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Vuhginyuh

08-30-2004, 12:16 PM

If this is a real question here is a real answer.

Slab bacon and salt pork are two different things. Smoked meats and salted meats are different too.

Modern commercially cured ''salt pork'' has more nitrates. That’s all. But that is no reason not to use it. Unless you going to smoke or cure your own meat, don't worry about. You cannot judge authenticity based on an invisible ingredient.

Cosmetically, and I hate using that term to describe food, one thing that you can do is to open the meat, rub it lightly with oil, and give it a heavy dry coating of course black pepper. Use a pepper grinder if you can and not the canned stuff. (Course pepper can be found at the grocery.) Do not brush or shake it off. Wrap it tightly and store it until you need it. You do not need to remove the pepper coating when frying the meat.

The salt pork that is put up around home by hand is always coated with pepper after it is removed from the brine. This could be regional. Some folks here on the forom may say not to do coat it in pepper and use it the way it is. In eastern NC and VA it is still a common practice.

Any number of spices can be used when smoking or curing meats and chances are the spices are identical to those used hundreds if not thousands of years ago.

VIrginia Mescher

08-30-2004, 12:40 PM

I've been hearing that store brand salt pork is unauthentic to the civil war period. But I'm not sure that slab bacon is any better because slab bacon is smoked, and civil war salt pork wasnt. What's the best thing to buy in this case. How different was salt pork then than it is now?

I've been researching period salt pork vs modern salt pork and below is just a little of the research.

There were various grades of commercial salt pork and the earliest definition I could find was in 1886 but the method for processing was the same as in the CW period.

“Mess Pork shall be packed from sides of well-fatted hogs, cut in strips not exceeding six and one half inches wide and flanked according to diagram as nearly as possible, and not back-stripped, 196 pounds of green [not cured] meat, numbering not over sixteen pieces, including only the regular portion of flank and shoulder cuts; four layers to be packed in each barrel, with not less than forty pounds of Turk’s Island, St. Utes, or Trepanné, or 45 pounds of other good qualities of foreign or domestic coarse salt, and clear brine as strong as the salt will make it.”
(Grocer’s Handbook, 1886)

“Clear Pork shall be packed from sides of extra heavy, well-fatted hogs, cut, selected and packed in the same manner as Mess Pork, the backbone and half the rib next to it be taken out.” (Grocer’s Handbook, 1886)

“Extra Clear Pork. Same as clear, except that all the ribs and backbone shall be taken out. (Grocer’s Handbook, 1886)

“Mess Ordinary, or Thin Mess. Of hogs reasonably well-fatted to light for Mess Pork, cut, selected, and packed in the same manner as Mess, no restrictions whatever as to the number of pieces to the barrel.” (Grocer’s Handbook, 1886)

“Extra Prime Pork shall be made from heavy, untrimmed shoulders, cut into three pieces, according to the diagram, the leg to be cut close to the breast; to be packed 200 pounds of green meat in each barrel, with the same quantity and quality of salt as Mess Pork.” (Grocer’s Handbook,1886)

“Prime Mess Pork shall be made of shoulders and sides of nice, smooth and fat hogs, weighing 120 to 170 pounds each net, regularly cut into square pieces, as near 4 pounds each as possible, the shank to be cut off close to the breast; each barrel to contain 200 pounds of green meat, the proportion of 20 pieces of shoulder and 30 pieces of side cuts, and to be packed with the same quality and quantity of salt as Mess Pork. The prime pieces shall be cut free of blade bone. The shoulder pieces are not to exceed 90 pounds in each barrel. When re-salted, the brine shall be drawn off and new brine added.” (Grocer’s Handbook, 1886)

The following is a typical recipe, from a home cookery book, for salting pork. “Directions for Salting Down Pork. Cover the bottom of the barrel with salt an inch deep. Put down one layer of Pork, and cover that with salt, half an inch thick. Continue thus till the barrel is full. Then pour in as much strong pickle as the barrel will receive. Also see that the Pork does not rise above the brine. When a white scum, or bloody-looking material rises on top, scald the brine and add more salt.
Leave out the bloody and lean pieces for sausages.
Pack as tightly as possible, the rind next to the barrel; and let it be always kept under the brine. Some use a stone for this purpose. In salting down a new supply, take the old brine, boil it down and remove all the scum, and then use it to pour over the Pork.” (Miss Beecher’s Receipt
Book, 1858)

From my understanding of the period reference, since salt pork was brined it would have been pale in color and somewhat floppy rather than salted firm modern version of salt pork. I'm not sure that there is a adequate modern substitute.

According to 19th century refereces and modern food dictionaries, fat back would not be a substitute for salt pork. In the Food Companion, fat back is defined as “Often confused with salt pork (which comes from the sides and belly of a pig) fat back is the fresh layer(not salted or smoked) of fat
that runs along the animal’s back. It is used to make lard and cracklings and used for cooking.”
In the same book, salt pork is defined as, “So named because it is salt-cured, this is a layer of fat (usually with some streaks of lean) that is cut from the pig’s belly and sides. Salt pork is often confused with fat back, which is unsalted.... It’s [salt pork] similar to bacon but much fatter and unsmoked.” While researching a number of primary references there was no mention of fat back prior to 1911.

“Short Fat Backs, should be made from the sides of heavy, well-fatted hogs, from which the bellies [bacon] have been cut and the backbone and ribs taken out and all the lean taken off, trimmed smoothly and properly squared on all edges.” (Grocer’s Encyclopedia, 1911) Notice that salt or curing was not mentioned.

As fat back was defined, there was no mention of brine being used in the process. According to some secondary sources, occasionally fat back may have been dry salted to preserve it longer but since it was usually rendered to make lard and crackling and used as seasoning in cooking, it would not make sense to dry-salt fat back. The process used to dry-salt fat back consisted of the fat was cut and salt carefully rubbed on all the surfaces and then it would then be placed in a container or hung up to dry. Salt aided the drying process and the meat absorbed the salt which inhibited bacterial growth. Before cooking it had to be soaked and then cooked, usually by
boiling. This was the easiest type of preservation but the fat back was only good for a short period of time and would quickly turn rancid.

If anyone else has additional information, I would appreciate knowing more about salt pork.

markj

08-30-2004, 01:37 PM

Hi,

With the above mind, here are enlarged extracts of an image showing a supply depot. The words "PRIME MESS PORK" are visibly stenciled to the top of the hogsheads depicted in the photo. Ah yes, salt pork, slowly stewing and "mellowing" in barrels at the height of a Virginia summer: "Delish!"

Using "Zoom" within your Word "View" function will undoubtedly bring out further details.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

hardtack1864

08-30-2004, 02:13 PM

echamp6165

08-30-2004, 02:46 PM

So as I understand it, salt pork of the day could include other cuts of meat, like shoulder, not just pork bellies of modern salt pork? There must have been a high percentage of pork bellies though, hence the term "Sow Belly" used so often at the time.Sir, In your first 2 postings on this forum you have not signed your name. When you registered for this forum you stated that you had read all the rules that we use to govern it. The first rule is to sign you name to all posts. Failure to do so in the future will result in a suspension of your account. Justin Runyon, AC Moderator

HOG.EYE.MAN

08-30-2004, 02:47 PM

1stMaine

08-30-2004, 03:10 PM

Well, heres another question, the salt pork sold at stores that are seperated in about 1/4-1/2 pound plastic packages "I think thats what we are talking about" and if you freeze it and only take it out of the package when you get to the event and try to keep it cool "remember I'm not talking about putting anything on it like pepper" will it last about 2-3 full days without getting sick even when the meat has been cooked?

Comrade Sean,

I make it a practice to cook my rations, where possible, prior to the event. In account after account, you read the phrase, "issue and cook three day's rations" Wherever possible, it seems that the men were wont to cook their pork as soon as issued. It certainly would have traveled better, and made for a faster meal from the haversack, what with coffee needing time to boil, etc, it was just so much easier to have pork and crakers rerady to eat. That's not to say it was always done that way, for certainly there were times when there WAS no time for cooking. From my own readings, though, the latter seems to be more the exception than the rule.
Myself, I have had cooked salt pork last for a weekend with no personal biologicaly negative effects. That, of course, could simply be my own experience, and certainly other's may have not fared as well.
I have also had fried chicken show excellent signs of preservation in a haversack....at least that which wasn't consumed right away:)

Respects,

VIrginia Mescher

08-30-2004, 03:40 PM

So as I understand it, salt pork of the day could include other cuts of meat, like shoulder, not just pork bellies of modern salt pork? There must have been a high percentage of pork bellies though, hence the term "Sow Belly" used so often at the time.

The different cuts of pork used in the various grades of salt pork was explained in my first post on salt pork.

According to the Oxford English Dictionary "sow belly" is an American slang for salted side of pork so it apparently did not just refer to the belly.

Bacon was the cured and smoked breast and could be made from sides or belly of the hog. The 1861 Webster's dictionary defines bacon as "Hog's flesh (sometimes that of bear) salted or pickled [brined] and dried, usually in smoke."

FC Barlow

08-30-2004, 03:52 PM

As a salt pork substitute, try boiling some fresh red meat next time. Try doing it either before the event or on the Friday night before you sack out. Once boiled, the meat will usually last all weekend.

In general, armies on the march (especially Union forces) traveled with a herd of cattle that were butchered to feed the men in the field. Of course, this doesn't work for every scenario, but its usually pretty accurate to carry fresh meat.

Vuhginyuh

08-30-2004, 04:28 PM

So as I understand it, salt pork of the day could include other cuts of meat, like shoulder, not just pork bellies of modern salt pork? There must have been a high percentage of pork bellies though, hence the term "Sow Belly" used so often at the time.
Read post Virginia's post above (#3), it is spelled out clearly.... and any cut of meat can be salt cured and air dryed or smoked.

Some very fat meat like fat back and streaky-lean are packed raw in vats of dry salt for curing.

Poaching or soaking meat in a salt brine is pickling or corning. This brine is usually washed off and sometimes the meat is soaked in fresh water for a time and then rinsed off. This is as common around here today as it was three centuries ago.

billwatson

08-30-2004, 07:15 PM

How about this: It's been my understanding that a lot of meat for northern armies came from meat processing plants -- enormous factory-like operations where live animals went in one end and a variety of meat products, intended for a variety of destinations, went the other. Those meat packers got the contract to supply the armies with "processed" meats. It's also been my understanding that this was not so much the case in the South, that the processed/preserved meats came from many smaller operations, bought up from farmers and plantations and whatnot. Anyone shed any light on whether that's so, and, if so, what the implications are between what a Yankee would get issued in the field and what a Southerner might expect? (My initial thought was that the rank and file Yankee could expect a pretty consistent pork product taken from the less attractive cuts of pig, the belly and breast, while the Southerner might find that "less consistency" occasionally meant finding a chunk of ham in there somewhere, but WOULD involve some meats that had been smoked, even peppered as described, not just brined or salted.)

