NCO chevrons

[KentuckyReb]

I was wondering if anyone here could give me a little help here regarding my stripes (congratulate me, y'all :cool: ). I assume such things were pretty well standardized in the Federal service, but I was wondering what the general 'rule' of things was in the Confederate armies. My question is, what would be the correct dimensions (tip to tip, correct angle, width) of non-commisioned officer chevrons? What I'm going with so far is that they were more often put on separately, not in 'sets', and that black would be the best color for a Western Confederate impression. I also would appreciate it if anyone could tell me what the most common (if there was such a thing among W. Confederates) material would be, and if there is a source for it today. I appreciate any help.

[msmjr]

A fellow Corporal...or a Private with cloth on his sleeves as I get called from time to time.

If you look at CS NCO photos, there isn't really a consistent "regulation" being followed. Even more complicated, what few things WERE written down as regulation depended upon the State. For that matter, you can go all over the spectrum by reading things (for example, Company Aytch) that mention NCOs ripping off their stripes so as not to be targets.

Without getting terribly technical (which I assume is your real desire) I would say that you do have some latitude in your decision on where to wear, how to wear, and what to wear.

I use black worsted wool tape from Wooded Hamlet (http://www.woodedhamlet.com/tapes_braids/worsted_twill.html) and apply them directly to my coat sleeve individually. The material comes to Wooded Hamlet from England (so it isn't a USA made product, sorry) but from the old A/C forums, this seemed to be a recommended material.

Hope that is helpful.

-Mike Montgomery

[markj]

Greetings,

"Regulations for the Army of the Confederate States, 1863.":

[Para.] 1529. [p. 406]: The rank of non commissioned officers will be marked by chevrons on both sleeves of the uniform coat and the overcoat, above the elbow, of silk and worsted binding, half an inch wide; color the same as the edging of the coat; points down, as follows:

1530. For a Sergeant Major--three bars and an arc in silk.
1531. For a Quartermaster Sergeant--three bars and a tie in silk.
1532. For an Ordnance Sergeant--three bars and a star in silk.
1533. For a First (or Orderly) Sergeant--three bars and a lozenge in worsted [wool].
1534. For a Sergeant--three bars in worsted.
1535. For a Corporal--two bars in worsted.

The above was what was said. However, the sky was the limit for what was actually done. For example, one or more surviving RD jackets sport sergeants stripes made out of black velvet.

Regards,

Mark D. Jaeger

[Clark Badgett]

Sam Watkins said they removed their stripes at the hint of the first battle. Of cource that may be something he wrote after a good spell of years. That beings said, in all the photos of Cornfed prisoners I've ever seen I've yet to see any that have any chevrons. I've also not seen any requisitions for stuff to use as stripes, but I've not see everything if fact I've not seen much ;) My advice woud be to find some black twill tape, either wool or cotton and only put the stripes on early war stuff.

[KentuckyReb]

Thank you much, gents. I had some 1/2" black wool worsted tape that I went over and bummed off Mom (my Mom is the world's biggest craft nut), but I just wanted to make sure before I started sewing. Ah, man. Spring's almost here--can't wait to get underway again. Thanks again all.

[Amtmann]

Why not just leave them off?

[Alamo Guard]

Houston Depot did issue the block stripes to men in the Trans-Mississippi. Alot depends on the time of the war for stripes as well. As the war progressed wool was very scarce. The color also varied as the war progressed from black to sky blue for infantry for example. Stripes in southern service are like they said over done today.
I do have stripes on some of my uniforms but not all of them. It makes it easier to change back and forth scenerio dependent. If your in camp or preparing for inspection or maybe a living history wear stripes. If your on the march ready to feel the lead fly, lose the stripes.
Im also in the Army of Tennessee and wear black cotton twill. Not alot of extra wool for stripes for mid war. Another option might just be cut cotton flannel to the appropriate length, as there was alot of that to be had. Another option might be the quartermaster only had red arty stripes available and they were issued. Or as a last resort captured federal. However id avoid the last two for two reasons, documented proof and over indulgance by a unit on this option.
If you ever galvanize and need stripes take the extra change out of your couch and get some Chris Daley stripes, well worth the extra expense.

