Camp Morton - It's a no go for 2008

[paulcalloway]

Conner Prairie contacted us today and is not able to honor their commitment for an event in 2008 due to some other events they are having next fall.

Our window of opportunity was pretty small since we didnt want to conflict with other EBUFU events and it just happens to be at the busiest time of the year for Conner Prairie.

Consider this a no go and if anything changes we'll let you know.

[Matthew.Rector]

That's too bad Paul. I was really looking forward to this one! Thanks for your efforts and time spent on this.

[reb290]

I am also sad to hear this. This sounded like a great event.

[Charles Heath]

Paul,

See if you can squeeze it in to 2009.

[Hank Trent]

Bummer. It was on my must-attend list, for sure. As Charles says, maybe 2009?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Micah Trent]

Paul,

With the current changes going on CP, which looks to be for the good, is there a chance that this event could be held in 2009?

[Justin Runyon]

Micah,

As much as I want an authentic event in Indiana (trust me I do), I'm not inclined to work with CP any time in the future. Yanking the rug out from under 2008 after having been essentially guarenteed that date, coupled with their wanting us to come and save their annual event after the mainstream element takes their ball and goes home does'nt really sit well with me.

Others milage may vary, that's just onme mans oppinion.

[boozie]

Micah,

As much as I want an authentic event in Indiana (trust me I do), I'm not inclined to work with CP any time in the future. Yanking the rug out from under 2008 after having been essentially guarenteed that date, coupled with their wanting us to come and save their annual event after the mainstream element takes their ball and goes home does'nt really sit well with me.

Others milage may vary, that's just onme mans oppinion.

I agree! Planning and research had already been started, then poof, a conflict. It wouldn't have been so bad if our date was in conflict with another 19th Century event at a 19th Century village.:mad:

[Micah Trent]

Micah,

As much as I want an authentic event in Indiana (trust me I do), I'm not inclined to work with CP any time in the future. Yanking the rug out from under 2008 after having been essentially guarenteed that date, coupled with their wanting us to come and save their annual event after the mainstream element takes their ball and goes home does'nt really sit well with me.

Others milage may vary, that's just onme mans oppinion.

Justin,

I understand the ill feelings when having the rug pulled out from underneath you. Pissed doesn't even describe the true feelings. I don't know the full details about what went on. I just know that there was a date set and then it was suddenly denied due to a Halloween event? (Correct me if I am wrong.)
In a way though, with the mastermind behind the 3 ring circus now, which appears to be out of the picture, no longer an issue, it seems to a point to try and take advantage of this occasion before another circus takes its spot.
Was it one man's decision or a groups decision from CP that gave the no go?

Just one who tries to find a little good in the bad and the ugly at times.

[paulcalloway]

Gents -
If you feel strongly about this, take the ball and run with it. I share some of Justin's feelings on this, but not to the point non-participation. If you can resurrect this event idea, I'm willing to give them another chance.

It's going to be pretty difficult at this stage of the game to get a lot of non-GHTI support for their May '08 event though.

[markmason]

update. Most likely it will be a gathering of a few TWM fellas and anyone who may want to come out for the day.

The park did not contact the GHTI to bail them out and save the event. I hope our ship is not that big.

a few mainstreamer/progressive just see the open door to plant a seed and asked if we want to be a part of it...to organize, take over, plan future May events, etc..

Actually, Im tired..really tired mentally...know what I mean? and lack the enthusiasm anymore

[markmason]

Those of you who could make it out to CP ..Thank You.

[Micah Trent]

Glad I could come out for it. Had a good time.

[Thomas Alleman]

I was at CP, went reb and well it is mainstream to the extreme. How sad the union army looks these days old men and young boys. It was a match up of the Independent Guard CS vs. ad hoc Union troops. The rebs outnumbered the feds with a 2-1 margin, sad. Nice village and historic setting and yeah allot of potential to educate IN on the the civil war but the hokiest battle I ever thought of participating in.
So good: nice site, seeing pards, friendly village people, hey free food, good weather, also Ezra Barnhouse Goods, and playing baseball, singing around the campfire, and the dead rabbits. Bad: BATTLE,no authenticity standards, note to self leave contacts at home, and real lack of scenario for the event.
At non-civil war sites it is good to have a sense of a period of time not just Civil War event. Leaves to much to the imagination and a little history about a time period gives guys a reason to have a certain look and feel. Would I go back? Seen it, did it, what else you got, not in the near future and not with a battle like that.
Basically went 5 hours to have a corn dog and take a nap.:confused_ Yeah I need to stay away from these types of events, it just reminds me of what I do not like about reenacting. I am not here to bash this site and your unit does get paid which helps but I do think everyone could do better, myself included.
So if you do enjoy the place by all means make it better, Indy is slowly creeping its way around it. I guess a new subdivision is moving next to it. Open space is valuable.

