Image of US solider with all English accouterments

[Tim Prince]

ALL-

Here is one of those great images that I just had to share. It is a 1/6 plate ambro that I purchased at the Nashville show this weekend.

The image shows a fully equipped US soldier (more than likely a member of the 6th or 44th Mass) with all English accouterments. He sports the classic snake buckle belt, the "Enfield" bayonet scabbard and frog (note that the frog has the strap), the wide cartridge sling for an Enfield cartridge box and an Enfield rifle-musket with sling. He is wearing what appears to be a non-regulation dress coat with epaulettes. His trousers have a double contrasting color stripe on them as well. His shako with infantry hunting horn is on the table next to him. I'm not horribly up on which Mass units were issued what types of uniforms, but I'm assuming the combination of the striped trousers, special frock and the shako will make one of you guys say, "I know what unit that is!"

I welcome your comments and observations.

[Prodical Reb]

Tim,
Nice image! first noticed the blueing on the Enfield. It is blued! Then I started looking at the Enfield........ The wide band was the first give away. Then the first band (nearest the lock) is noticably solid with no pinch screw. It is a solid band also. Then I noticed all 3 spring retainers are visible; all o this means that it is a type II Enfield. Nicely S-figured hammer too!

What is the chance that this is a "Windsor" Enfield (Made in Windsor, Vermont by Robbins and Lawrence) between 1855 and 1858. Since most of these didn't make it across the pond to the UK because the Britsh cancelled the contract (due to the quick end of the Crimean War) and forced R&L in to bankruptcy; Most of the 15,000 arms produced by R&L were sold to state militias here in the US. Both North and South State Militias. These would have been the only Enfields available during the first few months of the war. Before Importations of the Type III Enfields began.

A good source about the Windsor Enfield rifles is Tony Becks web site about the Colt Special pattern Springfield. http://www.civilwarguns.com/specmod.html

I think Tim is right and this is a NE state militia photo. Which one I can't guess though.

[Slouch]

the lock (or at least the hammer) looks bright to me. The barrel being blued is a little iffy IMO. Could go either way

[Goat]

Tim et al:

I am no expert, but is it possible that this really IS an English soldier?

Serious question...

Rob Willis

[Tim Prince]

I thought the top band was wide- indicating a Type II, but I could not see the band springs (my eyes are getting worse). I agree that it likely is a Type II. Since the State of Massachusetts was buying the their equipment from England, it is very possible that some Type II's were shipped. I have examined one Type II that was not only British military marked, but also had Confederate import marks from Sinclair-Hamilton & Co. The one in the image could either be a "surplussed" gun or it could also be a left over Windsor contract gun. Many of those Windsor guns were purchased by Northern states.

I'm very confident that this is a US soldier. The shako with the hunting horn is just too much of US military look to ignore, and other than the epaulettes, the frock is fairly close to a regulation US dress coat. We know for a fact that the 6th & 44th Mass were issued all "Enfield" accouterments along with Enfield rifle muskets, so I'm pretty sure it is one of those guys. I just don't know enough about their uniforms to know if we can identify the unit by the coat/trousers/shako.

Where is Tim Kindred with his knowledge of the various Mass units when we need him?

[Goat]

Mr. Prince, I am not here to tell you your biz, trust me. But the evidence is leading my eye to the idea that this is indeed a Commonwealth soldier, probably light infantry. Suggesting that something "seems" American and "except for" is a bit of a stretch.

I SAY THIS only because I haven't seen the original close up. As to the horn and shako, see the following as a source for leads:

http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regts/the_rifles/history_traditions/uniform_equipment/the_bugle_horn/index.htm


Rob Willis

[Tim Prince]

Rob,

I'm open to discussions and thoughts. That is one of the reasons that I posted the image here for discussion. The horn appears to be the US 1858 style horn, but I could be wrong. I'm trying to find an image that was posted on the A/C previously as a Mass soldier with a jacket that had the same style epaulets. The image was a 1/2 shot, so you could not see if it was a jacket or frock. Let's keep the discussion rolling and find some good evidence as to who he really is.

Thanks!

[Goat]

Tim,

As I said, I am no expert. But I will say this, you may have a much better find on your hands than you thought!

Pitch in, everyone.

[65thgainf]

I imagine the case has been opened to look for photographer/location/etc...details ?

I enjoyed the show this w/e. I got a nice little print signed by Mort Kunstler who was there autographing stuff. Great guy and easy to talk to.

[Pritchett Ball]

Tim!

Thanks for posting that photo...it's a 2nd Model Enfield for sure. If you take the photo and put it in a photo program, you can lighten it up a bit, and enlarge it...you see the barrel band springs...

As far as a British, or American soldier, I couldn't tell you, but I've attached a photo of a British Soldier WITH a shako and a 2nd Model Enfield also. May just be adding fuel to the fire, but I LIKE the photo(s) you posted!:D

Kevin Dally

[JDolan]

While I'm by no means an expert in any of this, having taken a close look at the shako, as well as the other evidence in the two original pictures, through comparing it with the linked website and photograph, I'd hae to say that this soldier is definately a soldier of the Commonwealth.

