Steamboat Arabia - Everything you want to know!

[Matt Woodburn]

OK Gang,

I had the distinct pleasure of visiting the Steamboat Arabia Museum in Kansas City, MO this past weekend, and I've never seen so much stuff from just before the Civil War. The Arabia sank in 1856 in the Missouri River with 200 TONS of cargo. When the Arabia sank, she didn't get salvaged. And she took just about an 1856 Wal-Mart down with her. Dave Hawley, the finder, salvager and museum owner is a great guy and took me on the finest museum tour I've had in over 30 years.

A good Civil War impression includes knowledge of many things between 1861 and 1865, but it is not complete without a firm knowledge of what people knew most about in their lives up until 1861. If you want a great sampling of what material existed in civilian life just prior to the war to see how it fits in with our historical impressions, Dave and the Steamboat Arabia Museum probably has it. You can visit their website at www.1856.com (http://www.1856.com)

Dave was kind enough to open the museum and his displays to me, and now I'm going to share as much as I have with you. For 27 years in the hobby, I've heard all kinds of debates about what is "authentic/correct" and what is not. I had a number of myths busted for me at the museum and now present them here for all of us to forever know. Let's begin!

I've heard some people say that hot dipped tin is the only way to go. While there may have existed a mottled tin finish on some tin, the Arabia's tinwares were smooth and shiny. My eye is untrained, so I'll let the pictures below speak for themselves. So what do you think?

I've heard people say that a stamped/pressed tin plate that looks like a modern tin pie plate is not correct. I say look at the picture of the one below. There were quite a few on display, and Dave got this one down for me to see the back side. The edges were simply folded under and pressed flat about 2-3 mm. What do you think about that?

I've heard some people say that you should really have cast iron ears for the bail on boilers. While I did see cast iron ears on a boiler in another museum, all the ones I saw at the Arabia were of tin. Some were plain and simply curved. Others had a stamped groove around the hole through which the bail wire went. The ears were all riveted to the body of the boiler. Some photos are below. What do you think about that?

I'll post more subjects and photos in this thread as time permits over the next couple weeks.

[Matt Woodburn]

So what did at least one type of stick matches look like and how were they packaged? These below have the phosphorous tips disolved away, but you'll get the idea. The wooden containers were about two inches in diameter. They varied a little which was from being waterlogged and then shrinkage. Dave and I looked under the cap to see if there was a rough place, i.e. glued sand paper, but we found nothing but a dark spot. Couldn't tell if it was discolorization from the phosphorous tips, where glue had been or simply age. So who's going to tackle making these now?

[Rob Walker]

Thanks Matt,
Very interesting info and pictures. In the past I have heard the same thing about boilers in regards to the use of cast iron. I have an original boiler that is very similar to the ones you have pictured. It would be cool if the museum was able to publish it's finding and collections in a book in the future. Thanks again for sharing.

[Material Culture]

Hot dipped tin can be very smooth and shiny. That is the difference between something made in factory and something made in your backyard.
I would say the ears are not tinned but of blackened sheet iron.

Sam Hayle
Tinner Mess

[Matt Woodburn]

How about a simple way to ship and sell plug tobacco? In a small wooden barrel with the plugs pressed into the shape of pie wedges would seem to be efficient. John Crabb of Ezra Barnhouse Goods needs to add this style to his fine sutlery. I'll be happy to be his first customer.

[jwoodli]

That stuff is incredible. I feel a lot better about my boiler now. Can't wait for some more posts. Any new info on cutlery and supper fixins? What about pomades...

[Matt Woodburn]

Rob,

Books are out on some of it, but not all. Dave and I talked about it and I'm going to check into some ways to make it happen with my publishing background.

Sam,
I meant to say tinned sheet iron on the ears as opposed to pure tin. Pure tin would be too soft I think and wouldn't take the heat of cooking. Thanks for the clarification.

[Matt Woodburn]

I've heard people debate about what pocket knives should look like. That some knives look too modern. So what did they look like? These below.

[Old Overholt]

Those of us who live in the Kansas City area are very proud of the Arabia museum, and every time I have visited it they always have a bundle of new items on display. The conservation efforts will take years before the entire cargo is finished. If you are ever in the area, you simply must stop in. Also, the cargo of the steamboat Bertrand consisting of over 200,000 items is just a couple of hours up I-29 at Missouri Valley, Iowa in the DeSoto National Wildlife Refuge. The Bertrand sank in 1865 just north of Omaha on its way to the Montana gold fields.

Another good reason to pay a visit to the Arabia is the fact that the Hawley group runs the museum and conservation efforts as a privately funded venture. When the ship was found and its cargo salvaged, a great debate sprang up about "for profit" museums. This seems to have died down now, but we still get little ripples here and there. The bottom line is, if people don't come see the museum, it may not be around forever and its conservation work could be stopped. Plus, there are literally dozens if not hundreds of Missouri River steamboat wrecks that are out there to be discovered, buried under 30 feet or so of river silt. Who knows what is still on those that were not immediately salvaged...