I'm throwing it out for discussion, not in assertion of anything....

Vuhginyuh

08-30-2004, 07:49 PM

...meat for northern armies came from meat processing plants -- enormous factory-like operations where live animals went in one end and a variety of meat products...
And from the industrial meat processors of the Civil War grew The Jungle.

KarinTimour

08-31-2004, 12:50 AM

Dear Noah:

I saw your note responding to your concerns about my note about the food fed to those with facial injuries.

Regretfully, I have to report that after about two weeks of rereading various sources on hospitals, nursing, diet, etc. that I'm unable to find the reference that left me with that impression. I'm sorry that I may have mislead people with my posting.

I think that the misimpression I got grew from when I was first researching nursing. I thought that this could be a potential impression when I first got involved in reenacting, and did quite a bit of reading of first person diaries, letters, etc. I suspect that where I went off the track was the definition of "hospital" -- many writers use this term to refer interchangably to what we would now call (using non-period terminology) "forward dressing stations," "MASH units" as well as the larger general hospitals located in Washington and larger cities.

I think I may have read about someone who had spent several days in transit on hospital boats, or who may have been left on the field for several days before being able to be moved. Thus, he wasn't supplied with anything to eat, and was carried in by stretcher, with his original rations intact, because he was unable to eat them after being wounded.

I do think that the quality and quantity of liquid food availble varied a great deal (will post references on this later this week when I'm a bit more caught up). In Frank Moore's "Women in the War" there is a great quote about a nurse who arrived in the hospital and the patients were always complaining about the taste of their tea. She discovered that the cook was using the same pot for washing, soup, tea and several other tasks. She bought a large pot with Sanitary Commission money and designated it only for tea and they all remarked how much better the tea was...

I also think that while the army had written specs as to what low-diet was, the availability, even in general hospitals varied a great deal. You would get soup, but you might get the same soup every meal for months and months. Again, will get you references on a story of a field hospital south of Vicksburg where they were literally refusing food rather than eat the bean soup one more time.

But I digress -- will get you references for the above later this week and apologize again for the unfortunate previous post,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Camp Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

Dale Beasley

08-31-2004, 03:02 AM

Karen,

I have a good friend in VIcksburg, his name is Gordon Cotton, written I think 9 books now on ACW...he runs the Court House Museum there in Vicksburg. I am sure that he may have information that could help you.....I do know that the Sisters of Mercy had a Hospital there.....give him a try....

Nifty50

08-31-2004, 09:16 AM

Madam Timour:

Thank you for your response to my post. If you come across the sources please let me know, either here or AC Forum private message, or straight to my email address.

As an old college English instructor once said in our class- "If I am not learning, then I am not teaching".

hiplainsyank

08-31-2004, 12:24 PM

There's a story from Luke 14 in which Jesus heals a man with "dropsy". In preaching on that text and the verses around it a couple days ago, I learned that dropsy is what is now called edema, or swelling marked also by unquenchable thirst, normally caused either by congestive heart failure or kidney disease.

I do think that while they had more heavy animal fats, people also had MUCH less sugar and more whole grains overall. For example, even for me, relatively young (34), Halloween trick-or-treating when I was little was a treat because we didn't get to eat candy like that all the time, and pop was something you got some at pay day rather than an every day necessity. If you look at ingredients lists, sugar or corn syrup is a major ingredient to much of what you buy on grocery store shelves. And so much of grains, and fruits even, are so processed as to make them just slightly better than eating pure sugar.

And while I'm not doing a low carb diet, science has shown that combining those sorts of bad carbs with bad fats makes for bigger trouble than just having the bad fats alone.

SO in many ways people then did eat better, even with all the animal products they ate, that most Americans do today.

BTW, carrots are another root crop that can store well, and can be kept in the ground with some protection after it turns cold.

billwatson

08-31-2004, 01:46 PM

... there's new research into what does cause heart attacks, and it's pretty interesting. Heart disease is something that is common to modern societies, but not to societies where the diet is, even today, as poor as what we think soldiers had. Abdominal fat and stress -- chronic, daily stress-- are two key causes and netiher, despite the prospect of battle as a stress-inducer, seems to have been anything Civil War soldiers had a problem with.

Here's a link to the research, but it may not last too long.

http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/index.ssf?/base/news-17/1093840353144140.xml

If it fades, a keyword search for "Dr. Salim Yousef" will probably take you to the same information. He headed up the study, which was very widely based in terms of information gathering. Since it covers conditions in places where diet is somewhat similar to that of our Civil War ancestors, I thought it might be especially relevant.

Hank Trent

08-31-2004, 02:52 PM

Abdominal fat and stress -- chronic, daily stress-- are two key causes and netiher, despite the prospect of battle as a stress-inducer, seems to have been anything Civil War soldiers had a problem with.

Abdominal fat, yes, but I'm not sure I follow you on the part about stress. You're saying "chronic, daily stress" wasn't a part of people's live in the 1860s compared to today?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

billwatson

08-31-2004, 07:48 PM

Abdominal fat, yes, but I'm not sure I follow you on the part about stress. You're saying "chronic, daily stress" wasn't a part of people's live in the 1860s compared to today?

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Not a part to the extent that is part of our lives. I think the incredible, relentless and ever-accelerating pace of change, in society, technology and everything else, is unlike anything any of our ancestors ever had to endure. I think it creates stress levels unprecedented in human evolution. I'm not saying there wasn't stress, and sometimes a lot of it, I'm just saying that in this millennium we have more people dealing with more stress at a higher level than ever before.

Or maybe it's just me. :-)

Hank Trent

09-01-2004, 01:29 AM

Not a part to the extent that is part of our lives. I think the incredible, relentless and ever-accelerating pace of change, in society, technology and everything else, is unlike anything any of our ancestors ever had to endure. I think it creates stress levels unprecedented in human evolution. I'm not saying there wasn't stress, and sometimes a lot of it, I'm just saying that in this millennium we have more people dealing with more stress at a higher level than ever before.

Funny, because that's exactly what people were saying in the 1860s. Railroads and telegraphs made overland travel easy and communication instantaneous, for the first time ever. The industrial revolution reshaped life with each new invention, from sewing machines to mower-reapers, each of which either made people change the way they'd always done things, or work harder doing it the old way to compete with the new way.

I just looked up the following article to post on another topic. Titled "Mothers, Spare Yourself," it's from the collection Home Memories, 1858:

In the staid and quiet times of sixty, eight, or one hundred years ago, the mother had sufficient care, and labor, and anxiety in conducting and governing her household... In those days, mothers had sufficient care and labor; they were sometimes overtasked even then, and pressed into a premature grave. How must it be now?... Care, and exciting effort are demanded of the mother in four-fold proportion. The imperious voice of fashion and custom has given to the machinery of domestic life, a hurry and intensity of action, which are injurious in all its relations, but which wears most fearfully on the main-spring...

What is the remedy for this evil?... It is old-fashioned, perhaps stale, but we are looking back to the old paths, and trying to profit by the example of our ancestors. This is the maxim: Do not undertake too much. This is a great fault of the age. If others try to do everything, mothers must not. They live too intensely... The fashions and customs of the times are like a rushing torrent, against which there is no standing.

In Walden, Henry David Thoreau described the new faster pace he noticed in men's lives after the coming of the railroad:

Have not men improved somewhat in punctuality since the railroad was invented? Do they not talk and think faster in the depot than they did in the stage-office? There is something electrifying in the atmosphere of the former place. I have been astonished at the miracles it has wrought; that some of my neighbors, who, I should have prophesied, once for all, would never get to Boston by so prompt a conveyance, are on hand when the bell rings. To do things "railroad fashion" is now the byword; and it is worth the while to be warned so often and so sincerely by any power to get off its track. There is no stopping to read the riot act, no firing over the heads of the mob, in this case. We have constructed a fate, an Atropos, that never turns aside.

An article in the 1862 USDA annual report by Dr. W. W. Hall on the "Health of Farmers' Families," mentions some of the pressures that farmers faced:

...that grim specter DEBT, which is voluntarily set up in the households of three farmers out of four... it eats out half the joys of many families by reason of the self-denials, the always losing 'make-shifts,' the working to disadvantage and consequent extra labor, with those anxieties and solicitudes which are necessarily imposed, and which, in their turn, induce irritation of mind, irascibility of temper...

He discusses the specific "Hardships of Farmers' Wives," and some of the symptoms of what we'd call stress that they may show:

There is an inability to speak for a moment or a month, the heart seems to "jump up in the mouth," or there is a terrible feeling of impending suffociation. At other times there are actual convulsions, or an uncontrollable bursting out into tears.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

hireddutchcutthroat

09-01-2004, 06:47 AM

billwatson

09-01-2004, 09:09 AM

"Not a part to the extent that is part of our lives. I think the incredible, relentless and ever-accelerating pace of change, in society, technology and everything else, is unlike anything any of our ancestors ever had to endure. I think it creates stress levels unprecedented in human evolution. I'm not saying there wasn't stress, and sometimes a lot of it, I'm just saying that in this millennium we have more people dealing with more stress at a higher level than ever before." Bill Watson

Funny, because that's exactly what people were saying in the 1860s. Railroads and telegraphs made overland travel easy and communication instantaneous, for the first time ever. The industrial revolution reshaped life with each new invention, from sewing machines to mower-reapers, each of which either made people change the way they'd always done things, or work harder doing it the old way to compete with the new way." -- Hank Trent

Let me note that neither assertion is incompatible with the other.

I think it also needs to be noted that whether the average person finds life more or less stressful is probably a combination of factors, including how well a particular society has ... folkways? traditions? ... that allow for the appropriate decompression of stress. It's pretty safe to say that the Irish who rioted in New York in 1863 were stressed economically, stressed culturally and had no vent, for instance. Kind of like a societal heart attack.

It seems like societies with technological change report more stress (and, for purposes of this discussion, more of the chronic, relentless stress identified in the study I cited on heart attack causes) than do societies where technological change is not as profound. It could be that neither our bodies nor our cultures have universally adapted to those particular conditions, and that this has always been true.