[Calico Boys]

Chums,

I have done a search on the forum and came up with nothing. What I am looking for is photo's of NCO's wearing diminished or altered rank on their sleeves. I remember about 4 years ago, there was a photo posted on here of a Sgt with really small chevrons on his coat, and another of an orderly sgt with just the diamond on his coat. Anyhow if anyone has copies of these photo's or others like it please post them on here.

I have always been a supporter of the late war impression of officers and NCO's using a different form of rank on their coats. And the more pictures of this would be better, most photo's are studio shots so its hard to grasp the field look of the officer or NCO. Anyhow thanks in advance.

[Swag]

Here is a photo of what I believe you are looking for, I remembered seeing it while looking at some things on the LOC, and took some time to dig it up again. The first sergent all the way on the left has only the dimond, not the stripes. Any how hope this helps a bit. The picture it self is from August of 64' Taken in Petersburg. Here is the link to the page it self http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?cwar:46:./temp/~ammem_PG90::

http://memory.loc.gov/service/pnp/cwpb/03700/03767v.jpg

Respectfully Yours,
Sean M. Lamb
H.I.A

[1stMaine]

Comrades,

Nice picture. You'll note, however, that the NCO's appear to have trouser stripes, regardless of the type insignia being worn.......

Keep in mind, also, that although photographic evidence exists showing these "reduced" ranks, such as the diamond, vice the entire 1st Sgt's insignia, there may be other reasons for it's use than simply reducing the ability of the enemy to identify NCO's.

Being advanced to a new spot while on campaign is one reason, where the availability of new rank is not always easy. There exists, and some examples were posted on this forum in the past, orders requiring NCO's to make proper chevrons from old trouser or overcoat material if they could not be obtained through normal channels, and this was also in 1864. Trouser stripes could be made from old coats, etc.

Again, I would place this sort of thing into the date/unit specific portrayal. Yeah, it's neat, and something that WAS done, but was also outside the norm. How relative it is to the impression required at a specific event can only be confirmed through research on the units to be portrayed.

Respects,

[Justin Runyon]

Here are two that I have cabbaged on to.

[Calico Boys]

Sean,

Thats the photo I found on the LOC which got me thinking about this again.

Justin,

Those are some of the photo's I was talking about. There's still one out there with an NCO with stripes on that are the size of modern military stripes. I have never seen anything like it before, and wish I had copied it when I had the chance.

thanks,

[ScottCross]

Casey,

Here's an odd ball one for you from the Oshkosh Public Museum: Full standing view of Sergeant John Braun, Company E, 26th Wisconsin Infantry taken in gallery, probably at end of war in Milwaukee, Braun wears an enlistedman's fatigue blouse with unusually small sergeant's chevron on right sleeve only which is upside down, his coat has been altered by adding two pockets to the front below the waist and adding an opening on the outside to the left breast pocket, he also wears light blue trousers with dark blue sergeants stripes on the outer seams. He is also wearing a so-called "Army of Georgia" Pin on his right breast. He enlisted from Fond du Lac as a corporal on August 15, 1862, Fought at Chancellorsville and captured at Gettysburg, promoted to sergeant, participated in Atlanta Campaign, March to the Sea, and Carolina Campaign, mustered out with the regiment on June 13, 1865.

[Calico Boys]

Scott,

Being this is the second immage of this type, do you think this was more common than we think? I know from looking at several clothing vouchers for the 33rd Mass, 107th NY and 86th NY, that the NCO's were recieving X number of yards of tape trim for their NCO stripes ( but not enough for trousers) that maybe some of them made the stripes smaller. Now I do believe this would have been more common on campaigns like Atlanta or Petersburg, just wondering to what extent.

Thanks for the immage though, its definately different.

