Cleaning my weapon

[Doug Potter]

I was working on my cartridge box the other day, I cut up some 1 inch squares to place into the envelope to have for cleaning the rifle in the field,
I also keep some writing paper in there as well as Medicated paper well you know what it's for, I carry my rifle tools in a poke sack in my haversack, I was just currious as to what the envelope on the front of the cartridge box was used for, did the soliders just rip up old colth to clean with or did the Quatermaster carry rifle cleaning supplys on his wagon, just how well did a williams cleaner bullet work,
is anyone reproducing a williams cleaner bullet.
Thanks and Merry Christmass to all
Doug Potter Family

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kamerad!

In general...
That is usually referred to as the "implement pouch" because it was the implements.

The previous "tradition" was a carryover from the era of the longrifle and "jaeger" rifle where the gun tools and patches were carried under the "butt trap" or "patchbox."
For military rifles, one of the earliest of such arrangements were the Pattern 1800 Baker rifles and the U.S. M1803 rifle- the M1903's "butt box" being for "the wiper, flint, and rag..."
In addition the U.S. M1841 and M1855 rifles were issued with a spare cone stored in a hole drilled into its implement box.
With the advent of the M1855 Rifle-musket, interchangeable tools were permitted to a degree not previously known. Two of the older traditional tools, the wiper and the ball screw, were simplified, and the screwdriver/cone wrench was made more versatile by adding a third screwdriver blade. Another new tool was the "tumbler and wire punch" changed in 1861 to the "tumbler and band spring punch" along with a "universal wiper" and a tompion. Soldiers taking their guns apart seems to have been cautiously frowned upon, so initially the "punch" tool was issued ot NCO's only, but with the 1861 Ordnance Manual that policy was amended for officers, non-commissioned officers and soldiers to be instructed and practiced on the manner of mounting and dismounting (strictly defining what should and should not be mounted/dismounted- all of which seems to have been accepted slowly...)
So, basically, in the U.S. system, each soldier should have a screwdriver/ cone wrench combo tool and a wiper, each squad of ten a band-spring and tumbler punch, and a spring vise (carried by the NCO).

And the "implement pouch" was intended for the "implements" which did not stop men for carrying them elsewhere... ;-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Clark Badgett]

Doug, you might want to cut you cleaning patches a bit larger. 1" square patches work great for .223 bores but are very inefficient for .58 bores. You might want to start with a 2x2 patch and work up from there.

[Dreamer42]

Also, Doug, what I have found is that beneath the cartridge box tins in the cartridge box is ample space for 15 to 20 cleaning patches. That space of the box is curved, which allows you to use that otherwise empty space for something. It only seems logical to me that it be used for patches, seeing that they add no great amount of weight and the box is, indeed, meant for carrying tools and accouterments for the weapon.
I certainly agree with Mr. Badgett on the size of the patches. I cut mine just under 2x2 for .58 cal.

Jay Reid
9th Texas

[Cary Davisson]

Hello,
Tow! A good wad of Tow should be in your cart. box. Tow was used to clean the rifles. My first cart. box made by R. Neece had a wad of Tow in the pouch. First I thought it was a rats nest. Later I found out what the Tow was used for. You can still buy Tow for about $2.00, enough to last several events. tow: short, coarse pieces of flax.
Cary A. Davisson

[BorderReb]

Tow also has a natural oil that is good for the bore and if you ever shoot a smooth bore with shot (hopefully not at a event) it is correct wadding dateing back to the origins of firearms.


Hello,
Tow! A good wad of Tow should be in your cart. box. Tow was used to clean the rifles. My first cart. made by R. Neece had a wad of Tow in the pouch. First I thought it was a rats nest. Later I found out what the Tow was used for. You can still buy Tow for about $2.00, enough to last several events. tow: short, coarse pieces of flax.
Cary A. Davisson

[hardtack61]

pards,

This Rifle Cleaning subject has been a main topic of my talking with friends and have had not much help. Ive been trying to progress as much as i can. I have been taking modern cleaning gear<lube and stuff>!Yuck!, along with my ramrod attachments. What would be a authentic way to go about taking stuff to reenactments and stuff for being able to have my rifle pass inspection. Anything would help, thanks

[3rdARboy]

pards,

This Rifle Cleaning subject has been a main topic of my talking with friends and have had not much help. Ive been trying to progress as much as i can. I have been taking modern cleaning gear<lube and stuff>!Yuck!, along with my ramrod attachments. What would be a authentic way to go about taking stuff to reenactments and stuff for being able to have my rifle pass inspection. Anything would help, thanks

All I do to clean my rifle is heat up some water, pour it down the barrel, slosh it around a few times. Do that several times then take the nipple off and pour water down it a couple times letting it run out the other end. I bring some torn up bandanas(period looking),stick them through the ramrod and run'em down it until its dry. I then dry the place where the nipple goes. I clear the nipple with a period nipple pick. That'll get it as clean as it'll get and it takes about 10-15 minute.

Lane Reeder
3rd AR, Texas Brigade

[dusty27]

Waylon,

My cleaning kit in the field consists of some cleaning patches, a worm, and a nipple wrench. In the field, I leave the last cap on the nipple, I pour hot water down the barrel, swish it back and forth and pour out the water. I then use the ramrod and worm to push and pull several cleaning patches down the barrel. I remove the nipple and clean it out with a pick and dry everything before I replace the nipple.

Haven't had a misfire in 9 years of doing this.

At home, I clean more completely.

[BrianHicks]

Other than the ramrod which is a part of your rifle. All you really need is a worm to attach to the ram rod, and some old shirting material cut into patches, and perhaps some grease from bacon or other meat (don't use salt pork though!) along with the ash from the fire pit, and you have all you need to clean your weapon and oil down the metal to protect against rust on those damp nights when the weapon is left in the stack. A period rifle tool is useful in removing the cone (aka nipple).

[hardtack61]

Thanks

I really thank you for the quick reply of my question! I like asking before doing!

[Will Eichler]

Waylon,

Craig Barry just wrote an excellent article on weapon maintainance and cleaning in this Winter 2004 issue of "The Watchdog." I'd recommend picking one up if you don't subscribe. He has his step by step idea of cleaning, both for in the field and after getting home.

http://www.watchdogreview.com

Good luck.

Will

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kameraden!

Or, for something completely different.... ;-)

"From Rules for the Management and Cleaning of the Rifle Musket, Model 1861, for the Use of Soldiers (applies to the Springfield Models 1855, 1861, and 1863, and more generally to the Enfield Models 1853 and 1858), under "Rules for Cleaning":

It is not essential for the musket to be dismounted {disassembled} every time that it is cleaned; for, after firing it in fine weather, or when there has been no chance for the wet to get between the barrel and the stock, it can be perfectly cleaned in the following manner.

Put a piece of rag or soft leather on the top of the cone, and let the hammer down upon it; pour a gill of water into the muzzle carefully, so that it does not run down the outside; put a plug of wood into the muzzle, and shake the gun up and down, changing the water repeatedly until it comes out clear. When clear, withdraw the leather, and stand the musket on the muzzle for a few moments; then wipe out the barrel (as given in the second rule for cleaning {see below}), and also wipe the exterior of the lock and the outside of the barrel around the cone and cone-seat first with a damp rag, and then with a dry one, and lastly with a rag that has been slightly oiled. In this way, all the dirt due to the firing may be removed without taking out a screw.

2nd. Screw the wiper on to the end of the ramrod, and put a piece of dry cloth, or tow, round it, sufficient to keep it from chafing the grooves of the barrel; wipe the barrel quite dry, changing or drying the cloth two or three times.

3d. Put no oil into the vent, as it will clog the passage, and cause the first primer to miss fire; but, with a slightly oiled rag on the wiper, rub the bore of the barrel,... and immediately insert the tompion into the muzzle."

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Vuhginyuh]

This was sent to me a while ago from the National Firearms Muesum.
It is the answer to a similar inquiry and I think it is interesting enough to post.


Thank you for your inquiry to the National Firearms Museum.

Little is documented on Civil War arms cleaning/maintenance supplies. British imported arms like the Enfield were shipped with oil containers (and other oil containers were in private's and sergeant's tools). Relic hunters have found considerable numbers of the small oil containers in both Federal and Confederate camps in Virginia - so the troops had them available.

Cleaning consisted primarily of hot water and soap. Sand was used as a rust removal agent and to make barrels "bright." Sutlers offered other patent items for maintaining uniform brass items that could have been applied to brass buttplates. With daily inspection in camp/garrison, many soldiers would have had to keep up with their issue arms on a regular basis.

Sincerely,

Museum Staff

[Texian]

RE: "From Rules for the Management and Cleaning of the Rifle Musket, Model 1861, for the Use of Soldiers (applies to the Springfield Models 1855, 1861, and 1863, and more generally to the Enfield Models 1853 and 1858), under "Rules for Cleaning":

Curt,
Can you direct me to where I can find a complete reprint of this text?
Thanks,
---Ed

[DukeRPSC]

Rules for the Management and Cleaning of the Rifle Musket, Model 1863

Can you direct me to where I can find a complete reprint of this text?
Item BK2235 $10.00 Dixie Gun Works

[Jimmayo]

Saw in the beginning of this thread where the poster was putting patches through the hole in his ramrod to dry his barrel. Must have been an enfield. A word of caution. I have seen several instances when using the precut patches which are somewhat thick, and putting them through the hole in the tulip, the ramrod head becomes stuck in the barrel due to the dryness and thickness of the patch. The end result is usually breaking the head of the ramrod off in the barrel while trying to muscle the ramrod out. I would advise against drying the barrel in this manner. Obtain and use the worm. I use a .50 cal worm if drying since it leaves more room in the barrel between the worm diameter and the ID of the barrel.

Of course if you do get it stuck when using the hole in the ramrod, try adding some water to the barrel and inserting the ramrod. The water will lubricate the patch enough to pull it free and then use the worm next time.

[Texian]

Duke,
Thanks for the info.
---Ed

[Vuhginyuh]

More words of caution, animal fats are not to be used on ferrous metals!. Period.