So, who wants to do the stressed-out 186x bankrupt farmer turned factory worker competing with a former slave for a job at the next event?

JACKSONVC

09-01-2004, 03:36 PM

Pards, found this while going thru the "Southern Confederacy" (Atlanta GA) newspaper archives. Looks as if someone was looking out for those assigned to become the company cook.

SOUTHERN CONFEDERACY [ATLANTA, GA], June 1, 1861, p. 2, c. 3

Soldier's Rations and Mode of Cooking Them.

The regular daily ration of food issued to the troops in the United States service, is three-fourths pound of fresh or salt beef; eighteen ounces of bread, or one and a fourth pounds of corn meal, and at the rate of one hundred rations of eight quarts of peas or beans, or, in lieu thereof, ten pounds of rice; six pounds of coffee, twelve pounds of sugar, four quarts of vinegar, one and a half pounds of tallow, or one and a fourth pounds of adamantine, or one pound of sperm candles; four pounds of soap, and two quarts of salt.
On a campaign, or on marches, or on board transports, the ration of hard bread is one pound.
Fresh beef, when it can be procured, should be furnished at least twice a week; the beef to be procured, if possible, by contract.

Receipts.
1st. Soldier's Soup for 25 Men.

Take 15 quarts of water to 25 pounds of meat, 2 small tablespoonsful of salt, half a one of pepper; about 2 pounds of rice, put in while boiling, and what vegetables, fresh or preserved, that can be procured--say three pounds.

2d. Pork Soup for 25 Men.

In 6 gallons of cold water put 12 pounds of pork, 3 quarts of beans, 2 pounds of rice, season to suit; let boil one hour and a half; soak the beans overnight.

3d. Irish Stew for 25 Men.

Take 25 pounds mutton, veal, beef, or pork, cut into pieces six inches square, 4 pounds of onions, 8 pounds of potatoes, 4 tablespoonsful of salt, 1 of pepper, 8 quarts of water; cook it from 1 to 2 hours, slowly, thicken the gravy with flour mixed into smooth paste with water or potatoes mashed fine.

4th. Tea for 25 Men.

Allow 12 quarts of water; put the rations of tea--a large teaspoonful to each--in a cloth tied up very loosely, throw it into the boiler while it is boiling hard for a moment; then take off the boiler, cover it, and let it stand full 10 minutes, when it will be ready for use; first add sugar and milk, if to be had, at the rate of 3 pints or 2 quarts of milk, and 1 or 1 1/2 pounds of sugar.

5th. Pork with Peas or Beans for 25 Men.

To 14 pounds of pork add6 pounds of peas or beans, put them in a cloth to boil, tying it very loosely; place them both in the boiler, let them boil about 2 hours, then take out the pork, add some flour to the gravy, and put the peas or beans in it, with two or three onions cut up fine; let it boil a little longer, mash up the vegetables very finely, and serve them round the dish with the meat.

6th. Plain Stewed Meat for 25 Men.

Take 14 pounds of mutton, beef, veal, or pork, cut it into chunks and put it into the boiler; add 4 quarts of water, 2 quarts to a teaspoonful of salt, and half teaspoonful of pepper, 8 or 10 onions cut in pieces, let it boil half an hour, then let it stew slowly from half an hour to one hour longer, adding one pound of rice, potatoes, or any vegetable that can be obtained; thicken the gravy with flour mixed to a smooth paste in cold water.

7th. Stewed Salt Pork or Beef for 25 Men.

Wash the meat well, let it soak all night, wash out the salt as much as possible; 8 pounds of salt beef, 5 pounds of salt pork, one-third pound of sugar, 2 pounds of sliced onions, 6 quarts of water, and one pound of rice; let it simmer quietly for two or three hours.

8th. Salt Pork with Potatoes and Cabbage for 25 Men.

Take 15 pounds of pork, extract the bones, 3 pounds of potatoes, 2 winter cabbages, let it boil for two hours, 10 quarts of water, serve the meat with the vegetables round it; the gravy will make a good broth with peas, beans, or rice added, also a little onion. Ship biscuit, broken into the broth makes a very nutricious [sic] soup.

9th. To Fry any kind of Meat.

Get your frying pan very hot, put in some fat pork which will immediately melt, then put in the meat you wish to fry; (a small teaspoonful of salt, and a quarter of a teaspoonful of pepper, to every pound of meat;) when done, lay the meat on a dish, add one pint of water to the fat in the frying-pan, a few slices of onion, or two teaspoonfuls of vinegar; thicken it with a little flour, and pour it over the cooked meat. Any sauce, or a few chopped pickles may be substituted for the vinegar or onions.

10th. Coffee for 25 Men.

Take 12 quarts of water, when it boils add 20 ounces of coffee, mix it well, and leave it on the fire till it commences to boil, then take it off, and pour into it a little more than one quart of cold water, let it stand in a warm place full ten minutes; the dregs will settle to the bottom, and the coffee be perfectly clear. Pour it then into another vessel, leaving the dregs in the first. Add sugar, four teaspoonfuls to the quart. If you can get milk, leave out five quarts of water in the above receipt, and put milk in its place.

11th. Peas or Bean Soup for 25 Men.

Take 14 pounds of pork, 8 quarts peas, or beans, 20 quarts of water, 25 teaspoonfuls of sugar, 12 of pepper, and several large onions; boil gently till the vegetables are soft--from four to five hours.

12th. Receipt for a small quantity of Mashed Meat.

Cut the meat in very small pieces; heat the frying-pan, put into it one pint of water, half a teaspoonful of salt, and a teaspoonful of flour, and let it cook fifteen minutes. Salt meat must be cooked the same, omitting the salt, in its place putting a small teaspoonful of sugar, spices, or pickles, chopped fine. Dish it on some ship biscuit. Steak, chops, sausages, bacon, slices of any kind of meat can be cooked in a frying-pan, with a little melted fat at the bottom. Salt meat should always be soaked.--Veile's Hand Book of Active Service.

pops

09-03-2004, 09:36 PM

O.K. where do I start with this one.My local gro.store will not carry slab bacon or the correct salt pork but I did run across smoked hog jowls,after looking through web pages the common way of preparing it was to boil with greens.I belive this to be a common pratice,any one have any other ideas,and can you tell me if smoked hog jowls would last through a campaign event

LWhite64

09-03-2004, 09:42 PM

Well it can also be fried. It was always a family tradition to have hog jowl and black eyed peas on New Years Day. I never really cared for the stuff. By being smoked that will make it last longer, so I wouldnt worry about it spoiling if it is truely smoked. The whole idea there being the salt and smoking would enable meat to last longer.

Lee

48Sarge

09-04-2004, 08:55 AM

LWhite64

09-04-2004, 09:30 AM

I think Hog Jowls are more or a southern food item. Yes it is the jaw as well.

Lee

btwils

09-04-2004, 10:50 AM

Jowl meat can also be fried. The store where I get mine in AL is also heavly salted as well as smoked. It will last the weekend and some of it has a lot of meat in it as well as the Fat/skin.
Brian Wislon

Vuhginyuh

09-04-2004, 11:24 AM

Aaron,
It is cured fat meat from the cheeks ( jaw and neck).
It is rendered for flavoring and can eaten like bacon or left in the fat to add meat to peas or greens. At home it was used mostly in Black-eyed, crowder or field peas. Collards are the greens of choice. As with anything of this nature its favorite use is regional.

Hallo Herr Garrison. Just in case, please check your Auto-Sig feature if you have altered it within the past day or so... Thanks. Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

Garrison Beall

Yeah, this was posted with the auto Sig On and then I deleted it from the Profile.

NC5thCav

09-04-2004, 04:23 PM

I have seen several references to soldiers dying of heat strokes. Wonder how many were really heat strokes and how many were heart attacks? :confused:

Ringgold

09-05-2004, 01:36 AM

Alright, I'l bite, what exactly are hog jowls? I realize it is a pork product, but does it come where I think it comes from? Growing up with a Pennsylvania Dutch Grnadmother we ate some strange things (cow tongue, dandelions), but don't think I've ever seen hog jowls?

Aaron,

Your Mom-mom fed it to you, only it was in the Pannhas!* :tounge_sm

*that's scrapple if your an English and don't know no better . . .

55th VVI

09-05-2004, 02:49 AM

Ok, scrapple is pushing the line. Thats about as bad as stopping at the chili dog shack on the side of the road here in jersey, or hitting the roach coach in the school/constrution site parking lot.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

09-05-2004, 09:40 AM

Vuhginyuh

09-05-2004, 11:00 AM

Jowl signature test......

Garrison Beall

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

09-05-2004, 11:37 AM

Hallo Kamerad!

Jowl-wohl!

Thanks.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Moderator

DonSmithnotTMD

09-05-2004, 11:45 AM

Hallo Kameraden!

What's a little, or a lot, of congealed clear grease as cholesterol would not be invented for a hundred years or more.

Scrapple, sousse, pig's knuckles, pig's feet, pig snout, head cheese, ox tail, Lindburger Kaese mit Musik- ah.... life in... Pennsylvania.

Hold the chitlins please.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Mangeur du Lard Mess

MR Schmidt,
Stop it!!! Things are bad enough here in the Land of the Morning Clam (sic).
On the other hand, tehre are some strange things that turn up in rations (check your local OR). BTW - Food Lion has some salt pork that will take brine pretty well. Here's a lesson learned. Keep it in the dark. I made some in a clear plastic tub in normal light and got a lot of mold.

billwatson

09-05-2004, 11:47 AM

I think conditions overall were far more likely to produce heat-related problems than heart-related problems. Lack of water on the march is the killer -- wool clothing is not so much of a problem so long as you can sweat, but take away a steady supply of water and you are quite quickly at the threshold of serious overheating. I think the normal condition on the march, at least for the big movements of the big armies, would be "not enough water," especially in the heat of summer when streams tend to be at their lowest.

My understanding based on various casual readings,during which I didn't take notes to provide citations, is that the kind of heart-related problems we are seeing today afflict a far great proportion of our population than was the case in earlier times.Whether that's a cultural outcome due to how people lived or some wrinkle caused by inaccurate diagnoses, I dunno.

48Sarge

09-05-2004, 12:49 PM

Mark,

There was a lot of other stuff in that Pannhas that I would care to rather not know about as well! Oh well, what does not kill me......

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

09-05-2004, 02:04 PM

Hallo Kameraden!

Once, around Chrismouse time, while visiting some acquaintances who ran a Chinese Restaurant...

