sheer dresses

[Drygoods]

Recently I've noticed a good deal of attention has been put into the wearing of sheer dresses, and I would like to know if people think that this style of dress is most suitable on young women, or something for all ages? I've been searching through CDVs to get an idea of the age of people who wear this popular dress style but it has been rather inconclusive. I like the idea of wearing comfortable clothing but am worried that I might appear as mutton dressed as lamb. I have two originals myself, one made of a border print sheer wool, the other a cotton.

Robin Stokes has some fine examples on her sight, and the women look great, though middle aged. I would like to know if anyone has any diary notes of women who mention this style of dress, and an idea of their age. Please post your thoughts and ideas as I could use some perspective of what you think of them, even if you don't wear them. Many thanks for your time.

<I thought that I posted this here earlier, but I guess that I didn't, so sorry if I put it in the wrong folder>

[ElizabethClark]

I've not noticed any age restrictions on sheers in period writing or photographs. Those worried about mutton can certainly use a slightly higher half-high lining, and very conservative trims, to reflect an appropriately mature dress style.

[Drygoods]

Thank you for your reply Mrs. Clark. I'm in the process of making one for my daughter, and have so much leftover that I considered one for myself, with a slight trim of just a waist belt and perhaps a ribbon on the sleeve. Here in CA you don't see many of these style of dresses, I can only recall seeing 2 in a 10 year period. It's one of those things that I think crops up in fashion cycles, like eyelet. I can't explain why everyone is suddenly making eyelet. :confused: I confess that after looking at Miss Benneke's site, that petticoat she has got me making two of my own! <I may have her name incorrectly spelled>

I check the CDV ebay pages twice a week to get an idea for things that I'm working on, as it helps to have several original photos as your guide:wink_smil

Lordy, like I need another dress!:(

Today I am finishing up an outfit that I started 10 years ago, but I never wore myself because now I'm too old and have outgrown it. It's a Garibaldi suit with over 100 yards of 1/4 inch velvet ribbon. the blouse, the jacket, and skirt -- all being trimmed with the Grecian key pattern. Believe me, I am so sick and tired of this handwork that I can't wait to see it off of my 'to do' list! It now fits my daughter and is ideal for a young woman.:D

[turfwriter]

Ladies --

Please pardon me jumping in here, but your mention of Robin Stokes' sheers couldn't have been more timely, as she has just announced that she is now taking pre-orders for a line of sheer cotton fabrics available for reproduction Civil War-period dresses.

http://www.robinstokes.com

Laurel Scott
7th MD Co. A

[FTrooper]

Can I ask if anyone can give me a little history of sheer dresses. Is this fabric correct for 1840's and 1870's as well?

Thanks,

Chris Fischer
Fort McKavett State Historic Site
&
F-Troop

[ElizabethClark]

Chris, sheer dresses in cotton, wool, and silk show up in the 1840s, 1850s, 1860s, and 1870s, but the styles of motif do change through that time, as do the precise styles of the dresses made from the sheers. This particular fabric might well work for something in the 1840s, but you'd have to investigate the 1870s before committing to it for that use. Sheers tend to be delicate, and don't have a long useful life--a sheer made in the 60s would be unlikely to survive for remaking a decade later.

[VMurphy]

About the same time the Peach Tree Pattern for a Sheer Dress came out, I was visiting a southern Louisiana Sugar Plantation called "LAURA"...BTW a fabulous restored 1800's plantation to visit if you are ever in southeastern LA. I noticed on their brochure that the lady pictured was wearing a sheer dress of the exact same bodice pattern as the Peach Tree Pattern. I believe the photo was ca. late 1850's.

It stands to reason that wearing lighter weight sheerer fabrics in the heavy moist heat of summer could be pretty standard throught out the lower tier of states, no matter North or South.
Women of any age, who would be out and about in the heat of summer, would no doubt want to be as comfortable as possible; still keeping with decorum.

Vivian Murphy

[Drygoods]

Mrs. Murphy,
Yes, that Peachtree pattern is a beauty. I remember when it came out, I had some cloth that was just about identical to the original pattern, so saved the whole bolt to make a dress with the paper pattern for a shop mannequin.

Oddly enough, I cannot understand why there seems to be a 'craze' for sheer dresses all of a sudden, but I am glad of it because we need more flexibility in our period wardrobes. Myself, it's not my style, but since I had some excess cloth from my daughter's dress, I thought that I might do something useful and more than using the scrapes for sleeves, or tuckers.