...or leather or wood or anything you value and want to last.

It (cured or rendered animal fat) is absoluty the worst enemy of any possession you have...other than a biscuit.

There is a line of thought in some British Conservation circles that mink oil used in combination with certain crystaline waxes can add life and time to historic leather.

[John E. Tobey]

Waylon,

In addition to the fine advice already submitted...

There are numerous period references regarding the soldiers' desire for gun oil; the two most commonly used (sent from home or purchased from the sutler) were mineral oil aka "armor oil" and "sweet" or olive oil. Avoid modern gun oils...stuff like Hoppe's #9 or Marvel Miracle Oil have unmistakably strong and modern odors.

To burnish the metal parts of their weapons, soldiers also needed some sort of abrasive. Sutlers carried large quantities of emory paper, but soldiers also used rotten stone, powdered brick, or even dirt or fine sand. The powdered materials were applied (sometimes mixed with oil or maybe even spit) and rubbed against the metal with rags, corncobs, or their gun sling.
A refinement of this technique involved making a "buff stick". According to Charles Bowen of the 12th US, a buff stick consisted of a strip of buckskin or calfskin about 2 inches wide and 14 inches long. This was probably attached to a piece of lath in the manner of a razor strop and used to burnish the iron parts until as Sgt Bowen said, "...you can see your face in the lock plate, barrel, & in fact all the iron in sight."
I'm not sure I can picture a soldier toting a buff stick on campaign, so it's probably more of a garrison gizmo for established camps.

John Tobey

[JimConley]

Mr. Stillwagon,
I noticed you posted something about the proper implements for field care of a rifle. Since you are not available through messaging, this post is for you. I was curious, and this is also available to anyone as well, what items did soldiers carry to keep their rifle spic and span? It has always been a priority of mine to keep my weapon clean as part of first person, so to speak. Their rifle may have been the difference between life and death, the way I see it, and they were required, if not, personally prompted, to care for those weapons! I was put over the edge on the subject after reading Sam Watkins when he said, "Every soldier had to have his gun rubbed as bright as a new silver dollar."

[hardeesboy]

Sir,

This subject has been discussed previously. Typing "Rifle Cleaning" into the search feature of this forum brought up this discussion, Rifle Cleaning (http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1949&page=1&pp=10&highlight=cleaning+musket)

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Or here;

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3438


Here is another useful link;
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3389

[Yellowhammer]

I have nothing to add to the information contained in those links.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

I have recently bought a used Enfield Rifle Musket. In wanting to make it fit with my impression a few steps are necessary to take. The first thing I would like to do is completely break it down to give it a good cleaning. The barrel has been taken off, but I cannot figure out how to remove the lock plate (safely and without damaging the rifle). HELP???? After I do this I plan to put a more natural finish on the rifle, by means of several of the other threads available. And of course as time and money permit, the best defarb jobs money can buy.

Thanks,

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

[K Bartsch]

I have recently bought a used Enfield Rifle Musket. In wanting to make it fit with my impression a few steps are necessary to take. The first thing I would like to do is completely break it down to give it a good cleaning. The barrel has been taken off, but I cannot figure out how to remove the lock plate (safely and without damaging the rifle). HELP???? After I do this I plan to put a more natural finish on the rifle, by means of several of the other threads available. And of course as time and money permit, the best defarb jobs money can buy.

Thanks,

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04


Here's what works for me. 1) With the barrel still on (because it provides a bit of support to the relatively thinned out area of the stock where the lock is and thus can help prevent the stock from cracking accidentally) and 2) with the hammmer at half-cock, 3) partially withdraw (unscrew) the lock screws. 4) Lightly tap them with something. Tap on the forward one, then tap on the rear one. Alternating. 5) Withdraw the screws a little further, repeat tapping. Pretty soon, the lock plate will be almost clear of the stock. 6) When you're confident you can then gently wiggle it free, remove the two lock screws entirely and 7) then grasp the hammer and gently remove the entire lock assembly. Don't take the lock down any further unless you know how to reassemble it. 8) A very light application of oil to the moving parts is fine. Less is more. 9) Then, withdraw the rammer, 10) remove the barrel bands, and lastly 11) withdraw the tang screw and 12) carefully dismount the barrel.

When you're finished with the barrel, 13) re-install it, 14) replace the barrel bands and 15) run the tang screw back in. Don't overtighten. 16) You can re-seat the rammer now too. Now the lock goes back on. Still at half-cock of course. 17) When re-installing the lock assembly, be careful to press it EVENLY back into its mortised-out area applying pressure with your fingers over both lockplate screwholes. 18) A small drop of oil on the threads of each lockplate screw is a good idea too. 19) Insert the lockplate screws and finger tighten, finishing with a screwdriver. Don't over-tighten them, they really shouldn't protrude at all beyond the face of the lockplate. Hope that helps.

Cordially,

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Thanks,

Actually that really helps alot. Consider my questions answered.

Paul B. Boulden Jr.

RAH VA MIL '04

[JustRob]

Several vendors carry a reprint of "Rules for the Management and cleaning of the Rifle Musket, Model 1863".

This small manual will teach you how to clean and maintain every aspect of your musket, whether it's a '42 Springfield, '61 Springfield, or Enfield.

It's one of the best investments I've made, and cheap, too.

[john duffer]

Paul

Please note that the forward lockplate screw has a notch to clear the ramrod, said notch being marked with a dot on the screwhead. I didn't notice this at first and couldn't figure why my rammer wouldn't fit anymore, but then I'm not very bright.

[billmatt04]

Hello all,
I am sure that this has been asked before, and I hope that I am not raked over the coals for asking this, but what it the proper way to clean the rust from the metal parts of the musket while on campaign? I know about using oil or fat to prevent rust from forming, and using campfire ash and water for scouring the metal if there is rust, but how do you go about doing this? Soak a rag in it? Been experimenting at home with this stuff and I want to make sure I do this right before I head out into the field again this season. I appreciate all of the help I've received on my other questions and would appreciate any and all comments on this one.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady
Pvt. 104th Illinois Vol. Inf.

[Vuhginyuh]

Matthew,
We have a good Search function above. Here are two threads found there;

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1949&highlight=field+cleaning

or...

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3438&page=1&highlight=field+cleaning

[privstull]

One of the ways I keep my musket rust free, is too soak a small rag with gun oil and keep it in my haversack with the rest of my gun cleaning supplies. Whenever you go to bed or the environment becomes more moist, just wipe down your musket with it and it will help prevent rust. If you go get rust, then one of the best ways I found was to use ash from the fire to help remove it. Hope this helps some!

[billmatt04]

Thanks a lot, gents. I had used the search tool before, but I obviously used the wrong keywords. All of you and these threads have been a big help.

Sincerely,
Matthew Cassady

[amazingkenneth]

Hello,
I to have used a cloth with oil on the lock plate. Also signs of rust pop out in which time ash from your fire with a touch or water will take care of that.

Your Servant,
K.J. Reihl

[TeamsterPhil]

[QUOTE=privstull]soak a small rag with gun oil and keep it in my haversack with the rest of my gun cleaning supplies. [QUOTE]

Yuck. My food tastes bad enough as it is. You might be better served keeping sich things in your knapsack or the implement pouch on your cartridge box.

Phil Campbell

[Moonshine]

<strike>Think of carrying an old - used toothbrush too. I use this around the nipple and in the tight spots of the hammer on my Belgian conversion. This "tool" also comes in handy when I convert this musket to flint too.

Just be sure to keep the cleaning kit and tolietry kit in a separate bag you know by feel, otherwise fumbling for it in the dark.... you get the idea.</strike>

Jim Ross

Hallo Herr Jim! Just a reminder, please... While your tip is very useful and functional for "at home" workbench or garage cleaning, please keep in mind that is the AC Forum- a website for the Authentic Civil War Living Historian. Unless you are making a case, and providing documentation for the PEC use by CW soldiers having and using their toothbrushes- this can cross the line to "farbism" and/or reenactorism" not encouraged by this Forum. Thanks. Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Jake Marley]

At the Gettysburg NMP Visitors Center, there's a small tin can on display labeled as a gun oil container. It resembles a miniature metal milk jug. The Village Tinsmith has similar items for about 4 dollars.

Nic Ellis

[poncho]

Greetings all,
As I am writing this, I 'm presently cleaning my musket. I just got back from an event after lending it to someone and it's a disaster on the outside. This is my tenth season and I have never had a problem cleaning my rifle. However, I'm always curious about other people's methods for cleaning their weapon, especially when it comes to the finish on the metal. No matter how hard I scrub, scour or buff it never comes out very bright, it's always kinda dull. Many of my pards have given me their advice over the years, but it never really makes a difference. So without dragging this out anymore: What's your favorite method of cleaning your rifle when not in the field? Tips, tricks?
Thanks,

Pierre, please take Bernard's advice and use the search function. - Mike Chapman

[flattop32355]

You're probably gonna get some responses saying this has been covered "X" number of times in the past and you should use the search function. While that isn't a bad place to point you;

I use hot water down the barrel, with a piece of leather over the cone, until it comes out clear. Then one or two dry patches (make sure they don't stick on the way down), followed by patches with either olive (sweet) oil or Ballistol, then more dry til the patches come out clean. I remove the barrel and hardware and oil the stock, then use a fine metal brush to get off any heavy rust, then oil the metal parts and re-assemble. For the cone, I drop it in heated peroxide, then dry, lightly oil and reseat.

I believe I've seen others refer to using 0000 steel wool to remove rust from the barrel (might want to check that search function on that one, though).

[missouri partisan]

I recently purchased a used Euroarms 1841 Mississippi Rifle. I don't reckon that I really needed it, but the price was good, and I figured that it might be useful at a demo or as a skirmisher's gun. I have had no problems with it, and it's a great shooter, but there is a problem with removing the nipple for cleaning....Basically, it wont unscrew past a couple of threads. I would like to totally remove it, but the '41 tool that was built for it can't do the job, and I can't get a regular musket wrench to grip it due to the snail drum. I don't want to damage the gun, so I was wondering if anyone had any ideas on removing this rather obstinate nipple.
All advice is welcome!
Keith Bragg

[Maine Volunteer]

Shouldn't you consult with the Regimental Surgeon on this?......