They brought me a square of something I thought was a lemon square type dessert.
However, my first bite down signalled my instant doom.

It was rancid, chopped fish heads gelled in clear congealed grease with the white fat having settled to the bottom.

Yummy, that.

And we talk of salt pork... ;-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Who Once Spent Many Years in the Company of Orientals Mess
Proud Member of the Acquired Taste Rifles

DonSmithnotTMD

09-05-2004, 02:36 PM

OOH -- I once went to a real Chinese food buffet in celebration of a christening (friends of my (soon to be) ex-wife). Amazing.

Skeet

09-05-2004, 03:07 PM

Pards, There is a market here in VA that sells the best hog jowl. It's in Penn Laird, the name of the place is Gayle's Market. You can get just about anything that has to do with pork. If you cook it with greens, I pity the person who has to spoon next to you! :sarcastic

DonSmithnotTMD

09-05-2004, 10:58 PM

How do you get there from here? Well actually N.C.

orngblsm

09-07-2004, 04:56 PM

Makoski4141

09-07-2004, 05:07 PM

Gents,

Some of my pards and I are planning on doing a ration issue. We wanted to add candles into the picture, but I can't see paying $.75 a candle for 50 candles. Just wondering if anyone knew of a source that sells bulk candles that are period accurate for the federal army.

Respectfully,
I do not know if you find this worth doing but if you check out www.Jastown.com they sell candle molds, beeswax, and wicks. Then you could make the candles your self which is quite easy. It might cost you $60.00 and whenever you need candles just buy a pound off beezwax which runs about $10.00 and it makes a good amount of candles.

Andrew Birnbaum

MissMaggie

09-07-2004, 06:45 PM

I've had some good luck buying hand dipped candles from a local candle outlet. Unfortunatly, the place went out of business. When they were open I think I was able to get 12 candles for just under 8 dollars. I can't for the life of me remember the name of the place but at least the idea is there.

Spinster

09-07-2004, 07:02 PM

Makin' candles aint' as easy as its cracked up to be. :baring_te Got the spots on my ceiling to prove it--they go nicely with the spots resulting from Ben Thomas's ginger beer receipt. Like corset making, I've learned to leave these processes to experienced pros, and tend to my dyepots like a proper old crone.

Not knowing exactly what is required of a Federal issue candle, I can't say that this would be a match. I have purchased in bulk from her though, and her candles are all she says they are. Wade past the popups and any web based ordering-call her, leave a message and wait.

http://members.tripod.com/Bushwomans/

VIrginia Mescher

09-07-2004, 07:17 PM

I do not know if you find this worth doing but if you check out www.Jastown.com they sell candle molds, beeswax, and wicks. Then you could make the candles your self which is quite easy. It might cost you $60.00 and whenever you need candles just buy a pound off beezwax which runs about $10.00 and it makes a good amount of candles.

Andrew Birnbaum

In researching for an article on candles, I found that beeswax was usually dipped or ladled rather than molded. Pure beeswax is sticky and difficult to remove from the molds.

Candles of the period were mostly of three kinds - tallow, beeswax, and adamantine. Aviod the modern paraffine candles. They are not correct for the period and will soften and melt in the sun. Although the term paraffine candles was used, the paraffine was made beech tar or peat.

Tallow candles were either dipped or molded but were fairly soft, difficult to use in the summer, smelly and smokey. They were readily available commercially but were still made at home, at least in the south. Beewax burned cleanly but were mostly purchased and not made at home. Adamantine candles were a commercially made candle and could not be made at home. They burned cleanly, burned longer, were hard and didn't bend as the tallow ones would, and were less expensive than beeswax. In reading store ledgers, the adamantine candles were by far the most popular.

If the impression is a federal one, most of the candles were provided by Proctor and Gamble and were called "Star" candles. By that time, the Star candles were adamantine rather than tallow, which they first produced. The army regulations provided for use of tallow, adamantine and sperm, with a specific amount for each type of candle issued. More tallow candles were issued per company than would have been when adamantine or sperm were issued.

Although the adamantine candles are more expensive than common modern paraffin candles are, they burn longer and are much more authentic. If anyone is interested in adamantine candles, please contact me privately at vmescher@vt.edu.

Hank Trent

09-07-2004, 07:25 PM

Just curious if dipped or beeswax candles were issued by the Federal army in any significant quantities.

The regulations gave the equivalents for star, spermaceti or tallow candles in the rations, but beeswax wasn't listed. Are there references to them being issued though?

Dipped vs. molded I don't know much about, but would be curious to see references to large-scale commercial candle-dipping in the 1860s. What little I've run across seems to indicate molding was the standard commercial method.

We've purchased plain white molded 7/8" diameter stearine (adamantine, star) candles in bulk from Cathedral Candles at http://cathedralcandles.com/prod_main.cfm?productTypeId=45 . Over the phone they told us they were 100% stearine, and they certainly have all the long-burning, hard qualities that were attributed to adamantine candles in the period. But they're indistinguishable from regular modern white paraffin candles (not that paraffine candles are totally anachronistic), and I wish I knew how to tell whether they were indeed 100% stearine and whether they actually have the same qualities as stearine candles of the period.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

VIrginia Mescher

09-07-2004, 08:35 PM

[QUOTE=Hank Trent]Just curious if dipped or beeswax candles were issued by the Federal army in any significant quantities.

The regulations gave the equivalents for star, spermaceti or tallow candles in the rations, but beeswax wasn't listed. Are there references to them being issued though?

I've not found any reference to beeswax candles being issued.

But they're indistinguishable from regular modern white paraffin candles (not that paraffine candles are totally anachronistic), and I wish I knew how to tell whether they were indeed 100% stearine and whether they actually have the same qualities as stearine candles of the period.

100% stearine candles clack when hit together and other candles will clunk. Also, if you run a fingernail down a stearine candle the substance will chip off in flakes and with paraffin candles, the wax will come off in a ribbon.

Makoski4141

09-07-2004, 09:06 PM

Im thinking that if you find a sutler that carries tallow or star candles you should contact them and arrange for a special order. Maybe they will give you a discount.

Andrew Birnbaum

ThehosGendar

09-07-2004, 11:11 PM

markj

09-08-2004, 12:23 AM

Gents,

I present to you the official sequel to my wildly popular post, "An apple amid the cornstalks."

On July 2nd, 1863, on the ground in front of Little Round Top over which passed the left flank of Robertson's brigade...

http://www.3nj.org/lrt.jpg
(LC-B817- 7493 <P&P>)

... there lies a can amongst the rocks.

http://www.3nj.org/can.jpg

I wonder what it could have been!

Nice bit of detective work, old boy. The short answer is, of course, "We'll never know." The can could have been discarded by one of the photographers, or by a soldier passing through, or even by a citizen foraging for battlefield souvenirs or booty. All of the aforementioned explanations are entirely reasonable.

Maybe you should contact William Frassanito about this item as well.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

huntdaw

09-08-2004, 12:57 AM

Hopefully it's not a can of Dinty Moore beef stew. We'll never hear the end of it from the streamers :D .

VIrginia Mescher

09-08-2004, 10:00 AM

Gents,

Some of my pards and I are planning on doing a ration issue. We wanted to add candles into the picture, but I can't see paying $.75 a candle for 50 candles. Just wondering if anyone knew of a source that sells bulk candles that are period accurate for the federal army.

Respectfully,

Ryan,

Another thing to consider is that each man was not issued a candle. The ORs state that one pound of sperm, one and a quarter pounds of adamantine or star or one and a half pounds of tallow candles were issued per 100 men. The difference in the recommended number of each kind of candle was due to the various burning times of each type of candle, with tallow burning
the fastest and sperm burning the longest.

BobSullivanPress

09-08-2004, 11:35 AM

I don't know what they're made of, but IKEA sells boxes of candles for about $5. They look just like Federal Issue candles, same shape, size and color. They seem to burn long also, provided you don't put them in a tin lantern (which you wouldn't anyway). Anyway, you get about 25-30 candles for $5, which comes out to about 20 cents a candle.

I'm stating this simply for informational purposes. If your unit requires candles made from specific materials, you probably don't want to go to IKEA.

VIrginia Mescher

09-08-2004, 12:19 PM

I don't know what they're made of, but IKEA sells boxes of candles for about $5.
I'm stating this simply for informational purposes. If your unit requires candles made from specific materials, you probably don't want to go to IKEA.

The cheaper candles you mentioned are not stearin candles and are made mostly from paraffin which is not nearly as hard as stearin. Some candle makers add stearin to the paraffin but you still don't have as good of a qualtity as a 100% stearine candle.

BobSullivanPress

09-08-2004, 01:09 PM

100% stearine candles clack when hit together and other candles will clunk. Also, if you run a fingernail down a stearine candle the substance will chip off in flakes and with paraffin candles, the wax will come off in a ribbon.

Well, they clack... :)

hiplainsyank

09-08-2004, 01:21 PM

Notice how the debris seems to take a rough line "behind" the rocks (at least, relative to forces holding the Round Tops). Wasn't this area occupied by various troops the 3rd and 4th? Someone maybe had a can of peaches or something to eat during their long, tense time holding this position.

My 2 cents.

VIrginia Mescher

09-08-2004, 01:22 PM

Well, they clack... :)

Bob,

How does the fingernail test do? The softer paraffin will ribbon and the hard stearine will only come off in flakes.

When I mentioned the clack sound, it is like the toy clackers that was popular years ago. The sound is more high pitched than the clunking sound that paraffin candles make.

Lone_Rebel87

09-08-2004, 01:24 PM

Now didin't there commanders tell them not to leave their coke cans lying around. :tounge_sm

Jordan Davis

MBBursig

09-08-2004, 07:01 PM

Jason,

I think maybe it is a can of some of that Rice Pudding :rolleyes: ....

But on a more serious note its kind of amazing/ interesting to see what different types of debris and such gets left on the battlefield. Imagine what type of rations from haversacks and such were strewn about the place.

Matt

Jim of The SRR

09-08-2004, 11:13 PM

I saw a post recently stating that the parafin candles of the 19th c. looked very much like the cheap emergency candles you can buy at the Dollar Store (10 for $1.00). The only slight difference was the tip of period candles would have been a bit more bell shaped. Again, this based on reading an old post and not based on any research I have done personally.

regards,
Jim Butler
The SRR

Hank Trent

09-09-2004, 11:32 AM

I have seen several references to soldiers dying of heat strokes. Wonder how many were really heat strokes and how many were heart attacks? :confused:

While researching something else entirely (period hollow-earth theories), I came across the following, from http://koreshan.mwweb.org/teed.htm. Not a primary source, but apparently an uncritical summary of his condition from primary sources.

