Gunners Haversack

[Lazarus Driver]

I am in need of some Artillery discussion, so I am asking two things.
Has anyone seen an original Gunners haversack with an inside pocket?
If so what is the pocket for?
The ordnance manual does not say anything about an inside pocket.
Lets start talking!

Bill Thomas
Driver
Lazarus battery

[JWolf]

While I have not seen an original gunner's haversack I think the inside pocket is intended for extra primers for the #4 if he ran out of primers.

Jim Wolf
Scott's Battery

[Fauxban]

I mean, seriously, would you, as No. 5 or No. 7, carry FRICTION PRIMERS in the haversack in which you have one LIVE, fused round with a service charge of one to two & a half POUNDS of powder whilst RUNNING from the caisson to the muzzle?? Personally, I would not. Putting an ignition source in proximity to the device destined to be detonated seems the height of folly, contra-indicated, and devoid of common sense. Granted, an intact packet of fuses, or primers, would present less of a risk, but why incur any at all?

Like Bill, I've never seen an original with a pocket, or the external evidence to suggest one. A recent offer on Evil-Bait does exhibit a horizontal line of stitching on the back, similar to the reproductions with pockets I've examined. The Ordnance Manual does not call for one, nor is it mentioned in Gibbon, or French, Barry & Hunt. Nobody I've ever asked about pockets could provide a provenance, or answer what went in there. The re-pops are all too small to hold a fuse gouge or wrench, to my mind the only logical possible contents. But I would admire to have a definitive answer, ideally, at least one surviving original haversack, with a pocket, contents intact!!! I'll settle for primary documentation though, or a reasonable provenance.

Any help out there?? Anyone?? Makers, collectors, researchers??

As for the extra primers themselves, both No. 4 & No. 3 have them in their priming tube pouches. That should be sufficient for all but the most sustained engagement.

[sedlakchristopher]

Gents,

Nick Duvall just made us a new haversack and tube pouch, etc...
Nick is not on the approved vendors list that I can see, but probably should be. He researched these items and I'm pretty sure our new one has that inside pocket. He may be able to shed some light on the topic.
www.duvallleatherwork.com
duvall_leatherwork@hotmail.com
or
duvall_leather@hotmail.com


I have wondered ALSO what that dang pouch is for and no one has been able to give me a researched answer.

As for using the pouch for extra primers, I don't think that it is out of the realm of possibility considering they carried them in the tray right in the ammunition chest of the limber.
From the table of fire for a Parrott:
"2nd. Keep friction primers in their papers, tied up. The pouch containing those for instant service must be closed, and so placed as to be secure. Take every precaution that primers do not get loose; a single one may cause an explosion. Use plenty of tow in packing.
(This sheet is to be glued to the inside of Limber Chest Cover.) "

I tend to agree it may be a far stretch they would put primers in there, but DON'T PUT IT PAST THE US ARMY.

Hope to get a answer on the little pouch....

Your obedient servant,
Chris Sedlak

[Jim Mayo]

Something to think about. Original primer packages I have seen are blocks of wood with a hole for each primer and wrapped with paper much like the packages of fuses. If more primers were required at the gun, the packages would have been provided not a handful of individual primers.

[JWolf]

I should have been more clear in my origional post. What I implied, but didn't specify, was that only when the gun crew ran out of primers, then more primers could be delivered from the limber in the pouch in the haversack-- in their package. (i.e. period practice not modern reenacting practice).

For reenacting, I agree that primers should not be stored in the haversack's pocket nor would (or should) primers ever be stored "loose". Two seperate trips would be the safe procedure if the gun crew ever runs out of primers.

The Army did include 1 paper tube of caps in every package of cartridges for the infantry, but I don't think we can really infer anything from that practice that might apply to the artillery.

Another question that might help:

How long did the Army use that pattern haversack and is possible that the pouch was added to the design post-Civil War?


Jim Wolf

[Mbond057]

Bill,

Hello!

I also don’t have a correct answer for the inside pocket of the Gunner’s Haversack. I have read hundreds of letters written by artillerymen from both the North & South and not one has mentioned the use of the inside pocket of the Gunners Haversack in any of their communications.

I don’t believe it was used to carry extra friction primers. Even the safety procedures of the 19th century recognized a need to protect and carry the artillery round forward of the limber using a leather “Gunners Haversack” to protect the round from an ignition source. Adding and carrying an ignition source (friction primers) within the Gunners Haversack is not logical, even for that days thinking.

With all the modern safety procedures used to make firing the big guns safe, we can still work on our impression and strive for an authentic representation.

Thanks for starting this excellent discussion.