[Jimmayo]

Try a 1/4 inch socket sized to accept a allen wrench (3/8 is good). Put the drive end over the cone and use the allen wrench inserted in the socket to remove the cone.

[Michael McComas]

Your local gun shop should carry a nifty "T-Tool" type nipple wrench. You can get them for square or parallel-sided cones. They fit over the top, so they clear the bolster, and they give you excellent torque to pull even the stickiest cones out. You could also try cranking it out as far as it will go and squirting some Hoppes BP solvent in through the hole. Sounds like you may be binding up on some fouling near the bottom of the threads.

[missouri partisan]

Thank you all for your help, as to the Regimental Surgeon, nothing on this earth would frighten me more!

Regards to all,
Keith Bragg

[26th NC]

Gents,

After several rty's and a couple hundred dollars I have just aboput given up on fixing a Springfield I bought off the forums @ 2 years ago. here's the problem, and any suggestions on how to fix it, (besides burning the stock for a campfire, and the barrel for a axle on a go cart) would be greatly appreciated.

Once I got the musket I took it apart for inspection (broke the first rule of inspecting it before purchase). Lo and behold, someone had tried to glass bed the gun!! Poor job too. The interior of the stock was a mess. I found the rammer was cut down about 8 inches too when I pulled it.

Well, with the stock a complete mess, I got Lodgewood to get me a new one, new bands, springs and a rammer. Got it home, used Curt-Heinrich's formula for the staining of the stock, hand rubbed the oil etc. Looked great. Problem is, the rammer is so tight that the thing will only go in about 10 inches. the ramrod channel seems to be the problem, and the bands are hanging up the rammer also, yet Lodgewood claims the stock and bands are correct. I am not good enough a craftsman to want and rechannel that thing myself and ruin an expensive stock. And i am not slinging anything at lodgewood as i have had numerous successful dealings with them for several years. I am about to chalk this one up to being a Jonah and buy a new gun. Suggestions?

Layton Pennington

[rick atwood]

Layton,

Did you buy the ramrod from Lodgewood? If you did it should fit. If not, an easy enough fix would be to gently sand the channel in the points that stick. Start with 150 grit and then finish with 220. You can sand with a dowel to keep it as precise as possible. It may just be the first point that is causing all the problem.

The problem probably stems from swelling due to staining.

Hope this helps,

Rick Atwood

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

It can be hard to impossible to diagnose the patient without seeing him..

But let me two real dumb questions first off, please.

Which model/type "Springfiled" is it?" Meaning, by any chance, are you using a M1863 ramrod on a M1861?

And Lodgewood's parts? Are they repro-original parts for work on originals or custom-builts, or are they replacement repro parts for repro Italian/Japanese Springfields?

Curt

[flattop32355]

Have you tried just loosening the barrel band screws a bit, to see if the rammer goes down easier?

[Silas]

Knowing the model might help. Before someone jumps on Bernie and his answer about loosening the screws, here's a photo of a '63 with the screws on the upper band:

http://www.relicman.com/images/W0481H.jpg

I suspect the Springfield at issue here is an ever so common '61. Had it been a '42, '63 or a Colt, the original poster would likely have mentioned it.

[26th NC]

Thanks for all of the tips. I take all reasonable advice, so nobody here on my end is is juming on or criticizing anyone. I thought of the dowel and sandpaer, and even of taking it back to Lodgewood. But did not want to spend more money, and wanted to see other options before proceeding. So to answer questions; it is a Lodgewwod repro for an Armisport 1861 Springfield. Tried loosening the screws, no help. I will get a doweling and carefully sand the channel first. Thank you for all the advice. Curt, understand seeing the patient, trying to treat the sick over a phone is like trying to command a military unit by cell phone, can't be done. Must be seen, not heard. Again, thanks to everyone.

Layton Pennington

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Thanks!

You can also pick up a rat tail file from the hardware store slightly "larger" than either the ramrod or the current existing ranrod channel.
You can bend the file's tang up at 90 degrees with a propane torch to make a more effective tool otherwise the file can only be used at a sharp angle and then only the very tip will cut wood. With a bent tang, the file can "lay" in the ramrod channel and be worked straight forward and back, up and down, the channel.

If the problem is, or also is, the ramrod "hole" in the sotck, the rat tail file tool can be used to enlarge it (but it is harder to accomplish). That usually may require a ramrod drill to bore it out. They are a drill bit brazed to a steel rod. These can be purchased at some blackpowder shops, or one can weld/braze up if you have the tools. They can be tricky to use to keep the bit from walking sideways and emerging somewhere on the stock.
(IMHO, it is best to let someome skilled/practiced do it, or go really slow and back the drill in-and-out every inch or so going in.

I have some stories regardign lads who did their own work.
1. One tried to enlarge the ramrod hole in an M1841 repro with a wood screw. (Split the stock)
2. Two tried drilling it out on Springfields, and had the bit come out on the side and bottom of the stock.
3. And when I was just starting out, I had no tools or knowledge of how to use them, and heated a coat hanger red hot with a propane torch to burn the hole larger. Surprisingly, it worked, but my apartment stunk like woodsmoke for weeks and the gun always smelled like charcoal..

Curt

[Gary of CA]

Curt gives good advice.

You may want to drill out the ramrod hole in the stock. As Curt said, you attached the drill bit onto a longer rod. Cut a small piece of wood and drill it through with the same diameter drill. Cut it in such that one part can be placed slightly (say 1") before the entry hole. This will help keep the drill rod aligned.

Line up the drill with the stock and mark off on the rod (near the muzzle) the depth you want to go. It's almost the same procedure to check whether a muzzle loading gun is loaded.

Now, when you drill, go in only 1/2" and then pull it back. Allow the chips to come out. Then reinsert and go another 1/2" before pulling back out. Repeat until you get to your mark. The reason why you only go 1/2" is to allow those chips to clear out. The chips can cause a drill bit to drift off to an angle.

If you're unwilling to do it yourself, any competent flintlock builder can do it for you. Don't scrap the stock.

For those interested in learning more, the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association offers 9 day classes in May/June at Bowling Green, Kentucky on how to build flintlocks. Conner Prairie (Fishers, Indiana) also holds classes but they're only 5 days long.

[Third Mainer]

Just give it to me....I'll even pay postage:wink_smil :wink_smil
Mike Pearson

[brown]

Recently purchased an 1816 reproduction, and before I fire it, I need to know how to clean it. In particular, what is different from cleaning a percussion lock piece? Obviously the vent cannot be closed in the same way (that has been my first observation). Thought I'd see what you expierenced flintlock owners have to say.
Thanks,
Lindsey Brown

[rick atwood]

Lindsey,

I clean my flintlocks much in the same manner as my CW era weapons. In the field I simply plug the vent with a round toothpick and run hot water down the barrel until the water comes out clear. I follow up with dry patches until dry and then run a lightly oiled patch down the barrel. I finish by cleaning the vent and lightly reoiling the outside of the barrel/lock.

At home after an event, I brush the barrel with a caliber appropriate brush. Then I plug the vent with a round toothpick and add about 4-5 ounces of hot water, placing a tompion in the muzzle. After aggitating the barrel, I remove the tompion and pour the water out. I repeat this until the water comes out clear. After this I run a patch saturated with Knights e-z clean or Thompsons # 13 bore cleaner. I repeat this until the patches are clean. I then repeat the hot water treatment. After that I run dry patches down the barrel until dry. Next, I work on cleaning the vent as well as the lock and frizzen. I finish by running a patch of bore butter down the barrel as well as lightly re-oiling all iron/steel surfaces.

Be careful when you pour the water down the barrel so as not to get any on the stock or the underside of the barrel. Also, keep oil off of your flint and make sure your frizzen and pan are completely dry of oil when you're finished.

All of this is a modern method of cleaning and is done without dismounting the barrel from the stock. All of my barrels are pinned. That all being said, there are a host of flintlock enthusiasts on this board that can provide period correct cleaning methods.

Hope this helps,

Rick Atwood

[Tom Ezell]

Recently purchased an 1816 reproduction, and before I fire it, I need to know how to clean it. In particular, what is different from cleaning a percussion lock piece? Obviously the vent cannot be closed in the same way (that has been my first observation). Thought I'd see what you expierenced flintlock owners have to say.
Thanks,
Lindsey Brown

I've been packing a Model 1816/1822 for about the past six years as part of my early-war Confederate impression, and more recently in regressing to the War with Mexico. I've campaigned with it at Wilson's Creek, and a lot of smaller events between now and then, as well as driving some of the local SCV guys nuts by showing up at the odd memorial service with a pretty good MSG impression and my rocklock.

There's not a lot of difference in maintaining your flintlock than from a perscussion weapon, other than cleaning and maintaining the lock itself. And just think, you don't have to worry about the availability of percussion caps any more ;-) You should have your ramrod, a musket wrench/screwdriver, a proper .69 caliber wiper, vent pick and pan brush, and you're good to go. It's also a really good idea to keep a little piece of rag in a handy place while you're in action, so as to be able to frequently wipe down your frizzen and pan. The flash from the powder pan makes the Model 1816 a lot "dirtier" weapon to work with, so you do need to pay a lot more attention to keeping your frizzen clean as well as the striking edge of your flint.

Field cleaning of the weapon isn't much different than for your Enfield. A small twig can be used as a temporary plug for the vent, while you clean the core with hot water and swab the fouling out with your ramrod & wiper. Once the bore is clean, use a damp cloth to clean the powder fouling off the lockplate, pan, cock, and the area around the breech. Once cleaned and dry, I apply a light coating of Bore Butter (TM) to the exposed metal parts to prevent rust, or you can use the lubricant of your choice. Like any other bright-finished weapon, you need to be aggressive about preventing rust, and the heavier exterior fouling from the flintlock tends to make these weapons a little more prone to rusting if you don't stay on top of things or better yet, ahead of them.

