How would you rate your own authenticity?

[paulcalloway]

A few years ago we ran a poll and asked the visitors to the AC to rate their own authenticity. I'm curious how that poll would look today.

[ElizabethClark]

There's still no good designation for those who have a progressive mindset, are determined not to cave to modern thought, and get called "stitch counting thread nazi" on a regular basis... but perhaps that's as it should be. (I just delete those emails, anyhow.)

:)

[KarinTimour]

Rating your authenticity seems to me to be a sort of multi-faceted issue -- there's the quality of your main impression, where you might have the gear and the mindset nailed. But what about secondary impressions?

To my mind, in terms of my gear, most of it is fine at this point -- for a lower class impression I'm ok, better in a Southern impression than a Northern one. Middle class is a stretch for me -- but I can manage shabby genteel pretty well. Upper class at this point is completely out of the question.

My knowledge of material culture is pretty sound, but I sometimes have difficulty operationalizing it. I can babble with conviction on a lot of topics.

In the abstract, I understand the Southern concept of "being a mannerly person means that you never back someone into a corner where they are embarrassed -- always give them a graceful out." But my Northern directness tends to trip me up in moments of stress, and I'll speak when sometimes I should just smile and nod.

I also don't have the period farming skills that should go with my impression -- I can't hitch or saddle a horse, drive one, or plow. I need to learn how to load and care for a gun -- though my aim is pretty good if someone else loads. I can milk a cow, though I've not done so for quite a while, and I've never attempted milking a goat. I've never been to a hog butchering, salted or smoked meat or made sausage. I'm learning to spin (thank you Terre Lawson!), but the current results are uneven. My sewing is very basic, patching and darning are pretty good. My crochet and tatting nonexistant. I'm pretty good at making a fire, but if it's a small stove I sometimes have difficulty keeping it going once I've gotten started -- I get too distracted with cooking and forget to keep stoking it. I'm a pretty fair cook and baker.

I need to know more about farming, especially tobacco, cotton, indigo, rice the main crops of the South. I especially need to know how these would be done on a small scale, since I don't suspect that I'll ever develop a plantation mistress impression.

I need better luggage and a means to keep the equipment I've got with me in the field more organized. I want to learn more words to songs, especially hymns. I need to read and know my Bible more. I want to learn Spencerian script and I'd love to learn the banjo.

I guess in terms of structuring a poll, are they always only one question? What about one that had a line for rating your gear, another for material culture (however you define that), a third on how developed your persona before the war is, and a fourth on ability to operationalize all that in the field?

Since this is a poll on the authentic campaigner board, what about moving from the "hardcore/progressive/farb" rating scale and going to a number rating. Say a 1-10 rating where 1 was most thorough, don't need to work on this much at all" and 1 was "starting out and trying to get a handle on what I need to know to make some better decisions this time around."

Food for thought,
Karin Timour
Atlantic Guard Soldiers Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[marlin teat]

The more I learn, the more I realize how much more I have yet to learn. Humility is essential to knowledge. Therefore I always refer to myself as still in the progressive stage.

[dusty27]

Not to be crude, but this question reminds me of why Americans don't size their male birth control items. Who is going to buy the small size?

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Uhhh well...

All my uniforms and equipent are based on surviving examples, and are made from the best the period materials and construction methods I can find. In the field or in garrison, I do my best to live in the manner that I feel the common soldier would have, through manerisms, speech, and lifestyle. So I imagine that you could lable me as a "Hardcore".

However I am always finding out more about 19th century folkways, material culture, and general history, which leads me to constantly change and upgrade my physical and first person impression. Not to mention trying to keep the beer belly, modern sayings, ideologys, and slang at bay.

So I feel I am a "Progressive".

[poncho]

It's tough to say, it depends on whose standards you are using. To a farb, I'm ultra hardcore, but to someone else I might be considered mainstream. I make every effort to have the most accurate clothing and traps I can afford. Regardless of what anyone says, it is very expensive to accquire well made, accurate equipment. What I find myself doing is buying the best I can afford and then modifying it to best resemble accuracy. Whenever I think I 'm up to par, I see someone that totally blows me away. Bottom line is that you can always improve, and making the effort to do so is what you should be judged on. In this case, I see myself as progressive, looking to break through to hardcore.

Pierre, you need to sign all of your posts with your full name - Mike Chapman

[2RIVB]

I personally would rate myself as progressive. I do the research. I buy the right gear. I have the right attitude. BUT, I go to all mainstream events, belong to a mainstream unit, and camp it with my girl.
Now the whys:
I go to mainstream events because I be long to a mainstream unit.

I belong to a mainstream unit because it is the unit I started with, and these guys are the best friends a person could ask for. I put loyalty above all else. These guys are like family to me, and I would never walk away from family. They may not be the most authentic guys, but I would put one of them up against 1,000,000,000 hardcores anyday.