Now all I need are a few black lace shawls to be worn over these dresses:wink_smil Hah! like I need another shawl.:D

[Annette Bethke]

Perhaps it's because of the Past Pattern sheer dress pattern that came out in the last few months.

[Drygoods]

Perhaps it's because of the Past Pattern sheer dress pattern that came out in the last few months.

I looked at the site, but didn't see a sheer dress pattern, do you have a photograph or illustration?

[VMurphy]

Whether it be a "craze" or simply through research documentation and patterns have become available as Annette suggests.
Many years ago, probably 1994 or 95, I found a wonderful piece of sheer cotton/linen blend and made a summer dress. Although it wasn't half-lined, it was considerably cooler than a regular cotton dress, and I wore it to death. It was a great plaid of pale gray/white with red/yellow lined plaid. It just seemed to make sense to me that softer more sheer fabric would be used in the heat of summer. The dress had very full gathered sleeves with a small cuff, and when relaxing in the shade, found that if I unbuttoned the cuff the dress was immediatly cooler! Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one :) Kay Krewer has some wonderful sheer dresses, one of which I recall is an extremely loose weave, wool, I think, with not a stitch of lining anywhere!!

I did later on sell it to someone that could fit into it :( and hope they are still getting some good out of it.

Regards
Vivian Murphy

[Annette Bethke]

I looked at the site, but didn't see a sheer dress pattern, do you have a photograph or illustration?

It's probably not on her site yet; my pattern is at home. I'll scan it and send you an image if I don't find it anywhere else.

[VMurphy]

I know Sandra Altman is working on a sheer dress pattern, taken from an original that I believe belongs to Glenna JO Christin, but I didn't realize it is now on the market ???
Vivian Murphy

[Annette Bethke]

Bought mine at the 1860s conference in Harrisburg this past March.

[Drygoods]

Yes, the pattern evidently will be up on the website later this week. It's very pretty and likely will be a popular style for many women around the country. Perhaps Miss Bethke is correct, the current popularity IS due to the PP new pattern.:D

[ElizabethClark]

Probably not--sheers have been gaining in popularity for the last five years by my reckoning! But the new Past Patterns version will be fun to play with, I'm sure.

[Annette Bethke]

Yes, the pattern evidently will be up on the website later this week. It's very pretty and likely will be a popular style for many women around the country. Perhaps Miss Bethke is correct, the current popularity IS due to the PP new pattern.:D

Have you see it, then? So do you still want a scan of the pattern front?

[Drygoods]

Thank you Miss Bethke, but you needn't go ahead with the scan. Sandra sent me a scan of the sheer dress pattern and said that it goes up on the website this week.
Just so that you know, today I've just about finished another petticoat, like yours. It has eighteen, 1-inch pleats with a very similar eyelet edging round the bottom, very nice. Next I have that blue and brown wrapper to copy to wear over this dressy petticoat! Why I started another petticoat I'll never know, but I'm enjoying myself.:D:D:D

[Drygoods]

I thought that I'd share some ebay finds from this morning. First, a sheer dress with possibly darted bodice, second; a fully lined bodice, and third; somethin' pretty to put over that sheer dress.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Civil-War-Era-Sheer-Organdy-Training-Skirt-4-Study_W0QQitemZ300213567759QQihZ020QQcategoryZ4886 4QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.com/Sheer-Floral-Antique-Vintage-Victorian-1860s-Gown-Dress_W0QQitemZ270187731335QQihZ017QQcategoryZ4886 4QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262


http://cgi.ebay.com/Pagoda-Sleeve-1860s-Black-Chantilly-Lace-Jacket_W0QQitemZ200214505026QQihZ010QQcategoryZ488 64QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Mammyk]

:) Kay Krewer has some wonderful sheer dresses, one of which I recall is an extremely loose weave, wool, I think, with not a stitch of lining anywhere!!
Regards
Vivian Murphy

Hi Vivian-

One question came to mind after reading this. With such a fine textile, could time/age break the weave down? Something that was perhaps a tighter weave in 1860 now in 2008 be quite loose?