While on the march near Warrenton Junction, Virginia on August 1, 1863, he suffered sunstroke which led to paralysis of his left arm and leg. He was assigned to Ward 2, bed 71 at the General Hospital in Alexandria, Virginia where he was treated for sixty-one days until his release (August 7, 1863-October 16, 1863). He was granted a discharge from the army...

Sunstroke causing one-sided paralysis? Sounds like it could have been what we would call a stroke.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

2ndMDRebel

09-10-2004, 10:07 PM

Maybe it was the proverbial can of whoop-*ss that the rebels opened up on the 3rd corps?

-------------
Tom Metzger

Lone Guard

09-15-2006, 10:19 PM

I've tried a few different hardtack recipes, and each one turned out poorly.
Some said to use different types of flour, some said to bake at different temperatures or lengths of time.
For those who make their own hardtack, do you know a recipe that you use and like well? If someone could please post a link that they like, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You.

Kevin O'Beirne

09-15-2006, 11:00 PM

This has been posted before, but for any who haven't seen it:

HARDTACK

Ingredients:
• 4 cups of flour in a large bowl*
• Optional: 2 tablespoons of cream of tartar. (This adds some “air” to the finished crackers and makes them a bit “less dense”. It does not create big air pockets and the crackers will still turn out quite hard. This ingredient can be omitted.)** Mix with the flour in the bowl.
• 1 teaspoon of baking soda**
• 1½ teaspoons of salt
• 1 cup of water

Dissolve the salt and soda (if used) in the cup of water.

Mix all ingredients well. Roll out dough ½-inch to 3/8-inch thick with a rolling pin. Because original, issued hardtack was uniform, by far the best results are obtained with a hardtack cutter. If a hardtack cutter is unavailable, cut the dough into squares approximately 3 inches by 3 inches. Use a 1/8-inch diameter dowel to create sixteen holes in each cracker in a 4 by 4 pattern. A hardtack cutter is optimal.

Bake for 20 to 25 minutes at 450 degrees. When done, let air-dry for minimum of twenty-four hours, preferably more, before the crackers are placed into a bag or sealed container. Yield: 9 to 11 crackers.

* Period hardtack contractors used a flour known as “cracker flour”, which can be simulated by mixing one part pastry flour with three parts ordinary, unbleached flour.

** This ingredient is a popular “reenactor addition” to the recipe that was not present in Civil War hardtack. This ingredient will help make your crackers slightly more palatable but, for increased authenticity, omit this ingredient.

Lone Guard

09-16-2006, 12:39 AM

You know what, I didn't even search. I'm sorry.

fedhead

09-16-2006, 03:15 AM

I use the recipe above without any additions and it is successful every time . The crackers taste fine as well

Will Eichler

09-20-2006, 11:33 AM

Looking for help from the woodworkers. I've saved info on cracker boxes for some years now and am working on one based on the dimensions and information in the CMH article.

I'm used to working with dimensional lumber but have never wrapped or bent raw wood. Does anyone know much about the process? Any tips or advice to give?

Thanks in advance.

Best,

Will

billwatson

09-20-2006, 01:07 PM

Not sure what you need, but from boatbuilding I know you can get a lot more out of wood that needs to be bent if you wrap towels around it and pour boiling water over it and let it sit for a few minutes. If you're bending a lot you'd probably be better off making a steaming rig of some kind, but for casual work, this does a good job, especially on smaller stuff.
Basketmakers also soak material sometimes to make it more pliable.

J.H.Berger

09-20-2006, 02:14 PM

Will as far as I know cracker boxes were not held together by saplings, but barrels were.
Best
Jan

AZReenactor

09-20-2006, 06:34 PM

Boxes were indeed bound with sapling banding.

Here is a nice image from the Syke's Regulars website (http://www.cwreenactors.com/%7Esykes/equipment/LOC_barrels_boxes.php).
http://www.cwreenactors.com/%7Esykes/images/LOC/Barrels_and_Boxes/62BH_03974u_1t.jpg (http://www.cwreenactors.com/%7Esykes/images/LOC/Barrels_and_Boxes/62BH_03974u_1.jpg)
http://www.cwreenactors.com/%7Esykes/images/LOC/Barrels_and_Boxes/62BH_03974u_2t.jpg (http://www.cwreenactors.com/%7Esykes/images/LOC/Barrels_and_Boxes/62BH_03974u_2.jpg)
http://www.cwreenactors.com/%7Esykes/images/LOC/Barrels_and_Boxes/62BH_03974u_3t.jpg (http://www.cwreenactors.com/%7Esykes/images/LOC/Barrels_and_Boxes/62BH_03974u_3.jpg)
If you look closely you can see the sapling banding around the ends of the boxes.

Michael McComas

09-20-2006, 07:30 PM

Sam Doolin has reproduced cracker boxes wrapped with sapling. You might shoot him an email or give him a call. I haven't chatted with him in about a year, so I don't know if he's still in business or not.

Cheers,

Michael

billwatson

09-20-2006, 09:47 PM

OK, got it.

Those are split saplings, split in half with the flat side against the box. Pretty ingenious. They are probably used very green and limber. You can split them with a knife, start at the butt and try to get as much as you can before it runs off to one side or the other. It seems like they ran the sapling all the way around the box and doubled it on itself for a little ways, so it has to be as long as it is around the box plus a few inches.

Wonder if any one kind of wood lends itself to this better than another? Hope it doesn't turn out to be one of the woods we don't have any more, like elm. I bet willow would work. It looks somewhat like hickory in the one photo, but it's really hard to tell.

Will Eichler

09-20-2006, 10:19 PM

Bill,

I'll say thanks to Mark Jaeger for the following quote out of the 1863 US regs. I have a set but since he filled it typed it in during a discussion about the hardtack crates in the past, I can copy and paste.

"The dimensions for hardtack boxes, bacon boxes, salt meat barrels, etc. are stated in U.S. Army Regulations of 1861 (rev. 1863) on pages 301-302 in the subsistence section under the heading "MISCELLANEOUS ITEMS." An "average box" for hard bread was to be 26 x 17 x 11 inches, exterior in measure. "The ends of a box of this size should be of inch, and the remainder of five-eighths, stuff, the package well strapped with green hickory or other suitable wood."

I'm now looking for some hickory.

Best,

Will

J.H.Berger

09-21-2006, 04:05 AM

Yes thanks Mark! MY errand!

GrumpyDave

09-21-2006, 08:04 AM

Split the saplings green, birch works well, and tack them on with small period nails. Birch or any saplings should be easy to find, nails, well, that's another story.

Will Eichler

09-21-2006, 10:18 AM

Dave,

I can help you with the second, or the nails.

http://www.tremontnail.com/

I haven't bought from them in years (big stock in the shop right now) but they were good when last I worked with them.

Mods, feel free to modify this if it in some way goes against our approved vendor rules.

Best,

Will

billwatson

09-21-2006, 10:48 AM

Second on Tremont, they are terrific. I find myself using them in modern applications. :-)

Hargis, G. 5 A-1

09-21-2006, 11:51 AM

Second on Tremont, they are terrific. I find myself using them in modern applications. :-)

Cut nails, like those from Tremont, hold better than wire nails.

Glen E. Hargis

redroosterinalabama

09-21-2006, 04:14 PM

I have seen furniture, chairs, tables and bedsteads made here in Alabama from willow tree limbs. These are soaked and woven, bent & tacked to make many rustic articles. I suppose the thin branches would work for securing boxes.
mike boyd
redroosterinalabama

Charles Heath

09-21-2006, 08:10 PM

Will,

You have received some good advice thus far. This is a good time of year to look for some hickory saplings, as the leaves are turning that distinctive rich gold (yes, like the 1970s kitchen appliances), and the hickory nut hulls are scattered on the ground. You can find images of hickory trees and leaves for identification purposes in several places on the Internet.

I have worked in shops that had a plethora of 18th and 19th century woodworking equipment, but if you are not so blessed, try the following cheats:

- If you can't find hickory, ash works well, white oak and willow, too, and so does common mulberry in a pinch. Elm doesn't like to split worth a dang (that's why it was used for wagon hubs in many instances), so avoid that and sweet gum.

- Cut a few extra saplings so you won't have to go back into the woods. For small wood like this a common pair of pruning loppers works fine for cutting and limbing.

- You'll want a small froe for splitting. If you don't have one, chuck a dull lawnmower blade in a bench vise, and a similar purpose will be achieved. Why dull? Dull will follow the grain. Sharp will cut the grain. Start the split with a cleaver or a hatchet to center the first inch or so of split. Pull the sapling like a Y across the vertical blade and hold your mouth right. Yep, it will run out one way or the other if you go to fast. The idea is to split a piece of stock with a semi-circular profile. Go slow. Have patience. Make your stock as long as you can, just for the fun of it. If you like this, you'll love making splints for chair bottoms and baskets. My advice is to keep your day job.

- A wood steamer is good for bending purposes, but a steam iron is more common, and as mentioned earlier, boiling water works in a pinch. Don't let the bands dry out for a few weeks before using them. The band may crack and splinter a little, but don't get excited. The real box bands did that, too. If you plan on doing this often, get a length of 6" PVC with a couple of end caps for keeping the wood pliable.

- Tremont is a great supplier. When they are gone, we'll miss them greatly; however, living where you do you MAY have an old time full service hardware store, and they MAY have a selection of small cut nails. Ask them.

- Once you have installed the split hickory bands, take that hatchet and make four cuts to open the box. Technically, you only need two, but when the wood dries out, you'll wish you had four. About half of our boxes are this way, and they bands last for several events. Why cut the bands? Well, if you are like we were the first few boxes....well, um, we forgot to put the dang crackers in the box first. :o If you do it correctly, there is a certain amount of joy in busting open the bands of a cracker box, or bashing the head of a barrel of salt pork. :wink_smil

- If you use a paper liner, only use that liner with crackers that are already molded, just for presentation purposes. Paper draws moisture, and encourages mold. If you happen to place the crackers on a concrete or soil floor, use scrap wood for dunnage, or just free pallet from the local plumbing supply house. This will save a bunch of crackers, and you'll notice this is also period advice.

- We tend to load up crackers before they have dried completely. This is a period practice we can avoid. Setting the crackers in the warm afternoon sun can be a big help, even after the normal 48-hour drying period.

