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Silvana Siddali
03-09-2008, 10:26 AM
I'm working on a pattern for a crocheted tobacco pouch. It was originally published in 1861. It'll appear in a future edition of the "A La Mode" volumes Polly Steenhagen & I have been bringing out.

The pattern calls for silk yarn in blue or brown and is fairly straightforward to work. It's just a basic design with some openwork trim at the top & a drawstring. The original pattern didn't indicate what sort of lining should be used, though. I assume that tobacco pouches had to be lined in some way, didn't they? A preliminary search for information on 19th century tobacco pouches didn't yield too much helpful material. I've been looking at museum catalogues & have found very few detailed descriptions. That is, I've found dozens of mentions of tobacco pouches -- I gather they were a popular gift -- but none of the descriptions explain what the lining was made of.

Beeton's needlework book shows many different styles of small purses and pouches made in a similar fashion to my pattern, but none indicate how they are to be lined. Same thing in Godey's and Peterson's (apparently they just assume that the reader will know how to finish the pouch.)

Now here's one particularly beautiful example, though, of a beaded tobacco pouch from the early 19th c.:

http://www.rubylane.com/shops/goodygoddess/iteml/RL-190#pic1

It's not clearly dated in the description, but it does look to be early 19th century. The owner explains that the red velvet lining was added later. (Red velvet doesn't seem to be appropriate for tobacco use, does it?)

All of the detailed descriptions of 19th century crocheted, embroidered, or knitted tobacco pouches I've found date from just after our period (1870s to 1890s). Most of those indicate that the pouch should be lined in kid leather.

So I thought I'd throw this open to you, especially those of you who may smoke pipes. Have you seen period tobacco pouches in museums or collections? How were they lined? About how large were they?

Thank you.

Spinster
03-09-2008, 01:12 PM
The two that I have examined are in private hands, with provenance to a larger collection of wartime goods attributable to one soldier.

One was lined in red silk that had a different feel to it--to me, it indicated an oiled silk, but that is only a guess on my part. The other was lined in leather of a lightweight, pliable consistency. Either of these would aid in maintaining the proper humidity needed for the best use of the tobacco.

Size--roughly the size of the palm of the hand.

DannyJoe
03-09-2008, 01:14 PM
Silvana,
You might give Don Smith at TMD a call. He made a tobacco pouch for me a few years ago. It was lined with a "rubber" material that was somewhat like a Federal ground cloth only not as thick. It works real well, and keeps the tobacco very fresh.
Regards,
Dan

Cottoncarder
03-09-2008, 02:34 PM
Ditto on the suggestion to go with Don Smith at TMD. I purchased one of his tobacco pouches over a year ago and have been very pleased with it. It is very useful in keeping lucifers dry also if not used for tobacco. Velvet would breath too much to keep the required level of moisture in.

markj
03-09-2008, 04:19 PM
Mme. Siddali,

Comment ca-va? Perhaps you have, or have not, seen this little item in the February 1870 "Godey" (see attachment).

How's the tenured life treating you?

Faithfully yours, &c.,

Mark Jaeger

Uncle Pig
03-11-2008, 12:04 PM
As a pipe smoker who has tried several types of tobacco pouches in the modern world let me add some insight.

Historical tobacco pouches were small less than a days supply.

If you use a pouch of cloth or leather the tobacco will dry out rapidly. Less than one day and it will need to be hydrated.

All modern pouches have a water tight liner to keep the tobacco from drying out.

I would like to find a reproduction of a good waterproof pouch from the CW era.

Thanks,
Mark C. Foster

PS – If you have any other “pipe dreams” let me know

Stonewall_Greyfox
03-11-2008, 12:32 PM
Historical tobacco pouches were small less than a days supply.

If you use a pouch of cloth or leather the tobacco will dry out rapidly. Less than one day and it will need to be hydrated.



Do you have references for the size of period "historic" pouches? How do you define a "days supply"? Wouldn't this depend upon the frequency of use?

Your other statement, is presumably based on personal experience?

Paul B.

jgr1974
03-11-2008, 06:34 PM
Hello,

I just wanted to ad my two cents!!! I have smoked a pipe off and on for some time-getting back to it soon!!! I am not aware of original specimens, but I do know you want a large mouth so you dip the bowl of the pipe in the mouth of the pouch. Then be able to bring it up out of the mouth in a scooping motion. This allows a smoker to get a nice loaded pipe without loosing half the tobacco!. My thoughts on pipes of the preiod are also that if a man was a regular smoker, he would have something nicer than the clay bowls that are commonly dug. These pipes do not stand up to daily smoking!

The Mad MIck!

Stonewall_Greyfox
03-11-2008, 06:40 PM
My thoughts on pipes of the preiod are also that if a man was a regular smoker, he would have something nicer than the clay bowls that are commonly dug. These pipes do not stand up to daily smoking!

The Mad MIck!

Interesting assertation...but alot would depend on how one defines "regular smoker" the size of his wallet...and their desire for something nicer/more permanant.

Clay Pipes, Corn Cobs...etc...were produced primarily for their short-time functionality, were very cheap and in many cases mass produced...these items were meant to be disposable and that's probably the reason why so many pipes of these materials (complete or fragmented) are found in trash pits today.

If every "regular smoker" had a "nicer" pipe...would we still have just as many cheap pipes survive today?

Paul B.