Some key lessons learned over the years:

1) Keep your powder (cartridges) and your firelock dry... “Secure arms” and a tompion works under moderate conditions, but beware of when the wooden tompion swells and gets stuck in the bore and if it rains long enough, there will be a breakthrough point between the water and your oilcloth.

2) The idea of loading and priming, and then marching/double-quicking all over the place bears a certain fascination when you realize that there isn’t much holding that half-cocked flint off your frizzen and the powder thereunder. At first opportunity I fabricated myself a frizzen stall and got industrious about its use.

3) Spare flints are a must... you can only “flick your Bic” so many times before you’re out of sparks. It is always a good idea to fit a fresh flint before you go into a battle, lest you find yourself in a bad situation with a dull flint that won’t spark. Accounts of the Missouri State Guard and the Arkansas troops on the eve of battle at Wilson’s Creek mention their fitting fresh flints to their weapons and checking the spark.

I bought a pack of a dozen of DGW’s “English musket flints” when I ordered my M1816 (flint not included, btw, when you order one of these). Other good accessories to buy at the same time are the little vent pick and pan whisk that you can run through your button hole so as to have it there when you need it (W.K. Osman is an excellent source for this), and a small leather wallet for carrying spare flints. Keep your musket tool at hand as well.

4) I installed and used a flash guard at Wilson’s Creek out of respect for the event rules, but didn’t notice a lot of difference with it except that it made it a lot more difficult to clean around the pan and frizzen spring. I’ve since removed it and put it back in the possibles box, since the primary use of my ’16 is living histories... at least until the next Pea Ridge, Shiloh or Fort Donelson comes along. I am not real fond of flashguards, both from the authenticity standpoint but mostly from the fact that it makes it a lot harder to clean around the pan and frizzen. Flintlocks are a lot messier than percussion guns when it comes to powder residue all over everything, and you need to be scrupulous about your cleaning in order to keep it functioning. I do carry the guard in my pocket though, in case the eventmeisters require their use.

5.) Carry a piece of rag in a handy place, and be sure to wipe off the edge of your flint and your frizzen frequently, at least after every three or four shots. Enough gunk can build up there in even a minor skirmish to make it hard to get a reliable spark. Cleanliness of your firelock is next to godliness, in my small opinion.

Likewise, the rag is useful to wipe off unwanted moisture, whether it be dew, mist, or sweat... Moisture dampens the powder in your pan, and causes misfires as well as excessive residue in the pan and on the frizzen and other lock parts.

Get out and practice with your flinter... a lot. Get intimate with General Scott’s drill manual, practice rolling some good .69 cartridges, and using them. Most of the cold chills that reenacting officers get about flintlocks appearing in the ranks from time to time arise from ignorance... after all there’s a whole hobby of Revolutionary War reenacting out there that uses nothing but flintlocks, and their safety record appears to be as good if not a lot better than ours.

Scott’s drill (“Load in Twelve Times”) calls for priming from the cartridge. This is one of the reasons that the powder charge for the old pumpkin slingers was 110 grains, and powder tended to be something like today’s FFFg. It works pretty well once you’ve practiced a bit, although if you’re in a mixed company with percussion weapons it looks odd when you cast about and prime first, then bring the weapon to the “Load” position while the percussion guys are doing exactly the opposite. This uniformity business may be why some folks prefer to prime from a small flask. Most safety officers look at the priming flask to be the same sort of potential grenade in the same manner as a powder horn, so I stick with Gen’l Scott’s book, with no more than a cartridge’s worth of powder out of the box or the jacket pocket at any one time.

To load the thing, you tear the cartridge open with your teeth and “dust” the priming pan with the cartridge, shaking a few grains of powder into it. Snap the frizzen (the striker plate) shut on the pan, and swing the musket down in front of you to the “Load” position. Turn the cartridge open end down and pour the powder into the barrel. Then, turn the cartridge tube open end up or leave it the way it is (either direction works) and drop it down the barrel. The cartridge paper acts as your “patch”. There is no separate patch in military firing. The ball is significantly undersized so as to facilitate loading in a fouled barrel if necessary, so the cartridge paper literally keeps the ball from rolling back down the barrel. Tamp the charge with the rammer and you’re ready to go. Follow the manual exactly and you are practicing good firearms safety.

The Flintlock musket drill, LOAD IN 12 TIMES goes like this (see Scott’s “Infantry Tactics”, 1835, paras 189-207):
1. Load
2. Open Pan
3. Handle Cartridge
4. Tear Cartridge
5. Prime
6. Shut Pan
7. Cast About
8. Charge Cartridge
9. Draw Rammer
10. Ram Cartridge
11. Return Rammer
12. Shoulder Arms

Note that the Drill Manual has you doing the OPPOSITE of what most live-fire muzzleloading clubs practice, e.g. priming the pan before you charge the bore. Again, this is because the military weapons loaded from paper cartridges, and priming flasks weren't issued with the weapons.

As for blanks for my M1816 flinter, I usually load 85 or 90 grains of FFFg. About 5 to 10 grains of that goes in the pan, the rest down the bore.

[BobbyHughes]

Echo everything said above, and that in high humidity, you may want to wipe out the pan occasionaly. I had a Pedersoli 2nd Ptn Brown Bess, and would sometimes get moisture in the pan, on a dry day. I also second the round toothpick in the vent. It may not apply here, but a trick me and my Trekking buddies used when I was doing colonial in Alaska (dont ask:rolleyes: ) was placing a grouse tailquill in the touchhole of a loaded and primed flinter when in camp. This worked as a block and as a signal that the weapon was loaded. This was on weekend jonts in the woods, not public demos, and yes, the weapons were loaded live, both as game getters and in the case of the big bores (.62 and up) as the bear deterant.

[Jeff Prechtel]

Get yourself a bag of tow, for use as a cleaning material,
that works the best, as well as using a brush or a worm.

I've found that not pouring water down the barrel and
just using some wet tow, and cleanin out the barrel
works better, that way you don't have to worry about
water seeping down underneath the barrel.

Also make sure to take off the lock and give the inside
of the lock a thorough cleaning also, otherwise you get
powder and rust build up over time, this will eventually
lead to lock malfunction. If you haven't had one before,
flintlocks are a lot of fun, as you'll find out!

Best regards,
Jeff P

[BobbyHughes]

If you haven't had one before,
flintlocks are a lot of fun, as you'll find out!

I gotta second that one! First time I fired a buddy's Jaeger, I caught "rock-lock" fever... had to sell em, but I miss that ol Brown Bess and my .50 Tennessee rifle.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Having done both for many years, I have come to find that the major difference between cleaning a caplock and a flintlock is- that the caplock squirts up, and the flintlock squirts sideways.
;)

Curt

[brown]

Thank to everyone for some great information. As for Curt, I think you hit on my primary concern with a 3lb hammer.

[Kace]

4) I installed and used a flash guard at Wilson’s Creek out of respect for the event rules, but didn’t notice a lot of difference with it except that it made it a lot more difficult to clean around the pan and frizzen spring. I’ve since removed it and put it back in the possibles box, since the primary use of my ’16 is living histories... at least until the next Pea Ridge, Shiloh or Fort Donelson comes along. I am not real fond of flashguards, both from the authenticity standpoint but mostly from the fact that it makes it a lot harder to clean around the pan and frizzen. Flintlocks are a lot messier than percussion guns when it comes to powder residue all over everything, and you need to be scrupulous about your cleaning in order to keep it functioning. I do carry the guard in my pocket though, in case the eventmeisters require their use.

As for blanks for my M1816 flinter, I usually load 85 or 90 grains of FFFg. About 5 to 10 grains of that goes in the pan, the rest down the bore.

I carried my Bess for a lot of years doing F&I. I would like to reiterate Tom's #4. While the Flash Guard is not period having one installed when firing in ranks will keep your pards a lot happier and safer. Not having a flash guard may not be as dangerous as a using a 6-wing cap, but old sparky throws quite a bit of burned powder around.

You may want to load your cartridges a bit heavier at first till you get a feel for how much you really need to poor into the pan for priming.

If you have been firing a while and are not getting good spark, you can also re-knap your flint with a musket tool as a quick field fix. After owning and firing for a number of years and notice a reduction in spark, think about having the frizzen rehardend by a blacksmith.

Kace

[teddy99]

Hi,
I was wondering if you guys could help me. My euroarms Enfield is miss fireing when I go from full cocked hamme ready to fire to back to half cock safe posistion any anwers of suguestions. Please I have a Safety Issue.
Thanks Ted Hubbard,

[Johan Steele]

Remove the lock and send it to Lodgewood. If your half cock is slipping it is something they can fix for a nominal fee. THen pick up a copy of Craig Barry's excellent, The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy-Lock, Stock and Barrel. Instructions for proper cleaning and maint are inside and it is well worth the money for all of the other good info.

Hi,
I was wondering if you guys could help me. My euroarms Enfield is miss fireing when I go from full cocked hamme ready to fire to back to half cock safe posistion any anwers of suguestions. Please I have a Safety Issue.
Thanks Ted Hubbard,

[high_private78]

In my past experiences, when I had the same problem with ANY of my Euroarms firearms, it was that the tumbler was worn down. After speaking with my gunsmith, he noted that the steel used for the tumbler(s) was not hardened correctely and that after normal repetitive use it just simply wore down. Hope this helps.

Jason Reasor

[Hairy Nation Boys]

I had the same problem. Sent my to Lodgewood and they said exactly what Jason stated. They are great to work with and they do excellent work.

[DJCasey]

I had the same problem twice that turned out to be two different problems. The first time, Lodgewood was fortunately at the event as I knew nothing about locks. They just took the lock out and tightened all the screws and it worked fine. If you have tried this already, the second time it happend, it was a bad sear spring. It had gotten week and was not holding properly. It would still hold, but any pressure on the hammer, such as going to shoulder arms, would set it off. When I figured out it was the sear spring, it snapped in two as soon as I took it out. The metal was obviously weak. I ordered a new one from Lodgewood (it was MAYBE 3 bucks) and fixed it myself, and it has been cocking safely and tight for many years now. I am almost glad this happened as I now understand how my lock works. If you are not sure what part is which, do a Google search for Enfield lock parts. That is what I did and was able to find some helpful resources.