Why?

Look closely at the shako, especially in the second photograph when you enlarge it a bit. While kinda obscured, you can distinctly see what looks to be a Crown, as well as (looking just beneath it and to either side between it and the bugle proper) two metal cords similar to the silver Bugle Horn on http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regts/the_rifles/history_traditions/uniform_equipment/the_bugle_horn/index.htm at the very top. The only difference being that for some reason this is clearly brass and not silver in color.
Look also to the feather/tassle on the shako on the table. It is very clearly kept in the same fashion as the commonwealth trooper that Kevin Dally posted just above me.

Besides that, should we be taking note of the way the cartridge box is slung, or was that done simply as a matter of fact because the table would be in its way if kept in its normal position?

[tenfed1861]

Judging by the known image of the British soldier and compaired with this one,it looks like he might be a Brit.My one question is the eppilates (sic,mods please fix).The Brit has almost shoulder scales while this image has cloth.So my two conclusions is either a British soldier or an early war Federal in a weathly militia.

[RJSamp]

Double striped trowsers......wierdest belt 'buckle' I've ever seen.....what's all of that stuff on his upper left chest underneath the cartridge box strap?

[Erik]

Looking at this image I am struck by several features.
The coat seems too short for a frock coat, while the collar seems too tall for a British tunic. The twisted shoulder cords are consistent with those worn by the Canadian Militia.
The dark double stripes with a light between are consistent with Canadian practice as is the light piping down the front of the tunic.
The shako is appropriate for the 1855 British pattern or even the 1861 pattern as it is perched on a book allowing the plate to show. I am distrurbed by the sunken crown on the shako as this does not demonstrate the best manufacture.
The buttons appear to be black, but may be gilded at the time as was often done and now appear black.
Given the above at first glance, I could surmise that this is a Canadian Militia Rifleman or given the shako plate, a member of the Rifle Brigade, stationed in Canada at this time, or even a younger member of the Royal Canadian Rifles.
The difference would be in the contrast of the piping on the tunic, and that is what I see it as, the cuffs which are invisible and the wellington boots which were very popular in the Canadian Militia.
If this image can be attributed to the Mass. Regiments it is very valuable, if to the Canadian Militia quite valuable, The Rifle Brigade extremly valuable, The Royal Canadian Rifle Regiment, precious.

Erik Simundson QOR

[Guy Gane III]

I am not going to throw in my guess as to who this soldier represents, but after looking over the comments a second time and the photo for about 3 minutes, I'd wouldn't be surprised if it was Canadian/English/Early-war Militia.

Just some observations....

1. Did anyone notice the taped outer edge of the frock?

2. The buttons are definitely of a darker material than the more common brass. I can't fathom an officer not caring about the up-keep of brass anything. Especially should this be Militia. If brass, why would they not be colored in?? Perhaps they are pewter.

3. I wonder what the book is. (Under the shako)

4. The hunting horn looks a little bit too thick for an issue item. Could be locally made. Perhaps its not a horn at all... perhaps some type of bird. (ie: eagle, etc.)

5. Perhaps the object on this gentleman's left breast is a rosette of some sort, a ribbon or even a flower.

6. Higher up on the left leg, it seems to me that the "double-stripe" could in fact be a single, thick stripe. Otherwise, it would seem that the stripes started far apart and narrowed at the lower seam/cuff. If you look at the way the material is folding over itself, which suggest to me that the pants are very new, you can tell the welt caused by the stitching. Weird.

7. Are those shoes??? or boots?

[ajroscoe]

Hi everyone,
I'm new here, so sorry if these are small points. The second picture that Kevin Dally put up is consistent with the uniform of the Rifle Brigade (known as the 95th Rifles during the Napoleonic Wars) or the King's Royal Rifle Corps (known as the 60th Royal American Rifles during the Napoleonic Wars), but of which wore three rows of buttons on their coats in the Hussar style. The soldier in the photo in question has only one row of buttons, and therefore cannot be a member of either of those rifle organizations. The uniform is still unusual, possibly Commonwealth, but I thought I'd point out that his bayonet is on his right hip (since the photo is inverted). Does anyone know if the British regs called for the bayonet on the right hip? I know he could just have it there for the picture, but if that's how the Brits did it, that might help identify the picture.
Very Respectfully,
Andrew Roscoe

[Tim Prince]

Okay guys, here is some more fuel for the fire (and from my perspective 6th Mass evidence). From Don Troiani's "Regiments & Uniforms of the Civil War", page 5, in reference to the uniforms of the 6th Mass in 1861:

"The uniformed companies have black pants with red & orange stripes down the sides and dark blue infantry coats." - Washington Evening Star (period newspaper account referring to the 6th Mass rather eventful march through Baltimore). (Emphasis is mine)

Troiani continues: "Clad in state purchased overcoats and milita shakos, the 6th Mass had gone to war as citizen soldiers." (Emphasis is mine)

While I don't think our subject is wearing black trousers, the stripes that I think are a pair of stripes could well be the orange outline stripes on either side of the red stripe (as shown in Troiani's picture on page 6 of the same book). I'm still on the fence as to who the guy is. If the hunting horn is the style with the ropes, that still does not rule out a US soldier, as that style of hunting horn insignia was in use with the regular army until at least 1851, and as we all know the state militia uniforms did not exactly rush to keep up (or necessarily even want to) with regular army regulations.

