, or due to their "losing" their knapsacks one way or another. The fact that at the time of the Civil War the blanket roll was a soldier-driven technique would account for the fact that we don't see pictures of them with "Army-neat" horse collars, but rather the more practical, easy-to-make blanket roll.
-Joe

hireddutchcutthroat

04-15-2004, 02:26 PM

I may be wrong, but I think the US Army had a perscibed way of making a blanketroll in the SpanAm period.

pvtbordonaro

04-15-2004, 07:21 PM

I may be wrong, but I think the US Army had a perscibed way of making a blanketroll in the SpanAm period.
Robert,
That's correct. If you look back at the first post in this thread, it has a quote from a soldier who served in the 71st New York Infantry in the Spanish-American War in which he described how he was taught by the Army to make a horse-collar, or blanket, roll.
-Joe

pvtben

04-16-2004, 05:58 PM

Hello Gents,

I prefer a blanket roll; I had once purchased a good knapsack disliking the blanket roll.
I used the knapsack and found it very uncomfortable for me. I have stuck with a blanket roll and know love it.

Pvt. Ben Jenkins
19th La Infantry
Vance Guards

Secede1863

04-16-2004, 10:40 PM

All,

As stated previosuly by a fella'; "Ive never woken up on a Monday morning with blanket-roll pain" or something to that effect.

I do have each, well a softpack and a blanketroll.
If I wanted to carry a small journal or somethign to write in I would, though some might not agree on the authenticity, in my haversack. A small pencil in my pockets (The Blessed Pocket). I wouldnt carry a pen because I wouldnt want ink flowing in my food-bag.
Gross, if it were to spill. Im not having salted ink meats and breads.
In My opinion it all depends on the scenario depicted. Probablry western theatre I'd think of as more of the blanket rollers.
Eastern early war I think of as the knapsackers, and east late war and some mid war I think of the blanket rollers. Of course, there are exceptions to every rule, including this theory.
70% of the time I wear my blanket roll
20 percent of the time I wear my soft pack
And 10% of the time I wear nothing. ( So to speak :tounge_sm )

In conclusion; Im a Blanket Roller.

Your Pard

Medic14

04-20-2004, 11:40 AM

Ian,
Definitly the Knapsack. The blanket roll can break your stuff and is not very comfortable.

Josh Coughenour,
Muddy Creek Mess

Secede1863

04-20-2004, 04:17 PM

Josh, or Whatever your profile says....

By stating the blanket roll is uncomfortable, do you mean bulky, or large and not as tight or "strapped" on such as the Knapsack is?
True, the Civil War soldier did have a personal comfort level but as a soldier becomes more veteran the need to bring the heavy knapsack onto the field become more and more pointless. After the battle of Chancellorsville impaticular dozens of knapsacks were found dotted around the sides of the roads. After this you start to see troops turn to the blanket roll (Starting at the Gettysburg Campaign) Though not all ditched their knapsacks under orders to in the retreat from Jacksons Flank movements, many did. Some kept their knapsacks but at Appomatox in the eastern theatre a very limited number on both sides carried them.

There is a good article on blanket rolling at the Sykes Regulars website on Manuals I believe. Check it out for any new comers (Medic14 or whoever else might want it)

Your Pard

hireddutchcutthroat

04-20-2004, 05:35 PM

Andrew

"After the battle of Chancellorsville impaticular dozens of knapsacks were found dotted around the sides of the roads."

This was due to the fact that the men were ordered to drop packs. These units were then forced to retreat thereby loosing their knapsacks.

Skeet

04-20-2004, 06:02 PM

Pards, I have a question. Why on earth would you want to wear both? I think blanket rolls are to bulky. Cpl Dan Morgan, 10thVA (IVR)

hireddutchcutthroat

04-20-2004, 06:05 PM

Dan

Some packs, such as English import packs, are too small to carry a blanket and other personals. It also spreads the load out a bit.

bonniegreenflag

04-20-2004, 07:00 PM

Thanks for the input, but I have sense learned new things which have led me to restate the question- did CS groundsheets frequently have stitched grommets without brass? I am interested in purchasing one of Andrew Martin's painted ground cloths and wanted to be perepared.

ChrisM(armyguy)

04-20-2004, 10:32 PM

Ive noticed that while the knapsack allows for more storage space, the bed roll happens to be more comfortable. Many of the mid to late war photographs, you see the mix of bed rolls and knapsacks, though also alot of one or the other. Much would have to do with what the individual unit commanders would allow as we all know that in all things, the private soldier does not have the thinking capacity to come up with decisions on his own and must rely on the education of his officers.

chris mattingly

poncho

04-21-2004, 11:31 AM

Yellowhammer

04-21-2004, 06:00 PM

Features I've seen on painted cloth "ground sheets:"

1- Felled edges.
2- Unfelled edges.
3- Sewn grommets
4- No gromments.

Basically, pick an "edge" option and a "grommet" option and there is an original out there like it.

hireddutchcutthroat

04-21-2004, 08:01 PM

Does anybody know how many surviving CS groundsheets there are?

Skeet

04-22-2004, 11:05 AM

Robert, I didn't think about that. Good point, I'm still going with a Kibbler! Cpl Dan Morgan, 10th VA (IVR)

Yellowhammer

04-22-2004, 12:56 PM

I know of three but there can't be that many.

hireddutchcutthroat

04-22-2004, 07:04 PM

I know of three but there can't be that many.

Do you know there provinance if any?

K Bartsch

04-24-2004, 10:09 AM

Comrades,
After reading all the posts in this thread, I would say it is almost a dead heat on preference. I personally prefer the knapsack for the same reasons everybody has mentioned already. I will add that as far as the lack of comfort of the knapsack; you just get used to it. I often think what the originals did? Sure there are tons of accounts documenting men throwing away their knapsacks, but some still kept them. I have seen late war photos with men wearing nothing but their knapsacks! Also as far as our preferences, we only have to make do with these things for a weekend or 3 days at most. Our predecesors had to make do with these things for years! I'm sure they just acclimated to these conditions. It's just like it would be if you worked in a sewage plant, after a while you don't smell it anymore! :) Basically depending on what you had (or were ordered to have) you just got conditioned to it.

This from your post: "I have seen late war photos with men wearing nothing but their knapsacks!" invokes a rather bizarre image don't you think? :wink_smil

Anyway, the thing I like about these little Mex-War singlebags is its virtually impossible to overpack them -- a fact appreciated by one's back and shoulders on a march. I do generally carry a blanket roll in addtition to the pack. There's plenty of photographic evidence of this practice as well.

Cordially,

GACornbread

04-24-2004, 10:42 AM

Comrades:
After all this discussion I want to post this comment from the letters of Marion Hill Fitzpatrick, a Pvt. in the 45 GA. The quote comes from the book: "Red Dirt and Isinglass, A War Time Biography of a Confederate Soldier" by Henry Vaughan McCrea.

Ferguson Hospital
Lynchburg VA
July 6th 1863

"They gave our boys in the Reg. just before the last march a choice to have their their tents hauled or or a portion of their kanpsacks Of course, they all preferred the knapsacks. They carried one knapsack for every five men. I put a pair of pants and some other tricks in one and sent them on."

I find this a very interesting memory of what the soldiers preferred when given the opportunity.

Houston White
Support the Pickets Mill Fence Rail Drive
Register for Picketts Mill authentic Event today!