[Charles Heath]

I have done a search on the forum and came up with nothing. What I am looking for is photo's of NCO's wearing diminished or altered rank on their sleeves.

Studio gangstas? ;)

If you happen to run across an image of Edward White, Co. F, 11th NJVI, in the back of Marbaker's regimental, check out the solid diamond on his one visible sleeve, and straps on his shoulders. He was promoted to 1st Sgt. on 1 July 1864, and to 2nd Lt. on 23 October 1864, so this image may have been taken with a bit of "transition" in mind. Also, the jacket in the image appears to be a private purchase type, but the combination of rank insignia is interesting to note.

[theknapsack]

Here's a good one. This is the 149th PA, Co. D, at Petersburg. Note that the NCO's are all wearing NCO belts rather than stripes (or a combination of both).

[Burpyturtle]

Cool picture. But I like it for the extended length sack coats on the soldier next to the officer and on the end on the viewer's right. 4 and 5 buttons fronts on those jackets, and is that an exterior breast pocket?

Check the styles and colors of hats. And look at the majority of the stand collars are worn turned down as roll collars.

Cody Hauser

[crabby]

Casey,

Braun wears an enlistedman's fatigue blouse with unusually small sergeant's chevron on right sleeve only .

Scott, etal,

He may very well have stripes on the other sleeve, with the small size and the angle of his arm we may never know.

Crabby

[ThehosGendar]

Ahoy!

I remember posting that message, with the tiny chevrons...

There are several more images of 1st Sergeants with the lozenge only I'll to dig up, as well as the one of the microscopic chevrons. Give me until this afternoon to wrassle 'em out of my overflowing hardrive.

[billwatson]

Speaking philosophically, if we all start wearing lozenge-only, will we be doing it just because it's kyewl? Rather than because it's underrepresented?

Reduced rank insignia for officers seems to have been more widespread, so when many of us started going to that we moved toward a better representation of history. Reduced rank for first sergeants really does seem to have been an exception rather than an underrepresented norm.

[Calico Boys]

Bill,

I feel it may have been more widespread, but only during a certain period, such as the Atlanta Campaign, or the Petersburg Campaign. This period of the war, is also when you started to see more officers not wearing rank, or wearing diminished rank. The Bucktail Photo, and the 1st Photo of the Cav guys, many of the NCO's have no rank at all on their coats, they are just wearing the belts. You see alot of images of NCO's with no stripes on with just a belt, and trouser stripe. The only reason I checked into it, I was talking with some guys in my group about it, but couldnt find the image I was looking for.

[billwatson]

Gotcha.

I much enjoy the Atlanta/Carolinas Campaign events down South where fellows embrace the order that went out directing the troops to show appropriate stripes even if they had to cut up discarded trousers to do it.

[Calico Boys]

Charles,

I cant remember where I saw it, but I do remember reading about an NCO who was promoted to LT, and was wearing his enlisted frock for his officers coat. Not sure if he had both the stripes and shoulder straps on it though. But this would be the exception rather than the rule. If I recall he was promoted during the campaign, so there was no time to get custom officer gear.

[ScottCross]

The image of Sergeant Braun has a ghost on the back where an Internal Revenue stamp had once been, which indicates late war. He is also wearing, what I have termed, an Army of Georgia Badge on his blouse (see my article in MC&H Magazine). These badges only show up about the time of the Grand Review and have the Corps insignia of the units in the Army of Georgia on them. Other images in this collection were taken in Milwaukee when the men returned home. Braun was a veteran of the Carolina Campaign, which is possibly when the NCOs were wearing reduced chevrons. Yes, there may be a chevron on his left arm, but it is almost impossible to tell the way he is turned.