[LibertyHallVols]

I would echo Tom's comments. However, it wasn't the worst battle I've ever seen (cough- Mooresville -cough), but it was up there.

A couple things I found interesting:
The site is trying to grow the event, so stated rules were not enforced. There was a general statement about cut, etc. of uniforms being in a period fashion, but judging by what I saw on the field, there were no real standards. Impressions on the CS side ranged from top-of-the-line to the crust at the bottom of the barrel.

Despite this, attendance from the public looked to be huge and they all looked pretty pleased. So, not sure if the site would be motivated to make changes that would result in fewer reenactor attendees. In order to coerce them to making a change, I think there would probably need to be a Max Effort authentic event there, with attendance on the order of decent sized battalion on each side.

One of my biggest pet peeves at events these days is alcohol consumption. I don't see it at better events. However, it seems unavoidable at anything approaching a mainstream event. It makes it hard to set a good example for younger guys (teens+)getting into the hobby.

Anyway... I had fun catching up with friends.

[MissAnnaMae]

I was there as well, albeit dressed in "funny clothes," as Beth Crabb said. :-) This was my first time visiting during their CW Days and, too, wondered at what a wonderful event it would be if "we" could have full run of the property and impressions. Still, it was nice to see the Crabb's and enjoy some kettle corn for a change while logging some miles on the ole' pedometer.

[markmason]

I was at CP, went reb and well it is mainstream to the extreme. How sad the union army looks these days old men and young boys. It was a match up of the Independent Guard CS vs. ad hoc Union troops. The rebs outnumbered the feds with a 2-1 margin, sad. Nice village and historic setting and yeah allot of potential to educate IN on the the civil war but the hokiest battle I ever thought of participating in.


To all: Yes it is a different type of event right now. It is not Outpost, Chickamauga, Paynes Farm, etc..has potential to be much more. Where can you go to a event with a town and building structures predating the Civil War? The wheel is turning and the park is very open to improvements. It is just a matter of finding the right people and fitting them into the grand scheme of things to make this event something truely top notch with authenticity and attendence. look at the progress that has been made since this event started 10 years ago. Letting us inside the village was not thought of.....today, with a new board in place it is reality. Conner Prairie is the 2d most visited village in the country under Colonial Willamsburg.

The buildings were open for us to use. To short of notice to make this happen. some stepped in to try and save this event that almost wasn't this year.

Planning begins today for 09' ...plan to join us.

[crabby]

After the event was over, Mark Mason and I did talk to them about having some civilian interaction in the town, using quality civilians. They were jazzed, It is going to be brought up at the event wrap-up meeting.

Mainstream - yes, "interesting" impressions - yes. We did have a good time, none the less. Enjoyed spending time with Mark, Brian, Micah, Matt and Jordan. Rebecca and the little one were good neighbors to have. Talked to quite a few others from the AC.

Crabby

[LibertyHallVols]

To all: Yes it is a different type of event right now. It is not Outpost, Chickamauga, Paynes Farm, etc..has potential to be much more. Where can you go to a event with a town and building structures predating the Civil War? The wheel is turning and the park is very open to improvements. It is just a matter of finding the right people and fitting them into the grand scheme of things to make this event something truely top notch with authenticity and attendence. look at the progress that has been made since this event started 10 years ago. Letting us inside the village was not thought of.....today, with a new board in place it is reality. Conner Prairie is the 2d most visited village in the country under Colonial Willamsburg.

Planning begins today for 09' ...plan to join us.

Mark,

I agree that the event has taken great strides in the last few years. I last attended that event in 2006, and stopped by briefly in 2004 or 5 (can't recall which). I remember not being allowed in the gate initially, so being placed within the villlage is a big deal.

Despite the downsides of this years event, I think the event has lots of potential and the new leadership seems very willing to work with the hobby. To make that effort pay off, I think there would need to be a concerted effort by this end of the hobby. In a nut, the authentics would need to establish a sizeable presence and, in doing so, augment the program there in a way that is both valued by and visible to the park staff.