FortyRounder

04-24-2004, 10:27 PM

In my very humble opinion, most living historians---including we campaigners, who boast of the light loads we carry---pack a lot more than the actual Civil War fighting men often did in the field. Brigham Buswell, a member of Berdan's Sharpshooters, tells in his memoirs how very little he carried in the retreat on the Penninsula in June 1862:

"Our remaining worldly possessions were now reduced to a minimum. They were carried in a small black rubber blanket rolled up and thrown over the shoulder and tied on the other side below the arm. They consisted of one heavy woolen shirt, one pair of socks, a spool of thread, a few buttons and needles, a diary in which I tried as well as I could to record the incidents each day and a testament that my mother gave me when she bade me farewell. Not thinking as we had orders to change camp in a hurry I forgot everything but the shirt, the smaller articles remaining on the ground where they fell." (Civil War Times Illustrated, V. XXXIV, N. 6)

In this situation, a knapsack would hardly seem worthwhile.

Noble Pelican

04-25-2004, 04:47 AM

I havent done as many 63-64 ANV as some of you but I would pick the blanket roll. Although I personally prefer the knapsack, research on ANV Louisianians suggest blanket rolls were the prime item in 62 to facilitate their speedy marches so I doubt they would switch to knapsacks later.

April 18, 1862... "Now prepared for the certainty of swift marching, each man carried only his gun and ammunition, an extra outfit of clothing and shoes, and one blanket. Tents gave way to the necessity of using whatever shelter the countryside afforded. All (General Richard) Taylor required for himself, including a small fly tent and a single change of underwear, he carried on his horse. A Confederate lieutenant described Taylor as wearing a black hat and black overcoat, and like other officers, he tended to keep the overcoat on, even during warm weather to protect against a sudden chill or rain. Tom Strother, his servant, rode alongside, equally Spartan in his accoutrements. 'My people grumbled no little at being stripped,' Taylor recalled, 'but soon admitted that they were better for it,' despite the shock of several more violent storms."

Source: page 148-149, "Richard Taylor: Soldier Prince of Dixie" by T. Michael Parrish - University of North Carolina Press: 1992

Secede1863

04-25-2004, 04:23 PM

The Mexican War Kible (sp?) knapsack works nicely for Confederate Impressions of all times, especially early war.

What Im trying to get accross is as the war went on the knapsacks didn't and got left behind, sold, stolen off dead or just lost.

Our Friend NolanTamsBurke *user name* uses a Kible (sp?) Mexican War Pack.

Stubs

hireddutchcutthroat

04-26-2004, 02:45 PM

Mr Hickox got me thinking, about the load that I carry. So I grabbed my US knapsack out of the closet and here is the inventory of my "bureau"

Contents of my knapsack:

1.Blanket wool
1.Blanket rubber
1.Tent half
1.Towel
1.Piece of Soap
1.Housewife
1.Small tin of Flour of Emory
1.Rag
1.Army Shirt

The load I carry doing CS is pretty close with the exceptions of, different blanket, panted ground sheet, and no shelter tent.

pvtben

04-30-2004, 11:25 AM

Hey Guys,

Hey i have been carying a blanket roll for a while and i wanted to know a authentic way to carry a short roll.

Pvt. Benjamin N. Jenkins
19th LA Vol. Infantry
Vance Guards

Charles Heath

04-30-2004, 11:55 AM

This may prove helpful:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/search.php?searchid=64408

Charles Heath

SCTiger

05-03-2004, 05:31 PM

Comrades:

Make some brief but, accuarate observations about "Into The Wilderness"
You can enter opinions, just back them up with facts. Here are my own lesson learned notes:

1. Lighter loads,
2. Greasy Bacon and extra cartidges never mix (haversack)
3. Better to arrive early, take the day off.
4. Learn some song lyrics.
5. Insist on a real Comrade-in-arms, stay with your four and organize your loads amongst them. Review the manual-of-arms with them.
6. Unlined Sack Coat.
7. More discussions/practice on Skirmish drill.
8. Try to Car pool for any event over 300 miles.
9. Bring some defarbed first-aid stuff, bandages/tweezers
10. My knapsack sucks.
11. I need period matches that will work anywhere.
12 Shaving kits are useless.

Things that worked:

1. No frying pan.
2. Bringing 1 extra shirt, socks and underwear, extra towel
3. (2) wooden tent pins
4. extra rope, 10 feet
5. No hatchet
6. No large knife
7. No cards
8. Placing the cup in the haversack
9 Mink oiling my brogans prior to the event.
10. wool socks over thin cotton socks =no blisters.
11. Reading everything on the event site.
12. Quality cartridge paper, rolling your own.
13 Small period rifle cleaning kit in the knapsack.
14 Small tin of grease to prevent rust.
15. Buying Quality gear works: Hoffman, Daley, QM stores, Orchard Hill et al.
16 Thread your needles before you go to the field. Small housewife.
17 A quality mechanical time piece is very handy.
18 Pre-combat checking your gear before the event, pre loading
19. Always buddy up with an ex-Special Forces Sergeant Major if possible.
20. Forgetting your at an "event" and enjoying the moment.
:D

DukeRPSC

05-03-2004, 06:05 PM

Greg:

This is excellent. After every event folks need to prepare a "what worked/what didn't" list for themselves so they can learn by their experiences. Sometimes, the passage of a mere few weeks makes the difference in remembering lessons learned and not.

Adjutant

05-03-2004, 06:56 PM

I'll bite:

What what I learned (as a Regimental Adjutant for the 14th TN):
- Two officer's haversacks are better than one! (especially when one holds five regimental books, roll up desk, ration blanks, morning report blanks, ordnance blanks, officer's pay rolls, descriptive lists, and field returns, pencils, pens, ink, candles, blank paper, a map, extra matches, twine, &tc)
- Do not bring extra headquarter's gear relying on the mule to show up
- If forced to leave behind headquarter's gear DO NOT leave the coffee pot!
- Matchsafes are wonderful things.
- Filling out consolidated morning reports and order books in ink in the field takes time but is very rewarding.
- True staff officers never really rest and have worries long after the privates stop.
- Field made lemonade is as close to heaven as humans can get.
- Pistols are not necessary and I'm really glad I left mine home.
- Sword belts can double as drum slings.
- Always know where all your companies are as the Colonel gets impatient if they are missing.

This list will grow as I continue to reflect. Time to work on that AAR! I remain...

texandrummer61

05-03-2004, 08:53 PM

Here's my list of what worked and what did'nt:

Worked-
1. My extremely hiked up traps
2. Twisting my blanket roll
3. Seperating food from other accoutrements in my haversack

Did'nt Work-
1. My shebang
2. My suspenders
3. The size of my miniature ground cloth
4. Leaving my drum heads exposed to rain instead of my kit
[ numbers 1 and 2 -only 14th Tenn. staff will get them]

Wild Rover

05-03-2004, 09:06 PM

Did'nt Work-
1. My shebang
2. My suspenders

LOL...yeah Ian, got it!

Are your heads ok? You did a great job thispast weekend, and anytime you want to come back this way we would be glad to have you.

Andrew, yup, humping those books wouldhave been alot easier with a mule, huh?

:)

And just how did someone pry that coffee pot away from you? I didn't think that was possible!

Later guys!

James Brenner

05-03-2004, 09:51 PM

What worked:

The teaching point that showed just hard it is/was to keep alignment and unit integrity in the wilderness.

Messes: both Mess #1 from the 6th Ohio and the Weeks Mill Boys from B/7 ME

What didn't work:

4 canteens of water on Saturday wasn't enough.

JACKSONVC

05-03-2004, 10:07 PM

Things that did not work
Well that damn tarred ground cloth was not made for overhead cover!
I'll never carry those damn candles again!
Extra socks would have been a blessing!
Kepi is out, a wide brimmed hat is a must.
Not owning a sewing kit so I can expose my private parts to federal fire, priceless.
Strike anywhere matches? Right.

