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poncho
04-14-2004, 06:47 PM
Comrades,
I have been trying to do some research on card games from the period and haven't been coming up with very much. There is an article on this forum about gambling games but I haven't found anything about card games specifically not related to gambling. For instance, was gin rummy around in the period? I don't want to show up at an event and start playing a game that is 30 years removed from the period. Is there any where I can be directed to find the proper info? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thank You

Silas
04-14-2004, 08:41 PM
Whist and euchre. I learned whist from my extended relations in Minnesota. Whist is something people did before TV came along. Been reading Hornblower of late, and whist is frequently mentioned.

Been playing euchre on my palm pilot lately. It's fast moving, and there's a great deal of strategy. Basic play is pretty easy once you understand the trump concept.

pvtRB_4thOVI
04-14-2004, 11:01 PM
Wasn't poker a pretty popular means of gambling/card playing??

va-yank
04-14-2004, 11:20 PM
We usually do whist. A very simple form of bridge with two pairs of players. There a several web sites with rules and strategy explained. But do not know if any of that has changed since the period.

General rule number one in cards, keep your cards hidden. From the officers.

KKS
04-14-2004, 11:57 PM
From John Billings's 1887 memoir "Hardtack and Coffee":
"Besides letter-writing the various games of cards were freely engaged in. Many men played for money. Cribbage and euchre were favorite games" (65).

Does anyone have a source for a period-correct cribbage board?

Kira Sanscrainte

Jeffrey Przewozniak
04-15-2004, 12:06 AM
Eallo!

Here are a couple nifty websites on the subject...

http://www.davidparlett.co.uk/histocs/index.html

http://jducoeur.org/game-hist/game-rules.html#card

http://www.pagat.com/whist/whist.html

I am in earnest,

Possum Skinner
04-15-2004, 11:35 AM
Let us not forget Faro and Chuck-a-luck. These card games of chance are well documented as gamblers favorites.

The Pigman
04-15-2004, 01:01 PM
Chuck-A-Luck is a dice game.

In fact we are going to open "O. P.'s and I. P.'s Chuck-A_Luck Emporium" this week end at our spring drill. I hpe I can get some guys to play rather than just sit around.

Thanks,
Mark C. Foster
AKA - I. P. Barnard

Eureka Independent
04-15-2004, 01:11 PM
Hi All,

A couple of great games that were popular and non gambling are Uker (sp?)
and Cribbage.

My all time favorite is Cribbage. Before I moved to Louisiana. My brother Tom (signs on as "tomarch" on the AC) and I played every Tuesday with our Dad. We try to get up a game or two at events when we are at the same event.

A good many Cribbage boards have been dug in camps in all theaters.


Hope this helps,

Don Smith

Possum Skinner
04-15-2004, 02:03 PM
You sir are most certainly correct...Chuck-a-Luck is a dice game, and I knew that, and still managed to exhibit brain flatulence when I wrote that post. Despite the rumors, I am not a complete idiot. Sorry, for that.

MassVOL
04-15-2004, 03:01 PM
You sir are most certainly correct...Chuck-a-Luck is a dice game, and I knew that, and still managed to exhibit brain flatulence when I wrote that post. Despite the rumors, I am not a complete idiot. Sorry, for that.

Is that the game with the six playing cards representing 1-6 on a die lay your money down and claim the die roll or is that another game?

JohnTaylorCW
04-15-2004, 09:42 PM
The rules for both Chuck-a-luck (dice) and Euchre (cards), as well as Seven-Up (cards), are in an article by John Wedward on the Links page:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/local_links.php?action=jump&id=154

John T

tomarch
04-17-2004, 12:50 AM
I for one would like to see more people learn cribbage. I's good for a quick game or two when you don't have much time, and the mental exercise in figuring out all your point combinations is a plus too. ;)

Jefferson Guards
04-17-2004, 09:36 AM
Just found a period reference for soldiers playing a card game (among other things) from:

Lincoln, William S., Life with the Thirty-Fourth Mass. Infantry in the War of the Rebellion., Worchester, MA: Press of Noyes. Snow & Company, 1879.

