SC Early War Accouterments?

[sepoy1857]

Hello
Does anyone reproduce specifically SC state issue accouterments like cartridge boxes, cap pouches, etc?

What style/pattern of haversack and canteen were issued most commonly in 61/62? I mean pattern not material. ie Moses Alexander haversack, etc. I'm guessing a flat sided tin drum canteen with a webbing sling and a plain white cotton haversack would be correct?

Are there any opinions on the most common color of leather equipment? Black, brown, or oiled? Are all acceptable?

I'm looking into the 14th and 16th Regiments specifically, but I haven't been able to find anything specific. Any input is very much appreciated. THANKS!

[btfire]

deleted this, meant to send PM...
Brian McGarrahan

[Iron Scout]

Brian,

No reason to send a PM if you've got information to share. Without writing a dissertion, most early war SC accoutrements conformed to the Federal pattern with either a SC plate or a black roller buckle belt. Details are completely CS though with the usual lead finials, etc. A CS copy of the 1839 box is always a good choice. Brad Malone does make a nice copy of the Robert Johnson cap box housed at the Relic Room along with other items. SC plates have been dug as far as Miss when the 10th/19th Sc were out there in 1862. Most ordnance records show tim drum canteens being purchased from Charleston contractors. Haversack are tricky with the only known SC "pattern" being the Yancey Dean haversack at the State Museum. Let me see if I can pull some images to post when time permits.

Neill Rose
PLHA

[Iron Scout]

Here's a few images for you. No 1861-62 uniform is complete without a nice SC issue frock! The haversack is the Dean model as possibly issued by the Beech Island Ladies Assoc. in 1861. The box is perfect CS construction! The belt is a neat item but most ordnance documents point to black roller buckle belts as stated. Hope this helps.

Neill Rose
PLHA

[Iron Scout]

Scott,

Just a few early SC images. These cannot be reproduced but can give you a feeling of the wide variety of uniforms at least. The first is the Richland Rifles, 1st SC in their hunting frocks. All accoutements appear to be black. The other is the "Beardless Club" c. 1862. The last image details a nice frock with black skirt trimming and a huge woven palmetto on the gentleman's cap. Enjoy.

Neill Rose
PLHA

[mnreb]

Neil.
Just have to jump in here and say thanks for the pics. Through all of my research I had not seen them. Thanks again.

Scott.
I am part of the 1st South Carolina Volunteers. I use a 1837 cartridge box, and Confederate cap pouch. Saw a picture of a captured one from near the end of the war and that made up my mind to go with that one. As far as a haversack goes, another member of our unit saw a letter that stated that all of theirs was tarred. I wear a larger (I assume it was hand made by the looks of it) with a handmade tarred sling. I also use the roller belt. I am in the process of saving up for a quality tin drum canteen. I have also read, but can't remember where that they might have used English leathers as well. Wish I could remember. Might have to write stuff down from now on. Hope this helps.
Sincerely,
William Feucthenberger
Co.H
1st South Carolina Volunteers - Maxey Gregg's/McGowan's Brigade

[sepoy1857]

Gentlemen,

A hearty Thank You! to one and all your input is very much appreciated.

Neill: Your pictures are superb and a very good resource. I wish someone like Don Smith (http://www.trans-mississippi.com/cartbox.html) (Trans Mississippi Depot) would reproduce that haversack, but he does a nice 1839 cartridge box.

The frock coat in the third picture looks a lot like the one that Nick ************ (http://www.nj************.com//OSCommerce/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=106&osCsid=817649de28877f6b90507acf76e830ab) makes (his is based on an original in a SC Museum - but I don't know which one).

Which sling would you suggest for the 1839 box? Originally it would have had the white buff sling with Eagle Breastplate. US rough out black; narrow Southern manufacture black; white webbing; Tarred/painted?

William and Brian: Thanks a lot guys - very helpful input as well.

Brian: Both regiments were initially on the coast; the 14th went to Va. with Maxy Gregg's Brigade and remained with the ANV for the entire war. The 16th (from the "Dark Corner") went west to Mississippi under States Rights Gist along with the 24th SC and two Ga. regiments (56th ? and 8th Bttn.; and Furguson's Btty.) and stayed with the AOT until the end of the war. They were practically wiped out at Franklin.

[3alabama]

Check out this box that sold on Old South Military Antiques. ID'd SC used box
http://www.oldsouthantiques.com/os933p1.htm

[oldsecesh]

I contacted Don Smith yesterday, about the possibility of making up a copy of the Yancey Dean SC haversack. He responded that he will look into this to see if he can get more information (specs) on it and if so, may happen.

[sepoy1857]

Hi Jim

You read my mind. Thanks! That sounds like a deal to me, know all we need is some way to get him a drawing or measurements/specs. I went to the Museum in Greenville (http://www.confederatemuseum.org/) when I lived there, but I have never been to the Museum in Charleston.

John:

Thanks! Very interesting pics.

[Eureka Independent]

Hi All,

As Jim Michum mentioned. I am looking into making the haversack. I sent Neil a PM asking for his help.

Depending if the Museum is willing to allow information to be used for a marked repro of the haversack ( Each Museum around the country has its own rules regarding reproductions) This repro may or may not happen.