Regards-
Jill Kransel

[ElizabethClark]

Jill, I don't think that's the case.... quite a few tight-weave sheer fabrics have stood the test of time, as have loose-weave sheers and nearly-sheers. There'd be no reason for *some* of the same-fiber strands in the weave to evaporate, leaving others behind. :) I think we're just used to a far more limited scope of fabric weaves in the modern world--the variety of the past can seem odd to us.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

I agree with Liz on this. While from a different fashion era, Rosalie Calvert minces no words in describing the sheer dress of one individuals in the early 1800s. So sheer that the skin could be seen.

Take on again Rose O'Neal Greenhow's dress in her most famous image in the Old Capitol Prison and her arms are clearly visible through her sheer sleeves.

[Mammyk]

Hi Liz-
Would you agree that textiles can break down through the course of time? That was more the point I was trying to make. :) I have seen sheer drapes that having been hanging untouched for years fall apart the first time they were taken down for a cleaning. (Of course these were a blend of synthetics also)

[ElizabethClark]

Oh, absolutely~ but the loose weaves seen in some extant garments aren't generally loose due to deterioration, but rather that they were loose weaves originally, and are still loose and ever more fragile now.

[Drygoods]

Two things that I would say about fabrics that can age over time; first, consider the fabric, if it is a cotton, the main consideration is the length and spun tightness of the fiber, and if it was worn out in areas you can see where snags or pills have weakened the area of cloth. The second thing is the dyes, iron oxide dyes sometimes will eat away the cloth, in other words, some dark colors used in textile printing will completely vanish because the dye disintegrated the fabric.

I have one sheer dress in my own collection that has had a rough life. It started out being a rather fine dress(likely 1850-60s), but some time in the later 1870s was remade into a loose slip on wrapper. Odd I know, but it had been taken apart and all the border print was removed and used only for trim, pockets, and piped areas. Sorry to say that the person who made the dress had little skill with a needle, but you can still see the original marks (holes and former stitching lines) in the cloth of what it might have been originally. I think that it was redone for maternity or something of this kind because I can't imagine anyone wearing this dress out in public.

[Becky Morgan]

I think that it was redone for maternity or something of this kind because I can't imagine anyone wearing this dress out in public.

That dress has to have a story. Do you have any idea of where it had been?
I would think--
--given to a charityand remodeled by someone desperate
--worn by an older person (maybe the original owner) who could no longer wear it as originally constructed (or who thought she was too old to wear it but couldn't bear /afford to part with it)
--worn in some of the newly white-settled Trans-Mississippi, where there were so few women around that style might matter much less than decency and comfort (that is a guess and not supported by any document I currently have on hand; however, it does come from some knowledge of western supply problems and the less than rich life faced by most settlers.)
It might also have become worn, stained or otherwise rendered unusable in its original form. I've seen a lot of garments altered for a daughter or cut down into children's clothing. That's what makes me think of the West: since it was remade for an adult woman, maybe there was no one close enough in size in the area to wear it as it was.

[K. Krewer]

---the loose weaves seen in some extant garments aren't generally loose due to deterioration, but rather that they were loose weaves originally---

Haven't been on for a while, but glad I signed on tonight to see what's been going on.

It's not really that the weaves are loose, but the way in which they're woven. It's a gauze, or leno, weave, in which 2 warp threads are in the same space and twist back and forth, around bundles of weft fibers -- so that the fabrics are actually a very tight weave, but there's a lot of space left in between! And sometimes there are "skips" in the weft weaving, as well, to create even more space.

Many others are plain (tabby) woven, but the fibers are very, very fine.

But it's no defect -- they were woven to be that way, to be light and diaphanous.

[VMurphy]

Hi K

Thanks for writing in...I had in mind the green check you have which has no lining. And thanks for the explanation of the sheer weave. The technique makes such good sense,the textile is strong but lightweight :) It's a great dress, I probably have a photo of it somewhere ;(

Regards
Vivian Murphy
Star of the West Society
Athens '08
Marmaduke's Raid

[turfwriter]

Judith -- I meant to mention in my earlier post that not all of the sheer dress models on Robin Stokes' site are middle-aged; there are a couple of young girls (children to preteen), as well. At least one of these dresses is patterned directly after a young girl's sheer dress in Godey's.

Also, if anyone is interested, photos of the four colorways for Robin's new sheer fabrics have just been uploaded to her website.

[Drygoods]

I found another sheer dress with darted bodice for folks to enjoy.:D

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310002062977&indexURL=0&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting

[Becky Morgan]

That's so pretty it could be a modern wedding dress (or a nice one for a wedding at an event.)