[P. M. Cunningham, Tinner]

The tinware on the boat was all hot dipped. The vats that produced the plate probably had mechcanical wipes installed, which were around at the time. There is definite evidence to dip plate from some of the artifacts crystallization pattern. This was what I was able to tell after being in collections for a couple of days.

Patrick Cunningham

[crabby]

Hi Matt,
Isn’t the Arabia museum just fantastic? Regarding the matches, these are the basis for our packaging on the Gates Matches we sell. We were unable to find or manufacture the wooden tubes so had to go with the “closest available” which is pasteboard. Also, there was a match company in the 1850 – 1870 era called Gates & Sons.

The pie shaped tobacco plugs are something we will have to check into. The round plugs we sell are made in a reproduction tobacco plug press. The original press is owned by the living history site our son-in-law works at.

And we totally agree with Aaron. It is truly amazing what the Hawleys have accomplished with no state or federal funding. Especially when you read their book and realize that when they set out to find the Arabia, they had no intention of starting a museum.
John & Beth Crabb

[LibertyHallVols]

I stumbled upon the Arabia museum completely by accident. My wife was in a wedding there and we had lunch at one of the restaurants just adjacent to the museum. Needless to say, while "The Missus" did the bridesmaid thing, I spent most of the day putting nose prints on the glass cases at the Arabia museum.

Simply "putting old stuff in a case" really can tell a story. ;-)

[crabby]

John,

I completely understand. When we went we got there at opening and they had to pry my cold hard grip from the site at closing. I am sure they go through windex by the gallons per day. It was like being a child on Christmas moring and not knowing which present to open first!

The only downer was that the gift shop doesn't sell repro's of their items, maybe someday.

Crabby

[lambrew]

Yet another museum for me to drool over! Just throwing this out there, at the Detroit Science Center they have a traveling exhibit which has items from the S.S. Republic on display. The exhibit is geared more for the kiddies, but fun never the less.

Respectfully....
Sean Collicott

[P. M. Cunningham, Tinner]

Found my images from the Arabia. The two attachments show the crystallization pattern I metioned earlier.

Mr. Crabb is correct in saying that;
The only downer was that the gift shop doesn't sell repro's of their items, maybe someday.

Maybe someday :wink_smil

Patrick Cunningham

[Rmhisteach]

Matt,

I was in KC on Buisness and made a side trip to the Arabia Museum. It is an absolute must see for anyone doing living history events in our time span. I enjoyed it so much that I bought the picture book so I could share stories.I also bought my wife a bottle of reproduced perfume from the boat. My pard Rick Gath ( Steamboat Willie) used to work at the museum I have a feeling that he will chime in on this disscussion.

RM

[Matt Woodburn]

Patrick,

Thanks for the clarification. So if a tinner today could get the "mechanical wipes" going with the dip plate process, we'd have the process down? The hot dip stuff I see for sale today has so many runs in it and a mottled finish instead of the smooth shiny surfaces seen in your and my photos. Is getting mechanical wipes a hard thing to do?

[P. M. Cunningham, Tinner]

Matt,

Other than a few period references to wipes being around, I still have no clue how they were employed. I have never come up with detailed descriptions or illustrations to design a system.

There are various companys that produced hot dipped tin in rolls today, that use either a mechanical or air system to smooth the flow. Problem is that they can't handle the thickness of coating called for in period manufacturing. Several folks are have started using it in the last few years rather than electroplate. It is better, but still lacking five to six times the period tin coating.

The stuff I make meets up on the tin thickness, but the crystal pattern tends to show to much. Problem is I am not using the tallow vat since I wood fire my vats right now and don't want to mess with that much of a fire hazard. When that operation is in place the sheet looks darn close. What I can't copy is the cooling striation that shows up on some of the mid 19th C tinware that comes from some of the wiping systems.

The back side of one of those really shows the striation effect, see below. The pie plates seem to come from a different batch of material than most of the other products that were found on board.

It is all a matter of picking the best of different "evils" right now. At least there are better options than just using electroplated tin these days.

Patrick Cunningham

[gilham]

I've heard people debate about what pocket knives should look like. That some knives look too modern. So what did they look like? These below.

Some of those knives look like they are out of the Case/Old Timer collection.

[FlatLandFed]

Wow! Nice knives (and tinware). I visited a local antique show two weekends ago but forgot to bring information I'd culled from Orchard Hill and the CRRC2 -- bought two knives anyway based on my ever-faltering memory, hoping these purchases would fit our period of interest.

They should pass muster but now I see that I overlooked several larger pocket knives priced at $3-5 that would have been even better! Live and learn.

Thanks for sharing. I hope to see the Arabia museum this summer.

Hmmm -- I have family obligations that conflict with "colorful stand" event held in the KC area later this month. I couldn't justify driving 150 miles for just Sunday morning but if I piggybacked a trip to the museum for Sunday afternoon, this would become worthwhile.

I'll check their web site for visiting hours. Thanks for the kick start.