Things that worked
Softing the leather in my shoes with rubbing alcohol prior to the event
(learned this from an old German Vet)
Wrapping cooked bacon in paper before putting it in my haversack (my other things did not become soaked in bacon fat, like those of others)
Coffee, no matter how hot or cold the weather!
brushing up on manual of arms prior to attending, I didn't look the part of a jackass that way.
keeping my musket clean and in order, it functions when fired that way. (saw a few fellows at the inspection who didn't get the idea that the musket is to be clean and in working order) Scarry!
If you are a private, be a private, If you are a Sargent, be a Sargent, If you are an Officer be that Officer. Know your place in the food chain and play your part!
Follow orders when given.
Drink water, Drink water, then drink more water!
Potatoes laid in the coals before you go to sleep become a nice warm breakfast treat.
and finally if you don't know something, ask. There are those out there who are willing to help.

nofarb38

05-05-2004, 05:17 PM

:wink_smil
Things that worked:

The unreal ammount of fun 12 cold and wet guys can have around a camp fire in the rain at 2 in the morning.

A blanket roll worked better than a knapsack (especially when wet)

Carrying two waterproofs

How much better quality gear performs in bad weather

How you can enjoy Hell when you are surrounded with great chums

C. Anders can be heard over musketry......

Things that didn't work:

Oil cloths soak through eventually

My file partner didn't like spooning with me :-(

Larry M. get's really upset when you interupt his dinner by moving camp

A tick bite in the crack of my buttocks....

Cap and Ball

05-05-2004, 05:33 PM

Hello I Was Wondering If Anyone Could Tell Me The Best Way To Repair A Gum Blanket. The Outer Strip Of My Blanket Is Coming A Part And I Wanted To Know the Best Way To Repair It.

Thanks Chris Wallace

Enfilade

05-05-2004, 05:56 PM

"Hello I was wondering If Anyone Could Tell Me The Best Way To Repair A Gum Blanket. The Outer Strip Of My Blanket Is Coming A Part And I Wanted To Know The Best Way To Repair It. Thanks Chris Wallace"

COOOOOOL! The best parts of most impressions are the regular wear and tear of your items. You know, it shows you're a veteran and a user of the said item. So what if it's tearing up or wearing out? If you were really on campaign like the real soldiers were, that stuff would be worked over really bad. This is something we just cannot replicate except for the fact that we wear it until it falls off or use it until it wears completely out. But by then, we would have had another issue. I wouldn't worry about "fixing" these things so much. My biggest worry would be fixing it, and then it looks like crap. Like it had been "fixed" instead of used. You know, it's fixed but how and why would a soldier that was issued this stuff he lays on every night between himself and the ground, why would he worry about the outer edges coming off? But that's just me. I hope this helps.

Mark Berrier
North State Rifles
combinations@northstate.net

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

05-05-2004, 08:34 PM

Hallo Kameraden!

Originals were made so that that was fused in the manufacturing process. Several modern makers simply use black vinyl cement to hold the edge bindings and grommet reinforcements down (less nasty than the "bonded and sealed" vulcanization process or a alternative manufacturing method using naptha solvent and chloride of sulfur).

When the U.S.S. Maple Leaf struck a torpedo and went down on April 1, 1864, it was carrying stores as well as the personal baggage of three federal regiments. Eleven gun blankets, a poncho, and a section of rubberized cloth were excavated.

"Rubberized Artifact #01138 from the U.S.S. Maple Leaf had a series of stitch holes around a tear. Although the thread had long since rotted away, it is believed it was a stitched field repair.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

Kayjay

05-05-2004, 09:54 PM

Make some brief but, accuarate observations about "Into The Wilderness"

Do not set your shebang up next to 14th Tn HQ shebang unless you want to be kept awake all night by lost patrols reporting in.

Keivn Kelley

hireddutchcutthroat

05-05-2004, 11:03 PM

cprljohnivey

05-06-2004, 09:26 AM

Worked:

1. Cooking rations up on Friday Night.
2. Dividing the "load" amongst my mess mates for the weekend (You carry the baccon, I carry the fry pan)
3. Carrying hemp rope (very light and takes up little space but strong)
4. Deciding to carry the shelter half afterall!!!!!!!
5. Carrying an extra shirt and socks!!!
6. Carrtying extra leather shoestrings to fix a busted sole of a pards shoe!
7. Having a pre-threaded needle in my housewife to repare the hole in my trousers I got from when I "ran through the brambles and ran through the briars and ran throught the places that a rabbit couldn't go..."
8. SHARING GREAT TIMES WITH GREAT PARDS AND MAKING NEW FRIENDS!!!

Didn't work:
1. Squezing 3 pards into a shelter tent designed to barely fit 2 (Wet feet and blankets in the AM)
2. Not having enough tent pins (MR Daley, when will I ever be able to get more from you?!?!?!?!?!)
3. Carrying a jack knife that should have been sharpened before the event. (Its like trying to cut your meat with a spoon!!!)
4. Realizing that the many many many of us still need to learn our drill and where their proper place is in the company/regiment!!!!

Brad Ireland
Old Line Mess
Pridgeons Shanendoah Legion

Wild Rover

05-06-2004, 09:34 AM

"Do not set your shebang up next to 14th Tn HQ shebang unless you want to be kept awake all night by lost patrols reporting in. "

Keivn Kelley

LOL, I am just glad they didn't kill the division CO.

"Who the duce are you?"

I wish I had been there to see that one!

Later,

The Pigman

05-06-2004, 11:48 AM

I had the same thing happen and now use the piece that came off as a rope to help hold my dog tent up.

Thanks,
Mark C. Foster

John E. Tobey

05-06-2004, 01:46 PM

A question I have been tossing around in my head as of late, is should I repair a few different pieves of gear that have become a bit kicked about or should I just replace the item. What I am torn with is, would a soldier repair an item, or would he just chuck the worn out item and draw another.

If talking about stuff in a Federal impression, I think it depends on the items, the commands, and the timeframe.

Some items weren't the property of the soldier, they were just "on loan" from the US government -- the only way these items were replaced were if they were lost or condemned by an inspector or superior. If they were lost, the money was deducted from the soldier's pay. If they were condemned, it was charged to the government if the wear and tear was deemed due to regular use or charged to the soldier if it was deemed the result of neglect. Such items included Ordnance supplies and Camp and Garrison equipage.

Some items *were* the property of the soldier, and the cost of such items was debited from the soldier's clothing allowance when he drew new ones. Assuming that supplies were available, a soldier could draw what he needed or wanted. Some clothing items were watched by the inspectors, however -- for example, soldiers in some units at certain times could be ordered to replace worn items of uniform if they presented an "unsoldierly appearance".

Some issue items owned by the soldiers tended to be overlooked. For instance, I doubt whether the army officially cared if a soldier had a blanket at all. If instances exist of soldiers being ordered to replace a holey blanket or waterproof exist, they are certainly rare. On the other hand, I've seen plenty of documentation to suggest that some tough fellows would do with an ancient, threadbare blanket or even send their army ones home and do without. The same applies to gum blankets. I reckon it depended on what the soldier could bear. Keep in mind that soldiers could receive the unused portion of their clothing allowance in hard cash. The less they drew, the more spondulix went into their pockets.

John Tobey

hireddutchcutthroat

05-06-2004, 03:05 PM

Excellent point John.
Also it brings into question, what would be considered government property, and what would be considered personal property. I imagine that items such as musket accoutrents, musket, musket tools, etc would be government property, while haversacks, knapsacks, canteens clothing etc. would be personal. The condition of these items would echo this, your officers would insist on the care and condition of your musket and musket items, but the condition of your haversack probably would not matter.

markj

05-06-2004, 04:32 PM

For your perusal and edification:

Extract from "Record of Events for the Forty-eighth Tennessee Infantry (Nixon's) November ‎‎1861 - February 1864"‎

‎(Supplement to the Official Records, Vol. 67, Records of Events, Broadfoot Publishing ‎Company, http://www.broadfootpublishing.com/cg_ref.htm)‎

Company E [Tullahoma, Tennessee]‎

On February 25, 1863 [Marcus Logan] Martin had stolen from him while on prisoner ‎duty the following articles: one cartridge box, $2.50; one cartridge box belt, $1.00; one cap ‎pouch, $1.00; one bayonet, $5.00; one waist belt, $.75; one gun sling, $.35; forty cartridges, ‎‎$10.00 [i.e., 25 cents apiece]; fifty-two caps; five _______ equal $2.60. Was relieved from ‎payment by recommendation [of] court martial.‎

JAMES C. COOPER,‎ Captain,‎
Company E, Forty-eighth Regiment,‎
Tennessee Volunteers.‎

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

huntdaw

05-07-2004, 03:13 PM

I came across this little tidbit that I found interesting and thought would be a good addition to this discussion.

