Frock Coats for Federal Impression

[mattifatti]

I was hoping some of you more knowledgable people could help me out. I am looking to get a frock coat for the After the Battle event in Nov. but am striking out when I look at the various sutlers in the Approved Vendors section of this site. Could somebody send me in the right direction for getting a good quality federal frock? Also, does anybody know if there will be any upcoming "deals" for those going to this event?
Thanks,

[KevinBarnes]

I was hoping some of you more knowledgable people could help me out. I am looking to get a frock coat for the After the Battle event in Nov. but am striking out when I look at the various sutlers in the Approved Vendors section of this site. Could somebody send me in the right direction for getting a good quality federal frock? Also, does anybody know if there will be any upcoming "deals" for those going to this event?
Thanks,

Nick ************ makes some really nice frock coats.
http://www.nj************.com/OSCommerce/catalog/

[LibertyHallVols]

This was asked recently...
http://authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14094

I would also add County Cloth to that list.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

For the record, the sponsors are not planning any Federal "bully buys" for "After the Battle". Most of the kit is pretty ordinary and common among reenactors, and for those who don't have a frock coat, a bully buy could be organized, but participation a "bulk buy" where the price tag would probably be $400 per jacket would likely not be numerous, and many makers want a minimum number of orders for such a deal.

We ran a "bulk buy" on New York State jackets for Payne's Farm 2005 and got about 25 orders through it, but the price was a very-reasonable $190 per jacket.

[mattifatti]

Thanks Kevin, I remembered seeing that particular bulk buy which made me hope for another one this time BUT I do understand your point. Thanks to all who replied. I will look into those vendors that were suggested.

[DannyJoe]

Matt,
I just ordered a Federal frock for the Antietam event from Don Smith at TMD. In my search for a vendor, I found that some do not like making Federal frocks. I also found that most vendors have a long delivery time, so if you need a Federal frock for 2008, I highly recommend that you order one ASAP.
Regards,

[mattifatti]

Ido intend on placing an order after I do a little more research. I noticed on the Authentic Campaigner's website that they reccomend Jarnigan for some goods and I noticed on that website that they have focks. Anybody have any input on this?

[LibertyHallVols]

I would direct you to the thread I linked in my previous post for quality Fed frock coats. Several highly skilled craftsmen are listed and they do excellent work!

Jarnagin made some efforts some years ago to improve their leather goods (that is another discussion). However, to my knowledge, no corresponding effort was made in their clothing line.

For those looking for bargain-priced goods, I would recommend against doing so when it comes to your coat... ANY coat. Your coat and your hat are the most visible parts of your impression. Deficiences in quality/authenticity will be on full display.

[federal_musician]

Quote from a previous message:
"I just ordered a Federal frock for the Antietam event from Don Smith at TMD. In my search for a vendor, I found that some do not like making Federal frocks. I also found that most vendors have a long delivery time, so if you need a Federal frock for 2008, I highly recommend that you order one ASAP.
Regards,
__________________
Dan McGraw"


Is there any knowledge as to why vendors do not like making Federal frock coats? It would seem that based on the price they ask, it would be one of the items that bring in the most money.


Frank Long

[gfchhdgf]

Long story short, the amount of time and handiwork that goes into a frock hardly accounts for the price vendors charge. When all is said and done, many of them are getting per hour less than minimum wage in making a frock. Relative to other products it is one of the highest dollar items one may ever purchase but when you look at all the work that goes into one compared to other items, its far more hassle when I assume that not everyone on this board is in the position to run out and buy one of these coats at the drop of a hat creating a small market for this product. This may be why many don't enjoy making them. Just my .02 though, as always I could be way off.

[DannyJoe]

Frank,
I think that Charlie nailed the reason why some vendors do not like to make Federal frocks. Yes, a quality Federal frock is expensive, but I do not think that vendors are getting rich making them. It is a lot of work and the material is expensive also. Common enlisted CS frocks do not normally require the investment in time, labor and materials that an enlisted Federal frock requires. Therefore, CS frocks are made by more vendors and usually cost less.
Regards,

[Dan Wambaugh]

Fellows:

An excerpt from a post I made last February:

"It seems with federal frocks that designers decided to incorporate every one of the most difficult features used in period garment construction just to make things difficult, and what is more hid most of these things on the inside so you couldn't see them when the coat is being worn!

I've talked about this before but it may have been lost in the crash. Federal frocks are one of those items that should always be priced above $500. I estimate that they take approximately 30-35 hours to produce, have around $125.00 into materials, leaving around $375.00 to actually be made for their production. This figures to between $10.71-$12.50 per hour for constructing the most difficult standard issue item used in the war!

The bottom line is treasure those vendors willing to make an accurate reproduction of this garment, it is truly a labor of love!"


Best Regards,

[CJDaley]

I've taken on promises to make a few of these coats for guys in the ONV and SGLHA for the Antietam event. Those guys will get a top notch coats, but the market just isn't there for any of use to go into full production.

As Dan pointed out, they take about a full work week to produce and I pay upwards of $75 for imported broadcloth...given the current market in the hobby, there aren't too many guys who are willing to wait a year for a good coat and then have to pay $600.00+ on top of the wait.