- Setting the box on end at about a 70 degree angle facilitates loading the crackers, and you can achieve a very nice stack to the point of a market pack appearance. That sounds strange, but a full box of hardtack has a certain allure.

Good luck.

Hank Trent

09-21-2006, 09:55 PM

Pull the sapling like a Y across the vertical blade and hold your mouth right.

In addition to all that Charles said, one secret to controlling the split is to bend harder on the side that's getting too thin. This will guide the split back to the center. Despite being experienced with woodwork himself, Thoreau ran into the same frustration watching an Indian split cedar roots for the first time, on a trip to Maine:

He split the end with his knife, and taking a half between the thumb and forefinger of each hand, rapidly separated its whole length into two equal semi-cylindrical halves; then giving me another root, he said, "You try." But in my hands it immediately ran off one side, and I got only a very short piece. In short, though it looked very easy, I found that there was a great art in splitting these roots. The split is skilfully humored by bending short with this hand or that, and so kept in the middle

Barrel hoops were traditionally pounded after being soaked; if you run into problems, that might add some flexibility. Also, if you can cut them when there's more sap in them, the better, since that puts you ahead on moisture.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

John Legg

10-17-2006, 04:59 PM

Hi all,

i was wondering what type of rice is authentic? was it issued as rations?

Thanks
John

AZReenactor

10-17-2006, 05:18 PM

Hi all,

i was wondering what type of rice is authentic? was it issued as rations?

John,
Might I suggest you consider picking up a book and doing some reading on the lives and rations of soldiers. Heck, you don't even have to buy a book, just borrow one from your local library. At the very least try something like searching Google for "Civil War" rice rations (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Civil+War%22+rice+rations). Or you might just go post your query on Szazbos forum, might I suggest the thread on period rice (http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1805&highlight=rice).

Then once you've done a bit of reading and research on rice, why not come back here and share what you have learned?

John Legg

10-17-2006, 05:27 PM

Taken from Hardtack and Coffee

http://www.civilwarhome.com/hardtackandcoffee.htm

I will now give a complete list of the rations served out to the rank and file, as I remember them. They were salt pork, fresh beef, salt beef, rarely ham or bacon, hard bread, soft bread, potatoes, an occasional onion, flour, beans, split pease, rice, dried apples, dried peaches, desiccated vegetables, coffee, tea, sugar, molasses, vinegar, candles, soap, pepper, and salt.

It is scarcely necessary to state that these were not all served out at one time. There was but one kind of meat served at once, and this.. . was usually pork. When it was hard bread, it wasnt soft bread or flour, and when it was peas or beans it wasnt rice.

Here is just what a single ration comprised, that is, what a soldier was entitled to have in one day. He should have had twelve ounces of pork or bacon, or one pound four ounces of salt or fresh beef; one pound six ounces of soft bread or flour, or one pound of hard bread, or one pound four ounces of corn meal. With every hundred such rations there should have been distributed one peck of beans or peas; ten pounds of rice or hominy; ten pounds of green coffee, or eight pounds of roasted and ground, or one pound eight ounces of tea; fifteen pounds of sugar; one pound four ounces of candles; four pounds of soap; two quarts of salt; four quarts of vinegar; four ounces of pepper; a half bushel of potatoes when practicable, and one quart of molasses. Desiccated potatoes or desiccated compressed vegetables might be substituted for the beans, peas, rice, hominy, or fresh potatoes. Vegetables, the dried fruits, pickles, and pickled cabbage were occasionally issued to prevent scurvy, but in small quantities.

AZReenactor

10-17-2006, 05:42 PM

John.
Very good! Now you are getting the idea. There's some great things in books (some are even online as you discovered) waiting to be found.

DougCooper

10-17-2006, 06:15 PM

Neill Rose (Ironscout) is a student of some the originial Rice varieties present during the war, including Plantation Rice from SC. He has often served or had it issued at events. Great stuff. Contact him through the forum for details.

Check out any number of Carolina's campaign accounts from federal soldiers. Those boys were a bit tired of it by arriving in NC.

Vuhginyuh

10-17-2006, 06:21 PM

http://www.carolinagoldricefoundation.org/

Charles Heath

10-17-2006, 06:28 PM

WARNING: DISABLE YOUR AUDIO
BEFORE
CLICKING THIS LINK!

If he likes that, then he'll love this:

http://home.att.net/~Cap1MD/Drill.htm

Note Viele's and H.L. Scott's in the bottom left corner.

3alabama

10-17-2006, 06:33 PM

WARNING: DISABLE YOUR AUDIO
BEFORE
CLICKING THIS LINK!

If he likes that, then he'll love this:

http://home.att.net/~Cap1MD/Drill.htm

Note Viele's and H.L. Scott's in the bottom left corner.

Maybe I am missing something but what does this link have to do with the question asked about rice?

Charles Heath

10-17-2006, 06:46 PM

Maybe I am missing something but what does this link have to do with the question asked about rice?

The two links referenced on that page provide excellent period cooking instructions, and once the questioner has his rice in hand, he may want to cook it in a period manner. A couple of other good tidbits are on that page, as well. Repops of Viele's is still available in paperback, and repops of H. L. Scott's in hardback can be found used now and then.

John Legg

10-17-2006, 07:09 PM

Thanks to all of you for this information! :D

John

Spinster

10-17-2006, 07:12 PM

Sigh. Chawls---your point started on another board fully illustrated on this one, re my studied ignorance of military matters.

That's a dandy reference. Looks like I'll be learning more about military camps than I ever thought a decent woman should know. That is the sweet rice receipt I've been using--it was just as good cold on Sunday morning at Perryville as it was hot on Saturday morning.

And I think we'll be fond of "cheap lemonade" as well.

John, the Carolina Gold rice link provided above is a heritage seed-stock, and available by mail order, along with some other period appropriate foods on the same site.

John Legg

10-17-2006, 07:24 PM

Ok thank you very much

Lone Guard

10-17-2006, 07:47 PM

Just be sure you cook your rice ALL the way through.
The extra couple minutes of waiting for the rice to finish cooking is a lot shorter than your trip to the sinks will be after that stuff finishes expanding in your stomach.

Charles Heath

10-17-2006, 07:58 PM

That is the sweet rice receipt I've been using--it was just as good cold on Sunday morning at Perryville as it was hot on Saturday morning.

Yep, it is quite a bit different than the Jasmine rice commonly found by the 50 lbs. sack in this household. Since the close of the season is upon us, I'm batting around updating the foodstuffs vendor list again, explaining the period variety vegetables grown and provided for our events over the past few years, and wrapping some happy text around it all for the newsletter. We'll see how that goes.

springkeeper

10-17-2006, 10:24 PM

The Carolina Plantation rice is very good and very easy to cook.

Carrie Craddock

John Legg

10-17-2006, 10:37 PM

How much is it, i couldnt find a price on the site! its probaly there i possibaly just missed. i just skimmed through it!

John

John-Owen Kline

10-17-2006, 11:27 PM

Order rice (and high quality corn products) from;

http://www.ansonmills.com/page22/page35/page35.html

Spinster

10-18-2006, 01:03 AM

Mr. Legg,

The direct link to Carolina Plantation is below

http://www.carolinaplantationrice.com/

Pricing changes with volume, so look to your unit needs for a season.

These folks were most kind and accomodating in working with us last spring at Fort Moultrie, and I believe what I didn't cook up went on to Rich Mountain.

John Legg

11-08-2006, 10:18 PM

Thank you all, ive found my answer.

i will be buying some, when i get the money. i just whiped out my wallet on a commutation jacket! :D

Thanks and Cheers,

fortykin

11-09-2006, 02:32 AM

Gentlemen,

The following is some info I came up with while searching for info on dessicated vegetables the other night. The soldier that wrote this was posted in Indian territory in late 1864. It is by far the best description I have seen for "desicrated" vegetables.

"We never had any fresh vegetables at Julesburg; they could not be got to us. But there were issued to us what were called "desiccated vegetables." In the true pronunciation of the word the second syllable is long, but it was called by the boys as if it were dessy-kated, with accent on the third syllable. It was made of onions, cabbages, beets, turnips, carrots and peppers, steamed, pressed and dried. They were almost in the form of leaves pressed together. They were pressed, after they were dry, into cakes twelve inches square, and an inch thick. They were pressed so hard that they weighed about as much as wood, and came sealed up in tin cans about a foot square. They were intended to be put into the soups, and were largely used by us for that purpose. They were very nutritious, and it was convenient, when we went on scouts, for the boys to break off a piece and put it in a saddle-pocket. The boys would nibble at it as they were riding along; it was a kind of leguminous bread, and they ate about as much of it dry as they did by putting it into soups."

The following is the link to the site this came from:
http://www.kancoll.org/books/ware/ew_chap27.htm

t

fortykin

11-09-2006, 02:59 AM

BTW, I forgot to leave my name on the last post.

Bill McCormick

AZReenactor

11-09-2006, 10:59 AM

Bill,
What a great resource. Thank you for sharing.

I found several great books in the Kansas Collection (http://www.kancoll.org/books/) including The Prairie Taraveler.