Paul Hadley
Look Out, 1st Minnesota, another reserve may be on the way

[Mudslinger]

The matches are interesting indeed. I'm going to go our local sternwheeler museum and see if the have anything similar to the period, and compare the match cases. Great pics! Keep'em coming!

Nick Miller
33rd O.V.I.
Mudslinger Mess

[Agate]

This is great stuff Matt, thanks very much. Were there any smoking pipes on board per chance?

[Silvana Siddali]

I had the chance to visit the Arabia last year & almost had to be dragged out of there. The owners are incredibly welcoming and seem to love talking with living history enthusiasts.

My photos aren't very good, because I was in a huge hurry (imagine having only one half hour to see the place!) but they'll give you an idea. The first is a display of earrings, the second is a knit shirt, and the last is just a shelf full of household goods.

[Arthur Stone]

Matt,

I've heard a few things about the boat ,and what was on it when it sank. Do they have a collection of Calico buttons there. I heard it's one of the bigest collections in the world. If so , didyou get any pix of them. Hopefully someday I'll make it west again. Thanks for the pix you posted.

Art

[Charles Heath]

Matt,

When Bev and I visited in June 2000, we felt the same way, especially about the "myth busters" in plain view. Two of my favorite busted myths was the "small rivet theory" when it came to knives, and the "no round stock" theory of "only square" wrought iron. If you'll think back to your own childhood, you'll remember when fish hooks came in containers very much like those match cylinders, and they aren't all that uncommon in antique stores today. Yes, they do look like oversized needle cases, and are often labeled as such for around two dollars.

Note to Paul: The entire family would most likely enjoy a visit to this museum. The excavation video is enough to interest kids, and anyone who likes "old stuff," will admire the condition and SHEER VOLUME of relics on display. You will also see plenty of items similar to those used by your parents and grandparents, and that enameled cast iron "apples & collards" kettle is a prime example -- at least for me.

[Matt Woodburn]

Art,

Calico buttons. Yes, they have an absurd amount. Dave Hawley told me at the time of the sinking in 1856, there were 109 different calico button styles. He has 101 styles on display. He thinks what he brought up from the Arabia was a salesman's sample kit. Some photos are below.

[Matt Woodburn]

John,

They did have a large number of clay pipes. All the same mold as I recall. They also brought up reed stems for them. They are on display, but I don't have any close up photos.

[BobbyHughes]

Matt,

Great post. If we can ever get there, thats a must see. Simply amazing, and the pics are incredable, and informative.. thank you!

[stubbynick]

John,

For a look at the pipes go to the site given in post #1 (www.1856.com). Go to Arabia's Exhibit and click on collection. Pipes are shown in row two.
Gerald Smolik

[Matt Woodburn]

OK, no myths to be busted with these photos, just some cool clothing and yard goods. In the first shot you'll see clothing, bolts of cloth - they have wool on the back wall and the shiny fabric in the center foreground is black silk, skeins of red wool for knitting, hats, etc. They have some nice coats, a couple of which are nicely trimmed. One had nice Goodyear hard rubber buttons with great maker marks. They also have a pile of Goodyear buttons that were headed to somebody's store. The first burgundy wool work shirt has a unique angle for the opening in the front. Haven't seen that before. And notice the two tabs with a button closure on the front of the collar. Just a cool style. The second burgundy wool overshirt shows a close up of the front placket. It's give a pleated look with only one real knife pleat. The wool where the buttons are sewn on extends under the placket and there is one pleat to the right in the picture that we pulled up to show the construction. Would love to see Speedy, Daley, Wambaugh, Hanes, Clark, etc. make a few of these. There is a lot more clothing there including a knit wool undershirt. Silvana posted the knit shirt above in this thread. So what do you think about these items?

[Matt Woodburn]

Now let's go play at the cobbler's section. Hundreds of boots and shoes for men, women and children are on display. This is a sampling. You could spend an entire day just looking over the styles and construction of the boots and shoes. Now let's arm you with real information and bust a few myths.

In the second picture you'll see a slip on shoe. Yep, a slip on. I looked on the inside to see if it was only sewn or if there was elastic inside between the tongue and sides. This one is merely sewn and you can see the stitching on the outside.

I've heard some people say eyelets in shoes are wrong. If you hear that from someone, they are wrong. In photos 2 and 3 you'll see shoes with eyelets.

Just as a comment, notice the embossed top of the boots with the word WARRANTED under a picture. There were a few different embossings on the boots they have.

And for you ladies, the last photo is a close up shot of some fancy shoes.

[Arthur Stone]

Matt, Thanks for posting the pix of the buttons!


Art

[Utley]

Matt,

I got to tour that collection last year, and was thinking to myself that if I carried half of the things in there I'd be bankrupt and be called a "farb" sutler.

As far as the tin goes, I've been telling folks about that collection for a while, trying to let them know that the only thing that is correct isn't hot dipped. Also, I'm no expert on tinware, but a tinsmith recently told me that a good portion of the hot dipped tin that was used in making tinware just prior to and during the war was machine dipped tin, which doesn't have the "roughness" or handmade look of the hand dipped tin. I have some items made from the machine dipped tin now, and you have to look close to tell the difference between it and electroplate.

