Casualties

[Hairy Nation Boys]

How are casualties going to be handled? Like BGR?

Just wondering,

Holler

[Jim of The SRR]

Hopefully not like at TAG!

Jim Butler

[Hairy Nation Boys]

You mean where no one takes a hit? I am with you!

Holler

[coastaltrash]

I remember both sides being pretty guilty of that one. Contact the battalion commanders and I'm sure they'll have an answer for you or coming to a final conclusion.

What was the method at BGR?

[IowaYank]

Pat, At BGR any casualty was treated as prisioners. Didn't matter if you were dead, wounded, ect, you would be treated as a prisoner.As the Confederates advanced they collected the "dead" and they were held prisoners. At the end of each day we exchanged prisioners, so even if you did take a hit, you werent out for the rest of the event. Seemed to work out quite well.

[huntdaw]

Hey, just for the record, I took a hit at TAG.

[Hairy Nation Boys]

So did I. I took a hit before our company was captured by the Robo Cop company.

BGR it worked really well. I would also say at Rich Mountian it worked well too. I will talk to Terry and see what he has planned. Thanks!

I am really excited about this event. I like to go to the south in the fall. Hate to miss an Iowa game but this event will be worth it.

Holler

[Coatsy]

Not that I have a say in how casualties are taken Outpost, but it seems that the BGR method seems fair.

Kevlar Reenactors are very over represented in the hobby in all tiers of reenacting. :wink_smil

[Terry Sorchy]

At BGR the KIA and the wounded usually ended up with the other side then turned into prisoners and were exchanged at the end of the day. It worked wonderfully. If casualties are taken within your own lines you could have a waiting period to where you go to the rear and help out the skinners or surgeon or whatever, then straggle back after a couple of hours. If the companies take hits though they should be out and away from them for at least two hours to let the company feel how attrition works. IMHO. Attrition is a powerful thing. BGR.
Cheers
Terry Sorchy

[Csayankee]

Ok, I am going to ask a stupid question... How have you all decided your dies, injuried etc when. Or is it on the honor system.

Dan

[hpotter]

One way that has been used before is to have a pre arranged number of cartidges marked with black for dead and red for wounded. Each man gets a cartridge that may be blank or have a colored mark on it. They are placed somewhere in the box of certain men. If the man happens to draw one of those rounds for his next shot, he goes down.

I like Terry's idea of having those within their own lines go to the rear. Here, they can be scratched off the list. If the selected person does not report then they have to present their unspent cartridge.

[Coon Dawg]

I am glad this is being addressed because last year at Prelude to Chickamauga at the height of the moment just when I felt we had stepped back in time the event was prematurely ended. Why? Because no one took any hits even though our company had been totally caught off guard while loading by Federal cavalry appearing out from behind the barn with Spencer Repeating Carbines. I wish we would had took some hits because to this day I wonder how that would have turned out in the end.

Joel Phillips

The Flatlander's Mess (http://flatlandersmess.googlepages.com/home)

[Terry Sorchy]

That is why we as mature Living Historians must step up or step aside. We want Outpost to give the men there a feeling of how it might have been like. But it is up to each man to do his part in the event. From first peson, to material to casualties and captured. You will find it will be more challenging for the commanders, for the NCO's and for the men if we march like they marched, fought like they did, and acted as they would have. Its all part of a circle. We cannot be truly fullfilled in this hobby unless we experience the full circle of moment, knowledge, material, and immersion.
It is my wish that this event does not leave the participants with the feeling of one reenactor battalion bested the other. It is my wish that you feel the experience of two forces that stumbled by accident upon one another in 1862 would have felt like, acted and reacted in the period fashion.
May this event hold many cherished memories for all involved for it will be one that has endless possibilities.
Thank You
Terry Sorchy

[MO-Pard]

I think this is a great discussion although ultimately it is the organizer's decision. I do feel the mode at BGR was very well thought out and very effective, given the longer length of the campaign event. Although, BGR was a longer more unique event where the contents of haversacks, cartridge boxes and knapsacks were wide open. It worked well there, with time for re-issue, but given the shorter timeframe here, that may discourage casualties. I do know at BGR as nco's/officers we did limit (and attempt to) oversee/advise just what could be seized on a case-by-case basis. Whether any final decision is handed down by the organizers, I would hope this is considered..... I think you will see much more realism when soldiers aren't concerned about having all their food and ammunition taken. Or, at least, it will be given gentlemenly consideration.