Commerce of the Prairies - Gregg, Josiah (1844)
A Campaign in New Mexico With Col. Doniphan - Edwards, Frank S. (1847)
Report of the Committee of the Massachusetts Emigrant Aid Society,
with the Act of Incorporation (1854)
Kansas: Its Interior and Exterior Life - Robinson, Sara T. L. (1856)
Six Months in Kansas - Ropes, Hannah Anderson (1856)
Governor Geary's Administration in Kansas - Gihon, John H., M.D. (1857)
The Prairie Traveler: A Hand-book for Overland Expeditions - Marcy, Randoph Barnes, Captain, U. S. A. (1859)
Went to Kansas - Colt, Miriam D. (1862)
The Lawrence Massacre - Cordley, R. (1865)
Memorial Book of E. C. D. Lines (1867)
Cattle Trade of the West and Southwest - McCoy, Joseph G. (1874)
My Life on the Plains - Custer, General George Armstrong (1874)
The Andreas History of the State of Nebraska - Cutler, Wm. G. (1882)
The Andreas History of the State of Kansas - Cutler, Wm. G. (1883)
Emigrant Life in Kansas - Ebbutt, Percy G. (1886)
Twin Hells - Reynolds, John N. (1890)
Extract from Marvels of the New West - Thayer, William M. (1890)
Kansas Exhibits of the 1893 World Columbian Exposition
A History of Lawrence, Kansas - Cordley, Richard (1895)
The Real Issue - White, William Allen (1896)
Some of the Rhymes of Ironquill (1896) [in progress]
In His Steps - Sheldon, Charles M. (1896, 1909)
Last of the Great Scouts - Wetmore, Helen Cody (1899, 1917)
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz - Baum, Lyman Frank (1900).
Old Settlers' Tales - Crevecoeur, F. F. (1902)
Pioneer Days in Kansas - Cordley, R. (1903)
Legends of the Kaw - De Voe, Carrie (1904)
American Thumbprints - Stephens, Kate (1905)
The South Dakota National Guard Goes to Fort Riley, Souvenir Book (1906)
KANSAS: The Prelude to the War for the Union - Spring, Leverett Wilson (1906)
The People’s Reveille, Souvenir Book - Hill City, Graham Co., Kansas (1906)
The Indian War of 1864 - Ware, Eugene F. (1911)
Report of the Committee of the Kansas State Historical Society
on the Santa Fe Trail Through Kansas (1911-1912)

Santa Fe Trail maps:
Eastern Section
Central Section
Western Section

The History of Johnson County, Kansas - Blair, Ed (1915) [in progress]
Tales and Trails of Wakarusa - Harvey, A. M. (1917)
Howard Chase, Red Hill - Sheldon, Charles M. (1918)
The Martial Adventures of Henry and Me - White, William Allen (1918)
The Perry Home Cook Book (1920)
Life at Laurel Town in Anglo-Saxon Kansas - Stephens, Kate (1920/1936)
History of The 353rd Infantry Regiment, 89th Division, National Army, September 1917 - June 1919, - Dienst, Captain Charles F., et al. (1921)
The Story of a Kansas Pioneer - Anderson, Melissa Genett (1924)
The Last One - Maxton, Rosie Clem (1932)
The Pioneer History of Kansas - Roenigk, Adolph (1933)
The Grassland of North America - Malin, James C. (1946) (extract)
An Early History of North Lawrence (1961)
The Rath Trail - Rath, Ida Ellen (1961)
Wonderful Old Lawrence - Rowe, Elfriede Fischer (1971)
Autobiography of a Common Man - Beach, Milton
Sod Jerusalems: Jewish Agricultural Communities in Frontier Kansas - Harris, L. David (1984)
Do Tell: The Early Years - Dale, Don B. (1991)
Reflections from the Prairie - Schiller, George W. (1994)
The Cow from Grasshopper Falls - Brown, Mary Ann Sachse (illustrations by Roy Lee Brown) (1996)
A Prairie Wedding: Alonzo and Stella, October 21 1906 - Turner, Vern F. (1999)
The Abolitionist: A Saga of the Albert Gallatin Barrett family of early Kansas - Schiller, George W. (2002)

markj

11-09-2006, 11:01 AM

I've got a tongue-in-cheek description that's equally good:

Madison IN Daily Courier, 9 October 1861:

"PRESSED VEGETABLES" -- A soldier writing from the Potomac about his "feed," says: "We get a substance for soup called "pressed vegetables." It looks a good deal like a big plug of "dog leg" tobacco in shape and solidity, and is composed in part of potatoes, onions, beans, lettuce, garlic, parsely, parsnips, carrots, &c. I acknowledge eating two China tin plates full without convulsions of nature, and can now speak the German language with fluency."
***

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

Charles Heath

11-09-2006, 01:08 PM

This is when I really miss the lost data. :(

In the quest for a tin, Perfesser Tobey managed to find an image of part of one side of a tin in a relic book with the Chollet's label mostly intact. Still, the search goes on for that tin cube.

Don't know if I'll ever make enough dessicated veggies to feed 100 men again, but knowledge of the correct tin container would be a joy in itself. Some collector or museum has to have one of those jokers sitting around somewhere. One day, one day....

Kevin O'Beirne

11-09-2006, 01:35 PM

Excellent descriptions of dessicated veggies are provided in Hardtack and Coffee and Corporal Si Klegg and His Pard.

flattop32355

11-09-2006, 05:42 PM

Lone Guard

11-09-2006, 06:56 PM

Provided, of course, that you are still able to move at all. :wink_smil

Good point. I'm never going through that again, I don't care how hungry I am.

Lawrence

11-13-2006, 04:23 AM

I'd like to say a quick thanks to everyone posting on this thread, there's been some nice specific links that have been posted which will be very handy for me in the months to come.

I'm wondering if someone might be able to offer some info that's a little bit different to what's been put up so far? I'm putting together an event out here in Australia come next April, and therefore I'm not able to access some of the wonderful products that have been linked to here. I looked through the google searches but didn't come up with anything that gave a description of what a common modern equivelent would be to period Civil War rice. Is someone able to describe the types of grain used?? Also, was it aromatic at all, or just nice and plain, straight up rice? The Carolina Gold looks kind of chunky like an arborio or something, was that standard at the time, or??? You guys have cooked with these more appropriate products, therefore I'm seeking some help!!

I would like to include a period rice as a part of the ration issue for this event, and would like to get it mostly right, rather than just going down the local store and picking up their biggest, cheapest sack of whatever!

Thanks folks,

Shannon Brown

Charles Heath

11-13-2006, 09:52 AM

Shannon,

Take the time to email them directly, and inquire about the Carolina Gold rice description. The thousands of varieties of rice are typically categorized by length of grain first, and then broken down from there by less obvious features. For example, if the rice description is that of a short grained or pearl rice, then you'll know a little more about where to start at the local market. Their contact info is on their website.

You'd be surprised how many reenactors actually care about such details. ;)

Lawrence

11-14-2006, 06:12 AM

thanks for the tip Charles, I'll get onto them ...

And I know you guys care about these things, that's why I like lurking around here so much!

Thanks mate,

theknapsack

11-24-2006, 05:25 PM

I know I've posted this photo before, but it was lost along with the crash. So I'll post some cool details I've found in it. I'll leave it up to the board members to discuss.
Petersburg, Va. General view of the commissary department, 50th New York Engineers
CALL NUMBER
LC-B817- 7060

REPRODUCTION NUMBER
LC-DIG-cwpb-03676 DLC (digital file from original neg.)
LC-B8171-7060 DLC (b&w film neg.)
http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/03600/03676r.jpg
Attached are some good details from the image, in order:
1. Child or young man in non-regulation (civilian?) clothing
2. Man with Dark Blue (civilian?) trousers, vest, another with pet goats. Check out the uniform details!
3. Butcher and a spiffy looking soldier, plus barrel details (Beans and Onions, Beans highlighted)
4. One soldier with private purchase clothing (nice porkpie)? and an NCO with dark blue trousers.
5. Young Soldier with his sack coat tucked in and the collar folded in - like an overshirt. What is the cap?
6. (My personal favorite) Soldier performing Support Arms correctly at attention, plus notice the fully equipped tool-box on the ground behind him.

I've noticed more and more tucked sack coats as I do more photo research. Why do you suppose it is more consistent with soldiers who are working (or in engineers) than soldiers who are not. Can you find anymore details in this photo?

ephraim_zook

11-24-2006, 09:16 PM

There is much more neat stuff in this image. When I began to perform a commissary role, I looked hard at the several images that I could find, including this one. There are some other things in here that I like.
1) Above/behind the man at support arms is a stack of soft bread loaves.
2) Above the bean barrel is a spring scale. In fact, scales are abundant. There is a platform scale to our right of the guy with the dog (or goat) and a balance scale in the background between the building and the shed on the left.
3) The meat saw doesn't look much different than those in use today.
4) To our left of the support arms guy is an open box of white things -- candles maybe?
5) The NCO leaning in the doorway is wearing commissary sgt chevrons.
6) And the feller at support arms has one impressive saber bayonet on his rifle.

I have a couple of other commissary or quartermaster photos which seem to have been made to indicate the relative abundance of supplies that the federal army had. I'll try to remember to post one in the near future.

regards
Ron Myzie
Reenactment Nutrition Specialist

Charles Heath

11-24-2006, 10:36 PM

Riley,

That is also one of my favorite images, more for the exceptions than the norms. The Engineer Brigade has a number of good photographs, among them the church at their Poplar Grove camp, their "gingerbread house" headquarters, and their Rappahannock Station images are also good. Fans of Winter 1864, will enjoy the "50th breaking campt at Petersburg" image, as it will remind them of the end of that event.

One question that hasn't been answered about that image is whether or not it is a brigade commissary. The 1st, 15th, and 50th were in the Volunteer Engineer Brigade, although attached to different corps. The 50th was known in a good way for overbuilding just about everything, so it may just be the regimental commissary for their 12 companies. These 12 companies were broken into 2 battalions.

The fellow at support arms is guarding the rations. That is one of those "good ideas" found in a number of documents. To this day, food service items remain as one of those easily pilferable areas of supply.

Ron brings out some of the exceptions we normally don't see in the field. The fresh bread brought out via USMRR from City Point while still warm was such a morale booster that before the novelty wore off, this luxury was frequently mentioned in letters and journals.

The spring scale with the sharp hook is where it is for what reason? The meat is a clue. Most of us would recognize these scales for piscatorial pursuits. The balance scale has a different function. I can't help but wonder if they have a platform scale in one of those buildings. Thanks to the Fairbanks of Vermont, such devices had been around for around 30 years.

The meat saws have changed. Disposable stainless steel blades have been around for at least 30 years (Disston used to make some great ones), and more and more the ones hanging in shops (at least those inspected regularly) are of nonferrous materials. In the fleamarket collections along the way, I have seen old hacksaws still being used from time to time, but they were mostly decorative.

Candles would be my first guess, too. The image is just clear enough to reveal the individual rows of stearite candles, and they aren't packaged in 40 each packs of Star Candle 6s. That makes me wonder if the size and shape of the box may be soap. Remember when soap came in wood boxes? That portion of the image would be good to enlarge.

The containers add much to the image. Would that we could get barrels in that size and that style for a reasonable price these days. Look around, and do you see what familiar box is not there?

Their campsite remains as federal property to this day. It is Poplar Grove National Cemetery, and it is well worth a visit when in the Petersburg area. It doesn't receive a heck of a lot of visitation.

I can't remember if we beat this image to death on the Hard Case Boys Forum, but some good images with analysis are over there, too. Would we see such base of operations built by troops at most events? Probably not. Are similar purpose buildings represented at events such as Winter 1864? Yes.