Army of Georgia Badge worn by James F. Sawyer. Residence as Gibraltar, Door County, WI when he enlisted there on Mar. 28, 1864. He was assigned as a private in Company K, 21st Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry and was wounded at Savannah, Georgia. He was transferred as unassigned to the 3rd (reorganized.) Regiment, Wisconsin Volunteer Infantry on June 8, 1865 and was mustered out on July 18, 1865.:

[17th Mo Inf]

Pards,

I have recently been asked to serve as corporal of my company and I'm just about to began sewing my chevrons on, but I was hopeing someone could point me in the right direction for the correct placement of them; As I have wondered: Is there anywhere that states the correct distance above the elbow and down from the shoulder for the chevrons to be placed?? All I could find as of late was the U.S. regulations saying:

"1549. The rank of non-commissioned officers will be marked by chevrons upon both sleeves of the uniform coat and overcoat, above the elbow, "

So am I to understand that you just sew them on above the elbow?? or is there any more specific distance...was just wondering and hoping for some useful input....

Thanks,

Jacob Thompson

[markj]

Hi Jacob,

Here's a suggestion: open up some coffee-table Civil War books and look for images of corporals.

You will quickly find that, when it came to placement of NCO stripes, there was often significant variation from one individual to another.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Curt Schmidt]

Hallo!

Agreed.
Look at some period images and then decide what "strikes you fancy" and copy that placement.
For me personally, I always put the point of the chevron at the "height" of my elbow bone. Not that "one" location is necessarily more historically correct than another height, (within historical extremes) it is just a look I like from among a number of "period correct options."
(I "like" the "lower" look myself.... but it can depend upon the proportions of one's arm bones and the "length" of the coat sleeves...) ;)

Curt

[17th Mo Inf]

Pards,

Thanks for the input,and ideas. I'm almost ashamed since I did look prior to posting at most of my civil war books and references looking at thier placement on period images of NCOs, but this was just something that came to my mind and caused me to wonder if it was by regulation or personal preferance .....Thanks to both of you for adding to this and sheading more light on the chevrons possible placement for me....

Y.O.S.

Jacob Thompson

[Rob]

My rule of thumb is to hold my arm straight down at my side, bend the forearm forward 90 degrees (level with the ground) and measure two fingers' width up from the point of the elbow. The chevrons are lined up with the back seam of the sleeve.

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Photos tell a lot. They, like knowledge, "are good".

(With a nod to the inscription at the bottom of the statue of Faber, at the college that bears his name.)

[jtp 61]

I have been searching for an answer to the reason behind the two different styles of chevrons (elliptical and straight). I've heard that only the Volunteer units were issues the elliptical pattern, but I don't know how much validity is behind that. Photo references show many varying units and time periods having the elliptical, yet the straight V is almost the only style I see at reenactments. Just the fact that CJ Daley carries the elliptical style points to the elliptical being more authentic. Could anyone shed some light on the subject?

[DJCasey]

Keep looking at the photos, you're on the right track. You will find that chevrons came in a variety of shapes and sizes.

[John Legg]

Here are some photos i found on google.

Here is Andrew Jackson Smith. He recieved the Medal of Honor. His chevrons look like they are straight.

4843


And here is a very interesting original pair of Corporal Chevrons...

4844

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

John, do you have any documentation or provenance on those corporal chevrons? Those have the appearance of military academy chevrons. I would be very much interested in knowing more about those .

[John Legg]

This is what is says on the website.

6” wide, 8 ¼” high. Dark navy stripes on cadet grey wool backing (bluish grey). Exactly as used on several state jackets of the early militia entering the War – New York as one good example. Excellent condition, though both have a few small moth holes. Upon closer examination, the two are not exactly the same, though I’m convinced they were on the same jacket. These came together with other related material about 35 years ago, and I had them in storage with much inactive inventory until we opened it up when we recently moved the business, and I retired. I attribute the minute differences on these chevrons to the fact that they were the product of a room full of ladies, turning out all manner of stuff on their treadle sewing machines – each item essentially hand made. Thus, each would have minute variations. I am entirely convinced that this is a pair, used together, and that they are together because they came off the same coat. I am confident when you see these in person, you will be convinced they are a pair, and will appreciate seeing the slight variations that came from a routine wartime contract.

http://www.andersonmilitaria.com/Web_Pages/insignia/insignia.htm


They may not be Corporal chevrons, but they do have the elliptical shape. Just using them as an example.