Harpers Ferry, August 7th, 1863 :

"Just look at this tableau in Company E! Two men are playing checkers, with corn and beans, upon a board chalked out on the floor of the piazza to Headquarters; near by, four others, seated on boards supported on bricks placed on end, are playing euchre, with a drum head for a table; to the left stands a man with a dirty rag in his pocket, a piece of hard soap in one hand. and a brush in the other, ready to shave his customer, who with legs wide apart, and head thrown back stands leaning against a tree."

John "Red" Turner
09-08-2004, 12:54 AM
Gents,
Anyone know of a good place to purchase authentic playing cards, papers, money, etc. Also, is there anyone who makes reproduction tools- picks, shovels, etc.?

Thanks for all the help. Semper Fi.
John Turner

PigPen
09-08-2004, 08:08 AM
John,

You could use sullivan press however I had a bad experience with them earlier this year, and a pard had one with them last year. Ordering stuff and then never getting, basic stuff like that.

For tools I have been able to find quite a few at local flee markets and antique shops. It'll take some research to know what to look for but you can usually find someone with some "old" tools they want to get rid of.

BobSullivanPress
09-08-2004, 09:31 AM
Hello,

Well, I'm willing to try again if you are.

KKS
09-08-2004, 03:16 PM
Roweclan Haversack also offers many documented kinds of period stationary, including lots of patriotic designs. They have an amazing variety. Their products were featured in The Watchdog a while back.

I also have been very satisfied with items from Sullivan Press, especially facsimile reproductions of books. My personal experience with customer service was fine. Delivery was sometimes slow, but I received every item, except for one that was out of stock, for which I was fully refunded.

Kira Sanscrainte

Jim of The SRR
09-09-2004, 03:51 PM
John,

Larry Marple used to make some GREAT repro currency. He is also VERY knowledgable on doing a correct Pay Call. My understanding is that Larry could no longer make the repro currency as it is illegal.
In regards to period shovels, pick axes, etc. I have found some decent ones at antique stores/malls. I found a nice D-handle shovel for only $13 recently in Bell Buckle, TN (a great antique mall is there). Good luck.

Regards,
Jim Butler
The SRR

3alabama
09-09-2004, 08:24 PM
As far as the money question I went to Kinko's with my original bills and they told me they would not copy it as it is legal tender. Go figure :tounge_sm . So I went to Staples & spoke with a manager and told them my intent and what it was exactly they were copying. They copied 50 sheets with 5 bills on each using document paper for me.If you do not have original bills hunt pictures down on the net and print them out to take there. Hope this helps with the money question.

BobSullivanPress
09-13-2004, 05:13 PM
It is legal to reproduce currency, as long as it is marked as a Copy or Facsimile to the degree that the United States Secret Service wants you to mark it.

It is illegal to reproduce ANY form of legal tender (coins, postage stamps, Internal Revenue stamps, treasury bonds, and all issues of Federal notes) that has ever been or is currently in circulation since the creation of the United States Mint in 1797.

You can call the Secret Service and find out what you must do to currency to make it approved. The answer you get may very well vary from one office to the next, so I recommend you get it in writing if you can.

It is the reenactor supplier's paradox: If you make bad reproductions, the ultra-authentic folks will pan it. If you make good reproductions, the Secret Service will come knocking. And don't think they won't. If you make really, really, good reproductions, You'll not only upset the secret service, but you'll upset the coin collectors too, because you are basically filling an antique market with counterfeit goods. They will scream, and the Secret Service will hear them.

Ken
02-08-2007, 09:32 PM
In a larger camp scene, found a real nice image of a couple of soldiers enjoying a game of cards.

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/3528/03713u2dh1.jpg

lhsnj
02-08-2007, 09:50 PM
Neat image..

I wonder what the soldier behind them is reading. What is the information on the picture? Is the unit or location identified?