C.R. Henderson

11-25-2006, 08:23 AM

theknapsack

11-25-2006, 02:18 PM

Upon a third lookover, I noticed some things in this image worth mentioning:
The Pockets of the man to the right are cut at a 45 degree angle, or curved, not unlike modern dungarees (image attached).
The Pockets of the man with his sack coat tucked in are what we call "mule ear pockets" Also the man to his right has a medal on (image attached).
The man in the doorway of the larger building is leaning on something, also there is a metal box with meat on top (what is the thing he is leaning on, and what is the metal box? image attached)
The man that I said had private purchase clothing, upon further close up inspection, probably does not. The slice of lining that is visible from the way he folded his collar reveals a striped (or plaid) lining, perhaps indicating that it came from Schulykill Arsenal.
The Butcher has on trousers where one can clearly see the split (vent) in the bootom of his trousers, and rather than over lapping like we see on most originals, it appears that it is just a split.
Most of the men, privates and NCO's alike, are wearing hat brass (with good reason. It appears as though the Commissary Sergeant and one of the men furthest right have full regimental insignia as well.
This image is constantly getting better, and I know there are people on this forum that have a better eye than I do. One thing that comes apparent in this image which is seemingly put down by the federal reenacting and living history community is the various types of pockets. Seeing different types of pockets is not uncommon in many LOC photos.
Check out the last attachment for a good example of pocket variation. Co G. 27th IL INF.

flattop32355

11-27-2006, 10:35 AM

I've noticed more and more tucked sack coats as I do more photo research. Why do you suppose it is more consistent with soldiers who are working (or in engineers) than soldiers who are not. Can you find anymore details in this photo?

Am I correct that this individual has no suspenders on? Could be it's just the way he keeps his trowsers up.

It's also possible that removing them is a way to keep your buttons from regularly getting popped off while doing heavy labor.

In the other similar photos of tucked sack coats, can you recall if the men are wearing braces, or seemingly engaged in manual labor?

Charles Heath

11-27-2006, 10:59 AM

Bernie,

Look through some period images, and you'll see tucked sack coats show up here and there, especially in cold weather images. I wonder if these same fellows tucked their overshirts back home, and if this was more common around men who worked with steam or water powered machinery in their pre-war lives than not.

tomarch

11-27-2006, 02:45 PM

Can anyone do a blow up of the window on the left-hand building? I did a total double-take! from a distance it looks like a modern aluminum slider. Since one on my interests is period construction I would like to see if it's a wood slider, fixes glass or some other stye of window.

theknapsack

11-27-2006, 05:43 PM

tomarch

11-27-2006, 07:16 PM

Thanks. It's just that the "look" of the window surprised me(*). I'm used to seeing verticaly proportioned double-hung windows w/ narrow mutins . I haven't seen many period windows that are horizontaly proportioned and I wasn't sure if was an openablewindow or a fixed galss window.

* I know it's not a metal window, It's just that from a distance it bears a close resemblance to a modern alum. sliding-glass window.

Charles Heath

11-27-2006, 08:20 PM

At least to my eye, the "familiar box" (or similar) looks like it is being used as a butcher's table. It appears as though the fellow has revitalized the empty container by fliping it upside down, sans-lid, and placed it upon the barrel creating a quite serviceable table. This way, no matter how hard he saws, the "table top" won't slide off the barrel head.

Chris,

A couple of ubiquitous hardtack boxes are visible, and the barrels to the left rear are about right for salt pork, but the box we don't see is the bacon box. The reason being the beeves were rations on the hoof at this time. The attractiveness of the federal cattle led to the infamous Beefsteak Raid.

Three details that didn't jump out at first.

1. The pitch of the roofs reflects architecture from "back home," where major snow and ice storms are the norm. I wonder if those shingles are white cedar or white oak?

2. The building to the right appears to be filled with bales of fodder on dunnage. Those large square bales were held together with a fairly large gauge wire, and that wire became bails for dippers.

3. That horse may be a saddled draft horse, or the soldier standing next to him is vertically challenged.

tomarch

11-27-2006, 09:51 PM

I'm thinking that the shingle material is going to be whatever is local. The trees in the rear might be the same kind of pine you see in the framing of buildings of that period. They could have grubbed out the stumps in the area, cut them into "bolts" and then riven them into shingles. The building on the far right is covered with a much larger kind of shake as well. It's possible that there was some good cedar in the area they could have used.

I agree about the roof pitch, those roofs are designed for an upstate N.Y. winter!

Charles Heath

11-27-2006, 11:18 PM

Tom,

Both white oak (the preferred shingle wood for that region) and Atlantic white cedar were available in that area. There would be no need to twist or grub out the stumps, as the shingle portion is the 18''-24" bolt of the trunk as measured from the buttress. I'm sure a froe was in great demand, and the native dogwood made for a good club. Now, there is a fatigue detail we don't see every day, and it doesn't take long for a man to have his fill making shingles.

Both white oak and whtie cedar were excellent for cooperage, and the white cedar was all but made extinct for this reason. The last broad commercial use of which was for ice cream makers. You are correct about the yellow pines in the background, the hearts of which made for excellent flooring that hardens over the centuries. It was also good for framing, and siding.

Considering the beauty of the Poplar Grove Church and their own HQs building, it is evident they had some experienced carpenters and joiners in the mix. All of whom, were, of course, good Union men. ;)

Hagooder02

12-30-2006, 05:15 PM

I found this description of a ration issue in ‘Berry Benson’s Civil War Book’ (edited by Sue Williams Benson, University of Georgia Press, 1962). Benson was a private and served in Maxcy Gregg’s 1st South Carolina Volunteers. This book is a fascinating read and contains many accounts like this that are gems for doing first person.

When we first went into the army, we had scales for weighing, and measures for liquids, but long before this time the commissary of a company was reduced to dividing out to the men in a much more primitive fashion whatever rations were received from the Regimental Commissary.

The meat (usually bacon) was divided carefully into as many ‘piles’ as there were men, a ‘pile’ usually being one little flat piece about the size of a small cake of toilet soap. Having arranged the ‘piles’ on a long, the commissary would get some fair-minded member of the company to review with him their comparative values. Some colloquy as this would then take place:

“Don’t you think this here piece is a little too big?”
“W-e-e-ll, maybe it is. Where’ll I cut it?”
“About there.”
“Now where’ll I put the scrap?”
“Put her over here with this feller; it’s end and about the littlest one you got. But I say, here’s a right smart sized chunk; don’t you think it’s too big?”
“Well I don’t know; she looks pretty big, but if you’ll notice she’s got a dog-gone sight of a bone in her.”
“Yes, she has got a good deal of bone. Well, let her rip”
Commissary now bawls, “Come up men and get your meat!”
The men gather round in an irregular semi-circle of which the meat is the focus, all eyes fastened on the piece ‘with a dog-gone’ sight of bone in her.” Then the commissary says, “Well, who’s a-goin to call?”
Nobody answers. A pause. Then the commissary says, “How in the hell am I a-going to give you your meat if nobody ain’t a-going to call?”
One speaks up: “Well, I’ll call if nobody else won’t.” He walks off about three paces and turns his back.
The commissary touching a ‘pile’ with his knife, asks, “Whose is this?”
“White’s.” White takes it up and retires, balancing it up and down in his hand.
“Whose is this?”
“Mister Peagler’s” And so on until all are taken, and the little crowd disperses.

Flour, rice, meal, sugar, etc. were divided by measure. Knowing by experience that one man’s ration measured about so much in his cup or so many spoonfuls, the commissary call the men up one at a time, giving each his ration as near as he could guess, but taking care not to give too much. This care lest the supply give out before the end was reached, necessarily caused him to give too little, so that there would still be something left. This was called the “over-plus,” or in camp dialect, the ”overplush.”

Then the voice of the commissary was heard in the land. “Come up, men, and get your over-plush.” And when this was divided it, not unfrequently happened that a little was still left. But to share in this second “overplush,” some of the high and mighty, the proud ones of the earth, disdained, replying to the commissary’s summons, “Go to hell with your second overplush.”

Regards,
Bruce Blackmon

Charles Heath

12-31-2006, 10:46 PM

This was called the “over-plus,” or in camp dialect, the ”overplush.”

The word "overplush" turns up in 18th and 19th century wills with a similar meaning in terms of surplus, too.

When we were cutting up meat while making a salt pork ration, Nic Ellis was laughing as I'd hold up pieces of meat with mostly fat or a big percentage of bone, and making remarks like "the fellow who gets this piece is going to say words about the butcher, for sure." Makes a fellow realize what living high on the hog really meant.

Good times.

ephraim_zook

01-01-2007, 09:21 AM

Somewhere in the ration chapter of Kautz's Customs, he says, regarding adding salt to a recipe "a deficiency is more easily remedied than an overplus".

Ron Myzie

ContinentalMorganGuard

01-01-2007, 06:05 PM

I have a 4oz tin can from the period, marked Parrish Bros. MANFR OF Essence of Coffee Baltimore, Md on the recloseable lid. I haven't done any research on the company, but it seems plausable that soldiers could have had individual cans of essence.

billwatson

01-01-2007, 07:59 PM

"I don't know how much a quart of essence weighs (5 lbs.?), but it looks like Mark Mason has a good point. Individuals may not have been issued small containers of essence for personal use."

Interesting observation. This stuff is concentrated, it takes very little to make a cup of coffee. So how did they deal with the gap between what's almost a bulk-issue container and the reality that a tablespoon or two gets you your cup of coffee? What kind of container bridges the gap down to one man's ration for three days or whatever?

Charles Heath

01-01-2007, 08:51 PM

Funny how a post over three years old can still be timely.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8187

Imbedded in the thread linked above is a photo of a can of Hummel's Essence of Coffee from the Bertrand, so that dates it to April 1865, if not shortly before. That label is similar to the one Jarnagin sells. Yes, I know Jarny is not an approved vendor, and their price for a label and a modern tin is d-----d high.

That being said, the general size and shape of the repop tin compares favorably with the old blue or yellow label originals that could be bought at relic shows for a couple of bucks not that long ago. That size being 2 inches in diameter, and 2 15/16th inches in height with the lid and end on. Unlike the originals, the repop is not dipped tin, the ends are press on with rolled edges instead of one being soldered on, and the other being sans-rolled edge. The label is not quite tall enough to form the seal over the lid as seen in the image. Someone out there probably makes a good tin, and different labels, but they aren't well advertised. Thus is life.

One of these small containers will make a darn fine issue kettle of coffee. Play Goldilocks to see if you like it strong (small kettle), weak (large kettle) or if the middle nesting kettle is "just right." Black, hot, slightly bitter, pretty much sums up coffee to me, so you are on your own there.

A couple of thoughts about sources of supply for the tins is to