The jury is still out. Someone out there has to be an expert on Mass uniforms.......

Thanks for all of your help and comments.

[Guy Gane III]

Upon another examination... I, too, see the two lighter colored stripes on the outside of a darker material. :D

[ejn]

I don't think this is a 6th Mass soldier. Take a look at the drawings at http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cph/3g00000/3g01000/3g01700/3g01736v.jpg
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/i?pp/PPALL:@field(NUMBER+@band(cph+3a04036))
http://www.webbgarrison.com/Cvimages/00114.jpg

The uniforms are not similar enough.

Ed Norris

[Tim Prince]

Thanks for the links, the pictures are interesting.

It is interesting to note that in the two newspaper drawing depictions that the uniforms don't even really match each other. Note that in one they are wearing forage caps or kepis and in the other shakos, with a few other caps and hats thrown in. The only this truly consistent is that they are wearing overcoats in both of the pictures that I could access from the links. While period sketches can provide a level of information, I have found that details are not always correct. There is also the possibility that the artists involved did not even see the troops with their own eyes, and drew interpretations after the fact. Bear in mind that Paul Revere's famous Boston Massacre engraving was not of something that he saw with his own eyes (and in fact was based upon the drawings of another person who I don't think was there either). In any event, I always take any period drawing (other than maps from topographical engineers) with a pretty big grain of salt......

Thanks again for sharing.

[Goat]

A clue has surfaced. Look at the several belt buckles on this page, then at our boys'.

http://www.civilwaroutpost.com/16.html?m7:cat=%2FAccoutrements:nonested

Rob Willis

[MassVOL]

Gentlemen,
Yes the Sixth was armed with Enfields, but they were not issued to them until they returned from their 90 days of service. They left Massachusetts in their militia uniforms armed with Springfield rifles. These rifles were then taken from them upon return from service and reissued to then forming three year regiments. Many soldiers of the Old 6th joined the 26th Mass which were issued Springfield rifles (most likely 55’s) from the returning 5th and 8th Militia as well.

"Our entire stock of Springfield rifled muskets was exhausted in arming the 31(sic 3rd?), 4th, 5th, 6th, and 8th militia regiments which were sent into the field in April, except so many as suffered to arm the first volunteer regiment, which was based on a militia organization. The 5th, 6th, and 8th , when they returned from their three months service, brought back their arms, which were immediately sent to be repaired and cleaned. Only enough of them have returned yet from the hands of the armorers to supply the 26th volunteer regiment."
Letter The Worcester Spy, October 30, 1861 , (Volume 90 # 43 to Hon Geo. Boutwell from GOV Andrews.

If this is a 6th Mass soldier this photo would have to have been taken in very late '61 or later to account for the Enfield. Massachusetts rapidly phased out the Militia uniform to replace them with Federal Uniforms in order to provide soldiers to the Federal Government and state defense. The available window for this being a 6th Mass soldier is fairly small particularly in a Militia uniform, and while not 100% certain I believe they had Mass militia grey jacket when they left the state.

The 44th regiment was organized from existing militia units, most notably the New England Guards, and would have been clothed in standard federal uniforms after muster. Due to the need for the Enfield to go to regiments leaving for the seat of war I think its unlikely that a militia soldier from either of these regiments would have an Enfield and still be wearing any thing other than a standard federal uniform. Looking at the New England Guard Uniform may shed some more light on this.

[BCIDick]

Not neccessarily the 6th or 44th. Other Massachusetts units were issued British leathers early in the war. I think (not 100% sure) the 25th also was issued Brit leather. The shako was very early war and was typical headgear for pre war Mass. militia. There is a very good article in CW Historian on a Sgt. Kingman who is had a shako very like that one.

Robt. Firth

[marlin teat]

Just to stir the puddin' a little...I believe Co. A (Rome Light Guards), 8th Georgia wore blue frocks and carried Windsors and wore english leathers and wore shakos at 1st Manassas.

[Craig L Barry]

Let's apply the British Standard Duck Test here. I.E. If a waterfowl looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck.

A good number of us believe this looks like a Brit soldier, and it certainly does to me, so I checked with fellow "Wearing the Gray" editor and professional researcher William O. Adams, who knows about such things...it is a Brit London Rifle Corps Volunteer.