John

[NC1862]

They kind of resemble the chevrons worn by Citadel Cadets. Notice the Corporal on the far left.

[GreencoatCross]

I'm not sure that there is a definite preference as to who was issued what kind style of chevron. The argument of elliptical chevrons issued to volunteers versus straight chevrons issued to Regulars is, in my opinion, absurd. There are definitely some factors at play here though such as wether or not a soldier made the chevrons himself or what kind of chevrons the sutler he bought them from made.

Of the hundred or so original garments I've seen only about 15 or so had NCO chevrons but of those there was nearly an even mix of elliptical versus straight among the sample. In one case a corporal's frock coat had elliptical chevrons while the same man's vest had a single small, straight set sewn to the right breast. Both pairs were hand-sewn and made from slightly different shades of sky blue worsted wool tape.

Although that is an example of one soldier who bore the same rank insignia of two different styles, there is a broader example of differing styles of chevrons in the same regiment. Two privately held garments belonging to two different men serving in the same regiment bear differing styles of chevrons. A frock coat belonging to a Michigander in the 1st U.S. Sharpshooters has what I believe are arsenal-made elliptical corporal chevrons. A dark blue fatigue blouse belonging to a Vermont sergeant in the same regiment bears straight chevrons. These don't appear to be arsenal-made and are perhaps a private purchase or field-made.

It's possible that if a man was promoted and needed chevrons he would just purchase what was available from home or from a sutler, or he just made his own following no particular design. The thing is that with so many authentic vendors selling the ellipitcal style and so many mainstreamers/etc. in general wearing the straight style, people get the wrong impression of what authentic chevrons really are.

Brian White
Wambaugh, White, & Co.

[Federal Bummer]

Brian,

Have you observed any original Confederate garments with chevrons?

If so, can you give a brief description?

[weed]

In my humble opinion, both types are correct. I have original uniforms in my collection that have both. The chevrons on one of my artillery shell jackets are semi elliptical (we used these to base the chevrons Chris Sullivan (Stoney Brooke Co.) makes off of. The chevrons on my cav. shell jaket are more ellipticall and the chevrons (1st sgt) on my enlisted man's frockcoat are closer to straight.


I will go downstairs later and take pictures of these and post them.

Weed

[lhsnj]

Keep looking at the photos, you're on the right track. You will find that chevrons came in a variety of shapes and sizes.

You will find this variety even within a single company. Here is a photo from Aug 63 of the 93rd PA Co D.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/va_sgt/69944539.jpg

CALL NUMBER
LC-B817- 7458


Here is another shot of the same group.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/va_sgt/93rdPACoD.jpg

CALL NUMBER
LC-B811- 217A

[John Legg]

That site i listed before had another pair.

4847 - These are a pair of Sgt. chevrons. They do look like the ones that cadets would wear, also in that photo tyler.

Here is another Photo of a Corporal. His chevrons look elliptical.http://www.emmitsburg.net/archive_list/articles/history/civil_war/coles_cavalrymen/sergeant_william_currens.htm

4848

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Just the fact that [Vendor X] carries the elliptical style points to the elliptical being more authentic. Could

I'd like to address the specific quote above. Nothing against "Vendor X", but just because a maker of repro wares makes it does NOT mean it's accurate or common. No matter where you buy repro wares, research first and buy second. My comment is general and not specifically relative to chevrons or "Vendor X".

Others posting on this thread have addressed, in more knowledgable fashion than I could, the issues regarding elliptical vs. "straight" chevrons. Photographic documentation shows that both types were common and I agree with Mr. White that it would be absurd to believe that one type was issued to Regulars with another type issued to volunteer units.