The only way to counter the wait/cost problem is to cut corners by buying cheaper fabric, spending less time on the details, or less time on the patterns...the AC Vendors here like Dan and I just aren't willing to go that route.

[LibertyHallVols]

I think it was Shaker Village, 2000... Mark Mason showed up wearing a jacket made by cutting the skirt off of a Fed frock. Knowing the work that goes into making a Federal Frock, my jaw about hit the ground!!

Seriously, though. A properly made reproduction of a Federal enlisted frock coat is one of the neatest "widgets" available in the hobby. The degree of difficulty mentioned by Dan and Chris have a lot to do with that.

[Randy]

As a federal registrant, here's a thought: Shouldn't the federals be wearing greatcoats? I mean, this is after the battle, correct? At any rate, every visual and literary account I've seen concerning the federals during the December 1862 campaign has them in greatcoats. For those who are concerned it might be too warm during the day in November for greatcoats it doesn't necessarily mean that frock coats or sack coats should be worn in addition to greatcoats, either. A good warm shirt worn under the greatcoat could suffice, no? Overnight don't forget blankets and spooning to keep warm. I'm just trying to get an accurate picture of what the federal pickets would have looked like immediately following the battle of Fredericksburg.
Any feedback?

[RJSamp]

If you have a Federal impression and don't own the standard issued items, my feelings are that you are short on the impression. Their shouldn't be any need for 'preferred' multiple choice items for the 200th Indiana Company Q at the battle of Shirkersville. You simply pull out the documented uniform and go to the event. Why we can't pull off a Dress Parade at a specific event is beyond my ken, likewise a 2nd Wisconsin/Regulars impression, or a cold weather portrayal. Having seen enough BROWN Hardee hats during the last ten years I really wonder how commited we are to getting past the gear and into the other parts of the triad.

Sack Coat, Frock Coat, Great Coat: STANDARD ISSUE. Documented. Every couple of years when they start fading, changing colors, become worn, etc. get a new one. If you are wearing the same sack coat today that you wore to Outpost 2000, something is wrong. Hardee Hats were BLACK, not faded into brown.

Be nice or this entire post will disappear. First and last warning. Jim Kindred Moderator

[Moose]

Randy --

While you are correct that this event is taking place "in December," and if you have an overcoat you should bring, I would not recomend wearing only your overcoat and a heavy shirt in liue of a uniform coat. If you are asking because you don't have a frock coat, then wear your fatigue blouse, it says in the event regs. that the fatigue blouse is an acceptable alternative to the frock coat. But I have never heard of enlisted men putting their uniform coat in storage and just wearing their overcoat.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

[RudyN]

I am glad I bought my Frock Coat a couple of years ago from Jersey Skillet Licker. It is well made and authentic (as near as I can tell).

[Randy]

Men, :)
I think RJ and Moose have misinterpretted my question. I actually have two frock coats as well as a greatcoat. I'm just putting the notion out there that maybe the federals who have greatcoats should wear them for this one. I think it would be authentic to see a lot of feds wearing them.

Any more feedback?

[bhutton]

Hello Matt,

FYI I bought an excellant Frock from N******a last year, it was produced in 5 weeks, an excellent Frock. see you there.

[Moose]

Randy,
I agree that the "battle" being depicted was in December, therefore we should see greatcoats. That being said, an individual will wear what is comfortable to them at any given time during the event, and not wearing/bringing your issue frock coat or fatigue blouse and wearing a heavier shirt under a greatcoat because the weather may not warrent the wearing of a greatcoat 100% of the time, I feel should not be investigated. If it is too warm for your greatcoat, fold it up, and put it in your knapsack.

Cheers,

[Charles Heath]

Danger: This has nothing to do with frock coats, dress coats, or hula hoops.

Oh, sure, it could be 70 degrees at night, with scantily clad native girls serving you sweet little umbrella drinks under the balmy palm tree ringed skies of the Old Dominion, but don't count on it.

Allow me to dispense a clue about the pure pleasure of wearing a comfy great coat at 3:30 a.m., in mid-November, near Fredericksburg, Va., whilst standing in the NW quadrant of a half mile square wind swept field with practially zero vegetation above mid-calf on the north, east, and south sides. Insert sound effect of howling gale here. Considering this is October, and the event is in November, this week is also a darn good time to poke around in the gear pile in the closet to find that oh-so-kewl scarf and maybe those mittens or gloves, because when The Hawk is blowing down on your frosted little hoohooh, it's a little late to find your gear, and I'll add that a sleeping cap is a wonderumus thing.

If you don't have a greatcoat, then consider wrapping a blanket around your shivering bod, or using as gum blanket as a windbreaker. These things work now just as they did back then, and remember that dry extra shirt in your knapsack is a good undershirt or overshirt as the case may be. Wearing a cotton shirt from home under an issue shirt from Uncle Sam is a great way to add warmth, but you guys already knew this.

"Take care of your gear, and your gear will take care of you." - Captain Obvious.

[ley74]

FYI - I prefer the native girls.