[Suppelsa]

I would echo Tom's comments. However, it wasn't the worst battle I've ever seen (cough- Mooresville -cough), but it was up there.

A couple things I found interesting:
The site is trying to grow the event, so stated rules were not enforced. There was a general statement about cut, etc. of uniforms being in a period fashion, but judging by what I saw on the field, there were no real standards. Impressions on the CS side ranged from top-of-the-line to the crust at the bottom of the barrel.

Despite this, attendance from the public looked to be huge and they all looked pretty pleased. So, not sure if the site would be motivated to make changes that would result in fewer reenactor attendees. In order to coerce them to making a change, I think there would probably need to be a Max Effort authentic event there, with attendance on the order of decent sized battalion on each side.

One of my biggest pet peeves at events these days is alcohol consumption. I don't see it at better events. However, it seems unavoidable at anything approaching a mainstream event. It makes it hard to set a good example for younger guys (teens+)getting into the hobby.


This really is a great site. The field the battle is fought on is probably close to a half square mile. All the roads are dirt, and it was very neat to sleep on the bridge.

Agree with the alcohol issue. Thats why I grabbed 2 cases of non alcoholic stuff.

[Micah Trent]

There is a lot of potential at CP and it is good to see them taking baby steps in the right direction. I agree with Wickett that there needs to be improvement made by both sides.
Having access inside the village was awesome. Something you don't get to experience that often if ever. In fact, the entire grounds was unbelievable.

[Hoosier Yank]

There is a lot of potential at CP and it is good to see them taking baby steps in the right direction.


Then why is CP having the Ren-Freaks out instead of us putting on a quality event that WE offered to support and organize?

Even last year for the Morgan's Raid weekend, CP fiddle farted around to the very last minute. So far I haven't been too impressed and not sure just how commited they are to having a true quality CW event.


CP is akin to a local "progressive unit" .... a lot of damn talk nuthin' else! :baring_te

[Micah Trent]

Bill, I know how you feel, however, having CP meeting our standards isn't something that can or will happen over night. However, after hearing Mason and Crabby mention that CP did hear them out after the event and were very interested, we got a foot in the door again.
With the old managment out and a new one in, now is a good time to act.
If it doesn't work out, so be it. Their loss. If it does though, hmmm....

[Rear Rank 2]

I see over and over if we ran it, well when somebody took their ball and went home I did not see any of you step up. And Justin I don’t recall anyone asking you to save anything. Ron Wilkins had a little over a month to try to pull something together. With that type of time constraint lets see some of the gripers do better.

[blackhattertuck]

Although,

Justin did make that comment in Feb.

[Hoosier Yank]

I see over and over if we ran it, well when somebody took their ball and went home I did not see any of you step up. And Justin I don’t recall anyone asking you to save anything. Ron Wilkins had a little over a month to try to pull something together. With that type of time constraint lets see some of the gripers do better.


Once again, you've engaged your mouth into overdrive without thinking and/or reading this thread.

This discussion wasn’t even about the CP mainstream event three weeks ago but about the cancelled Camp Morton event. You need to worry about your own house right now, not ours.

[Justin Runyon]

Andy, I dont recall you sitting with me and the CP management. But to be fair, the words "Come save our event" never came out of our mouth. It was more like Come and help us pull this one out of the same general malaise that usually occurs at most of our Indiana events, come and help us raise the standards and put on a quality program for the public. I suppose in paraphrasing I mis-spoke myself, but does this clarification really change the argument any?

Apologies all 'round.

[blackhattertuck]

To clarify my statement,

I was making the point that Justin's comment in Feburary, was not referring to the Mainstreamer event that Ron Wilkins helped put together, but rather to the proposed campaigner event the GHTI was working on with the Connor Prarie staff. I'm sure Ron did excellent work in saving the Mainstream event from the effects of one man's damaged ego; however, I must state that I gained greater understanding of the life of a CW soldier at Pickett's Mill last weekend, than I did from 5 years of Connor Praries, Billy Creeks, Hartford Cities, etc...

Hopefully I'm clear now :wink_smil

[PvtRJBrown]

Just putting in my 2 cents worth, but Damn!!!! I go off to N.Y.C. for college the following week after the weekend Camp Morton was scheduled for! Would have been th perfect time to go to a quality event, seeing as I've been to the event before and I live in Chicago so its not that far away. I agree with most here, if the event can possibly be salvaged, awesome. If it cannot, well thats how the ball rolls is it not?