Camping it with the girl; "If they had it back in 186X, they would have used it." (joking)

I personally believe in changing things from with in. I don't see need to force peoples hands. In my unit, I started buying more authentic items, and the guys would say to me, "THats really nice, where did you get that?" I would tell them, and then authenticity killer number 1 would come out, "How much did that set you back?" This is the first thing that puts mainstreamers away from authenticity. They hear cost. I know what your going to say, that it costs abbout the same, if not more to be mainstream, and this is true, but; item to item the cost scares them, here is an example:
Mainstreamer: "Nice frock coat."
Progressive: "Thanks!"
M: "Where did you get it?"
P: "I got it from CB Skillethead."
M: "Not to intrude, but how much did that set you back"
P: "About $500."
M: "$500!!!!" [Mainstreamer thinks to himself, I only paid $150 for mine from C&D Regimental, and it's close enough]

After a while you get some of them past the cost, because they really start to notice the difference in your gear vs. their, and how much better the quality is. (In my case, I finally got an authentic vendor to come to our local event) They see and feel the sack coat, and buy it, next thing you know, they have just bought an entire authentic uniform.

Then the 50% who didn't go authentic speak up. "I was at Event X, and the mainstream guys never said hello to us, and ignored us. What a bunch of @!*$#! Do you want to be like them?" I hate to say it guys, but, a lot of the supposed "c/p/h" guys I have run into have been real @$^!*. Whether these guys are authentics or not, they really represent a poor image on the entire c/p/h community. They sit back an laugh it up at the mainstream units. The talk down to the mainstream guys, on the rare occassions they acknowledge their presence. I have to say, they are the reason I shyed away from moving to progressive for a while. Then I ran into a few decent guys, who did right by me. They told me what authentic was, and not once did they knock me for not being c/p/h. They answered my questions the best they could, and sent me in the right direction to begin my research. But, alas, these type of people seem a rareity around here.

Then I found this web site, and I was impressed by the knowledge some have on here. But, I also found, a lot (before we have a hissy fit, I didn't say ALL) of guys on here who are or pose as c/p/h make down right insulting comments to newbies, and it drives them away. example:
M: "I think C&D Regimental is the best sutler ever, and really nice to deal with."
P: "You have got to be kidding, they haven't been cool since 1985, CB Skillethead is the place to go."
What a put off statements like this are. Now if this progressive had sent a private messege to this new guy, or an e-mail, and politely todl him why this was a mainstream vendor, and told him of better places to shop, and why they were better, this new guy might have been quite thankful, instead of leaving pissed off, and thinking, "c/p/h guys are a bunch of #@$*%." It's the few guys like this that ruin it for all. This story I told was adapted from a post that is still p on the boards. I generously made my response known in this gentleman's reputation, on this board. He is one of many of the guys who shouts his crap the loudest, and is the first one all the newbis hear. The guys out there that are decent need to be louder, so the mainstream crowd can see that the jerks are the minority. Paul's method seems to be the best approach, but if you wonder why mainstream event organizers feel shakey about letting c/p/h groups into mainstream events, it's because of the jerks who shout the loudest. My group has finally gotten a taste of authenticity, towards the end of last season, after all the mega events were over. I hope this season we avoid the jerks ou there long enough to keep them from losing their motivation. I also hope we run into some of those decent guys again, so we can exchange more ideas.

[MissMaggie]

I think a lot of where you rate also depends on where you live. Compared to the majority of Wisconsin females I'm hovering somewhere around progressive/hardcore. When I compare what I know and my general impression to those that live and attend events out east I feel like a total farb most of the time.

[theknapsack]

More or less, I belong to a "mainstream" unit only because I really haven't found any "progressive" or "harcore" units to join. There is one old Hardcore in my unit and he's the reason I got into Being Authentic, him being a very early Mudsil. I try my best and think I would put myself at progressive.

[mark11]

Being relatively new to the c/p/h movement I would say I am "progressing" to be as authentic as I can possibly be, without the dysentary and lice etc. I guess that makes me a progressive. I can only aspire to some day be called a hardcore.

[SCTiger]

Everyone:

If you rate yourself as a "progressive" or a "hardcore" but, people treat you like a farb, then it doesn't matter how good one thinks they are.

It's really a peer rating system. The farb is one that will rate themselves, regardless of the opinions of everyone else. If your self rating is derived from the honest opinions of others, then you have it. The farb is the one that doesn't listen and believes that carrying 14 spare Remington cylinders in a haversack is an accurate impression, even if every expert-historian told him/her that it was plain wrong, they won't improve because it's authentic to their mind.

One could be hardcore in mind, but seldom in practice. I am interested in hearing from anyone that rated themselves hardcore. What did you do to earn that ? Not being sarcastic, just want to know what is hardcore? Sleeping in the rain? (done that) Eating half-cooked bacon? (yes), Marching 14 miles in June in Georgia in full gear (oh yeah)? Is it buying the right gear? Reading tons of research material? Leaving the cooler at home ? Or is the type of events attended? If there are hardcore people then what are the hardcore events? Maybe the real hardcores never call themselves "hardcore."
They are just recognized as such.

