12# Howitzer Ammo Box

[Dan Munson]

Hello --
A couple of us out here on the West Coast are looking to build some 12# (mountain) howitzer ammo boxes for static display at Ft. Tejon. Have located some pics of period 12# ammo boxes, but no exact construction specs. The mountain howitzer also appears to have had a "limber" chest that was long and narrow, holding one row of 12# cartridges. Pictures and specs on that chest -- or reference to where the info can be found -- would also be appreciated.
It occurs to us that the specs are likely in an early-war edition of the Ordnance Manual. If someone can point to an on-line copy of same (or even where a re-print can be had), that might help as well.
Any assistance in this direction would be appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[James Brenner]

Try the U.S. Army Field Artillery Museum at Fort Sill, OK. At one time they had reproduction copies of the Mordecai plates available. Even if the copies are no longer around, I imagine that they'd be willing to help.

By the way, it probably wouldn't hurt to mention the Ft. Tejon connection when you contact them.

[Pennvolunteer]

We can probably help you. We have a 12lb Mountain Howitzer that we use for the gun crew demos at Fort Sill, and lots of other resources in the FA Museum. Shoot me an email at frank.siltman@us.army.mil, and I'll forward it to the Fort Sill Museum curator, Towana Spivey.

[AZFarrier]

Dan I think I can help, Troy Groves gave me or rather loaned me some blue prints of I think an Ammo Box and Casson for a Mountain howitzer, to give to my brother. He does some black smith work on the side (you met him at FT Bowie). Any way I still have the prints. I'm sure it's OK with Troy but I'll still ask. PM me tomorrow and I'll see what I can do to get them to you.
Andy Miller
1st CAL Cav

P.S. How much pull do you have with FT Tejon? Troy and I were tossing around the idea of getting dimentions of the Pack saddle that holds the cannon I know FT Tejon has a display. We were thinking of putting together an Jack Ass Battery (Already told you I think) and just didn't get around to contact FT Tejon for the dimentions and details.

[Jeffrey Cohen]

I think it's great the way everyone out there pulls together to help each other out. My hat's off to you one and all.
Regards,
Jeffrey cohen

[Forquer]

Dan -

Haven't looked at my more current copies of the Ordnance Manual, but the 1850 manual is available online through a University of Michigan website called Making of America. Go to http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moa;cc=moa;q1=ordnance%20manual;rgn=full%20t ext;idno=AGY4347.0001.001;didno=AGY4347.0001.001;v iew=image;seq=00000284 . This opens up on page 260, Packing Field Ammunition. Instructions for packing boxes starts on page 261, with packing instructions specific to rounds for mountain howitzers on page 262.

Good hunting!

[Mbond057]

Dan,

Hello and Happy Holidays!

Steen Cannons has a picture of a Mountain Howitzer limber box on their website at:
http://www.steencannons.com/Thumbnails/Mt%20Ammo/mtammobx.htm

If you need detail drawings or wish to commission the building of MH limber box or MH limber I can recommend Spriks Cannon Works out of Mesa, AZ.
http://spriks-civil-war-cannon-sales.com/

Paul Spriks email address is sprikscannonworks@msn.com

I have a complete Mountain Howitzer limber and ammo boxes for my gun. I also have photos of my MH limber on my unit’s web page that you can view as a reference.

I hope this information helps you in your research. Good luck!

[AZFarrier]

My Apologies Dan I looked at the plans and they are of the limber and casson, not the box. So I can't really help.:confused_
Sorry.
Andy Miller
1st CAL Cav

[cannoneer]

Dan,
Per the 1861 Ordnance manual...
Packing boxes should be made of well seasoned stuff (generally white pine). 1.25 inch thick, dovetailed, with tenon on the ends. The top of the box is fastened with six 2 inch screws; the box has two handles of 1 3/4-inch rope, attached to the brackets at the ends.
The boxes are painted on the outside different colors, to indicate the contents of the box.
Shot is olive
Shell is black
Spherical case is red
Canister is light drab.

The kind of ammunition is marked on each end, in large white letters. The place and date of fabrication are on the inside cover.

Interior dimensions of the boxes are as follows in inches;
Length x width x depth
Shot, shell, case 27.5 X 9.25 X 8.5
Canister 27.5 X 9.25 X 9.5

The ammunition box would also contain 18 friction primers

The ammunition chest per the manual (page 75)
interior dimensions are as follows in inches;
Length x width x depth
32.8 X 4.75 X 9.35

From what I read about the thickness the rough thickness is 1.31 inches, which I would assume would plain down to 1.25.

Again, this is all from the 1861 ordnance manual.
Hope this helps...

under edit; I just got my copy of the ordnance manual from Fall Creek Sutler.

[AZReenactor]

Andy,
I was trying to find where I put those plans. They are actually for a Mountain Howitzer on a prairie carriage and limber. I believe Fort Tejon has a pack carriage.