Is there a link to the larger image?

toptimlrd
02-08-2007, 09:51 PM
I also like the guy in the background's pipe. It looks to be much nicer than most I see.

VaTrooper
02-08-2007, 11:04 PM
A bridle, two gain bags, and boots......

paulcalloway
02-09-2007, 01:00 AM
I wonder what the soldier behind them is reading.

Hard to be sure but it looks to be some sort of broadsheet.

Lone Guard
02-09-2007, 02:04 AM
Hmm, it almost looks like the man on the right is showing his cards to the camera.

ephraim_zook
02-09-2007, 10:26 AM
Hi

The photo is identified as "[Petersburg, Va. General view of camp of Oneida, N.Y., Independent Cavalry Company at Army headquarters, with men at leisure]." in the LOC collection on line.

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/03700/03713r.jpg

There is all kinds of neat stuff in here if you look around. There is a water well on the far left side of the image. Just behind the guy leaning against the tree in the center there is a black man leaning on a home-made washboard and tub. In front of the far distant hut, a regal-looking guy sitting in a very elegant armchair.

Ron Myzie

DJCasey
02-09-2007, 12:43 PM
Kind of off the subject of the photo, but what programs do people use to zoom in like that? I would love to be able to do that on my own. And maybe find something worth contributing!

lambrew
02-09-2007, 01:17 PM
Great photo! I like how you can see both brick, and barrel chimneys.

Your obt' servant....
Sean Collicott

easttnfed
02-09-2007, 01:21 PM
Whats that tucked inside the guy's rolled up pants on the left? Could it be another card or a piece of paper?

ephraim_zook
02-09-2007, 01:37 PM
Kind of off the subject of the photo, but what programs do people use to zoom in like that? I would love to be able to do that on my own. And maybe find something worth contributing!

David,

I use Adobe Photoshop, but at $649 it's probably overkill for most average computer users. Fortunately my employer bought it for me. I think Photoshop Elements will work for you, that lists at $99.

Ron Myzie

KCLoewe
02-09-2007, 07:03 PM
David,
If the photo is from the Library of Congress all you need to do is open the photo on your computer from their site, then select to download the large TIFF version. Depending on what sort of power your computer has could take a few minutes per photo. From that point you can save the image and zoom in at your leasure. One recommendation is to note the particulars of a photo so you can properly site the LOC if you ever decide to post a photo or portions of.

sedlakchristopher
02-11-2007, 02:05 AM
Mr. Ray,

As for the white "thing" in the cuff of the soldier on the left's pants...

since it is rolled up, possibly the white cotton tape used in finishing trouser cuffs
OR
if it is a mounted pair of trousers (or trowsers as an original QM sheet I have spells it) these had a button system that used a cotton strap placed under the foot to keep the pant in the boot, as this cavalry soldier is wearing, when tucked in the boot.
I don't know much about this system and how often it was used, I'm just familiar with them from the mounted trowsers we use from our artillery impression. I remember thinking that was interesting the first time I saw them in a repro... "what's this for?" kind of thing. This strap system also has some white cotton tape involved.
OR
It's a piece of a spare Ace poking out... just a guess.

Nice image.

Your obedient servant,
Chris Sedlak

easttnfed
02-11-2007, 08:22 PM
Chris,

Thanks for your explanation on what that mysterious white object was in the cuff.

Poor Private
02-25-2007, 05:39 PM
I am one of those guys who has to do something in camp. and since there is so much down time in camp. I can't carve, hate playing chess or chequers (checkers). You can only sleep so much. My other half is into raising sheep and goats, so I was wondering if any weaving was done in the camps and what type and devise or tool was used.

Cris Westphal
1st Mich Vol.

ElizabethClark
02-25-2007, 08:09 PM
One very good resource you can look to for information on what soldiers did with bivouac time is the letters home--letters are a fantastic way to see what the people themselves found interesting and noteworthy. They either mention they did X and Y, or complain about needing some item or supply to be able to do X and Y, or talk about someone else doing X and Y, etc.