As a side note, how about those ironstone bowls that are white with bright blue and green stripes that are in the "store" display in the museum.... ..Dollar General has some that look really close! Ha.

[Shotgun Messiah]

Honestly Matt if you had contacted Rick Gath about this he would have taken you on a back room tour fingering most everything... He has conserved alot of the stuff in the museum and has a wealth of knowledge on the subject. If'n I knew you was in town I would have taken you to all the colorful brothels and barrooms of the town( my paticular speciality) and BBQ joints to die for..

[Rmhisteach]

OK, no myths to be busted with these photos, just some cool clothing and yard goods. In the first shot you'll see clothing, bolts of cloth - they have wool on the back wall and the shiny fabric in the center foreground is black silk, skeins of red wool for knitting, hats, etc. They have some nice coats, a couple of which are nicely trimmed. One had nice Goodyear hard rubber buttons with great maker marks. They also have a pile of Goodyear buttons that were headed to somebody's store. The first burgundy wool work shirt has a unique angle for the opening in the front. Haven't seen that before. And notice the two tabs with a button closure on the front of the collar. Just a cool style. The second burgundy wool overshirt shows a close up of the front placket. It's give a pleated look with only one real knife pleat. The wool where the buttons are sewn on extends under the placket and there is one pleat to the right in the picture that we pulled up to show the construction. Would love to see Speedy, Daley, Wambaugh, Hanes, Clark, etc. make a few of these. There is a lot more clothing there including a knit wool undershirt. Silvana posted the knit shirt above in this thread. So what do you think about these items?
Matt, Did you get a chance to look at the woolen overshirt??? My pard that works there said that research indicates that it may be a border ruffian shirt. Something about the military buttons.

RM

[Matt Woodburn]

Warren,

I did get a great tour from Dave Hawley the owner. He opened the museum on Sunday morning to me when only he and his parents were there. We went through all of the climate and light controlled rooms behind the glass where the public has to stop. We picked up items to examine, photographed whatever I wanted, etc. He was really gracious. We went to the room where one of his preservationists was at work preparing a boot. She went through the entire lengthy process of getting it thawed out to cleaning - they have a huge reverse osmosis system for their water because of the chemicals and microorganisms you find in city water - the polyethylene glycol soak, freeze drying and weighing until the weight is stable, etc. We went into the freezer which is the size of a boxcar and is kept at -10 degrees, where all the items waiting for preservation are kept. There are over 3000 pairs of boots and shoes in there alone, two prefabricated houses like you would have oredered from a Sears catalog, and 1000s of other things waiting their turn for preservation.

I had some good BBQ, but when I get out there again, I'll take you up on a great BBQ tour.

[Matt Woodburn]

Rod,

Yes, I did get to look closely at the shirts that I photographed. They do not have military buttons on them, just plain white china. There is another shirt that I think your friend is referring to. I've seen pictures of it, but didn't see it there. This place was simply too huge. Imagine walking into WalMart and starting to inspect every item there. I had 3.5 hours which would be like getting down one isle at WalMart. For the average tourist 3.5 hours is fine for the museum available to the public. But when you consider everything behind the scenes, items not on public display, etc. it was a whirlwind tour.

The shirt your friend is referring to can be seen on the Arabia's website, www.1856.com, in the collection section on the bottom row.

Dave has a small pile of military buttons that I photographed and later identified for him. They are Navy buttons shown below, and are Albert NA101A or Tice NA203 depending on the cataloging system you are using.

[Anna Allen]

Hey Matt, thanks for the picture of the fancy shoes. I don't think I noticed those the last time I went. I was probably mesmerized by the rubber overshoes. Those things are A-Mazing. I took a bunch of pictures, but I'm going to have to dig through my files to find them again. I'll upload them and post them here when I find them, though.

[Thomas Alleman]

It is very surprising that the hats are round hats which was a common way to make such hats. Also that they look allot like Hardee types. Did the hats have linings though and did they have binding around the brim? I know a civilian wearing a blank hardee in our realm would not be looked upon as wearing a civilian hat but there they are. So much of that collection busts so many myths about the amount of goods and the quality that were sold. I do not think one sack coat was made of jean. We need to make a Arabia line of clothing.

"two prefabricated houses like you would have ordered from a Sears catalog"
Interesting enough but not uncommon. I worked restoring a 1848 Church and it was made upriver then disassembled then sent downriver. Many of these such churches were built that way. Prefab Religion.

Thanks again.

[tenfed1861]

Matt,great photos.After seeing the burgendy shirt,I think I'd want Mr. Wambaugh to make one up for me.And after looking at the website,I know I think I'd be crying as they locked the doors.That clothing looks amazing.