I rated myself progressive, just in case you were wondering.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kameraden!

Hmmmmmm.
An impression/persona is what the person thinks it to be, what others think it to be, and what it really is...

For me, there is ONLY the pursuit of the elusive and ultimately unattainable "perfection" (Time Machine Test).
(Read as: some do not even have that goal or Mental Picture, and some are closer while others are further away).

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

I'll go ahead and be blunt with my answer... (not trying to have an ego trip either :wink_smil )

I rated myself as a hardcore simply because: Groups I belong to, uniforms/gear, events I attend, mindset/attitude, networking knowledge, portraying both US & CS eastern & western theaters, early, mid, and late war impressions.

I would have to say, I started progressing in the early 90's right out of high school. By 1993 I became hardcore (super authentic) right before I joined the mudsills Inc, which was the best move I ever made!

Feel free to check out my profile.... :baring_te

[2ndNHDOC]

How would you call someone starting into the more authentic crowd?
Progressive?

Brian Schwatka
Out of the Loop Mess :)

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

How would you call someone starting into the more authentic crowd? Progressive? Sure.... As long as you're improving your uniform/gear from "sutler row" to "authentic vendors," and changing your mindset.

Becoming authentic as possible is an on-going quest! Sometimes, it's not that easy..... takes work and research, to get to the top.

good luck,

Sweeds,

[Clark Badgett]

Aaron, don't go there ;) The Mudsills are alright, but few of them can properly portray Kentuckians, much less the peculiarities of Louisvillians. Or did they drop the "5th Ky, Louisville Legion" name lately. Careful about using the term hardcore, as the most authentic people I've ever known don't even use it. As for me, I'm just progressive, and I'll gladly go stitch for stitch with anyone.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

The Mudsills are alright, but few of them can properly portray Kentuckians, much less the peculiarities of Louisvillians. Clark, I dissagree with this statement. I've met many knowledgable historians in this group and some of the best impressions I've ever seen came out of the Mudsills.

Careful about using the term hardcore, as the most authentic people I've ever known don't even use it. That's pretty interesting. In my case, authentics I know, do use that term. The term is being used more often then it ever has in the past. I think people abuse that term also :wink_smil

[Milliron]

Aaron, don't go there ;) The Mudsills are alright, but few of them can properly portray Kentuckians, much less the peculiarities of Louisvillians. Or did they drop the "5th Ky, Louisville Legion" name lately. Careful about using the term hardcore, as the most authentic people I've ever known don't even use it. As for me, I'm just progressive, and I'll gladly go stitch for stitch with anyone.

Without diving into what is an inane argument (I dislike labels, and this poll begs flame wars)--if the poll asks you if you're a hardcore, and you decide you are, why disagree? This poll is akin to:

1. I'm awesome
2. I'm somewhat awesome
3. I'm OK
4. I'm a jerk

If I mark "1" am I being untruthful, or am I just short on modesty? After all, the poll asks me to decide. What qualifies one as a "hardcore?" Who are you to say?

Incidentally, I know Aaron well enough to vouch for him to make the claim to "hardcore," whatever that is. It doesn't seem fair to ask one to classify oneself and then to lambaste them for deciding they're the top echelon. I agree that most hardcores don't classify themselves so, but to do so (particularly when you are asked to), doesn't mean you aren't, just that you may not be as modest as others would like.

This is truly all I have to say on this topic.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Bob,

I appreciate the compliment.... You're right though, this is a touchy subject to some people. This thread can easily turn into a flame war.

[paulcalloway]

There was a time when we didn't have polls at all because they would frequently unravel into a pointless flame war. Thanks for keeping everything civil guys.

These aren't scientific polls... they are only here for curiosities sake.

[SCTiger]

Paul:

No flamming at all, Amen. Anyways in the modern military venacular, the hardcore soldier would be the one that scored the highest on physical fitness tests, had a superior appearence (uniforms, Ranger haircut), accepted the toughest assingments, was unaffected by the weather or conditions and was always looking for a new badge, (airborne, Ranger Special Forces.) Mostly they didn't mind the long hours and sweat. Most of all they are serious about being a soldier and it ceases being a job and becomes a lifestyle.

In the c/p/h I would have to classify a hardcore as someone that was intense and serious about the hobby. Now this wouldn't doesn't mean they would march 19 miles and dig a fox hole with their spoon. To me a hardcore would do everything possible to replicate the ACW soldier within safety & health reasons. No cheap shortcuts or excuses type. Again they are serious about the craft, are heavily involved and see the hobby as more than a fellowship in the woods. Most are misunderstood by their comrades who are enthusiastic but not as intense. The hardcore should be the advanced scouts of the hobby, develop new sources of information and serves as the ultimate example of what we could attain. I have quite a few people I would nominate as hardcore but, they would deny this.