A good set of questions to ask is this:

What did the original people (in this case, quartered soldiers) do?
Can I duplicate that exactly?
If not, what other things did they do (use, make, think)?
Can I duplicate that exactly?
Which historic practice (item, philosophy) will work best for my situation?

This helps prevent the backward thinking of "I'd like to do X, can I justify it?" Start with what we can document as having been done, said, eaten, worn, thought, and our impressions stay more accurate, and develop more fully.

What collections of letter, memoirs, or reminisces of soldiers have you look at to this point, to find what men of the period were doing for recreation in camp? Knowing what books you've look at to now will help others point you toward books you've not yet seen.

(Reading, by the way, seems to have been a popular pastime for both military men and men in their "citizen" lives. With the abundance of newspapers, magazines, and books both fiction and nonfiction published during the mid-century, reading historic things would be a good way to increase the context of an impression and occupy "down time" as well.)

BrianHicks
02-25-2007, 08:30 PM
I am one of those guys who has to do something in camp. and since there is so much down time in camp. I can't carve, hate playing chess or chequers (checkers). You can only sleep so much. My other half is into raising sheep and goats, so I was wondering if any weaving was done in the camps and what type and devise or tool was used.

Cris Westphal
1st Mich Vol.

Must be nice to have so much down time.

Perhaps your experience in camp has been different than mine. Between Guard, Fatigue and Drill, a period of rest is much welcome.

What to do? Clean your self, your weapon and your clothing. Make your sleeping accommodations more user friendly. If you have a post or Regt. Sutler, visit them.

A well ran event should provide enough activities for the men in camp, so as to allow for little or no idle time.

nrandolph
02-25-2007, 08:56 PM
I'll second what Mr. Hicks had to say! Go to quality events and the free time thing shouldn't be much of a problem. As has been said many times before, "busy soldiers are happy soldiers!", or at least active complaining soldiers. I've never personally had that much time at a good authentic event. I'd wonder what the organizers and officers had been planning prior to the troops arrival if there was a lot of down time. If I do get some free time, I usually sleep!

Neil Randolph
1st WV

ephraim_zook
02-25-2007, 09:53 PM
Neil,

Good to hear that you don't have much time, otherwise I'd figure I was slipping! :rolleyes:

Ron

nrandolph
02-25-2007, 10:39 PM
Ron,

That's correct! You are a hard, but fair taskmaster! I might add that Mark T. and I also have fun!

Neil Randolph
1st WV

Kevin O'Beirne
02-26-2007, 01:56 PM
As insinuated by some of the responses already posted on this thread, the extent to which a participant needs to be creative to "fill the time" at an event is a function of the event type, portrayal/scenario, organizers, and the battalion and company leadership. For example, an event that features a lot of marching culiminating in a late-afternoon battle reenactment will probably not have a lot of "down time". On the other hand, an event like a garrison portrayal MAY have increased downtime if you're not assigned to duty such as Guard or fatigue or something else.

If you're talking about the "typical reenactment", where there may be an hour of drill in the morning, followed by four or five hours of "down time" until the afternoon spectator battle, when participants are free to visit the vendors and the wife-and-kids-in-the-civilian camp, well, filling the time at that event may be a bigger challenge, particularly if your company- and battalion-commander are running off from camp themselves and leaving the men to fned for themselves. That I can tell, reenactors often like to be kept occupied, and most so-called "non-authentic" reenactor events have loads of "down time".

First, if you desire a "more military" experience and feel you aren't getting it in the events you attend, consider trying out a "campaigner" event, whether it's a marching event or a more-static (garrison-type) weekend. You'll probably start to see less free time.

I'm involved in a semi-immersion winter-quarters garrson-type event, and the challenge is to provide accurate, period activities for the battalion while not crowding it too much; after all, winter quarters was sort of dull. While we don't wish to reenact, as one person once put it, "authentic boredom", we also don't want to overdo it. What type of stuff do we do at that event?