I believe that certain makers of repro wares offer elliptical chevrons for whatever reason(s), and certain "authenticity"-minded reenactors buy those both because that maker has a certain reputation, as well as the fact that elliptical chevrons appear to be much less-common in reenacting than they were in the Civil War, which in turn sets the reenactor wearing elliptical chevrons apart from others who wear "straight" chevrons, possibly from "mainstream" vendors. Many so-called "campaigners" desire to look different than others in reenacting, and different chevrons are just one way ot doing that. In the interest of full disclosure, that's pretty much why I purchased elliptical chevrons from "Vendor X" years ago--I was in a "mainstream" group and thought, "Hey, those are different, kinda cool, and I see 'em in period photos and I don't see 'em at the events I attend. Let's sew 'em on!" It sort of started a fashion trend in my former group that continues with some of its non-comm impressionists to this day, and I suspect that group isn't different than others.

[CJDaley]

Just the fact that CJ Daley carries the elliptical style points to the elliptical being more authentic.

Wrong. Read the comments by collectors like Weed, craftsman like Brian and Historians like Ross and Kevin.

I have found no evidence that straight or elliptical are more authentic than the other. I started making the elliptical style in 1994 because only a few other vendors carried the elliptical and the vast majority of sutlers carried the straight, it was the only reason I chose the elliptical over the straight. It was marketing an authentic item that was under represented over an equally authentic item that was over represented. That's it.

Since then, I have made them straight and elliptical; and I've made them from 3/8 and 1/2 tape; and light blue tape and french blue tape; and vertical ribbed material and chevrons weave material; and wool and silk; and machine sewn and hands sewn.

I've made chevrons based on the many originals I've seen, but to date, I've yet to find evidence to support the myth that straight chevrons were regular army and elliptical were volunteers or that one style prevails as being more authentic.

Remember that many of the chevrons made throughout the war were made by contractors which explains the great deal of variety in originals.

[Pvt Schnapps]

In addition to elliptical or straight there's a third option: invisible.

A couple of months ago I came across the following entries in the journal of Allan Morgan Geer.

June 12, 1863:

Sent a letter Home. Rec’d my warrant as 1st Serg. Co. C from Major Bradley to rank as such from May 16th the date of Wm. T. Harvey’s death.

December 18, 1863:

Had Chevrons put on my coat for the first time.

Geer enlisted in the 20th Illinois in 1861 and served throughout the war, rising to first sergeant and, finally, Lieutenant. As a paperwork afficianado, I was really impressed that he got his warrant first and his chevrons six months later!

See: Andersen, Mary Ann, ed. The Civil War Diary of Allen Morgan Geer, Cosmos Press, New York, 1977

[Kevin O'Beirne]

Mike,

While it's difficult and indavisable to argue that many non-comms went without chevrons, particularly during long, arduous campaigns (Gettysburg, Overland, Atlanta, March to the Sea, Carolinas, etc.), based only on the quote you provided and its date, I wonder if the quote is regarding the fellow's overcoat...?

Army Regs say that non-comms' overcoats were to have chevrons, but I understand that the actual practice of this was quite rare.

[Charles Heath]

The often seen image Greg posted also demonstrates another variation, and that is the open versus closed profile chevrons. Wartime images indicate the presence of the latter probably wasn't widespread, and it is very rare to see reproductions reflecting this interesting little detail.

[CJDaley]

Michael,
I know you've quote Daniel Chisholm before, but if you check his book he has a quote in there about being ordered to cut up blankets to make chevrons. I don't have my copy handy, but it's a rather interesting quote.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Indeed, Chris:

“Saturday, Jany 14th [1865] We have special orders for every non commissioned officer to have chevrons on their arms and stripes on their pants. The quarter master hasn’t any, we have to take old blouses and make them ourselves. It is laughable to see all the boys at work with their needles. You may depend some of the stitches are long.”

Kevin:

I thought about that -- maybe he meant frock rather than sack, too -- but in the context of his other journal entries I concluded that he simply hadn't bothered. A extenuating circumstance in his case is that he spent a few of those six months in a parole camp.

None of our information really allows us to make hard conclusions -- photos are special events (in the examples posted, don't some of those chevrons look pinned or loosely tacked on?), and journal entries provide an unscientific sample based on what a particular soldier found worth mentioning on a given day.