Most assoicate hardcore with "macho" where the phony tough prove themselves with feats of physical stupidity, like starving 2 weeks prior to an event. If we are going to use the term, lets keep it honorable. Every hobby or sport will have an elite segment, might as well call them something! :D

[coastaltrash]

Even with good gear I still fall way short of the original boys, which is why i voted myself a farb.

Paul:

No flamming at all, Amen. Anyways in the modern military venacular, the hardcore soldier would be the one that scored the highest on physical fitness tests, had a superior appearence (uniforms, Ranger haircut), accepted the toughest assingments, was unaffected by the weather or conditions and was always looking for a new badge, (airborne, Ranger Special Forces.) Mostly they didn't mind the long hours and sweat. Most of all they are serious about being a soldier and it ceases being a job and becomes a lifestyle.

In the c/p/h I would have to classify a hardcore as someone that was intense and serious about the hobby. Now this wouldn't doesn't mean they would march 19 miles and dig a fox hole with their spoon. To me a hardcore would do everything possible to replicate the ACW soldier within safety & health reasons. No cheap shortcuts or excuses type. Again they are serious about the craft, are heavily involved and see the hobby as more than a fellowship in the woods. Most are misunderstood by their comrades who are enthusiastic but not as intense. The hardcore should be the advanced scouts of the hobby, develop new sources of information and serves as the ultimate example of what we could attain. I have quite a few people I would nominate as hardcore but, they would deny this.

Most assoicate hardcore with "macho" where the phony tough prove themselves with feats of physical stupidity, like starving 2 weeks prior to an event. If we are going to use the term, lets keep it honorable. Every hobby or sport will have an elite segment, might as well call them something! :D

[cavman63]

Patrick,
Amen Brother.

Patrick McAllister
Critter Company
W.I.G.

[2ndNHDOC]

Thanks I have three years to work on the impression.

Brian :)

Brian, it is a rule to sign your full name to all posts on this forum - Mike Chapman

[Miche_Todd]

I would label myself a progressive, since I am progressing from my beginings in the mainstream side of the hobby. I plan on only attending good, progressive events from now on, and am committed to researching everything I can to further my impression and knowledge. :-)

[GWilson]

I will have to agree with Patrick on this one. We are all farbs compared to original soldiers.

[PrettyBoyDonovan]

Well, I've done some thinking, and relaized I am a mainstream. I'd like to think of myself with a progresive mindset though. I'll soon start to aquire better gear and such. I've been trying to do little things to try and better my impresion so maybe by next year I'll be a progresive.

[dusty27]

While I agree with the sentiment that we will never achieve anything close to the originals, I think the question was intended to make the forum members to look at themselves and to grade their impression based on other reenactors and not the originals.

I think one of the posts explained that it was a difficult question based on so many aspects of reenacting. I think we need to ask ourselves; "What makes a PERFECT reenactor?" From there, you can compare yourself to that ideal and mark the poll where you feel it is appropriate.

I don't think anyone is presuming that they measure up in any way with soldiers in the Civil War. At least I hope not.

[County Militia]

I'd say I'm a progressive. I am a member of a unit who, if anyone would take a look at them, is mainstream. It's obvious to see that most of the unit (not everybody) doesn't put a huge amount of effort into their appearance. My understanding is that with them, comfort is the key.


I try to keep it half-way authentic, and am concious of the way I look at events. If I read reports or in doing research I find something that is contrary to my garb, I do the best I can to make it more period and authentic.


I'm not saying I'm the most authentic person in Missouri -- far from it. But if you were to compare me to the members of my battery, I would be on the progressive side of things.

[flattop32355]

Just for curiosity's sake, would it be possible to post some full length pictures of some of our more progressive/accurate reenactors (front, side, back) wearing full gear? It would help some of us poor, misguided 'streamers to compare our own gear to see where we can improve. Not a perfect solution, but from an over-all perspective, it would be of value.

[dusty27]

Bernard,

You could check the Image Gallery above

[bluebellybugleboy]

The more I learn, the more I realize how much more I have yet to learn. Humility is essential to knowledge. Therefore I always refer to myself as still in the progressive stage.

I agree i labeled myself mainstream but an alert popped up and said to try later . so I will. i'm pretty much a mainstream reenactor that is progressing slowly( getting closer every month, with allowence :wink_smil :D ).

[Miche_Todd]

Just for curiosity's sake, would it be possible to post some full length pictures of some of our more progressive/accurate reenactors (front, side, back) wearing full gear?

There have been a couple of article in Camp Chase Gazette with pictures such as these and a complete rundown of the gear. I'm sorry, I can't remember the title of the article or the dates. Sorry. Maybe some of the others on the list remember...

[pvtRB_4thOVI]

Just getting started, I would say i have average authenticity. I am working on it though. I don't have anything that is farb or unauthentic, but alot of stuff needs improving. There are alot of reenactors that i see that have been around longer, but are obviously unauthentic in their impressions. In several years I hope to be a step below hardcore.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Were is totally bychin Hardkewl?