[Rob]

There are several possible problems; it could be any, or all, of them.

1. Tumbler/sear screws not tensioned correctly. (Too tight, and the hammer catches in the half-cock notch when firing. Too lose, and the piece will fire from the half-cock position.)

2. Sear spring too weak.

3. Sear nose and/or half-cock notch worn.

4. Tumbler binding on the wood - this is more common than you would think. (The hammer will catch in the half-cock notch when firing, or, in some cases, will not have enough torque to fire the cap, because the wood acts as a brake to slow it down.)

[65thgainf]

On rifles that are not blued. Just how bright should the hardware be ? Are they delivered too bright from the manufacturer ? I saw a few this w/e that had the markings removed and had a dull look (almost like a silver paint appearance) vs the polished, as delievered appearance. What is the correct sheen for a model 1842 Springfield ?

[Charles Heath]

. What is the correct sheen for a model 1842 Springfield ?

The phrase "national armory bright" does come to mind. Try following the US Army maintenance instructions (linked to this forum) using period materials and see how it turns out. You'll be surprised at what level of shine a good hand finish can have.

[Craig L Barry]

David K. Fox writes in the new April 2007 Camp Chase Gazette (p. 54) of finding twenty Springfield Armory produced US 1861s untouched in a crate in New York City. He describes the finish as polished a "dull national armory bright" and having not a speck of corrosion. "Replicas" he writes, "never quite get it right".

My understanding has always been that "armory bright" was not a chrome-like finish. The reproductions are probably over polished. The better question is, how was the finish on the metal parts maintained by soldiers in the field? Period accounts offer some clues.

Sam Watkins of the 1st TN makes mention in "Co Aytch" of his comrade's Enfield that was named Florence Fleming. Pvt Watkins says he ends up with this particular Enfield after his comrade is killed in battle. He proudly describes Florence Fleming as "the brightest gun in the whole army". I interpret that to mean very shiny.

Leander Stillwell of the 61st Illinois writes in "Story of a Common Soldier" that he was required to keep his M-1854 Lorenz "as bright and shiny as a silver dollar" in order to pass inspection. He does not say the finish was to be maintained as issued, but instead consider the words he decides to use here (shiny as a silver dollar) and why (to pass inspection).

Allowing that none of these descriptions are of a newly issued or re-issued US Model 1842 the overall question is much the same. If your portrayal is of a Civil War soldier in the field or on campaign, the relative brightness of any polished finish would likely vary from "armory bright" to "bright as a silver dollar" depending on the maintenance provided by the soldier and the inspection standards of the unit.

[Charles Heath]

Before folks implode at the mention of "ordnance sergeants" and muskets in the same breath, this well circulated article by Phil Katcher fills in a good number of blanks:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/Base/3964/ordnance.html

No pun intended.

[Craig L Barry]

Removed the potentially controversial term "ordnance sgt" from above post so that the thread does not get off track...instead, the point for consideration here is simply in period accounts the metal parts on a musket were polished by the soldier so that the musket would pass inspection. And the terms used in at least one account to describe the finish strongly suggest the metal parts (except the butt plate) were highly polished to a coin luster. "National armory bright" would be duller on the luster scale than a "silver dollar".

A final point, (one that is covered in "Civil War Muskets: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy") is that there would very likely be a degree of variation in a field polished finish, based on the standards of the unit, the finish on the metal parts to begin with and the level of enthusiasm of the soldier for the task. Leander Stillwell (and at least some others) clearly got some amount of satisfaction out of maintaining the metal finish to a high luster. One can not assume from this particular account that his unit standards were universal throughout the armies. We know that they were not. Other accounts describe the cleaning of the musket as a necessary chore to be completed before moving on to other pursuits. The aesthetics of the finish were not a priority as long as it passed inspection.

[LibertyHallVols]

As they say, a picture is worth...
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4027&d=1170425112

There are a few more pics in this thread:
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8966

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize...

"Unmolested" originals speak the loudest.
Photographs of "unmolested" originals speak the next loudest.

At the armory, the "bright" iron/steel metal parts (versus blackened, heat blued, or color case hardened) were polished to a "sheen" by metal-on-metal burnishing.

From there there is how Civil War soldiers maintained their arms in the field.

Beyond that, is what has been done since then in the past 140 years or so by family members, collectors, dealers, museum staff, and reenaactors...

Yes, the Italian reproductions tend to suffer from modern polishing in the from of abrasive disks and pads that impart a non-period "bufifng wheel" mirror bright finish.

Of course, operationalizing and agreeing on terms such as "dull," "bright," "sheen" or "mirror bright" can be another discussion..

Curt

[Charles Heath]

At the armory, the "bright" iron/steel metal parts (versus blackened, heat blued, or color case hardened) were polished to a "sheen" by metal-on-metal burnishing.

The "metal-on-metal" mention reminds me of the CS admonitions to NOT use the rammers to burnish the barrels.

[LibertyHallVols]

At the armory, the "bright" iron/steel metal parts ... were polished to a "sheen" by metal-on-metal burnishing.


Curt,

This is the first I have heard of "metal-on-metal" abrasion to burnish metal. I presume we are not talking about files here... how was this done?

Interesting Stuff! Thanks!!

John

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

I will have to let a metal worker answer for me, but in brief and to over-generalize...

"Polishing" metal involves a "scratching" or cutting device such as a file, or abrasive device such as emory ot sandpaper, or some abrasive material such as brick dust, pumice, or rottenstone, etc.,etc.
Polishing works two basic ways. It removes material above the surface plane. And, it replaces larger gouges and scratches with progressively shallower and fine ones until the human eye can no longer perceive them and the light that is refelcted appears as a sheen or shine.

"Burnishing" does two things. First it peens down high spots and renders the surface "bright" by increasing ligth reflectivity which makes the surface look bright. Plus it hardens the surface of steel or iron.

I have been researching actual CW era arms production methods for years with not much success, IMHO.

Off the top of my head, I think the barrel burnishing machine from Springfield Armory has survived and is on static display at the museum there. I seem to remember having a picture of it, but cannot readily find it, and suspect; 1. I didn't have one, or 2. It was killed in a virus attack that ate up 60-70% of my reference images a couple of years back DESPITE some really impressive anti-virus protection software.

But, there are some period lithographs of the barrel roller burnishing machine in some books on period muskets. It was a powered, belt driven device, with a series of vertical steel rods that burnished barrels under pressure.

Because a rifle or rifle-musket barrel was typically mild "steel," as compared to the iron/mild steel of other gun furniture, when burnished it took on a different "sheen" than the other parts...

Again, I will let metal workers do a better job!

Sorry,

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

The appearance of the barrel finish on the US 1861 rifle-muskets pictured in post # 6 do a great job showing what I was (clumsily) trying to say in posts # 3 and # 5 about the national armory bright finish. That picture looks like the so-called "Organ of Muskets" consisting of 645 pristine US 1861s on display at Springfield Armory.

[LibertyHallVols]

That picture looks like the so-called "Organ of Muskets" consisting of 645 pristine US 1861s on display at Springfield Armory.

Craig,

You are correct! I had the pleasure of visiting SA NHS in August during a business trip to Boston. My advice to anyone reading this:
If you get a chance to visit Springfield Armory, DO IT!!!:nerd:

[GrumpyDave]

From Butterfields "Camp and Outpost:"

Excerpts from the Revised Army regulations.

105. ...Bright barrels will be kept clean and free from rust without polishing them; care should be taken in rubbing not to bruse or bend the barrel...

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

From the U.S. Ordnance Manual, Third Edition, 1862, "Cleaning of Arms," page 203:

"In cleaning the arms, great care should be observed to preserve the qualities essential to service, rather than to obtain a bright polish.
Burnishing the barrel (or other parts) should be strictly avoided, as it tends to crook the barrel, and also to destroy the uniformity of the exterior finish of the arms."

I seem to have to misplaced by Confederate version, but they echo the same...

Curt

[PvtWill]

The Confederate ORDINANCE MANUAL 1863,

"In the inspection of arms, officers should attend to the qualities essential to service, rather than a bright polish on the exterior of the arms."

Also includes a VERY thorough description on dismantling and cleaning of arms by the individual soldier and or squad of ten.

Regards,

M Williams

[Bill]

Guys,

Sometimes, I think we over analyze things. The answer to this question is actually pretty simple, how bright does our sergeant want our weapons to be? What I'm saying is the answer changes from time to time and from unit to unit.

It's pretty clear that it was against regulations to burnish musket barrels, but if it would keep you off the Sergeant's sh*t list, I'll bet barrels got burnished.

I've said this before, but some things in the military never change. Private Tentpeg doesn't care what they are saying in Washington or Richmond, as long as the person he reports to is happy.

In regard to those weapons at the Springfield Armory. Polished metal will dull with time. There's really no way to know if they look the same today as they did 140 years ago.

Sutlers sold rotten stone that would polish a rifle barrel as bright as anything on the market today. Somebody was buying the stuff.

[65thgainf]

I had thought the same thing. Any item that old, will have a patina on it.


In regard to those weapons at the Springfield Armory. Polished metal will dull with time. There's really no way to know if they look the same today as they did 140 years ago.

[LibertyHallVols]

In regard to those weapons at the Springfield Armory. Polished metal will dull with time. There's really no way to know if they look the same today as they did 140 years ago.

Have you ever SEEN those weapons at SA? I have. And, let me tell you, if those suckers have dulled with time, then they must have been shiny as the bumper on a perfectly restored '57 Cadillac!! :wink_smil Metal doesn't dull just sitting there. It has to be exposed to something in order to dull, whether that be use, elements, or poor storage conditions.

I think there are two issues being discussed here simultaneously and interchangeably (sp?):
1) How bright were they when new?
2) How bright were they while maintained and in active use?

On Number 1: I would submit that the various weapons on display at SANHS are as good an answer as you are likely to get in this or any other lifetime.

