unpainted knapsacks

[Iceman]

For a while now, I have heard of Confederate knapsacks that were made and issued unpainted; i.e. natural cotton canvas without any black paint applied to them, etc. However, I have yet to come across any primary source material for this. So, if you would happen to have primary source material for unpainted Confederate knapsacks - and don't mind sharing it - could you please provide me with any primary source material / documents that support the issuance of unpainted knapsacks to Confederate soldiers.

Further, it would seem that Federal soldiers were also being issued unpainted knapsacks. So again, if you have (and don't mind sharing) your primary documents to support the issuance of unpainted knapsacks to Federal soldiers, that would be great.

Thanks,

[Cfarrell]

Nic,

I don't have any first hand accounts but this is taken from KC McDonald’s second article on Trans-Miss uniforms:

"…Also of interest, 15 wear cravats, at least 22 wear white canvas knapsacks (with white shoulder straps & a cross-strap,) and only 6 have shoulder-straps for cartridge boxes visible…"

Again, its article two of three. Maybe, it will offer you a jump off point.

http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/shirts.htm

Regards,

[WoodenNutmeg]

It's my understanding that some Zouaves were issued unpainted knapsacks. I have heard in the past that Ellsworth's N.Y. Fire Zouaves, most specifically, were issued such items (along with unpainted haversacks; though I have never been able to evidence this).

Food for thought.

Pvt. Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

[Iceman]

Cody,

K.C. is making referance to the photo of those Arkansas soldiers in '61, where they are staning in the street and the photo was taken from out of a window looking down on them. For the sake of this discussion, those soldiers and their gear are not being considered relavent. I am specifically trying to find primary evidence to support the issuance of unpainted knapsacks by the central Confederate and Union governments.

[LWhite64]

Nic,
I have seen several references to them in the Western Theater, mainly in connection with the Atlanta Arsenal. Marcus Wright, who ran the Arsenal, had several contracts out for them, checked the contractors and found several that were producing unpainted knapsacks, some with leather straps, others with just cloth. Also, there is a diary account, unpublished, that mentions that he is having to run ammunition to the front lines in a cloth knapsack. If I get a chance, I will post the specifics from the Atlanta sources.

Lee

[Cfarrell]

Well, darn! I can't help you then. Good luck Nic.

Regards,

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

It's my understanding that some Zouaves were issued unpainted knapsacks. I have heard in the past that Ellsworth's N.Y. Fire Zouaves, most specifically, were issued such items (along with unpainted haversacks; though I have never been able to evidence this).

Food for thought.

Pvt. Bryan O'Keefe, Esquire

Mr. O'Keefe:

Please see my kind, new thread if interested. http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13165

Thanks,

[jgr1974]

There is a very rare book out called Confederate Industry. I came across it a couple years ago on Ebay by accident. Very neat and informative book. I sold my copy here a few months ago. There are several references and requests to said items. Many ordinance requests specifically asking for, and prefering "tarred" knapsacks and haversacks over "non-tarred".

The Mad MIck!!!

[LWhite64]

Invoice and Ord. Stoes turned over by Col. J.A.Smith, 3rd Confederate Regiment, to Robert Smith, Ord. Officer, Polk's Brigade, during the period March to September, 1863.

5 cap pouches
6 white knapsacks
10,000 perc. caps.

CSR. Ord Sgt. S.Perpegira, 3rd Conf.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Awesome reference...but is it fair to assume that a "white" knapsack is unpainted...there's are a few items that survive today and are painted in a variety of colors including white; kepi, cartridge box, sword belts, waist belts. Would it be possible that they may have also painted some knapsacks white...just using white lead and linseed oil?

Paul

[LWhite64]

The following is from the 1862 Annual Report of the Atlanta Arsenal by Col. Wright.

Articles made and Inspected by Contractors and Purchases...

Infantry accoutrements, sets of, including the shoulder belt with few excepting. 31,095

The average cost per set is about $4.50

Knapsacks, white Duck with Leather straps 27,200

The average cost about $1.50 each.

Haversacks, ???? Osnaburg, with partition, 23,551

The average cost about .40

Remarks.
It has been the object in all cases to attain immediate results, and meet the demand of the Services, and at the smallest possible expense.
Economy has been exercised in every expenditure and good serviceable articles, at a low price, new always prefered over those of a finer and more handsome quality at a higher price, and for two reasons, 1st, the Economy, 2nd tho one has served the new troops, we have had to put into the field ??? as well as the other, for but little care is taken of the best.
For Example- the White Duck Knapsack at one and a half Dollars, has been prefered to the painted at $3.00 the Department was compelled to call to aid in supplying the pressing demands for the Army.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Lee,

Great follow-up, and between these two articles, it makes it very clear that these would have been plain white duck (no paint, or treatment). And a date in 1862...only a year into the war, and they are making considerable changes to their production. May I ask where you found such reports?

Have you/anyone else planned on writing this type of information up as an official article/analysis for any of publications currently in circulation? A formal write-up of this information might prove to be an invaluable resource in the upcoming Confederate Research Compendium.

Paul

[jacobite8749]

Page 90 of Mike Woshner's book "India-Rubber and Gutta-Percha In The Civil War Era shows and describes a gutta-percha kanapsack carried by James B. Hall of Co.K 137th NY. "The gutta-percha is covered with white canvas material on both sides and displays a large faded red Rider and Murphy patent marking inside the flap. These packs were trialed in the mid 1850's and a patent date of Feb 1861 on the buckle indicates manufacture during the Civil War". The photo is cortesy of West Point Museum. John Rider trialed a lot of gutta-percha products with the military, and it states that 9,728 were made. Hope this may be of help. There is another reference in the book to which Regt's they were issued (can not find), but an assumption could be that these things could well be stashed away in State or Army stores at the wars beginnning.