Stay tuned, hopefully there will be a repro of this wonderful haversack done. Wether Trans-Mississippi Depot is the one to repro it, or another repros it. It would be great to have another documented CS haversack out there.

All the best

Don S

[sepoy1857]

Hi All,

As Jim Michum mentioned. I am looking into making the haversack. I sent Neil a PM asking for his help.

Depending if the Museum is willing to allow information to be used for a marked repro of the haversack ( Each Museum around the country has its own rules regarding reproductions) This repro may or may not happen.

Stay tuned, hopefully there will be a repro of this wonderful haversack done. Wether Trans-Mississippi Depot is the one to repro it, or another repros it. It would be great to have another documented CS haversack out there.

All the best

Don S

That would be great! Thank you sir. It would be nice to have another choice for a CS haversack, and especially a SC haversack.

[SCTiger]

Not an accoutrement but, I would like to see the J. T. Moore cotton trousers on page 152 in EOG, Confederate, reproduced. The book states that they are in the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, Virginia. Quote from the book.

"Made from cotton jean cloth woven in Spartanburg, South Carolina, these light blue trousers were worn by a soldier named J. T. Moore. In the early days of the War, work-style trousers such as these were frequently issued to, or purchased by, soldiers in volunteer units."

I am sure there are other examples of early war SC equipment in various museums across the country. Of course I would like to see more of it reproduced, but I am sort of biased.

Of course I would want a haversack too.

[mnreb]

I have a pair of those trousers and are they comfortable. It is like wearing air. Look nice too.
William Feucthenberger
Co.H
1st South Carolina Volunteers

[Iron Scout]

Greg and everyone else,

There's lots of existing CS items out there; it just takes the effort to see them. I'm glad everyone enjoyed the images too. I try to document every item I look at. I'm always amazed the detail I miss until I review the pics.

Anyway, most early SC issued accoutrements were black per the state's request(s) from contractors. SC plates were plentiful too. Please reference the McRae folder but English goods were coming into Charleston very early.

The Yancy Dean haversack, as I've relayed to Mr. Smith, is a little problematic regarding production. The item is a family loan to the institution so permission has to be gotten from both parties. I'll work on it and we'll see what happens. Part of the proceeds need to go to the McRae Papers purchase though.

Anyway, early SC issue is really quite easy. Look forward to continuing this discussion.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA

[SCSecesh]

I'm late to the party here but these may be of interest.
I've spent a little time looking up info on Yancey Dean and this SC haversack. Here's what I think I know:


The original haversack is entirely hand sewn; made from a double layer of cotton drill with a plain weave cotton strap 47” long. There is evidence that a closure was present at some point in the bags history due to the remains of the attachments on the flap and bottom of the bag (as may be seen in picture 3).
Yancey Dean enlisted at Edgefield, SC in Gary’s Watson Guards which became Co. B of Hampton’s Legion where he was eventually promoted to 4th Sergeant. The Watson Guards were mustered into Confederate service on June 12, 1861. Dean was severely wounded in the arm and thigh at the Battle of Seven Pines, June 1, 1862 and his arm was amputated. After he was discharged, he entered the SC Military Academy (The Arsenal Academy) and was detailed to the QM Dept. after the evacuation of Columbia. Yancey Dean died in 1934.
While no positive provenance exists to the haversacks beginnings, Ron Field’s book on Hampton’s Legion states that the Watson Guards received 102 haversacks from the Beech Island Ladies Volunteer Society in July 1861. The heavy, durable construction of the bag and what may be blood stains, along with Dean’s short service period could mean this bag was one of that issue.

Dean's wounds have at least three different stories surrounding them. It seemed to me that a Malvern Hill incident was correct (as opposed to Gaines Hill as is reported at the SCMI Arsenal Academy accounts) and a miread on my part reinforced the Malvern Hill account. That misread was of a letter from James B. Griffin's account dated June 2nd, 1862 that I read as July 2nd, 1862.
Griffin was writing immediately after the Battle as indicated by the tagline that states: Head Qtrs of the Legion, Bivouac in the Woods, June 2nd, 1862. He states " I had command of the Legion and was in front of the Brigade. As soon as I reached the field I got into the fight and the hottest kind of one. The Enemy were in a woods behind which was a battery, which was raking our men at a great rate. . . . Our Loss was fearful -- My command was cut up terribly -- We suffered by far more than any of the rest -- I went into the fight with about 350 men and lost in killed and wounded and missing 154 men -- All this was done within one hour and a half. . . . Yancey Dean was shot in the arm and leg, had to have his arm amputated."
Griffin was a neighbor of the Dean family in Edgefield, SC.

[CSchneider]

Greg,

The J.T. Moore (or T.J., as I know whatever EOG calls him is wrong, but I don't have it in front of me) trousers are definitely an interesting piece of material culture. I was examining the MOC's collection of homespun fabric samples and took a look at those trousers as well. They are definitely not your plain old jeancloth, but have a noticeable checked pattern woven into them, similar to, but not quite a "log cabin" pattern. They are also almost the exact same cut as what some refer to as the "Richmond Depot" pattern. Plenty of wear on the knees and seat too.

-Craig Schneider