* Fatigue details including a lot of chopping wood to keep the fires going.
* Camp guard duty.
* Picket duty (sometimes).
* Mail call, organized pre-event. This would be less likely for an event portraying troops in the midst of an active campaign, although even they sometimes received mail, sometimes even just before going into battle.
* Daily inspection of quarters by the Officer of the Day. Quarters that don't measure up to the expected standard of cleanliness have to be cleaned up and re-inspected.
* Paperwork associated with various "scenarios". This keeps busy the clerks, orderly sergeants, and company officers to a large extent.
* The men are encouraged, pre-event, to bring soldier amusements, such as cards and period games, instruments to play, etc. Some guys bring paper and pen and write letters--a very common soldier activity in camp or at stops on the march. At Gettysburg 1998 I was asked by a webzine to write "dispatches" from the reenactment, so I wrote at each stop on our marches or waiting for a "battle", with my knapsack as a desk. My comrades who saw me doing this didn't know I was doing "modern writing"--to them it looked like I was writing a letter home.
* Some of the participants at this event offer needed services. For instance, at the previous edition of this event, one fellow was providing shaves with a straight razor, so I opted for one.
* A few pre-planned "scenarios"; usually low-key stuff like a civilian asking to enter the camp to make a complaint about foraging. Nothing big or dramatic, but enough to give the boys something to talk about, and the Guard detail something to deal with.

There's loads of things, but it's easier to "get into it" when you're in an environment that's supporting more-accurate first-person activities, such as Guard duty and stuff like that.

Duke20thSC
02-26-2007, 02:32 PM
I am one of those guys who has to do something in camp. and since there is so much down time in camp. I can't carve, hate playing chess or chequers (checkers). You can only sleep so much. My other half is into raising sheep and goats, so I was wondering if any weaving was done in the camps and what type and devise or tool was used.

Cris Westphal
1st Mich Vol.

Weaving? Only after an over-indulgence in popskull and then trying perambulate the ole campground.

I believe this presents, in stark example, the difference in our own 21st C frame of reference and the 19th C. You are looking for pre-packaged entertainment. Your stated interest is in weaving wool. How about this? These were soldiers removed from their familiar surroundings. They didn't get to do what they wanted to do. They occupied their time with a plethora of occupations designed to simply fill the time, such as:
Singing. American Idol did not exist and this was done for self-entertainment, not recognition or achievement
Playing cards
Playing dominoes
Writing letters home
Writing memoirs or verse
Reading whatever was available
Whittling. Ever read descriptions of Grant? From all accounts, he never carved anything except twigs into shavings.
Smoking. Ever read descriptions of Grant?
Bible study. Ever read descriptions of Jackson? Or the revivals described by Watkins?
Instrumental play. Harmonica. Fiddle. Spoons.

You can use these as opportunites for self-improvement ...or not. It is self-guided...or not. You can go to events where they tell you what to do every 5 minutes according to some schedule...or not. You can read and apply the fruits of your reading...or not.

People of an earlier age would not ask such questrions because their world did not contain the pre-packaged, subscription entertainment that most of us have become accustomed to at home. I attended an event this past weekend where the older tradition lives on. As I left the event site, I passed bright, banked fires where banjos and guitars were played, songs were sung, not just by the singers, but by all who knew the words within the ring of light. Not all were of our period, to be sure, but old traditions and memories were recounted and passed on to the young'uns. The spirit of "our time" was alive and preserved there, no matter how academically flawed. Reenactors and students of history of future generations will spring forth from that event and its surroundings because a yearning for past honors and past glories was engendered.

Charles Heath
02-26-2007, 03:11 PM
I am one of those guys who has to do something in camp.

This August 2007 event is in your backyard, and has to potential to keep a fellow busy for the vast majority of the weekend: http://www.fortwayne2007.com/

If you are truly bored at events, take some time to back up a step and re-read the classic foundation works by Fisk, Hinman, Billings, Fletcher, Bull, et al, and maybe a few of the more obscure works dealing with the daily life of the common soldier. Grab pencil and paper to take notes, and study how what they did can be incorporated into what you can do at any given event. Use your imagination.