[texandrummer61]

I've been thinking about this for a while. Someday I want to be able to
call myself hardcore-but that day is definently not today.
I am progressing quite quickly through the different levels of authenticity. I try my hardest to keep in first person
the whole event, but that is pretty hard when the men around around
you are talking about monday night football. I believe my uniform is on
par with authenticity- save for one or two items that I am working on upgrading. So- after all this ,I have come to the conclusion that I am on
the campaigner level - but still progressing. :)

Ian Broadhead
5th Texas co. A
Medich Battalion

[FedOfficer]

I think 2RIVB described my situation pretty well. Nicely worded.

Rick Rachal

[billwatson]

Some of us are obviously not hardcore because something about our appearance is not right. I've reached the point where I could do a very hardcore homeguard impression of a white-bearded citizen fumblingly pressed into military duty in an emergency, but to reach the very outside limits of plausibility as a front-line combat soldier I've got to resort to General Beauregard's Solution and painfully whip an increasingly creaky body into some semblance of fitness. And anyone visibly carrying a bit too much weight reduces their plausibility by as much weight as they could lose.

But there's an ingredient nobody has been much talking about, and it's reflected in actions and deeds, not images. You can look like you fell out of the pages of a history book, but if what comes out of your mouth at an immersion experience relates to Britney Spears, pimp your ride, who you hang with and -- above all else -- where you got your g.d. gear -- then you aren't hardcore. And you aren't progressive. And you may not even be popular in some mainstream groups.

Here's a real test: How many of us, if plunked by a time machine into the theatre and campaign of our choice 1861-1865, could adjust not only our appearance, but our attitudes, actions and comments to the point where we would not be regarded as wandering escapees from a lunatic asylum by the people we met? That would require not only having the knowledge of what was what, but of successfully interpreting it from moment to moment in all our interactions. Now that's hardcore. And for all except maybe two or three people, that's a goal, not a condition. Since we'll never take that test, it's somewhat speculative -- but surely the ability to successfully slide into a niche in time is a logical result, in concept anyway, of all the effort we pour into depicting history?

We can go round and round on this, but what we're looking for and trying find a way to measure is really in the degree of intensity of the approach to the pastime, and it's an odd juxtaposition of seemingly opposing themes: How "seriously" do you have to depict history before it meets your definition of "fun to do?"

[reb1912]

Friends,

I would not label myself, but rather be labelled by others. If I can get somebody to say: " Oh lord, look at that rebel spooning parced corn with a cold bacon slab, wearing rags, various federal accroutments, brushing teeth with a twig, eating bacco, peeing miniés, sleeping naked in his painted ground cloth....his timeline must have stopped around 1864, on the outskirts of Franklin." Then I'm Hardcore.

If somebody says:" Ahhha...that leather belt doesn't look 140 years old!" Then I would think of myself as mainstreamer, because i haven't obtained perfection.

As long as I'm getting a feeling of " being there..." (were not talking about running around in absolute farb stuff with a smile on my face). I mean, I'm buying period literature at auctions, and carriing them with me on events)

I'm always trying to find new way to better my impression. But nobodys ever called me progressive or hardcore or such. In Europe were, I live these terms don't "fit". Here you're either regular(buying stuff from a sutler and holstering average knowledge) or authentic (buying stuff from aprroved vendors and holstering specific knowledge ). I'm labelled authentic by my friends and fellow soldiers.

[Wild Rover]

I am a farb.

:)

[hireddutchcutthroat]

I am a farb.

:)

In reality are we not all?

[Wild Rover]

In reality are we not all?
Yep.

We can always strive to be 100% authentic, knowing we will never get there.


Jeez, now I am depressed. :tounge_sm

[DougCooper]

Patience guys...still working on this time machine and hope to have it ready for the 150th. The plan is we go back to the war, join up, spend a few months and jump around to various locales getting smart (and hopefully surviving). We then return to the 125th era spreading the gospel and stopping outfits like Winchester Sutler, C&C etc from ever getting started and then jump ahead to the present and all will be OK. Oh, and I want to bring back a couple of veterans and let them see what we are up to.

....or we come back and tell everybody the whole idea is crazy, that it was the most awful experience of our lives...and grading authenticity is a futile exercise...

seriously, I have no idea how "authentic" I am...sure am trying hard though. Steve Dunfee has a way to describe when you are on the right path - it's the day you decide you just want to be a soldier and are content with that.

fun on a Friday...

[Gallinipper]

Victorian era gentlemen generally had manners. When they were addressed, they acknowledged it and responded in kind. Dress yourself up all you want, but some folks need a bit of work there. There's a lot more to a good impression than wearing the latest "designer reenacting" fashions.
Just my $.02, thankee kindly.
Rich

Rich, Please refer to No. 1 of the AC Forum Rules (url listed below):

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1034 (http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1034)

This is your first warning.

Scott McKay, moderator
AC Forums

[billwatson]

Victorian era gentlemen generally had manners. When they were addressed, they acknowledged it and responded in kind. Dress yourself up all you want, but some folks need a bit of work there. There's a lot more to a good impression than wearing the latest "designer reenacting" fashions.
Just my $.02, thankee kindly.
Rich

That's fine for anyone portraying a gentleman. What about the rest of us bog Irish?