But I thought Geer's comment was interesting in light of photos of 1st sgts and junior officers with no or subdued insignia.

And in terms of what re-enactors do, I suspect there's little danger that we'll see a wholesale move away from chevrons.

[Lee Ragan]

Here are some photos i found on google.

Here is Andrew Jackson Smith. He recieved the Medal of Honor. His chevrons look like they are straight.

4843


And here is a very interesting original pair of Corporal Chevrons...

4844
Those "Corporal" chevrons look more like Military Academy Sergeants chevrons. (Yes many academies use 2 stripes for Sergeants and one for Corporals.) Also note that the stripes are connected on the ends, which is a characteristic of cadet chevrons. The extreme elongation also shows them to be cadet chevrons. Also, they would be worn points up, not down. The cadets at West Point have been wearing chevrons like this for well over 150 years.
Lee Ragan

[Lee Ragan]

Having been a collector of military chevrons for over 30 years, I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject. (I'm no expert by the way.... just interested.) According to the book "Chevrons", by LTC William K., Emerson,( AUS Retired). By the time of the war, chevrons were both issued as tape and applied directly to the sleeve and in the North in particular, being "ready made" by sewing the tape to a background piece of cloth then sewing the whole thing to the sleeve. They were made by the government and by private contractors. Both the straight bar chevrons and the elongated type were produced both as "ready-made" stripes and as individual stripes sewn directly to the coat sleeve. This was usually a matter of personal taste of the man wearing the chevrons. Or perhaps wharever was available.
When the "Johnson", pattern chevrons were introduced in 1872, they were made with straight stripes. However, photos from the 1870's and later, show that sometimes those chevrons were sewn on in such a manner as to give them the appearance of elongated chevrons. Again, as a personal preference to the wearer.
Just another case of a G.I. wanting to have a little something "different", about his uniform.

[Johnny Lloyd]

To all:

I am a 1998 graduate of The Citadel. The grey chevrons you have above look exactly like upside-down cadet corporal chevrons from the 1870-1900 period of the Citadel or possibly the same period for another military school (VMI, West Point, etc.). They might be postwar. But I had a pair when I was a cadet corporal at Citadel on the forearm of my dress blouse that pointed upward. Those look suspiciously like they are postwar, though. I can tell they are old though.

The modern picture of Citadel cadets is a picture of current school president Gen. Rosa. The one on the far left is a cadet sergeant (two stripes facing upward on the upper arm) and not a corporal. I was a cadet sergeant as well.

Not saying that they might be period militia, but I think they look just the like chevrons I once wore on my uniform. Same texture of material and color that go on the dress blouse (no tails, but a high collar), not the full dress blouse (the one with tails to it).

I'd post a picture, but I don't know how.

Check this link for more of what I speak. There is a historical section to it with pics if you can find it.

www.citadel.edu

Thanks- Johnny Lloyd

[John E. Tobey]

Some units had huge problems getting their NCO's to wear chevrons at all. Inspection reports filed by Brigade OD's (available at the National Archives) commonly refer to regiments in which "almost none" of the sergeants have chevrons on their uniforms. This problem seemed to be worse at the end of summer campaigns, and was rectified during the chicken-sh*t period known as winter quarters. At least we know that orders were issued to get the men to sew on chevrons...hard to tell if the guys actually did it.

John Tobey

[Rebel Yell1863]

I agree, in combat non descript is the way to go. The people in your unit should know you're an NCO, why make your self a target.:rolleyes:

Why not just leave them off?

[Frenchie]

Just as an aside, the 3rd US Infantry's unit history says the regulations didn't state that NCO fatigue blouses were to have chevrons. In November '62 the NCOs burned the frocks they'd been wearing since the Peninsula and went to fatigue blouses without insignia, but this caused confusion among the volunteers and some younger Regular officers, so they put them on for the '63 Spring campaign season. There's no mention of the blue stripes on the trousers.