On the other hand, work to be done is just about always a common thread at any event, and the never ending jobs of the wood and water details are closely followed by helping the village idiot doing the cooking for the company or battalion, as the case may be. Having been that village idiot a number of times, I can tell you without hesitation that any form of help (unless you happen to be Colbi Rosenthal) is greatly appreciated.

How can you help? Glad you asked that. In the absence of KPs, which the powers almighty invariably forget to assign:

1. Learn the scrub the living Hell out of a sheet iron mess kettle with soap water and sand. They don't need to be armory bright, but most of them could use a good scrubbing and scouring. Also learn why this does not work well with tin.

2. Become skilled at sharpening knives, cleavers, axes, and whatever else may be dull as a froe around the cook fire. A small stone or brick and a little work can help a battered tool.

3. Learn to splint wood to the point where the different configurations and types of wood can be used for different types of fires whether baking, boiling, or fulfilling the natural desire for a good Guy Fawkes or Joan D'Arc pyre when the heavens burst forth with a deluge.

4. Create a deer path between the cook fire and the water supply by fetching buckets of water. Once the patch is firmly developed, perfect your ability to Tom Sawyer this never ending task on some unsuspecting soul.

5. Help with food prep. With a minimal amount of training, you too can cut meat for hours at a time, make consistent carrot and potato cubes, quarter cabbages, core apples, jump Sibley tents in a single bound, open tins with a bayonet, and weep over onions so strong they can practically carry water by themselves.

6. Learn to make coffee and help those poor souls wandering around camp in the rain at 3:00 a.m. identify the coffee kettle from the dishwater kettle. Remember, the coffee need not be good, or real coffee, nor does it have to be much different than a strange glow in the dark shade of gray for your fellow participants to enjoy it. Keep them guessing by tossing in some secret ingredients, so they ask purely innocent questions like "was this kettle formerly used to boil rat poison?" To which you sweetly reply, "Why, no, but the captain had us boil up some smegma for use as caulk."

7. Assist young troops, or at least those fellers hailing from the Harpeth River Brownwater Squadron in determining the difference between soap and cheese when both are being issued at the same time. Believe me when I say you won't have any trouble identifying those who receive a no-go for this task.

8. Fill some wag's knapsack with rocks or bricks. Sure, this has nothing to do with cooking, but, man, look at the alibi you'll have while observing the unpleasantly surprised Private Whoathisdangthinggotheavyinahurry attempt to secure his knapsack hook in that triangle thingie.

9. Steal a pie. Some tribes from the Hoosieriania Nation tend to only steal half a pie. Why this is, no one knows. Some cooks put the trash pies out on a board elevated in the middle of camp, and put the good pies under a false bottom in a hardtack box, but I digress. An especially evil cook would bake an apple pie with salt instead of sugar, and leave that out there for the pie pilferers to plunder.

10. Since you mention you don't like whittling, give this a try. Find a big sweet potato, carve the best likeness of a male dog's reproductive organ that you possibly can. (Think Mastiff or Great Dane, and not Pomeranian.) Leave this work of art as the most especial centerpiece for the Officer's Mess table. Even better when enhanced with a circle of wildflowers.

Sure, I'll move this to The Sinks.... :rolleyes:

lhsnj
02-26-2007, 05:03 PM
http://www.civilwarphotos.net/files/images/002.jpg

Another image of soldiers playing some cards while enjoying some "down time".

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/va_sgt/soldiersrelaxing.jpg

The note from the page I found it on says it is taken around Petersburg, VA.

Poor Private
02-26-2007, 05:11 PM
Thank you Kevin this is the kind of info I lookin for and thats the kind of events that are here in my area. So I was trying to fill the down time. Unfortunatly there are not any of the imersion events in this area .

Poor Private
02-26-2007, 05:14 PM
And I apologise for not signing the post
Cris Westphal
1st Mich

GermanDraftee
03-02-2007, 07:29 AM
Going back to the original image, the hanwritten inscription at the top appears to include a date that looks like March (?) 1865. (It was fun enlarging the photo and holding a mirror up to the computer screen.)