Is it more real to take all food and ammunition? yes. But, to encourage realism as far as casualties, ........you'll get more, knowing the guys who spent hours rolling rounds or buying them won't lose everything. It's a trade off of losing 6 to gain a half-dozen....

Still, I don't feel it helps the realism to mandate, necessarily, what all can be taken and what cannot. So, as nco's, I recommend keeping a loose eye on things to encourage others to take hits...........but not guarantee anything.

Of course no soldier ever wanted to go down, as we simulate in these situations, for the benefit of others and the realism of the event. But keep these thoughts in mind and you'll see more casualties.

Just two cents worth and something to consider.......

[DougCooper]

That is why we as mature Living Historians must step up or step aside. We want Outpost to give the men there a feeling of how it might have been like. But it is up to each man to do his part in the event. From first peson, to material to casualties and captured. You will find it will be more challenging for the commanders, for the NCO's and for the men if we march like they marched, fought like they did, and acted as they would have. Its all part of a circle. We cannot be truly fullfilled in this hobby unless we experience the full circle of moment, knowledge, material, and immersion.
It is my wish that this event does not leave the participants with the feeling of one reenactor battalion bested the other. It is my wish that you feel the experience of two forces that stumbled by accident upon one another in 1862 would have felt like, acted and reacted in the period fashion.
May this event hold many cherished memories for all involved for it will be one that has endless possibilities.
Thank You
Terry Sorchy

AMEN boss! We are approaching this as a full on immersion event, the only way it makes any sense. If we maintain that, we won't see this one disolve into "capture the flag" in the woods.

I suggest we let the staffs work out the planning details (like casualties) and avoid discussions of pre-event stuff like the weather, etc. Instead let's concentrate on the details of our impressions to assist with the first person, tactics, uniforms and equipment, etc.

We started this year with a fantastic experience at BGR. Outpost can end the year on the same high note. It is up to all of us, not just the commanders and the organizers.

Sign up!!!

[Milliron]

Never underestimate power of casualties on your own experience. I remember a few years back at Pickett's Mill when everyone received "fate" cards, the experience was nothing short of magical. Since everyone (at least on the Federal side) knew their fate prior to the battle and was forbidden to communicate it to their pards, the effect was striking. Casualties were formed into a separate "dead" company and did lantern tours for the public for the remainder of the day. They were not seen until the following day.

My soldier was slightly wounded during the battle, but survived the battle and the war (lucky him). I was in a mess of about ten men made up of our mess and some old 'Sills. After the battle there were three of us left, me and two other 'Sills (Jimmy Rapais and Jeff Dewey). Everybody else was gone and it was a lonely and somber night that night. Camp was very quiet. You couldn't help but feel kind of lucky, but not exactly. My favorite moment was when a younger soldier who had survived complained to the sergeant "but my pard has all our mess gear," and got a wry smile for his efforts. No soup for him that night.

Find me a way to duplicate that and I'm all for it.

[Coon Dawg]

My favorite moment was when a younger soldier who had survived complained to the sergeant "but my pard has all our mess gear," and got a wry smile for his efforts. No soup for him that night.

Glad you contributed this story. I will definitely have to remember to be the one hauling the most important parts of the mess gear. Especially the coffee beans and boiler.

Joel Phillips

The Flatlander's Mess (http://flatlandersmess.googlepages.com)

[Coatsy]

Terry, well said!

Going to what Pat Landrum and Doug have already said, the event coordinators have probably already addressed this issue.

Bob, good story from Picketts Mill. It reminds me of how we lost our "beloved" Cap'n Tripp atop Rich Mtn. But Eric did an "Outstanding" job of continuing the effort!