Levi Wagner of the 1st Ohio lost a lot of his stuff at Chickamauga. After the initial successful push on Missionary Ridge he set out to replace some of it:

"When we struck the crest I never halted, for my mind was set on some Rebel knapsack, so down the opposite side of the ridge I went. As I got part way down a Rebel soldier jumped up from behind a log in front of me and said "don't shoot, I surrender." I asked him where his gun was, to which he replied that it was behind the log. I looked back, and seeing an officer told him to go back and report to him. I might have fixed by bayonet on my gun, marched him back to the colonel and delivered him up after telling a long story of how I had captured him, but honors of any kind I never cared for. Besides was he not a voluntary prisoner? At all events, I never saw him again. I got his gun, fired out the cartridge, threw it on the ground and started in search of a knapsack. In the narrow valley at the eastern slope of the ridge I found an opportunity to make a good choice of knapsacks, as the ground was literally covered with them as though the Rebels had been perfectly panic-stricken, and in their haste to get away had divested themselves of every pound of weight they could possibly spare. After looking over a few I chose one which I thought would supply all my needs. Upon examining my prize I found a good government blanket, two shirts, two pairs of drawers, a pair of light summer pants, a night cap, a plug of tobacco, and a cornpone."

hireddutchcutthroat

05-16-2004, 04:48 AM

I have a recipe for making the chemical to paint onto the canvas/ducking. I am in need of dimensions for making an oilcloth. Also recomendations as to what kind of grommets to put onto one of the oilcloths I am making. I want to do this right. Please Help.

Is this for "Oil Cloth" or "Painted Cloth"?

James Masson

05-16-2004, 12:56 PM

A safety comment here, I believe some of the traditional means of treating canvas use sources known to be hazardous in California (somebody else help me out here, I don't recall the specifics :( ) Personally, I wouldn't sleep overnight with my face close to one (when the average life span was less then fifty, many folks avoided cancer by dying!)

I know this won't add to the conversation but I don't think there is any substantial health risk to sleeping on a ground cloth made to a period recipe. Linseed oil, lampblack and japan dryer are only dangerous if consumed or their fumes are inhaled and once the paint is dry it's no longer dangerous. I've seen a recipe that called for lithrage (lead oxide) but you can't even buy that anymore so it's a non-issue. I think dying from sleeping on a ground cloth made to a period recipe should be the least of his worries.

hireddutchcutthroat

05-16-2004, 01:34 PM

Also, another 'believe it or not,' James Country Merchantile makes the only good painted cloth groundcloths I've seen by a vendor.

WHAT!? That is not exactly what passes for an approved vendor.

hardtack1864

05-16-2004, 03:18 PM

Well, he did say their painted ground cloth was the best and not their uniforms. Also if they use latex paint, then of course it is not authentic and should not be discussed anymore.

hendrickms24

05-18-2004, 06:56 AM

1stMaine

05-18-2004, 07:55 AM

Comrades,
I have to admit that I prefer a knapsack over a blanket roll. Two reasons stand out for me. The first is that my blanket remains dry, as does all the other stuff I put into it. The second is that I don't need anybody else to help me twist it or roll it up and tie it off.
Comrade hendrickms24 also makes a very good point about overheating with a blanket roll, and I have experienced this myself, as well as seen it effect others. One advantage that a knapsack has over a blanket roll is the ability to tie off a fry-pan to it, or hang a boiler off the back without baging it against your leg.
Anyway, that's my two-cent's worth.
Respects,

billmatt04

05-18-2004, 10:43 PM

Hello all,
I have a question concerning knapsacks and the little loop of leather that is between the shoulder straps at the top. I used the "search" option and could not find anything on them. What was their official use? Reenactors have told me to slip a small stick or dowel rod through it to support the straps so that it doesn't rip the stitching. Any information would be greatly appreciated. Just trying to do all I can to improve my impression. Thanks a lot!

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
Pvt. 104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

markmason

05-18-2004, 10:54 PM

Rear Guard

05-18-2004, 11:16 PM

Can't say I know for sure, but it may've come in handy when crossing a river in chest deep water to slip the loop over your bayonnet on musket and lift your gear out of the water to keep it dry....or tie a rope through to hang or carry it. I find it too small to really get a finger through for carrying.

Jeff Lawson
Rear Guard

billwatson

05-18-2004, 11:45 PM

If you put a stick through that loop and through the straps holding your greatcoat or blanket roll on top the knapsack, it will have the effect of pulling that part of the load closer to the vertical centerline of your body-- the "fore and aft" line -- it's not hanging "out" the back and leveraging you backward. That is not why the loop is there -- it's for a barracks peg -- and I have no idea if any civil war soldier ever used it in this way. I do know it helps a little with the load.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

05-19-2004, 03:01 PM

Hallo Kameraden!

During my early daze in the Texas Brigade, I favored a blanket roll for a variety of "non reasons:"

1. It looked "cool" (later renamed kewyl) and "hardcore" (later renamed campaigner).
2. It was cheap (I already had a blanket, so there was no extra expense for a knapsack).
3. Almost everyone was going to blanket or bed rolls.
4. It looked "cool" (later renamed kewyl) and "hardcore" (later renamed campaigner).

Then I switched over to a knapsack.
The knapsack enabled me to better organized; have a dry blanket and dry clothes (shirt, drawers, and socks) for night; I could put it on by myself in a few seconds; and I did not have to pack and repack its contents timed with the bugler(s) every morning to make formation...

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

79th N.Y.S.M.

05-20-2004, 10:00 PM

Bill... That is how I was told to use it! That is the only reason, I my opinion, that it would seem to be used for.

1stMaine

05-20-2004, 11:16 PM

TeamsterPhil

05-20-2004, 11:17 PM

The beautifully restored and furnished enlisted mens' barrack at Fort Larned Nat'l Historic Site has all their knapsacks hanging from pegs by the loop betwen the shoulder straps.

Phil Campbell

Bill Cross

05-21-2004, 09:24 AM

Comrade,
Actually, an easier way to shift the blanket up and forward and keep the knapsack from drooping is to take a small sapling and run it underneath the greatcoat/blanket straps, and also underneath the knapsack straps. It works much better than the loop method.
respects,

I think a more authentic solution than the greatcoat straps is to use some twine of some variety. Didn't the regulations stipulate that the greatcoat straps would be tied around the coat when it was turned in for the Summer months?

ADJ28NC

05-25-2004, 10:56 AM

This was my first "authentic-" style event, so bear in mind that these observations are coming from the perspective of a "heavy" campaigner.

What didn't work for me:
1) wee, little, tiny, CW signs on the interstate that I missed when I reached for another Dorito
2) forging straight ahead through brush and swamp when we could have marched by the flank through passages behind a screen of skirmishers.
3) turnips
4) a farby orderly sergeant's notebook - sweat turns it into oatmeal
5) a too-small penknife

What worked for me:
1) packing light - I'll never use an A-frame again
2) extra twine (even if my captain commandeered most of it for his shebang)
3) extra socks (especially after Saturday night's rain)
4) behaving military
5) bacon is good
6) hardtack is good too
7) picket duty (even if we were left out all night)
8) flank attacks are fun, with or without orders
9) hearing Chris Anders give orders in tongues before falling down - again!
10) I think sweat neutralizes poison ivy
11) lister bags (do I hear an 'Amen?')
12) drawers with ties at the ankles - only two ticks got through
13) all the pre-ITW advice and training I received from my pard - thanks Chris Hartwig

I can sum up my general impression of RECON III this way: I woke up just after midnight on Sunday morning, hyperthermeating and soaked from laying in two inches of groundwater under a leaky oilcloth, after having been without sleep for 42 hours, and I thought to myself, "This is the coolest thing I have done in a long time."