Dan,
I've seen the plans for the pack carriage ammo chests and for a special cart that was designed to hold two of the chest back to back when not being packed. Pretty cool stuff. I'll see if I can track them down for you.

[Pvt Peck]

Dan:

Sounds like a neat project, Sean and I talked of how cool it would be to actually have the full "pack" set up for that gun. I can tell you it sure is fun to shoot too! Ask Sean how we were "hunting Otters" with it in Monterey a number of years ago. Please keep me posted on the project and if there is anything I can do to lend assistance.

Andy: I'd love to see you get a "Jackass" battery together, that would be first rate! Lets go chase some Piautes! Dan is good friends with Sean Malis at Tejon so he should have some pull with him.


Edward Parrott

[cplchrisv]

Dan maybe I can help. I am In the 1st Missouri light artillery and we have plans we obtained from an Ordinance Drawings vendor in Ft. Gratiot Michigan for the 12# Mountain Howitzer carriage, limber and ammunition box. They are on 11x17 sheets of paper and are copies of the actual plans for everything. They do not have a website but I will send you their info tomorrow as I left the info in my book at work.

trying to help

Qtrmstr Sgt Chris Vukovich
1st Missouri Light Artillery
Co. K

[Custerboy]

Dan I think I can help, Troy Groves gave me or rather loaned me some blue prints of I think an Ammo Box and Casson for a Mountain howitzer, to give to my brother. He does some black smith work on the side (you met him at FT Bowie). Any way I still have the prints. I'm sure it's OK with Troy but I'll still ask. PM me tomorrow and I'll see what I can do to get them to you.
Andy Miller
1st CAL Cav

P.S. How much pull do you have with FT Tejon? Troy and I were tossing around the idea of getting dimentions of the Pack saddle that holds the cannon I know FT Tejon has a display. We were thinking of putting together an Jack Ass Battery (Already told you I think) and just didn't get around to contact FT Tejon for the dimentions and details.


Looking for the same pack saddle plans for our cannon here at Ft. Humboldt. We will have to get a pack carriage to replace our prairie carriage as well.

Anyone need a prairie carriage?

[cplchrisv]

dan the name of the people with your plans are Antique Ordnance publishers

P.O. BOX 610434 PORT HURON, MICHIGAN PHONE 810 987-7749

THEY HAVE A 1 PAGE LISTING OF DRAWING NUMBERS, IF YOU GIVE ME A FAX OR ADDRESS I CAN SEND YOU ONE. THERE ARE PLANS FOR THE AMMO BOX ON A PACK CARRIAGE,1ST AND 2ND MODEL PRARIE CARRIAGES AND A LIMBER


HOPE THIS HELPS YOU CAN EMAIL ME AT CVUKOVICH@AOL.COM

Qtrmstr Sgt c vukovich
1st Missouri L.A.
Co K

[AZReenactor]

There is an old list of Antique Ordnance Publishing drawings online at http://lassengunsmithing.com/AOPCatalog.htm

[Light 6 Pdr]

The AOP Plans are really worth the price. You can get the same info from other sources, but the books Mr. Lutz makes are much easier to work with. If for no other reason the drawings are larger and eaiser to read. He has taken the information from the Mordechai drawings, Artillery for the Land Service of the United States.

The mountain howitzer is a really neat piece. I have had 3 different ones, an Iron brass plated one with a 3" bore, a full bored bronze one from Cannons on Line and I currently have a Steen tube, bronze full bore. All of them have been on 1st model Prairie Carriages. Whay are you getting rid of your Prairie Carriage? The Federal government bought more Prairie carriages than pack. The prairie Carriage sits the tube up higher so you can stand to serve the pice, with the pack carriage you all but have to kneel down to serve it. In transportation the Prairie carriage is far more mobile and stable. I have made limbers and a Prairie Caisson for them as well. It is really cool. These were common during the war, but I know of only one other reproduction. It has 4 ammo boxes each holding 8 Rds. They are the same boxes as the Pack ones, but the pack chains are omitted and stays are added to hold it to the Limber or caisson. Tehre is also a implement box that is Parallel to the axle. The whole package, caisson, limber for caisson and limber for howizer you would have 64 Rds total.
For the Pack carriage there are 5 animals per piece, 1 for the tube, one for the carriage and 3 carrying ammunition boxes. I know everyone says 3, but that would only give you 16 Rds per piece. The Ordnance manual lists a battery being 6 Pcs, 36 Ammunition boxes, 33 horses or mules.
As an aside, shooting the Mountain Howitzer is really a hoot! It will recoil 15-25 feet depending on the ground etc. Canister recoils the most, but is really impressive. For Solid shot, the Muzzle velocity is only 600 FPS so you can see the round really well.
I have made several Mountain Howitzer carriages. I can supply one for $5000 if you are interested. Price for the Pack or Prairie Carriage is the same. I also offer implements, sabots shooting accesories etc. I can send you a catalog. Just email me.

Take care,
Steve Cameron
Light 6 Pdr
Burrough's Battery
akm556@aol.com