Bill Watson
Stroudsburg, Pa.

[Noble Pelican]

Rating your authenticity seems to me to be a sort of multi-faceted issue -- there's the quality of your main impression, where you might have the gear and the mindset nailed. But what about secondary impressions?

To my mind, in terms of my gear, most of it is fine at this point -- for a lower class impression I'm ok, better in a Southern impression than a Northern one. Middle class is a stretch for me -- but I can manage shabby genteel pretty well. Upper class at this point is completely out of the question.

My knowledge of material culture is pretty sound, but I sometimes have difficulty operationalizing it. I can babble with conviction on a lot of topics.

In the abstract, I understand the Southern concept of "being a mannerly person means that you never back someone into a corner where they are embarrassed -- always give them a graceful out." But my Northern directness tends to trip me up in moments of stress, and I'll speak when sometimes I should just smile and nod.

I also don't have the period farming skills that should go with my impression -- I can't hitch or saddle a horse, drive one, or plow. I need to learn how to load and care for a gun -- though my aim is pretty good if someone else loads. I can milk a cow, though I've not done so for quite a while, and I've never attempted milking a goat. I've never been to a hog butchering, salted or smoked meat or made sausage. I'm learning to spin (thank you Terre Lawson!), but the current results are uneven. My sewing is very basic, patching and darning are pretty good. My crochet and tatting nonexistant. I'm pretty good at making a fire, but if it's a small stove I sometimes have difficulty keeping it going once I've gotten started -- I get too distracted with cooking and forget to keep stoking it. I'm a pretty fair cook and baker.

I need to know more about farming, especially tobacco, cotton, indigo, rice the main crops of the South. I especially need to know how these would be done on a small scale, since I don't suspect that I'll ever develop a plantation mistress impression.

I need better luggage and a means to keep the equipment I've got with me in the field more organized. I want to learn more words to songs, especially hymns. I need to read and know my Bible more. I want to learn Spencerian script and I'd love to learn the banjo.

I guess in terms of structuring a poll, are they always only one question? What about one that had a line for rating your gear, another for material culture (however you define that), a third on how developed your persona before the war is, and a fourth on ability to operationalize all that in the field?

Since this is a poll on the authentic campaigner board, what about moving from the "hardcore/progressive/farb" rating scale and going to a number rating. Say a 1-10 rating where 1 was most thorough, don't need to work on this much at all" and 1 was "starting out and trying to get a handle on what I need to know to make some better decisions this time around."

Food for thought,
Karin Timour
Atlantic Guard Soldiers Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com


Karin,

You make some very good points. Material culture is not the only important thing that needs to be learned.
You wonder how many people realize the importance of a working persona. Having worked at a historical park for a few years, I became quite the woodworker, so I use that as my persona as to what I have been doing before the war. Not only have I researched the subject of woodworking in the antebellum time period, but have purchased original draw knives, planes, etc. which I use for fun projects around the house and for when I decide to do a civilian impression. Just buying the stuff is nice, but actually learning to use these items is better.
Looking the part is great, but not knowing the economy, trades, and lifestyles of the years and for the areas we portray will make a person look awful silly when the public asks you something more in depth than "how do you know when you are shot?" or "do you get paid for this?"
Keep up the good work.

Richard H. Holloway
Captain, Vance Guards
19th LA. Vols.

[KarinTimour]

Dear Richard:

Thank you for your kind words -- and I know just what you mean about the enjoyment to be had in using period tool and techniques in the ways they were designed to be used. I can also list so many ways that that I fall short of Bill Watson's "Would you, if plunked down in the 1860s be recognizable as an escapee from an asylum?" test.

And in the words of an old song "the pleasures not the winning, it's the loving of the game."

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
"The Stories in the Socks" Conference on Women and the Civil War, Richmond, Virginia, June 2004
Period Knitting -- Socks, Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

[Jake Hill]

I would say mainstream moving into progressive, because the unit I joined led me down the wrong road to terrible sutlers. :( But I started talking to a hardcore unit and great guilt fell over me that I was doing the wrong thing. They took me under their wing and are teaching me. My heart is in the right place my checkbook has to catch up now so I can obtain the proper gear. I hang my head in shame that in one point in my life I was a farb. But this is all in the past and I have progressed greatly from what I used to be.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kamerad!

While the definitions and applications of "Farb" are not always uniformly agreed upon, and can mean different things to different people-

One passing observation on Farbism and Farbery views that a so-called "Farb" holds to these:

1. I know that I am "wrong."
2. I don't care that I am "wrong."
3. I am pefectly content and happy doing what it is I do.
3. Don't tell me what I don't want to know.

Most everyone, unless they are extremely fortunate to fall in with a PCHA unit, or the right mentor(s), first commences their Journey down the Path at a so-called "Farb" level of kit, impression, and activities. (Including myself...)