Maybe I'm just too stupid to know any better, but I had a blast. Thanks for opening this event up to those of us who want to improve our impression and intensify our experience.

John McCullough
fresh old fish

Wild Rover

05-25-2004, 11:58 AM

John,
Glad to have you with us....looking back on all the misery makes me laugh now and realize just how much fun was had.

It also makes me think about how realistic it was.

And it makes me appreciate all the good friends we had with us in the 14th. I think that Regiment would have taken Hades if ordered.

I am working on an article for the CCG on the event from the view of the 14th. If you have any comments for that email them to me at ltcolcsa@hotmail.com

Good to see you out there, and don't be a stanger!

Pards,

CYoungJSU

05-26-2004, 11:31 PM

All-

I found this article, dated April 14, 1864, in The Mobile Daily Register and Advertiser. I thought it may be of some use to this discussion.

p. 1, c. 7

Knapsacks have fallen into general discredit and disuse in the Confederate armies, and in division [sic? derision] of them the soldiers call them "hand organs." Whenever a company or regiment is seen marching with "knapsacks slung" the taunt is sure to follow: "I say, you've got your organs; where's your monkey? You left them behind, expecting to find bigger and better monkeys down here," &c.
A blanket and oilcloth twisted into the shape of a boa constrictor, and slung about the shoulders of the soldier, is the light equipment for heavy, rapid marching now.

Chris

hendrickms24

05-30-2004, 07:44 AM

Mr. Boliver,

Are the straps to small for you? I know I had to adjust my straps to the last holes. If I had to carry my knapsack with a Great Coat on I would be in trouble, but I’ve heard that some of the venders have larger straps made just for the bigger reenactors. I have noticed when I carry my knapsack that each time I put it on it feels different. I know that sounds weird but its true. :confused_

MassVOL

05-30-2004, 08:02 AM

You may want to try and run a stick or small branch under the straps and threaded through the blanket roll straps. It keeps the blanket closer to the body and up high and you dont get that just about to fall over feel. May also help with the straps cutting in.

punkinhead

05-30-2004, 10:14 AM

I am 6'1" and weigh about 205lbs, so were pretty similar in size. I have been to many events that required a lot of marching and used to experience the same cutting pain. I have found that the knapsack is not what cut into my shoulders, but rather the suspenders were causing the pain. I finally got some pants that fit and didn't need suspenders. The difference was noticeable. Yesterday I did a living history at a musuem for six hours and was fine. Some of my pards wear belts in lieu of suspenders for the same reason. Give it a try. I can't promise it will work for you, but it has helped me tremendously.

Andrew Pecquet
16th La "Walker Roughs"

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

05-30-2004, 11:38 AM

Hallo Kamerad!

Not to overlook the obvious, but to add...

Do you have 20 pounds of knapsack "contents," or like one lad I know- have a 70 pound knapsack that it takes two men to lift? ;-)

While adjusting the strap positions for the "optimum," or "cheating history" a bit by substituting longer straps for taller men, sometimes it just comes down to getting conditioned, hardened, and "used to" to the curse of "strap bite." :-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
That Which Cannot Be Cured, Must Be Endured Mess

GrumpyDave

05-30-2004, 06:57 PM

The only way I've found to make a knapsack comfortable is to leave it at home and wear a blanket roll. :wink_smil

tmdreb

05-31-2004, 01:14 PM

Perhaps letting the straps out all the way isn't the answer. I've found that mine (Mex War pattern) rides better and more comfortably when it's hiked up more. I try to keep the top of the knapsack as even as I can with my shoulders. I'm close to your physical dimensions as well. Try it, perhaps it'll work for you.

James Masson

05-31-2004, 01:30 PM

Pards, Thanks for all the advise. I take the blanket roll straps and run them through the shoulder straps to keep the blanket roll close to my body. The shoulder straps are let out to the last adjustment hole. I guess I carry around 30 pounds when I'm on a march. Thanks again.

Don't but the blanket roll on the top. Fold up the blanket and put it in one of the pockets or between the two pockets. Also, try cutting down the weight you carry...30 lbs. is a little heavy. Just my .02.

bluebellybugleboy

05-31-2004, 06:06 PM

sir;
as said duly before letting the straps out will only cause the shoulders to be fatigued becasue the equiptment is bieng pulled down more than if they are fitted. they is a great problem faced by many a boy scout as we go backpacking.
the trick stated earlier with the stick through the blanket roll or blanket straps hooking on it is used because the stick pulls the straps up and it is held on lower on the body then with out . for instance on most modern backpack's, on the top of the strap, you'll find an adjustible strap that will pull the strap up or let it go down lower this is the same principle . instead of bieng held on by the top of the shoulder it is held on by the front part of the shoulder. I'm not sure if this helps , if I find anymore info in backpacker magazine I'll get it on here.

flattop32355

06-01-2004, 12:58 AM

Pards,
Can someone tell me how to make my knapsack more comfortable. I'm 6'1" and weight 210lbs, and wear a size 46 jacket. The problem is the sholder straps cuts into me after a short period of time. I've ck. the search menu and could not find any info on this. Thanks in advance.

Another possibility, if they will reach that far, is to run the "crossing straps" down to your belt and hook them there, rather than across your chest. That was the original intent for them, but the belts with appropriate holes/connectors were never issued. It can help keep the knapsack pulled more forward and high and has the added advantage of keeping your belt up higher. Just depends on how long your torso is.

Fod

06-01-2004, 06:31 PM

30 pounds? Might be time to reconsider what you're packing.
My knapsack holds:

1 Blanket
1 gum blanket
1 shelter half
1 pr socks
1 shirt
1 sleeping hat
1 toothbrush
1 piece soap
1 small huck towel

I doubt it weighs more than 12 pounds, and I consider everything after the first 4 or 5 items as optional. I the winter I'll use a heavier blanket and might consider an overcoat but still that's all well under 20 pounds. The only other things I might put in there are extra rounds (if I ever go back to infantry ;) ), a writing set, a change of drawers, more socks on a march, and a housewife. What else could you possibly need?

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

06-01-2004, 08:22 PM

Hallo Kameraden!

"but the belts with appropriate holes/connectors were never issued."

Just a brief minor point of clarification... not "never" but rather on a "limited" basis.
The sliding brass keepers for the knapsack hooks appeared on the 1855 "rifleman's belt."

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

hireddutchcutthroat

06-01-2004, 09:08 PM

Contents of my pack are:

1 Big heavy copy of the 1851 Köjhusmuseet blanket
1 Shelter Half
1 Rubber Blanket
1 Sewingkit
1 Extra Pair of Socks
1 Extra Army Shirt
1 Pipe
1 Bag of tobacco
1 Towel
1 Bar of Soap.
1 Gun Rag
1 Tin of Flour of Emory

Total weight 16.25 Lbs.

marine05

06-01-2004, 09:09 PM

Part of the problem is that the pack straps are narrow. When I enlisted in the Marine Corps we used the M1941 pack system, the same one you see in the WWII movies. The straps were about 1.25 inches wide and would cut with any about of weight. Having looked at the CW straps they would have the same problem. If you noticed today's military and civilian packs have much wider straps and the weight is better distributed. Another problem is that many people tend to wear a pack too low, pulling down on the shoulders and making the wearer arch their back, causing back pain.