That's my two cents. Now, I'm gonna go polish my musket! :tounge_sm

[Bill]

John,

I'm one of those folks who polish my weapons to a high shine. I store them in a rack in a closet. It's amazing how they dull down over the course of a winter, while sitting in that dark closet. The only thing they are exposed to is air and some minor changes in humidity.

My point was pretty simple. Clean and polish your rifle to suit yourself and you will most likely be pretty much period correct. Or better yet, if you have a good sergeant in your unit, make sure your weapon passes his inspection.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Yes, iron (steel) begins to take on "patina" simply because it is exposed to oxygen and water in the air. It dulls. It blackens. It browns.

I would add this though. That that is not an even process, or constant, or universal. Meaning the individual "environment" as well as the "maintenance" of the piece in the form of storage, conditions (say a wet basement versus a dry attic) and particularly maintenance oilings or greasings over time will retard, promote, or accelerating iron turning to a pile of iron oxide dust.

If one examines a decently "large" sample of "mint or minty" originals, from a decent number of sources, and the "state of shine" is the same- it might can be inferred that there is a similarity to the comon condition.

But at the same time, "who did what, when, and in in what way, over time" to our surviving pool of artifacts is impossible to qualify or quantify. But when there are features shared in common...

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt
Proud Member of the Inferences, Educated Guesses, and Assumptions Rifles

[Bill]

Curt,

You are dead right. Any weapon, unless it's stored in an airtight case, is going to require maintenance. Does anyone know how they maintain the weapons at the Springfield Armory? Do we even know if these weapons never left the Armory, or if they were collected at a later date?

There is one constant in almost all cleaning/polishing procedures. You are removing metal from whatever you are cleaning or polishing. It doesn't matter if you are using a ramrod to burnish a rifle barrel or wood ash to clean it, both are removing, at least, some metal. I think we've all seen rifles that look to be in mint condition where the date on the barrel's breach is weak. Is that because it was lightly struck, or the weapon has been cleaned a lot?

How do I join your unit? Inferences, Educated Guesses, and Assumptions seem to be my stock in trade.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Herr Bill...

"Inferences, Educated Guesses, and Assumptions seem to be my stock in trade."
In the end, any and all researcher's for that matter.
Just part of the weird combination of the Scientific Method and the Imperfect Past we must live with.
;) :) :)

Curt

[JimConley]

The Confederate ORDINANCE MANUAL 1863,

"In the inspection of arms, officers should attend to the qualities essential to service, rather than a bright polish on the exterior of the arms."
Mark,
I think that Bill addressed the idea accurately, despite regulations:
Sometimes, I think we over analyze things. The answer to this question is actually pretty simple, how bright does our sergeant want our weapons to be? What I'm saying is the answer changes from time to time and from unit to unit.

So many things vary from unit to unit, theatre to theatre, campaign to campaign, etc. When a unit may have been in camp or placed somewhere for a period or length of time, the attention to regulations might well have changed as per the expectations of field command.

I've read Sam Watkins a number of times. The one instance where he mentions inspection in some form of detail says this:
"It was the same drudge, drudge day by day. Occasionally a Sunday would come; but when it did come, there came an inspection of arms, knapsacks and cartridge boxes. Every soldier had to have his gun rubbed up as a new silver dollar."
From: Watkins, Sam. Co. Aytch: A Confederate Memoir of the Civil War. (New York: Touchstone, 1997), p. 93.

Granted, that is only one account of the issue, but I believe the main premise is variability in practices.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Yes...
In the end, the ONLY universal is that there are no universals.
;)

Curt
Heretic

[LibertyHallVols]

On the condition thing, please view the attached photographs. The first shows a contract US M1861 rifle musket on display at SA NHS. The weapon shows clear signs of firing and other use and handling. The appearance of the metal could be called “clean” but is clearly a dull gray, rather than “bright”. I would not classify this as a “relic” piece as the overall condition is quite good, as can be seen in the photo (there is no “burnout” behind the cone, wearing down of edges or contour on wood or metal, bright edges, etc.). Could this be a good example of what a “’61 Springfield” looked like “in use”? I have no idea, but it is a ’61 that “was used”.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4736&d=1176891652
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4737&d=1176891652
Compare this to a similar piece (not in the “organ of muskets” display) on display at SA NHS that I believe is either unused, or was used very minimally in its day. Note the differences in the finish (“shine”) on the metal. The cone is still blue and edges are sharp and unmarred on both metal and wood. This being said, you can see a dark “ring” around the cleanout screw and some abrasion on the lockplate. The abrasion appears light… could this be from use, an old cleaning, machining of the plate during manufacture, or polishing after the plate was case hardened? …who knows!? However, you can clearly see that, in comparison to this piece, the first has clearly lost the “sheen” it had when “new”.

The third picture shows a detail from the “Organ…” display. I wanted to show that the muskets on the display were not re-re-re-reburnished. Corners and edges on both wood and metal are sharp and crisp. In most cases the rear sights are still black. Although I didn’t capture it in one of the photos here, a detail I noticed today in one of the pictures that I have from the display the difference between the finish on barrel bands and barrels. The bands on the muskets in the display are almost “nickel bright” and shiny, while barrels, though “shiny”, appear to have more of a satin finish.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=4738&d=1176891652

While Bill is quite right in his post that the bright finish on this muskets must be maintained (aka – the muskets on display must be cleaned and maintained to look this way), there is also truth in Curt’s post in that, when a number of pieces are all in like condition, one can infer that they’ve all been treated in a very similar way over their lifetime. While it is not possible (for me anyway) to verify the history of use or non-use of the arms in the “Pipe Organ” display, the are all clearly in “like condition” and have seen minimal use, if any. Also, despite the fact that they have been maintained by the Springfield Armory, then by SA NHS (this maintenance to include cleaning, etc. to maintain the appearance of the pieces), their appearance is as close an approximation of the appearance of original arms “as manufactured” as I have encountered. Others may exist, and probably do, I just haven’t seen them.

I hope this information is helpful and clarifies some of my earlier posts.

Thanks!

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Thanks for the images (I LOVE images!!!).

Yes, sadly, I am thinking of some of the peices in the National Civil War museum in Harrisburg, PA suffering from the same mirror bright ultra-polishing effects of "buffing wheels and buffing compound." Either they from the same "source," or bear the
hand(s) of museum staff persons..
Sigh..

Oh. Barrels are a harder iron/steel than that used for other parts. Plus the burnishing process on barrels hardens the outer "skin" surface causing it to reflect light differently (shine/sheen) versus how other parts are polished, etc.

Curt

(And yes, IMHO it helps immensely when one has the very good fortune to have the chance to examine numbers of mint and otherwise excellent unused arms, from a variety of sources and collections, that appear to bear no signs of aggressive or abusive "cleaning."
Many times, even most times though, we see only the relic, used and patined, and the "cleaned" pieces.)

Curt

[65thgainf]

Guess, I need to take a trip up to Chickamauga and visit with our friend Lee White. Someone donated an entire gun collection many years ago and I think it is still on display. Don't know about the provenance of the weapons though.

Great pics, maybe the camera flash made some appear more bright ?

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

That is the Claude Fuller Collection of about 350 guns (including the prototype M1861 Springfield round cartouche box).

Much Eye Candy! And a fine Learning Experience!!

Curt

[BrianHicks]

In another thread, the problem of extracting a rammer which is stuck in a barrel came up. While extracting the rammer is a challenge, it brought to mind the question of "Why are rammers getting stuck in the barrel to begin with'. While considering this, I came up with the following:

It is unfortunate how often I have seen individuals whom somehow get their ramrods stuck in the barrel. Now.. not meaning to disperage any of those folks to whom this has happened, but it most often seems to occur due to some slight error in the way in which the weapon is cleaned.

My observations have been that this problem has most often occurred due to one of two reasons (ands sometimes from a combination of both).

LIKELY CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM:

1. Failing to remove the cone before putting a patch (or any other cleaning implement) down the barrel.

-If you remove the cone before putting a patch down the barrel, you're allowing for the air between your patch (as it is being pushed down) and the bottom of the barrel to be pushed out where the cone had been. If this isn't done, sometimes the carbon will seal the fire hole in the cone (especially after water has been in and out of the barrel, which results in gummy wet carbon) which can create a vacuum if the patch fits tight in the barrel as your pushing it in, which, when that patch gets wrapped around the bulb end of the ramrod, can result in the ram rod being stuck in the barrel.

2. Rapping the patch around the bulb end of a Springfield ramrod, or threading it through the tool slot which is in the bulb end of the Enfield ramrod as means of introducing the patch into the barrel.

Rapping the patch around the bulb end of the rammer, or threading it through the tool slot of the Enfield rammer will often make the fit too darn tight, which causes the ram rod to get stuck in the barrel.

RECOMMENDATIONS:

The better way of punching the bore, is to first remove the cone, then simply stuff the patch into the top end of the barrel, and with the worm (Each man should have been issued a worm with his weapon, you know....the little corkscrew looking attachment) threaded onto the end of the ram rod, push the patch down to the bottom of the barrel, give the ram rod a twist so that the worm gets hold of the patch, and then you pull it back out.

Using these recommended methods will greatly reduce the likelihood of a ram rod getting stuck in the barrel.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Just in my 17 years live-fire experience in the N-SSA, I found that stuck patches were the result of:

1. Too dry a patch getting hung up on the area of the bore where the black powder fouling tends to concentrate based upon the blast effect of the breech end of the barrel.

2. Too large a patch for the tolerance or gap between a modern cleaning "jag" and the land-to-land measurement of the bore.

The other side of the equation is a lost patch caused by undersized jags, too small or too thin of cleaning patches, or use the Springfield "tulip" ramrod head or the Enfield tool slot head as a jag. (Yes, I know the reference to using the slot for cleaning....)

IMHO, if we stuck closer to the CW period method of cleaning such as using the issue wiper and plenty of water, most of the stuck patches and stuck modern cleaning jags would largely go away... (even when we shoot blanks which are messier) ;-) :-) :-)

Curt

[Craig L Barry]

Water being the key ingredient there.