John Thielmann

Eric Wisbith
11-07-2007, 12:41 PM
Quick and easy. Did CW era cards have jokers?

DJCasey
11-07-2007, 01:33 PM
I found this on the site of the United States Playing Card Company website and have found other sources backing up the idea that they came to be just after the war.

"Americans also invented the Joker. It originated around 1870 and was inscribed as the "Best Bower," the highest card in the game of Euchre. Since the game was sometimes called "Juker," it is thought that the Best Bower card might have been referred to as the "Juker card" which eventually evolved into "Joker." By the 1880s, certainly, the card had come to depict a jocular imp, jester or clown. Many other images were also used, especially as Jokers became vehicles for social satire and commercial advertising."

I know Euchre was popular among soldiers during the war, perhaps the need came from them? Anyone know of people making there own "Best Bower" card for Euchre?

YoungCampaigner
11-10-2007, 06:51 PM
Hello All. Can anyone tell me how old the game of blackjack is? I have played it at events before with my pards but I am not sure wether it is authentic. I do know for a fact that the game originated in the 1700's in France but I don't know if it had made it here by the 1860's. Thanks.

Custerboy
11-11-2007, 08:06 AM
Kind of off the subject of the photo, but what programs do people use to zoom in like that? I would love to be able to do that on my own. And maybe find something worth contributing!

Internet Explorer 7, lower RH corner of screen. Default is set at 100%; click the arrow, enjoy.:)

KATE1880
11-14-2007, 09:18 PM
Hey Guys, well I've really enjoyed reading this post and getting info on card games to play, but my question is more regarding the cards themselves.
I've heard differing opinions and was hoping someone on here would know a good answer.

On the subject of authentic looking playing cards -- were there ever cards with women on them? The earliest I can find penny cards with women was 1880. Anyone ever seen them in our era?

Rob Weaver
11-15-2007, 09:12 AM
Hello All. Can anyone tell me how old the game of blackjack is? I have played it at events before with my pards but I am not sure wether it is authentic. I do know for a fact that the game originated in the 1700's in France but I don't know if it had made it here by the 1860's. Thanks.

Blackjack was played, often under its French name "viente-un," "Twenty-One." It may have had minor differences to the rules (I'm not sure if the five-cards-but-still-under-21 hand was played at the time.) Still, it is a period game, playable by those familiar with the modern species.

VIrginia Mescher
11-15-2007, 09:26 AM
Hello All. Can anyone tell me how old the game of blackjack is? I have played it at events before with my pards but I am not sure wether it is authentic. I do know for a fact that the game originated in the 1700's in France but I don't know if it had made it here by the 1860's. Thanks.

I checked several Hoyle's that I have and the rules for Vingt-Un (Blackjack or Twenty-one) was in them. In the 1857 edition of Hoyle's Games (American edition) there were two pages devoted to the game. In the 1864 edition of The American Hoyle there were 4 pages devoted to the game. I particularly like the first sentence. "For a little gentle gambling - say for trifling stakes of a dime or ten thousand dollars - there is no more easily acquired game than Vingt-un; certainly few more amusing."

Twenty-one could also be played with dice according to the 1864 Hoyles.

VIrginia Mescher
11-15-2007, 09:54 AM
On the subject of authentic looking playing cards -- were there ever cards with women on them? The earliest I can find penny cards with women was 1880. Anyone ever seen them in our era?

I'm not sure if you are talking about decks of cards or speciality card decks.

In a copy of The History of Playing Cards (1865) there were several illustrations of women (other than the queen) in decks of cards but they were all from a much earlier time period.

I have reproduction decks of cards with Union and Confederate generals on them and even one deck with flowers on them. I haven't done enough research to know if there are entire decks of cards that have women on them.

There are speciality card decks for games that have some women on the cards, such as Dr. Busby, Single Blessedness (similar to Old Maid), Old Maid, and there may be others but off hand I can't think of the names of the games.