The suggestions offered here are terrific. Wear your pack high and tight. After the first ten minutes of a march, adjust your gear, anything that is uncomfortable will appear by then. Adjust your gear, at the next rest stop, repack if necessary so that all the heavy items are at the bottom and not pulling back from the top of the pack. Packs are never very comfortable over all, after the first 100 miles or so you just kind of get used to the pain and shut it out.

Happy humping,

DJM

BrianHicks

06-01-2004, 10:25 PM

Knapsack and Comfort?!?!? Isn't that an oxymoron? :sarcastic

30 pounds? This past winter when I packed two blankets, gum blanket, groundcloth, extra shirt, extra socks and other minor sundres, the weight only came up to 23 pounds.

markmason

06-01-2004, 11:21 PM

Learn to deal with the discomforts.

My knapsack carries everything I need to sustain life.

1. Blanket
2. Shelter
3 1 pr socks
4. deck of cards
5. mirror ( not sure why)
6. chew
7. mending kit
8. dime novel (never read)
9. pipe (chew is easier)
10. licorice pipe candy (thanks Matt Woodburn)

total wieght = 8lbs

Carried easily at Pickett's Mill

OleMissRebel

06-02-2004, 12:06 PM

I'm 6'2, 200 pounds and used to have discomfort wearing one until I, this sounds crazy, made the straps extremely tight. It seems that the tighter the pack is on you, the less stress there is on your body. My pack now just feels like part of my body, it doesn't feel like i'm toting a bag around on my back. Plus, as someone suggested earlier, I attatch the crossing straps vertically to my belt, this also helps hold my belt up high where I like to wear it. My knapsack now is quite comfortable and has been for years. I think you just to have to do what makes you comfortable, each man is different.

Moonshine

06-04-2004, 11:23 AM

Try this:

I would do this when getting a new pair of cleats way back when I played baseball and it worked for me.

Dip the straps (not the entire knapsack) in a tub of hot water - not boiling - but hot enough for you as if you're showering or bathing. Once the straps are soaked and saturated, let the water out of the tub and allow them to drain with the water. Now put your coat on and the knapsack and wear it around the house tugging and pulling on the straps as you go or do some chores where you need to move around a lot. Excess water will drip off so keep a towel or an old rag handy to wipe away the moisture. You'll find as the leather starts to dry (in just a matter of minutes) that they will conform to your body just as my cleats would do to my feet.

Now, once the leather is almost completely dry, apply some neatsfoot oil. The oil will loosen the leather even more and make them stretch plus make them more supple plus, it will keep the leather from drying out and becoming brittle. Then a couple days later (once the leather has had a chance to completely dry) apply another coat of neatsfoot oil and wear the knapsack one more time.

This worked for me on 2 knapsacks and several shoes besides gloves and cleats.

Jim Ross

bluebellybugleboy

06-04-2004, 11:48 AM

jaron_hudgins

06-04-2004, 08:51 PM

Just be sure not to put neatsfoot on your laces as I had two pair rot to pieces because of using neatsfoot on them. While neatsfoot can be good for some leathers, it can also damage and weaken leather after a while. I used neatsfoot on my leather M-1 Garand rifle sling and although it made it look good, you can easily see where much more use will render the sling useless.
I now use Lexol leather care and Picard oil on my leather gear. Just some stuff I've experienced.
Jaron Hudgins

Rmhisteach

06-27-2004, 03:21 PM

The famous picture of the confederate prisoners at the RR after Gettysburg has a solider with a blanket roll commonly called a weedhopper. That has always been my preference

justthemiller

06-27-2004, 09:51 PM

Hello All,

I think that something folks are forgetting about is the simple fact that the actual soldiers in the field quite often did not have a choice of whether they sported a knapsack or blanket roll in the field. Things being what they were on campaign the common soldier more often than not went without a lot of items that we, as living historians/campaigner types routinely bring along. Such varied items as handkerchiefs, spoons, socks, shoes, and quite often blankets were either lost, wore out or dumped when going into action, only to never be seen again till the next issue (which often enough was weeks away). One must remember that the only two things that a soldier was guaranteed to receive on a regular basis while on campaign was ammunition and sustanance. And latter could be tricky at times! Everything else was basically a luxury and was not taken for granted by the common soldier. I know that a lot of folks prefer one item over the other but one must bear in mind that it wasn't always a choice of what the common soldier would have liked, but more of what they actually had. Take care.

DougCooper

06-28-2004, 04:14 PM

James has hit upon why both are good - you had what you had. Our task these days is to find out what they did have at the particular instance. Takes work but even if you have to infer the equipment profile from the next brigade over, it is worth it from an accuracy standpoint.

For Franklin we know the 6th/15th Texas may have had fed doublebags in prepoderance because of a letter from a soldier describing finding a pile of them "as tall as a house." Other times you may be sans knapsack based on the entire unit unslinging and never seeing them again, such as a number of federal regiments during the 7 Days for example. Others times, like the quote above, it may even have been "fashion."

I often wonder if some of the negative knapsack comments in period accounts might have been partly due to a notion that new soldiers had knapsacks, vets often did not if the supply situation did not keep up. Often veteran troops adopt an attitude of superiority based on how they look as much as how they fight. A light traveling, lean veteran in a blanket roll might have been the "thing" for the troops, who having no choice, might come to see it as a badge of sorts. There are several posts above that talk to the utility of blanket rolls in terms of not tossing it aside as readily as a knapsack prior to combat - a "learned" experience, again a vet thing.

And to add to that, it would not unreasonable to assume some troops, after having gone without for so long, might actually not remember the utility of a knapsack, having done just fine without.

There is a wonderful quote from a soldier in the 16th TX dismounted cav at Mansfield who removes his own knapsack and picks up another from a dead federal soldier "it being a good one." They certainly were not all created alike and/or this soldier's had worn out and he was grabbing another.

billmatt04

07-07-2004, 12:14 PM

Pards,
I was wondering if there is any documentation or period pictures of northern soldiers keeping their gum blankets/ponchos folded up and tucked into their belts or straps. I have seen several reenactors do this and it seemed a pretty handy way to carry the blanket ()easy access if it starts to rain on the march). Anyway, I don't know if this is a reenactorism or not, so if anyone can help me out I would appreciate it.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois

markj

07-07-2004, 02:02 PM

Hi,

I do think there is some evidence for the practice you mention but I'll have to do some digging. In the meantime, this might be of interest to you:

(Corporal Frederick Pettit to Evan Pettit, "Camp opposite Fredericksburg, Va. Jan. 13th 1863")

"In the morning we were ordered to be ready for picket a 9 o'clock. We do not take our knapsacks and tents, but roll our woolen blankets in gum ones and tying the ends together throw them over the shoulder. We also take our canteens and haversacks with all the grub we cn get for we eat a great quantity on picket. Our guns and cartridge boxes complete the rig."

Source: Gavin, William G., ed. "Infantryman Pettit: The Civil War Letters of Corporal Frederick Pettit [Company C, 100th 'Roundheads' Pennsylvania Volunteer Infantry]." New York: Avon Books, 1990.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

RN_PAC

07-07-2004, 02:36 PM

Matthew-

As a point of interest, one of Charles Reed's sketches that illustrate "Hardtack and Coffee" shows an infantryman with a gum-blanket folded over his waistbelt and worn on his back. The fellow is drawn on something like a three-quarter view to the front (I am using my memory) but you can easily extapolate from the image what is going on. Granted, this is not as valid as a photograph or first-person account, but Reed was an astute observer, and even though not a "ground pounder" (he was an artillery bugler in the 9th Mass. Battery) probably observed this being done in the field.

I think the sketch is called "Flankers"; at any rate, that is what it is illustrating...flankers along a marching column.