[Clsinclair]

Brian,

You covered it all. I have used the worm from day one and I have never gotten a rammer stuck. I use an Enfield Tool which has a worm attached.

Regards,

[paulcalloway]

Regarding removal - take a cloth canteen strap, wrap it around the tulip-end of the ramrod two or three times and pull on the strap.

[LibertyHallVols]

(John wipes egg from face)
I was guilty of one or more of the issues described by Messr Hicks at the recent Vicksburg event. It cost me my rammer. :(

One thing I am curious about...
The recent trend toward cleaning muskets "in the field." At an event firing blanks, you only need an open air way from the cone to the powder charge. As a 16 year-old powder-burnin' devil in my mainstream days, I never fouled a barrel so severely that I needed to clean it in the field. Today, at an event where I may go through 2-20 rounds in a weekend, I just don't see the need.

My personal preference is to clean my muskets at home under more controlled conditions.

Curious others' thoughts on this.

[Charles Heath]

Curious others' thoughts on this.

John,

Other than the obvious safety issue with FOD in the barrel, at some events a second NPS safety inspection occurs Sunday morning, so the magic wand of cleanliness needs to hit the musket once again. This isn't true for all events.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

"My personal preference is to clean my muskets at home under more controlled conditions. Curious others' thoughts on this."

Herr John..

I do the same, except when an inspection is part of the schedule.

IMHO, I believe that "cleaning in the field" is a result of three things:

1. The Modern Obsession we have taught about the evils of black power dissolving our guns by the minute when left uncleaned, and the modern military view of scouring the last molecule of graphite from our bores.

2. "Cleaning" makes for a useful "living history" "firper" or "thirper" activity to fill the down-time and empty after "The Battle" in a way a Civil War soldier could have done were he not bogged down with other scheduled soldierly duties and fatique details.

3. The shooter is new and does not know that if he "takes a hit" on the very first enemy volley, his gun does not get dirty.

;) :) :) :D

Curt
Just A-Funnin' Mess

[BrianHicks]

Another problem with reproduction items with our weapons (Herr Schmidt has already described the problem with repro cleaning jags) is the reproduction two piece ram rods. Once one of them gets stuck (for what ever reason) no matter what you use to extract it (other than the NPS used CO2 cartridge which will blow it out of the barrel) there is a real chance that you may seperate the top end three inches from the rest of the ram rod.

As for cleaning weapons in the field? It was done historically by the soldiers on what was probably a daily basis so, (other than the safety and inspection considerations), shouldn't that be reason enough?

Now.... for the detailed, take all the pieces parts off the weapon type cleaning... yeah... wait until you get home, but for field cleaning, it should be done (I feel) at a minimum, each evening.

[toptimlrd]

Brian,

I too field clean at every event and do a complete teardown when I get home. I had the unfortunate happen to me recently with a bore brush as I was giving the old girl her going into storage for a few months cleaning. What I finally did was pour some sweet oil down the barrel and let it get around the brush. Then using a variation of the canteen strap method gave it a few tugs and once it moved she slid right on out. I was just surprised that a bore brush could get stuck that easily in a musket that was already fairly clean (had already flushed all the fouling out o the barrel was just getting the rifling clean). Of course after all that oil going down I had to go through and clean it again to get as much out as possible, I also blew quite a few caps before loading it again but she fired on the first cap after loading.

I've seen them need the help of a trained gunsmith before too though where the only option was pull the breech plug and finish sending it through. One thing I do not use is the round jag you wrap a patch around, seen too much bad ju ju with those things getting stuck. The wiper or a slotted jag is all I use for patches.

[LibertyHallVols]

About 30 grains of powder and my rammer was free. Sometimes you need a bit more "umph" than those CO2 (as a chemist I desparately want a subscript!) cartridges can deliver.

I think that Curt has it about right. Its a firper thang.

As one who has put a bit more effort into my muskets than the standard Italian defarb, I have a strong preference for the controlled conditions at home, but am willing to accommodate our friends at the NPS.

[BrianHicks]

Since posting my original text in the first post in this thread, having considered information provided from others, I am becoming less convinced that an actual vacuum is created, and beginning to lean more towards the fact that the accumulated air pressure between the patch and the clogged cone which will inhibit the ability to push the ram rod down efficiently which causes a loss of momentum, which; along with the accumulating burnt powder residue, the tightness of the patch pinched in the space between the interior of the barrel and jag or whatever other item you wrapped your patch around, all contribute to causing the ram rod to become stuck in the barrel.

I think this is more probable, than attributing it to a 'vacuum' being created.

[rebelyell62]

A patch of what? Grass mebe?Never heard of sech.
I am resorted ta usin' flax tow ta wipe my musket

Wendell Brown

Let's make the attempt to use proper English on the Forum. I'll help:
"What sort of a patch? Grass Perhaps? I have not heard of such a thing.
I have resorted to using tow to clean my musket."

Justin Runyon

[BrianHicks]

As I understand it, the cleaning Jag that began to be issued in 1861 (or was it '62) did not have a semi-conical shaped solid end. The previous versoin did, and had such so as to allow for tolerance of the patch as the jag with patch wrapped around it, was pushed into and pulled from the barrel.

The new Jag was not intended to be used with a patch, but to be used with Flax Tow as a cleaning agent.

[Charles Heath]

Let's take a moment to head back to those heady high school auto shop class days, and recall what happens when dry piston rings slip up and down that dry cylinder wall. While not precisely the same thing, lubrication is a big help in preventing the pistons from seizing, and the rammer from getting stuck, as a previous poster mentioned.

To paraphrase an old horseman's saw, there are two kinds of reenactors -- those who have had their rammer stuck, and those who will have their rammer stuck. I keep meaning to buy one of those little CO2 round extractors from Cabela's (not an approved vendor), as a handy Kabuki tool. They push out live rounds and rammers rather well.

[Silas]

The times I've had mine stuck were usually caused from one or two factors :

(1) Not taking the effort to give the barrel one more rinse of clean water ; and/or
(2) Trying to accomplish too crud much removal with on the first two patches.

Taking my time usually eliminates the problem. If there's sufficent water to give the barrel a third or fourth drink, down it goes. A light swabbing with those first two patches instead using gorrilla strength makes a world of difference. The time it takes to pour an extra gill of water and apply some extra patches is significantly less than the time it takes to remove a stuck rammer.

In the field, I ceased using the rammer in the normal manner by relying upon a long, stout string tied to patches then inserting same down the barrel using the screw end of the ramrod.

One time I got a fat wad of patch stuck in the bottom when some not stout string broke. I had tried to clean too much, too quickly. It was no big deal because removal of both was easy with minimal use of a worm. Haven't had to tie my musket to a tree and bash the ramrod out using vice grips and mallot this millenium. Like to keep it that way, too.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

""From Rules for the Management and Cleaning of the Rifle Musket, Model 1861, for the Use of Soldiers (applies to the Springfield Models 1855, 1861, and 1863, and more generally to the Enfield Models 1853 and 1858), under "Rules for Cleaning":

It is not essential for the musket to be dismounted {disassembled} every time that it is cleaned; for, after firing it in fine weather, or when there has been no chance for the wet to get between the barrel and the stock, it can be perfectly cleaned in the following manner.

Put a piece of rag or soft leather on the top of the cone, and let the hammer down upon it; pour a gill of water into the muzzle carefully, so that it does not run down the outside; put a plug of wood into the muzzle, and shake the gun up and down, changing the water repeatedly until it comes out clear. When clear, withdraw the leather, and stand the musket on the muzzle for a few moments; then wipe out the barrel (as given in the second rule for cleaning {see below}), and also wipe the exterior of the lock and the outside of the barrel around the cone and cone-seat first with a damp rag, and then with a dry one, and lastly with a rag that has been slightly oiled. In this way, all the dirt due to the firing may be removed without taking out a screw.

2nd. Screw the wiper on to the end of the ramrod, and put a piece of dry cloth, or tow, round it, sufficient to keep it from chafing the grooves of the barrel; wipe the barrel quite dry, changing or drying the cloth two or three times.

3d. Put no oil into the vent, as it will clog the passage, and cause the first primer to miss fire; but, with a slightly oiled rag on the wiper, rub the bore of the barrel,... and immediately insert the tompion into the muzzle."

Even in a blank firing World, the first step of this procedure removes much of the built-up fouling and pours it out of the barrel so that the dry cloth or tow has less to snag on when held by the wiper in the second.

IMHO, sometimes avoiding the way things were done in the Past can often teach the WHY things were done. ;) :) :rolleyes:

Curt

[ACo.]

Hallo!


"IMHO, sometimes avoiding the way things were done in the Past can often teach the WHY things were done." ;) :) :rolleyes:

Curt






Here, here!
:D

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

OK...I tried a generic search on oil, but came up with nothing.

We have covered the topic of proper rifle/musket cleaning kits before; items which may be included in said kit are as follows:

Rifle/Musket Tool~may be wrench or other device designed for disassembly or the weapon,
Wiper~commonly reffered to as a worm, used to swab/extract patches/tow,
Ball Puller~used for the extraction of lead ball in barrel,
Cone Pick~used for cleaning out the cone,
Emery~fine granular abrasive used for polishing metal,
Patches/Tow~used for swabbing barrel and for the application of oil to the weapon.
Oil Container with Oil~used to store oil for the maintenance of the weapon.

My question; Has anyone seen an original oil container that can be documented to field use by soldiers during the ACW?

If so, was this seen if a book, website, museum, personal collection?

Provenance?

Thanks,

Paul

[MassVOL]

I have seen zinc bottles with brass tops of English manufacture complete and several dug brass tops where the container had completely rotted away. They were small oil bottles with a stem affixed to the cap as an applicator. I have inspected some in a personal collection and there is a decent repro available from O’Dea Military (not an approved vendor). The British expense pouch even has a leather retaining loop in it for the oiler to go. As the English combination tools made there way over here and it stands to reason that the the oilers did to, but in number and quantity someone else will have to speak to.