The DIFFERENCE is, is that the "Farb" that remains there...
(Which may be entirely fitting and proper for thier Mental Picture and the CW Hobby they are in.)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Cognito Ergo Sum Mess

[M_Kupsch]

In addition, there is just a vast differences in approach to reenacting between us and the mainstreamers/farbs. I would essentially break it down into two philosophies. The mainstreamer/farb only wants to "play" Civil War soldier. We, on the other hand, want to be that Civil War soldier and that is part of why we are so specifc in what we wear and how we conduct ourselves at events. Their whole motivation is different than ours and this is what allows them to be content with less than authentic uniforms and equipment, much less the 21st century items found in their camps.

I also think that many mainstreamers equate being "hardcore" with being miserable in the field. Well, I guess that is a part of the experience because that is part of soldiering. Part of soldiering is also learning to make do with what you have and doing it in bully fashion. They might understand what we are all about if they could realize we are not trying to be or searching to be miserable for the sake of just being miserable, but are in a quest for the holy grail of the Civil War soldier's experiences.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

I also think that many mainstreamers equate being "hardcore" with being miserable in the field. Well, I guess that is a part of the experience because that is part of soldiering. Part of soldiering is also learning to make do with what you have and doing it in bully fashion. They might understand what we are all about if they could realize we are not trying to be or searching to be miserable for the sake of just being miserable, but are in a quest for the holy grail of the Civil War soldier's experiences.

Its is ironic that they see it that way. I have been doing campaign style living history since 1991, and I can be just as comfortable in the field, as I am anywere else. Besides hauling all that junk too and from an event and setting up that big tent looks exausting.

[SouthernFed]

I guess I must be honest if I go too a H/C event like TAG I like to feel I am at least a progressive. At a mainstream I would say I am a mainstreamer with a progressive mind set. At a MS event I see things that upset me but sometimes you just have too look away and blow it off. Lets all go forward.
Ron Orange
SouthernFed

[southron_98]

I know I hate seeing grops with darken Desert Boots or modern glasses or their families in the middle of a miltary camp.

Gary,

Please note that this is your second warning about not signing your full name to your posts; there will not be a third.

Scott McKay, moderator
Authentic Campaigner Forums

[tenthmo]

I started out as a FARB. At my very first event, Makanda, Illinois, March 1980, I wore a sack coat made from US NAVY blues, US NAVY issue boondockers, a forage cap made for $8, and a pair of Wrangler jeans. Later I upgraded to clothing from C&D Jarnigan. I attended many city and county festivals in those early ‘80’s. Festivals that can be best described as being of the “dog and pony show” variety. In Missouri, I’ve attended festivals held at Lone Jack, Pilot Knob, Lexington, Glasgow, and Athens. All these “mainstream” events have a scripted battle around a town festival. I have attended a few living history events such as Wilson’s Creek and Pea Ridge. I also attended mega events out east such as the 125th anniversary reenactments of Bull Run, Shiloh, Perryville, Gettysburg, and Franklin.
Since 1994, I have grown tired of running around a field and blowing cartridges. For the last 10 years, many of us in the Midwest have a preference for Living History events. So in some regards, I have progressed. I have updated my impression. Many of us have civilian attire and are adept at doing Missouri State Guard or common citizens of the area. However, after the sun goes down, many of us look to popskull for entertainment.
The best reward I’ve gotten over the years, however far I’ve progressed, is in the development of close friends. Whatever my faults, I count myself honored to have friendships that have lasted 24 years. I am 51 years old , but look forward to mingling with my pards whatever the event.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kameraden!

Just on the side of clothing and gear...

My first "outfit" consisted of:

1. Vinyl billed kepi
2. Modern underwear
3. Modern cotton shirt made from a modifed Nehru pattern, white plastic buttons
4. Powder blue Levi Jeans
5. Surplus police department, dark blue, winter coat wool made into a blouse by my wife from a pajama top pattern
6. Off white wool gym socks
7. Dyed black Hush Puppy "desert boots" (the crepe soles had to be redyed each time they were worn)
8. Navy Arms folded leather envelope called a cartridge box
9. Navy Arms cap box
10. Leather store belt blank with lead backed US plate (my 3rd best item)
11. White canvas haversack made by my wife
12. Original bullseye canteen covered in WWII gray blanket wool, white cotton strap sewn by my wife (2nd best item)
13. Original M1855 socket bayonet in an original post War Peabody rifle scabbard (best item)
14. Navy Arms mixed model "M1864 Springfield" out of the box
15. Modern orange nylon backpacker tent, with yellow nylon pegs
16. Modern sleeping bag
17. Modern flourescent light

My current "outfit" consists of:

1. None of the above.

And therein lies the difference.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Driven By the Quest To Step Out of Time Machine In 1862 and Not To Be Taken As Anybody or Anything Different Mess

[Pvt.CLC]

I started out as FARBY as one can get except i owned a pair brogans....I started off with Servant's stuff and did a few events. After a while i noticed the polyester in my depot Forgage cap and began talking to a few guys who did Hardcore Events. so i began getting better stuff to my impression.