Just as an aside, I like keeping my rubber blanket folded between the halves of my double bag knapsack- that way you just reach back and slide it out from the side without undoing anything (or get someone to do it for you). However, for light marching order excursions, one might not have a pack anyway.

Sorry, rambling...

Best Regards,
Tom

hardtack1864

07-07-2004, 02:43 PM

On page 347 and page 379 of Hardtack and coffee, there are men carrying their gum blankets on there belts, but Reed also shows almost every man with bloused trousers in his drawings, even while men are in camp :sarcastic . That includes during and after the war drawings, so that means he's a farb? LOL Though really every thing is great in H&C, written by people who were there. Hope that help Matt.

markj

07-07-2004, 02:50 PM

hardtack1864

07-07-2004, 03:04 PM

I have carried a gum blanket on my belt at an event, but it was hard to put it on the belt and it pulls the belt down, but other than that, it works great, though of course I have only seen this done in H&C. Just my 2 cents

CJSchumacher

07-07-2004, 03:22 PM

Yes, "Hardtack and Coffee" is likely the artistic source I was thinking about.

There seem to be as many ways to carry gum blankets as there are troops. Another common method is to simply wrap the blanket around the lower end of your roll allowing it to be easily detached when needed. Of course, as I've mentioned before, the issue of wearing blanket rolls was often decided at a higher level since troops were directed to, "Pick one or the other...but not both."

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

There is a confederate wearing such an arrangement in the prisoners taken at Five Forks photograph. Not sure its waterproofed, but a blanket or cloth none the less.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=6&pos=23

BobSullivanPress

07-07-2004, 03:52 PM

I know this is an old thread, but I finally found the picture I was looking for. It's the one taken of Confederates in the street at Frederick Maryland in 1862 during the Antietam campaign. Or it's the one taken of Confederates in the street at Frederick Maryland during Early's 1864 campaign, depending on whom you believe.

Anyway, it's all there, in glass plate black and white for anyone who cares to look. It's one company of Confederates, in ranks but at rest, waiting for something (or someone). You can see about 60 people clearly in the picture.

About half have knapsacks, and half have blanket rolls.

Darn, and I thought we'd get the definitive answer. :D

rebyank

07-07-2004, 04:48 PM

I have seen pics of span-am through WWII soldiers carying waterproof cloths on belts and on straps, so this isn't a modern idea. I'd figure it's a perfectly period way to do it anyway.

granted I never wear mine, as the only time my tunic gets washed is when it rains. :wink_smil

1stMaine

07-07-2004, 05:35 PM

RyanBWeddle

07-07-2004, 06:36 PM

Comrade,

My company carried their ponchos folded and looped through the back of the web belt when I went through basic at Fort Knox in '74. Later, when I went into the Navy, the new recruits at San Diego NRTC were carrying their utility jackets folded and looped through a white web belt.
It only shows that said manner of conveyance was practical, and was continued by the military up through the mid 70's.
respects,

It's common sense, you find a way to carry your stuff. I was at West Point for the 4th and the new class of cadets was on parade, all they had were ponchos and their canteens (slinged). When they marched into the bleachers for the concert that evening at Trophy Point, I saw some cadets had tightly folded their camo ponchos around or behind the canteen cover...

You do what you can with what you have...

Of course in our world, make sure it's simplistic enough to "pass" historically but not so out of bounds that it raises eyebrows...

Lone_Rebel87

07-07-2004, 07:26 PM

I'd have to respectfully disagree with the fellars about stuff always breaking in their blanket roll (as with the knapsack its all in how you pack it) I myself am currently carrying a blanket roll and prefer it but am looking to buy a good double bag soft knapsack as well. ;)

Jordan Davis

hardtack61

07-07-2004, 11:10 PM

pards,
Ive seen a reliable militia picture of an early war soldier in gray or maybe maybe just a VMI cadet wearing a gum blanket tucked into his belt like the one man is describing... Ive never had the chance to try it because ive never had the need to. Just My 2 cents :D

wigwagger

07-08-2004, 09:58 AM

I personally tuck my ground cloth inbetween my roll and my body. i have tried to wrap it around my blanket roll, but my blanket is longer than my gum blanket. is there a certian way to roll it to make it work? I would love to know.
333 Regards,
Andrew Zetts

billmatt04

07-08-2004, 12:07 PM

Thanks fellas. I had tried to wrap my wool blanket in my gum blanket and through it over my shoulder, but I figured it would be really hard to get at if we were marching and it suddenly started to rain. So I think I will go with tucking it in my belt. Most of the time I wear a knapsack, but I am always wanting to try something new, so I decided to go to my next event with nothing but those two blankets. Since it is expected to rain, I wanted to figure out how to quickly prefent a thorough soaking of my blanket and uniform, so this seemed the best method of carrying the gum blanket. Thanks a lot for the advise and if anyone can find any pics of Federal troops weraing them like this I would love to see them. Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

Stonewall_Greyfox

07-08-2004, 08:32 PM

Maybe I am doing this right...possibly not...when I attach my rolled blanket and oilcloth to the top of my doublebag knapsack, it sags tremendously. If I am to carry this are there any recomendations as to what I may do to make it better for long hauls? If not then I totally understand why some men would have opted to use blaket rolls and lose the knapsacks all together.

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

07-08-2004, 08:43 PM

Hallo Kamerad!

For my druthers and experiences, I avoid it altogether.

I carry the rolled greatcoat on top, and when not "greatcoat season," it and its straps are at the Quartermaster's.
I carrry the blanket inside of the knapsack pocket (bag), with the folded gum blanket and shelter half between the "bags. (It also helps as rain is about to start as the gum blanket can be easily and readily removed form between the "bags" wihtout a big production.

If you are experiencing "sag," are you straps all adjusted to their minimum "holes" and "adjustments," or more particularly adjusted to the width of your shoulders and breadth of your chest?

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Die Rucksacker Mess

poncho

07-08-2004, 08:52 PM

Paul,
Try passing the blanket straps over the shoulder straps and then buckle them. The shoulder straps when strapped on will pull the blanket up higher eliminating the sag, I've done this for years and it works great!

Lone_Rebel87

07-08-2004, 08:58 PM

Sorry bout that fellas,
I walked away from the comp for a time with this post pulled up before I replied and when I finally came back and clicked submit others had gotten to it and answered the question for me,

My apologies,
Jordan Davis

tenfed1861

07-09-2004, 09:32 AM

I've never packed one,but here's what I read.Pack the blanket into the bag closest to your back,so it takes the weight off.Next,place your personal items,extra cloths,extra rations,and ammo in the outer bag,(tip,carry your personal items in your socks so they won't get "lost").Carry your shelter halve in between the bags.Carry your ground cloth on the top where the balnket should go;you'll need to cut acouple of holes in the blanket straps.If it looks like rain,carry the cloth under your belt.Carry the pack high on your shoulders so the weight isn't pulling down.Do this and all the weight,i.e. the blanket,will be next to your back so not to strain your shoulders.
Hope this helps.
Your obed. servent,
Cullen Smith

Tom Ezell

07-09-2004, 10:47 AM

Maybe I am doing this right...possibly not...when I attach my rolled blanket and oilcloth to the top of my doublebag knapsack, it sags tremendously. If I am to carry this are there any recomendations as to what I may do to make it better for long hauls?

Paul:

Put all that stuff INSIDE the knapsack. Uncle Sam's stuff (blanket, poncho, and shelter half) go in the four-flapped folding side, more or less in that order. Personal stuff spare dry socks, personal toiletries, and maybe a couple spare packs of cartridges go in the outer, envelope side. All that other stuff, let it slide, pard, let it slide.

Tom

Strawfoot

07-09-2004, 11:29 AM

A reason your blanket is sagging, if you fold it and put it on top, is that there is nothing in the inner bag to hold it up. Fold your blanket and put it in the inner bag. You can probably get a shelter half in there too.