[Arthur Stone]

Matt,
I would like to ask you a question about the Burgundy work shirt if I may.The collar on the shirt as the tabs that button together. Did you notice if there was a button hole on the front of the bib. Once the collar is buttoned, you would button the bib to the collar by way of the collar button. I've looked at the shirt for awhile and I think I sees one, but I might be mistaken. I would like to make one of these shirts if I can fine the right color wool. Any help would be great.
Thanks,
Art

[Ian McWherter]

It is very surprising that the hats are round hats which was a common way to make such hats. Also that they look allot like Hardee types. Did the hats have linings though and did they have binding around the brim? I know a civilian wearing a blank hardee in our realm would not be looked upon as wearing a civilian hat but there they are.

Those high crowned wide brimmed hats similar to a Hardee were a common civilian hat style in the 1850s. Gee, could the Hardee hat have a civilian antecedence:rolleyes:? Example:
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t76/Ian_McWherter/manhat1.jpg

This man is also wearing a pilot coat (a paletot overcoat style similar to a pea coat very popular in the 1850s, sometimes worn as just a coat) very similar to those that were on the Arabia.

[Steamboat Willie]

Well, I suppose I should chime in here since my name has been mentioned a few times.

I do still work with the museum, though now in a rather limited capacity. I have been with them since 1999, and have on occasion, organized a few back room tour for folks on our end of the hobby. I am thrilled to hear that the Hawley's are opening the collection for more living historians, because believe me, it was not always so.

A few of the facts and figures about the boat in the thread are a little off -- I can't help it, I'm anal retentive, and an ass, so the little things bother me. -- but I won't bore you folks with the details, since it probably matters only to me. Rather, if anyone has any specific questions about the boat or the artifacts on it, I'm happy to answer to the best of my ability.

Thanks very much to Matt for the free press and the kind words. The Arabia is a gem, though sometimes suprisingly a hidden one. The museum and the Hawley's deserve all the exposure they can get.

Best Regards,

[moarkcav]

Do you have any information or pictures of the saddles and tack that were on the ship?

Thanks,

Chris Talburt

[fahtz]

None of the hats have linings or sweat bands in them. Just like nothing that was stitched with natural thread was held together when it was brought up. Buttons, seams, linings, and such were all just sitting in place when they were uncovered. Last time I was there, there were not any linings with the hats. Although some may still be on ice in the cooler.

[Steamboat Willie]

Do you have any information or pictures of the saddles and tack that were on the ship?

Thanks,

Chris Talburt

Chris,

As of now, there is one lonely saddle on display. It was necessarily sewn back together by hand with 100% cotton thread back in 1993-94. This is before I hired on, so I take great delight in the fact that the stirrups were sewn on backwards. People generally do not notice it, so there is a little Easter Egg for you if ever visit. Otherwise, they did a magnificent job.

The saddle is devoid of any maker’s marks, but this plainly is not an East Coast saddle. Featuring both a high horn and a high back, it looks like an English saddle gone wrong. Those in the know have suggested a possible Mexican origin, and it seems plausible given that the Sante Fe Trail is just down the road.

In any case, this is not a McClellan, though sadly most of our guests deem it so. Admittedly, these are the same folks who staunchly deny shaped footwear, even though we are holding evidence to the contrary two inches from their face. But I digress.

About two years ago, we pulled a box from the freezer we believed contained a single pulling harness. We were amazed to find instead, four harnesses and another full saddle. It took the better part of a year --and some tremendous guidance from an Amish saddle maker -- to organize and then re-stitch all the pieces properly.

Currently they are soaking in a preservative-- The PEG Matt mentioned earlier-- that will replace the missing oils in the leather and allow us to display them. In all likelihood, we are at least another year away from finishing them. Still, I had a lot of close up time sewing those bad boys together, and never found a makers mark of note on any of them.

Most of that information apparently is on the wooden boxes the items were shipped in. Logically, there is a greater priority put on preserving the items themselves, rather than the boxes they came in. So it may be a while before we have all the manufacture companies documented or can tell you exactly how many saddles –or tack-- were truly on board.

Here is a factoid we discovered that I really like, though I'm not sure how valuable it is to you. It looks more and more likely that all the harnesses were machine sewn. We kept finding areas where the original needle was unable to punch through the leather, suddenly jumped a section of about 2-3 inches and then finally punched back through again. There was no order or design to this, as we would find the mistakes in various locations and varying lengths. In all four cases, each harness showed obvious signs of being hastily made and mass-produced.

If you look at the collection as a whole, you see this great of mixture of hand made and mass produced items. Some things like our nails and screws are all obviously handmade quality items. But, here we see harness making the transition to a machined good, and a shoddy one at that. Or at the very least, this particular shipment on one boat in 1856 made the transition.

And to me, those missed stitches are akin to time travel. Observing the nuances of a few inanimate objects, you can see the actions and decisions of people long since gone. How would the harness have faired, being so poorly made, and what was the end result for the poor guy who bought it?

I think that aspect of the collection is generally missed by a lot of the folks who come to the museum. They mostly want to see the pretty dishes and buttons. If you really look at even the most mundane artifact on our boat, it’s going to tell an amazing story. You just have to let it. The 150 year old lard for example, is quite the conversationalist.

Again, I digress.