I would rate my self as a low progressive upper mainstream reenactor. I personally try to be as authentic as i can with the Money that I have. I own nice Period underwear with Family Herloom Material and they feel like silk! :D I have nice gators,s&s 2 bag Back pack, decent lethers and my all time faveroite Dirty Billy Fez. while my uniform isnt as authentic as the origionals i try to work on it and eventually when i have the money i will pay for a non-farby Uniform.

it is funny to me how I see some units show up at a reenactments saying they "really" portray a union encampment at battles. At getysburg which my unit attened..we where one of the only all dog tent company there. I am still convinced that the adverage private didnt carry a A tent from Virgina to Pennslyvania to fight at a undetermined place, and or had the time to set it up. I also see many put up there there cots and there farby rail road lantern on a metal racks. and some of the confedrate units at these events is almsot as bad. Ive seen Huge Wall tents for privates, and an assortment of furnature and goods that wouldnt have been in a 1863 army on campain. oh well....
-Chris Conboy

[Lone_Rebel87]

Man I would have too say I'm a middle to upper class mainstreamer workin my butt off with my limited funds to progress towards a more authentic portrayal.......I wish I'd done a whole lot more research and found this lovely site back when I first started...woulda saved me alot a trouble and money but oh well :rolleyes: I'm getting slowly pulled out of farbopia and trying to drag the guys I started out with along by their shoelaces.

(I'm getting there :cool: )

Jordan davis

[Pvt.CLC]

I also noticed how after i learned what is farby and not I seemed to have gone on a period craze...i mean how many 17 year olds like me, search through web pages and pour through sutlers at events (or the reenactor mecca) and look at cloth and produts offered....its addicting and I can not wait to buy the correct kersey wool and wool yarn and get my authentic uniform... :D

[David Lanier]

I started re-enacting in 1996. I learned hours of old songs from my mother, who learned them from her grandmother (born in the 1880's). I sleep in a dog tent and play the old songs on a Wunderlich banjo. I call myself "progressive" because I'm always working on improving my impression (until now by scanning old photos). Many of my ancestors fought (and some died) in the War. In a way, I'm doing this for them, to understand their motivation. I'm reading these posts to pick up pointers.

Although I teach Greek and theology, I have always been interested in history. I grew up on a Civil War battlefield, near Peachtree Creek in Decatur, Ga. Used to play in the old Union trenches. Found minie balls, horses' teeth, and finger bones.

I always appreciate it when someone takes the time to correct my impression. If I have done something "farbisch," I work to correct it.

David Lanier
6th North Carolina State Troops

[Bummer]

My impression is not as good now as it used to be...I was pretty anal about it for a long time, but a few years ago I began to realize that I was nitpicking the fun right out of it, and that there was too much else to do.
So now I have backed off. My stuff is good, and I know (that's the important part) what's now wrong with my stuff, but I don't worry about it and let it slide.
A reformed nutcase that's me.

Spence Waldron~

[20thMainerCampaigner]

I started out as mainstream. I thought I was finally a reenactor. Then I quickly found out that I was part of two clases of reenactors, and reallized that I wasn't in the authentic group. So I researched enlisted gear and replaced my gear and clothing piece by piece. Then I would sell my mainstream stuff. Now I have fully researched what my unit would've had and looked to see who had the best reproduction. Then I stopped sleeping in my A-frame and moved into my (then) new TypeII Dog Tent. I guess the man who pointed me in the right direction was Jim Wareheim, who makes Richmond Depot Jackets and whatnot, he kind of took me under his wing in a way, told what was correct and what wasn't but as I outgrew my stuff I realized it was the perfect opportunity to go authentic. I just wish I'd slow down now that I am no longer a "farby" living historian.

Best Regards
Pvt. Court Micker

[ChesterfieldYJ]

i started out mainstream but just recently have gotten into the proggresive campaigner thing. my impression still needs tweaking but i think i'm off pretty well.
My one basic rule is that i dont bring anything to an event that i cant carry with me on the field.

[FWL]

In consideration of Paul who posted the poll and the old boys of 61-65 that we can never measure up to; I could consider myself a progressive. I do believe an honest person with a mirror can accurately rate one's self. I strive for HC but know that I'm not there yet. I hope I can rate myself as a HC one day.

I really question using farb in this poll, is there anyone except the jokers that would honestly rate themselves as a farb that has an account on this site.

Regards

Frank Lilley

[Lone Guard]

I could consider myself a progressive. I do believe an honest person with a mirror can accurately rate one's self. I strive for HC but know that I'm not there yet. I hope I can rate myself as a HC one day.


Same, was mainstream for about 3 years, then I met with Don Smith and the 1st California and I saw the light.

[Horton]

I am continuously working on improving my impression so I guess that make me a progressive? Anyways I just enjoy everything about the hobby especialy the music :).

Sam Horton

[Dale Beasley]

Depends on what type of mood I am in.