[Johnny Lloyd]

You mean this repro...?

http://heritageleathercw.com/cart/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=341

Yes, it's not an approved vendor, but it is the only one I have found so far as a repro off of an existing original.

I called the guy that supplies these... he told me usually deals with British Colonial Wars (no AmCiv) and says this bottle is dead-on accurate to what the British were producing at this time. It is known as a P1860 Oil Bottle.

Hope it helps -Johnny

[Iron Scout]

Folks,

Just for clarification, the English zinc oiler bottles/containers were imported in significant numbers per Huse's I&C invoices from the McRare Papers. Hebbert and Co (Pall Mall) also quoted "zinc oil bottles for expense pouch" in a pricing quote sheet to McRae himself on 10/24/64. If you're doing a CS impression, the oil bottle is a good choice. Check: www.britishmilitaryequipments.com

Neill Rose
PLHA

[MassVOL]

The oiler that Heritage sells comes from O'Dea. He has a lot of great orignals in his collection and is an excellant guy to talk to on the subject. i ordered two oilers from him last year.

[LibertyHallVols]

RECOMMENDATIONS:

The better way of punching the bore, is to first remove the cone, then simply stuff the patch into the top end of the barrel, and with the worm (Each man should have been issued a worm with his weapon, you know....the little corkscrew looking attachment) threaded onto the end of the ram rod, push the patch down to the bottom of the barrel, give the ram rod a twist so that the worm gets hold of the patch, and then you pull it back out.

Using these recommended methods will greatly reduce the likelihood of a ram rod getting stuck in the barrel.

While cleaning a musket at home recently, I had the rammer catch in the bore. While it wasn't "stuck", it was harder to remove that it should have been. The culprit in this case was a patch that was cut too big (in other words, the length & width were too large). This cause the patch to "bunch up" while trying to remove the rammer.

This was in a bore that had already been flushed with hot water and swabbed with another (smaller) patch! So, it was not due to "gunk" in the bore because the bore was largely clean already and the cone had been removed.

Whatever the cause, I think Brian's advice (above) is sound and probably a "best practice" when cleaning in the field. Just thought I'd share that.

[cprljohnivey]

Since I use a Springfield I don't know the answer to this but what is the tool slot actually for on an Enfield rammer?

Thanks,

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

In brief and to over-generalize...

The slot is where the "Y" or "T" arm of the various pattern "Enfield" combination tools was inserted to get more "torque" when using the ball puller/ball screw.

However, I just looked for it but could not find it quickly, there is one reference in a British militia instructions that talks about using the slot for patching. (I am not sure why as it would take a much larger than normal "patch concept" not to fall out in bore use.)
If I can retrieve it I will post it later.

Curt

[cprljohnivey]

Thanks Curt. I suspected that had something to do with it.

Thanks,

[Uncle Pig]

A few years ago we had a similar topic. Some one had a reference to the slot in the rammer being used in India. Apparently they kept a rag in the slot and wipped the bore each time they rammed. At least that is what I remember being posted.

Thanks,
Mark C. Foster

[jacobite8749]

It is used for greater "torque", but it is used to clean. The standard British cleaning patch is (and was) a piece of 4x2, four by two. Modern stuff comes on a roll, and is a perfect size for the slot. I tend to screw the "Enfield" combination tool onto the end of the rammer so as to gain great grip when cleaning.

I think the info you are after Mr.Schmidt comes from a Parker Hale booklet, or perhaps the Arms & Equipment of the British Army, 1866

[yipper]

Gents,

From “Drill and Rifle Instruction for the Corps of Rifle Volunteers”, by authority of the Secretary of State for War, 1860, Seventh Edition, W. Clowes and Sons, p.61:

Every volunteer should learn the way to clean his rifle.
1. Place the rifle at full cock, and draw the ramrod.
2. Put a piece of rag, woolen if possible, or tow, into the jag, and twist it round so as to cover it….

This has bearing on the other thread regarding the Enfield combination tool http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13433
The wiper included with the Blockade Runner copy of this implement is sufficiently tight within the bore as to prevent its use with a patch for barrel cleaning. The above passage suggests the wiper was not intended for such use.

The question is whether the dimensions of the reproduction are accurate. Still hoping that someone possessing, or with access to, an original can verify this.

Regards,

geoffrey lehmann

[wsjax4]

I recently purchased a ’61 Springfield from a seller on these boards. I need some tips for cleaning and maintaining this weapon. I’m a hunter and own quite a few guns so I know what I’m doing but I’m looking for some dos and don’ts with a muzzle loader. Your help is greatly appreciated.

[MLovejoy]

Something members in my unit learned from doing living histories at the Springfield Armory (the obvious maker of your weapon) is to make a solution of 1 part Murphy's Oil Soap, 1 part Rubbing Alcohol, and 1 part Hydrogen Peroxide. Pour that down the barrel and let it sit for a few minutes, dump it out, and repeat. Block off the nipple so the solution doesn't spray out. Immediately following pour hot water down the barrel to stop the corrosive agents in the solution.


The head man at the armory taught us that one, and if anyone knows these weapons I'm sure it's him. It also helps in softening up the cap residue behind the vent screw for easier cleaning of that area. I do that after every event.

[GWagner]

Hydrogen peroxide and murphys oil soap. Mix even parts. Store in a dark bottle.

I use it to scub the barrell out. Just pour it in with a peice of leather over the nipple with the hammer closed. Run your ram rod with a patch on in it and out, repeat until the mixture comes out clean. Pour in hot water, half cock the hammer, put on a clean patch and run it in and out until all the hot water exits through the nipple. Allow to dry and run a lightly oiled patch in and out.

Clean the outside with some light steel wool and oil.

Voila!

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Herr Scott... please do not forget the wonders of the SEARCH function.

While there are many popular modern methods for modern cleaning, I would again point to the "historical:"

"From Rules for the Management and Cleaning of the Rifle Musket, Model 1861, for the Use of Soldiers (applies to the Springfield Models 1855, 1861, and 1863, and more generally to the Enfield Models 1853 and 1858), under "Rules for Cleaning":

It is not essential for the musket to be dismounted {disassembled} every time that it is cleaned; for, after firing it in fine weather, or when there has been no chance for the wet to get between the barrel and the stock, it can be perfectly cleaned in the following manner.

1st. Put a piece of rag or soft leather on the top of the cone, and let the hammer down upon it; pour a gill of water into the muzzle carefully, so that it does not run down the outside; put a plug of wood into the muzzle, and shake the gun up and down, changing the water repeatedly until it comes out clear. When clear, withdraw the leather, and stand the musket on the muzzle for a few moments; then wipe out the barrel (as given in the second rule for cleaning {see below}), and also wipe the exterior of the lock and the outside of the barrel around the cone and cone-seat first with a damp rag, and then with a dry one, and lastly with a rag that has been slightly oiled. In this way, all the dirt due to the firing may be removed without taking out a screw.

2nd. Screw the wiper on to the end of the ramrod, and put a piece of dry cloth, or tow, round it, sufficient to keep it from chafing the grooves of the barrel; wipe the barrel quite dry, changing or drying the cloth two or three times.

3d. Put no oil into the vent, as it will clog the passage, and cause the first primer to miss fire; but, with a slightly oiled rag on the wiper, rub the bore of the barrel,... and immediately insert the tompion into the muzzle."

Regarding cleaning, Congdon's Cavalry Compendium ,1864, says says (pp. 36-37):

THE CARBINE

"The carbine should be kept in the condition which it was received from the armory. It should never be taken apart to clean, except when absolutely necessary, and with express permission of the company commander. The barrel should never be polished. The lock should never be taken apart, except by an armorer. After firing, the carbine should be cleaned with warm water, dried, and slightly oiled. Any infrigement of these instructions should be severely punished; because the rendering of a fire-arm unfit for use is one of the gravest offences an enlisted man can commit.

THE REVOLVER
The revolver is cleaned in the same manner as the carbine. The trooper should always know the number of his revolver. When ordered on any detached duty (without arms), he should place his arms in charge of the orderly sergeant, who is obliged to take charge of them and give the owner a receipt for the same.

At night, near the enemy, it is advisable to sleep with the arms under the head, unless otherwise ordered."

THE SABRE
The sabre should be kept clean and bright; the edge as sharp as possible. It is the trooper's best and most trusty weapon. If the sabre is rusty or dull, observers will justly think that its owner will never have the courage to wield it.

The scabbard should be kept clean and free from rust, but not polished.

Sperm or sweet oil and flour of emery should be used in cleaning the sabre and scabbard. Beef-marrow is good to keep them from rusting."

For more "barracks" type cleaning, as well as some field use, for every so many rifles the contractor included wooden "wiping sticks."

Curt

[Gary of CA]

Here's some period advice on rust. I thought you guys may be interested.

Rust on Guns.

In keeping a gun from rust always use animal oil and never let a gun remain rusty long. If a soldier wants to clean a rusty gun, he should first procure fine sand, which is easy obtained after a rain in water courses, mix it with oil, then scour all the rust off, if any rust remains it is apt to poison the iron and cannot be got off without great labor. Perspiration is a great enemy to iron; a soft tallow candle is good to prevent rust, and to kill rust first rub the rusty place with tallow, then put it in the sun shine, when it gets warm then rub the rust off, if the rust leaves a stain or holes always scour it out—lard oil is the best oil we can procure now. Always after a days shooting wash your gun out, wipe it dry inside and outside, then if the sun is shining put it in the sunshine and when warm wipe with a little oil; it is bad to oil the inside too much, for it will dampen the powder and render the gun useless until the charge is drawn; when the ball is drawn fill the barrel with water and let it remain for a quarter of an hour and then you can wash all out. One oiled rag can be used many times without adding oil to it, always prevent the air if possible, from getting inside of your rifle. I wish to give our soldiers as good advise [sic] as I can, hoping my advise [sic] will benefit them. Although old and not in the field, I wish to help as much as possible, and in a few days you will hear from me again.
H.
I fully endorse the above as my experience in rifle shooting, &c.
E. H. Rogers.

DAILY CONSTITUTIONALIST [AUGUSTA, GA], July 9, 1864, p. 2, c. 1