I'm going to be at the museum on Monday, so I'll peek at the artifact records while I'm there. If I find anything pertinent, I’ll send you a pm. I'll see what I can do about getting pictures as well, since I'm sure we have some archived in the office computer. My apologies for the dissertation here, I’m one of those passionate history geeks.

Best Regards,

[J.H.Berger]

Oh my God, when I saw these boots and shoes I stopped my breath.
Oh man I fear I will have to travel to Kansas some day!!!The pictures of the shoes and boots and the remarkable condition left me slobbering:p:)
If only I could go so "easily"as you can abroad!

[Matt Woodburn]

Art,

I have a pic of the shirt that provides much more detail than what I can post here and I just can't tell if the tab button comes through the top of the "bib flap." Maybe Mr. Gath could look at it in a few days and post here. This shirt is now in the spot where the "border ruffian" shirt was once laying. Facing the display, it's the burgundy shirt on the left. The one on the right has the nice pleated look placket.

[Arthur Stone]

Thanks Matt,

I'm guessing that it does, but its only a guess. How else would the front of the collar stay attached to the front of the shirt. Maybe Mr. Gath can let me know. Thanks again for posting the pix, I cant stop looking at them. How cool would it have been the unearth that treasure in a corn field!

[Amtmann]

If you'll think back to your own childhood, you'll remember when fish hooks came in containers very much like those match cylinders, and they aren't all that uncommon in antique stores today. Yes, they do look like oversized needle cases, and are often labeled as such for around two dollars. Charles Heath

I think both you and I posted something about this a few years ago and I think I had mentioned the ones on the Arabia. That's what I've been carrying matches in for years.


I've heard some people say that you should really have cast iron ears for the bail on boilers. While I did see cast iron ears on a boiler in another museum, all the ones I saw at the Arabia were of tin. Some were plain and simply curved. Others had a stamped groove around the hole through which the bail wire went. The ears were all riveted to the body of the boiler. Some photos are below. What do you think about that?


Cunningham has been making boilers, etc. for quite a while with sheet ears, not cast. He didn't make it to the Arabia Museum until last year.

I've heard people debate about what pocket knives should look like. That some knives look too modern. So what did they look like?

I've posted pics of period knives on here before. (You can ask Dan Houde about them, I sent him 5 or 6 pages worth of pictures).They came from the Russel & Irwin Hardware catalogue of 1865. I've also posted pictures of what period shovels, axes, hatchets, can openers, civilian hobnails for shoes & boots and a few other items that people always argue about. Somehow it either gets lost in the shuffle or it gets ingnored. I think most of this stuff was lost in or was posted before the board change.

[Matt Woodburn]

Rick,

The Russell and Irwin catalog is a great eye opener and resource for sure! And Dave told me a guy named Dan who makes antique pocket knives was at the museum a week or so before me looking over the knives. Dan Houde came to my mind immediately.

These photos cover axe and hatchet head styles, and handle styles. Some of their hatchets have straight handles, while others have the same curve you'd find in a hardware store or Home Depot today. Notice the nail puller in the blade edge of one hatchet, while another has a short claw style nail puller. There is a hammer head on the back of one of the hatchet styles. I've thrown in a couple saw handles as well.

[Amtmann]

We can do a comparison...

[Steamboat Willie]

Thanks Matt,

I'm guessing that it does, but its only a guess. How else would the front of the collar stay attached to the front of the shirt. Maybe Mr. Gath can let me know. Thanks again for posting the pix, I cant stop looking at them. How cool would it have been the unearth that treasure in a corn field!

Art and Matt,

You are correct in the function of the shirt, but there is no physical proof remaining. If you look at the shirt again you will notice there are almost no buttonholes visible, save for the one on the collar itself. The buttons are sitting close to where they were originally. Still, when Flo Hawley repaired it, there was a need to obscure the corresponding holes.

This particular shirt is in pretty rough shape-- you probably can't see it, but there is mesh holding the area across the stomach together-- and it may be that she had to fold the material under to give it any kind of strength. Whatever the reason, those holes just are not there.

Almost all of the shirts we have preserved have this problem, and the same is true with the long underwear. Water just plays hell with fabric, even protein based material like wool. As a result, we only have five or six shirts done that are display worthy. And even then they have little flaws like the missing holes.

As for making a reproduction, Jay Stevens, a member of this very forum, made a fine reproduction of a similar shirt a year ago. He may be able to tell you where he purchased the wool and give you some guidance.

Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

[Arthur Stone]

Rick & Matt,

Thanks for the post and the information. I thought it looked like there was material missing on the shirt. The way it's is on display it just doesn't look like the bib would close the right way, leaving an opening in the shirt. Also on top of the shoulders it looks like there was material added. I'll be in G-Burg this weekend and go to" Needles n Thread" to see what wool they have. Hopefully they'll have a burgundy colored wool. Thanks, Art

[MustangGray]

Mr. Gath,

I too am interested in the saddle... is there a possibility you might have a picture of it? If so that would be grand!