Place your folded groundcloth between the bags before you close and strap up the knapsack. As said earlier, that makes it easy to get to in rain. I use an extra knapsack "J" clip to secure it around me.

Place spare shirt and socks in the outer bag. A note here... I place my peach can boiler in there, and put my extra ammo in it for added safety.

If it is brutal cold, I roll up my greatcoat and tie it up top, routing the blanket straps through the shoulder straps. This snugs everything down just fine, pulling your greatcoat forward, but will give you a significant load to tote on the march.

Better idea, blanket roll...

Mike Phineas
Arlington, TX

markj

07-09-2004, 11:35 AM

Paul:

Put all that stuff INSIDE the knapsack. Uncle Sam's stuff (blanket, poncho, and shelter half) go in the four-flapped folding side, more or less in that order. Personal stuff spare dry socks, personal toiletries, and maybe a couple spare packs of cartridges go in the outer, envelope side. All that other stuff, let it slide, pard, let it slide.

Tom

For your consideration from my copious ream of notes extracted from the "Official Records":

WAR DEPT G. O. 274, 7 Aug 63: Specifically spells out transportation and baggage ‎requirements/limitations (right down to exact poundage) for troops on campaign. States that ‎‎"knapsacks of infantry soldiers will also be frequently inspected to see that they are properly ‎packed and that nothing is carried in them except what is directed by regulations and ‎orders.***The underclothing should be packed in knapsacks next to the back."‎

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

JimConley

07-10-2004, 02:16 AM

Your other option, of course, being to wear a bedroll over the pack as seen in original photographs. Never carried it this way myself, but you're not adding weight by any means and that may be more comfortable than weighing down the knapsack by straping the blanket roll on top.

1stMaine

07-10-2004, 09:43 AM

Comrades,

I also pack my blanket inside my pack. In fact, many times I've folded the shelter half and gum blanket around the wool blanket and then packed it into the knapsack. Over the years it has been my experience that a nice dry blanket is more important than myself being dry. I would rather have my clothes get wet, as I can always dry them out by the fire, if needs be, but a wet blanket seems to gain weight on a logarithmic scale with the amount of water added. Just knowing that there's a dry blanket, and perhaps some dry socks and a dry shirt in my knapsack can keep me going. Something to look forward to:)
As to the blanket or greatcoat leaning backwards and dragging the pack down, instaed of running the shoulder straps through the greatcoat straps, use a piece of sapling. Run the sapling under the shoulder straps and through the greatcoat straps. It works much better, and uses up less area than the strap-through-strap method. In fact, it's a good place to carry those repro tent poles if you haven't yet used them for firewood.......

Respects,

79th N.Y.S.M.

07-11-2004, 12:16 AM

When i got my pack i had the same probles and what I did is I made a wooden frame and put it in the bottom and when you have nothing in there the pack still holds it shape and i so much stuff i put a little divider 2/3's of the way up

theknapsack

07-16-2004, 10:34 PM

Comrades,

I recentley purchased a C&D Jarnagin Gum blanket because I could not find any other vendor that sells "correct" gum blankets. I recieved it in the mail today and was suprised by the look of it. The rubber is not "shiny" (for lack of a better word), and the fabric gets darker as it gets closer to the center. The originals in EOG Union and at various museums I have been to have had both a more solid material and a more "shiny" look to them. Is the one that I got from Jarnigan correct or incorrect (besides the grommet size)?

Thanks,
Riley Ewen

JimKindred

07-16-2004, 11:04 PM

From Jarnagin it is the best you are going to do, their gum blankets have for many years had the dull finish. Some of it comes from the way they are shipped with a substance that keeps them from sticking together in shipment.

I have experimented from time to time to find a finish that will make a Jarnagin gum blanket shine but nothing has worked so far.

Use it and enjoy it, maybe one day someone will make one with the correct look to it.

DougCooper

07-17-2004, 01:23 AM

Or give up waiting and order a painted cloth ground sheet from Chris Daley - you know that one is correct. :wink_smil

theknapsack

07-17-2004, 01:32 AM

Or give up waiting and order a painted cloth ground sheet from Chris Daley - you know that one is correct. :wink_smil

Indeed.

Are you an advertiser for Mr. Daley? :sarcastic

Thank you both for your help, I shall take Mr. Kindred's advice to heart, for now. . .

Spongebucket

07-17-2004, 11:10 AM

Not saying that I am advertising for Jarnigan, but I think we have to look at some things concerning the gum blankets. First, we see the "shine" on both the haversack and poncho/gum blanket in the post war images for the QM Dept. and the few wartime images. Do you think that the photos show used items? And then look at the photos in EOG (our close to heart reference) at the groundcloths, haversacks and knapsacks. They have a "matte" finish. The painted items have what they have because of the litharge (lead based) in the paint. And as that is forbidden to use...what is to say that there was something in the original vulcanization process that throws up a red light with the EPA. This had been a problem in the past. So it is either you deal with what you have or get pneumonia because instead of using what was out there, you were looking for the perfect rubberized sheet.
Just my two cents.
Joe Blunt

DougCooper

07-17-2004, 01:07 PM

Above there is mention that the grommets were wrong on the current gum blanket - my impression based on the those unearthed in the sunken supply ship (no longer remember the name) was that they are correct (small size). In short, as Joe Blunt says, the current Jarnagin gum blanket is the best there is, indeed the only alternative. The Daley blanket is not a gum blanket but a painted cloth ground sheet identified to a Pennsylvania soldier. And no, I am not an advertiser for Chris, just passing the word about a new alternative hitherto under-represented.

Vuhginyuh

07-17-2004, 04:05 PM

Indeed.

Are you an advertiser for Mr. Daley? :sarcastic

Thank you both for your help, I shall take Mr. Kindred's advice to heart, for now. . .

Riley,
He is just pointing you in the direction of an authentic item from an approved vendor.

Agate

07-17-2004, 10:44 PM

We have enough surviving vulcanized rubber blankets (or vulcanized India rubber material regardless of goods) from our period to determine the "shine"? I was somewhat under the impression extant examples of those things are relatively scarce.

Mr. Ewen, I can direct you to two examples, bearing the stamps of Cincinnati contractor Bart & Hickox, that have no "shine" to them, IMO. These "western" examples were probably manufactured in New York however, as was much of what the firm dealt in. That according to their 1861 catalog, housed in the rare book room of the main branch of the Cincinnati Public library.

Mr. Cooper, imagine you are thinking of what was found aboard the former Maple Leaf.

Also, I can find no elastic/painted sheets or ground cloth contracts in House ExDoc 84 which lists the contracts made by the QMD for part of 1863 and all of 1864. There are contracts listed for yards of elastic cloth by the Philadelphia office, Philadelphia only. But, too few yards to be of much use to us, under eight thousand. Were these sheets purchased earlier, or, on the open market?

Quite a number of contracts for India rubber blankets. However, the QMD was purchasing several samples, priced differently, and all listed as India rubber blankets. That is, as with cloth, and clothing, several "grades" were listed, must have been some difference, as they are recorded as procured at not the same price. The different "grades" however, being recorded in most instances as procured from the same contractor(s).

. Anybody have an idea as to what the difference between a sample "A" and sample "B" was, what about a sample "C" India rubber blanket? They are, as stated, all listed as "India rubber" and neither elastic or painted blankets.

Charlie Childs is not an approved vendor. There are reasons to support the approved vendors of this forum, let us make sure we suggest to do so for the most fitting reasons.

Maybe one of those who reproduce these ground sheets, as I've seen them advertised by several folks on this board, will enlighten us as to provenance and method of manufacture, and assure us that no synthetics, or to what degree, synthetics are utylised in their manufacture, as we do wish to get things right, the size of grommets and "sheen" of the vulcanized rubber blankets being now, suspect.

John Sarver