[Matt Woodburn]

Here are a few more shots of the treasures. The first shot is essense of coffee tins and some tinned fruit cans. All the others are general shots of many things to give a little perspective of the vastness of this collection. Enjoy!

[August77]

Stinks it's a museum and not a store. I would love to walk in there and be able to say...

"let me get a couple pair of them boots, maybe some shoes, toss in a few packs of those matches, a sack of buttons, a few hats.....um, I'll take that nice shirt over there, actually do you gift wrap? It's for a buddy of mine down in Florida, he's into shirts. Ah, what the hell, throw in that shelf of tinware. Yea, fill the coffee pot with pocket knives before you bag it. What's that? Yea, paper please."

All joking aside, this is definitely on the list of places to visit before I die. Thank you Matt and everyone else who posted pictures. It's truly amazing to see this much stuff survived and is able to be conserved and displayed for all to view.

Is there a 'tourist season' out there or, I guess what I'm asking, is there a better time of year to visit than others?

Thanks again for all the pics and info!!!

[Steamboat Willie]

For those of you awaiting more info on the saddle, I am still "efforting” the request.

There is nothing in the artifact record pointing to a manufacturer nor any Maker’s mark visible on the saddle itself.

As I feared, the pertinant information is likely on the box the saddle was shipped in. There is no telling where that box even is, so it may be some time before we can nail down anything concrete.

I am going back to the museum this weekend to take some pictures for those who have been asking for them. If anyone needs a photo of something not covered by Mr. Woodburn’s excellent work – Though I cannot imagine what that might be—contact me before Saturday and I’ll see what I can do.

Best Regards,

[Matt Woodburn]

Rick,

I forgot to get pics of the light weight stamped tin spoons. Very cool. And what about the brownish shirt with the brass buttons that was where the burgundy shirt on the left is now? Would have loved to see that shirt and what buttons are on it, how attached, etc. Those two would make for some great conversation once posted.

[Steamboat Willie]

Matt,

The “Brownish “shirt actually started its life as a green shirt with alternating light and dark stripes. If my research is correct the buttons are Federal Naval Officer buttons-- Eagles holding anchors-- and of the 30 or so buttons, only three are functional. Pretty cool shirt. I will make a point to photograph it as well as the spoons.

I have been thrilled to see such interest in the Arabia as it is something I spent a fair piece of my adult life working on. I am more than happy to continue to help folks with any specifics or requests they may have. Still, I understand my interpretations and photos are going to be unsatisfying. At the end of the day, people just have to see this stuff with their own eyes.

Getting to Kansas City is probably a haul for many people, and gas prices aren’t helping. Even if you make it to the museum, the good stuff is behind glass, which itself has been obliterated by some kid with a runny nose. It’s a major bummer, I know.

I am curious what the interest level would be in having a special “non-snot” backroom tour of the museum.

It is possible for me to organize a viewing of the artifacts out of the cases, and away from the public. You would be able to photograph, measure, and in many cases hold the artifacts themselves. I’m talking any artifact, anywhere in the museum, even those in storage or seldom displayed. The cost would be merely the entrance fee for the museum.

The caveat of course is I need this to be a one-time group activity. The more the artifacts are moved, the greater our preservation dilemma. And to be quite honest, it’s a ton of work to organize and set up, so it’s also easier on me to bring everything out once. Still, it’s something I enjoy immensely, and would like to do again before I leave the museum entirely. The devil is in the details, but we can get to those if there is a big enough response.

So, is there interest in doing an event of this type?

[jgr1974]

I would make the trip for that!!!! The one opportunity I have to see the backside and to touch and tell!!! Sure count me in!

Jeremy aka The Mad MIck!

[AZReenactor]

So, is there interest in doing an event of this type? Tell me the date and I'll start organizing a carpool from the West Coast. ;-)

[Rob Murray]

Rick,

I'll be at the museum tomorrow morning at 10 am. I'm interested in a back room tour!:D

[c.irelan]

Rick.

I know that Miss. Sarah belle any myself would be very intersted in going. We are in the talking stages of making a trip as it is.

[BorderRuffian]

Rick,


Add me to your growing list of attendees.I'll hope that I can make it when scheduled.


Oh,if only Dog River offered a scroll flask for sale......................




Thanks!

[idlewild]

Tell me the date and I'll start organizing a carpool from the West Coast. ;-)If you come through colorado give me a holler, if I could get away I'd like to come. Never been there but the place looks amazing!!

[AZReenactor]

I'll keep it in mind, but we'd likely take I-40 To OK City and then head North through Wichita.

Experience has shown that I can leave here after work and be in Kansas City the next morning at 8:30 am for visiting hours at the hospital where my daughter was born. Of course it requires a new rental car that needs to be broken in and that Highway Patrol officers be elsewhere during the trip. ;-)

If you come through colorado give me a holler, if I could get away I'd like to come. Never been there but the place looks amazing!!

[Sarah Belle]

Rick.

I know that Miss. Sarah belle any myself would be very intersted in going. We are in the talking stages of making a trip as it is.

I believe Miss Nellie Cross would also be very interested in attending.

Brandi Jones
Corn Fed Comrades

[Anna Allen]

Just uploaded a bunch of pictures from when I went to see the Arabia Museum. Here's the link to the album:

http://community.webshots.com/album/563840660gybmck

Hope that link works...

Enjoy! :)

[Abrams]

I missed this topic when first posted I reckon.

Very Nice pictures! :)

I was pleased to see a bottle in the pictures that looks to be a twin of one I got at a local antique shop recently. I never know when to trust the dealer as to the real age of something like that, and I am no expert about mid 1800's bottles. Once I truly see something, I can recognize small details later, or know what to look for in reproductions.

I need to take a trip. KC ain't that far.

Thanks for bumping this one Anna :)

[JordanRicketts]

Just uploaded a bunch of pictures from when I went to see the Arabia Museum. Here's the link to the album:

http://community.webshots.com/album/563840660gybmck

Hope that link works...

Enjoy! :)

Great pictures! Love all the jeweled china buttons... Those seem really hard to find at all these days.

[Jim Miller]

Greetings Rick,

I'm sorry to be a little late responding to this thread but I almost fell out of my chair when I read that the "brownish" shirt described in the Arabia collection started its life as a green striped shirt !!

Are we taking about the shirt with the shield shaped plastron and the multitide of naval buttons? I first saw it years ago and having recently visited the museum,was a little dissapointed to find it removed. I would love to see pictures detailing the look of the original fabric.

Just a side note but it was great to hear Greg Hawley say that the Museum was finally running in the Black !!!

Yours,
Jim Miller

[1stMo Drummer]

I would LOVE to get in on a trip to see the behinde the scenes stuff there...
Livign only 2 hours south of KC ive been to the Arabia about 4 or 5 times but everytime ive learned/seen something new.

[Matthew.Rector]

Rick provided me with a first rate tour of the museum last week. As the comments and photographs suggest, the collection is more than amazing. I would love to see more items such as these in our hobby.
Where are my photographs? You all will certainly understand my disappointment when I state that my camera malfunctioned (with no chances of correction) that afternoon.
Thanks to Rick for a great visit!

[KyCavMajor]

I'll keep it in mind, but we'd likely take I-40 To OK City and then head North through Wichita.

Experience has shown that I can leave here after work and be in Kansas City the next morning at 8:30 am for visiting hours at the hospital where my daughter was born. Of course it requires a new rental car that needs to be broken in and that Highway Patrol officers be elsewhere during the trip. ;-)

Don't bother with Hertz and the new mustangs, they have the governor screwed down to 98.... uh, so they tell me. That was NOT me testing that theory in Nevada, I swear it wasn't..:rolleyes:
And the traction control is locked on too... again, so I hear...

Steamboat, is there any tang marks on the pocket knives? They are a particular addiction of mine

[VMurphy]

Rick
I'd love to visit the Arabia again and have a "behind the scenes:" tour. I'm about 6hrs. away and have family in the area. So possibly I'll be able to get a tour sometime during the summer??

Thanks to Matt, Anna, and all who posted photos. I do have the book they published but it's 7 or 8 yrs. old...There's so much more that has been conserved. It's great to see the latest displays.

It sounds like there might be enough people interested in a private tour that one for each "region of the country" might be in order. This is something that our group out of St.Louis has been discussing as a "research trip" for a couple of years, now.
Maybe we can get it organized this summer.



Regards
Vivian Murphy
http://www.themantuamaker.net

[Steamboat Willie]

All,

I have been simply amazed at the attention this thread has received since Matt started it back in May. I do not wish to detract from the original intent of his posting, so forgive me if I stray off the path too far here.

I have talked with the museum about doing a backroom tour for the AC Forum faithful. While we still have to work a out a few minor details, essentially it's a go. For anyone who ever wondered what we were hiding behind the glass, this is your chance to find out. It think it also important to note that this is probably the last tour of it's kind at the museum.

In a word, tours like this are hard, -- It's hard on the artifacts, it's hard in terms of space, and it's really hard on the guy who has been running them. -- and as such we have only offered two previous programs similar to the one I'm proposing here.

Truth be told, I'm pretty sure I only have one of these tours left in me. While you can never say never, this will be my last one. And as such, the last for the Arabia.
So I am talking about a true once in a lifetime happening.

Incidently, those attending will be charged a discounted museum entrance -- about $10 -- as their sole fee for the day. So it's a fairly affordable once in a lifetime happening.

Event Date and Reservation details to follow soon.


Best Regards,

[AZReenactor]

Looking forward to the tour opportunity. Please push the date far enough out so that those of us from far distances can plan accordingly. I'm planning on adjusting my route home from Marmaduke's Raid so that I can visit the museum on Sept. 30 but would definitely be interested in another trip East for a back room tour.

[Steamboat Willie]

Troy,

I will have the official date nailed down by the end of the week, but I have been looking for a time free of other pre-planned events, that is distant enough where folks can plan ahead.

The months of January and February are a very slow time for most museums and the Arabia is no exception. Expect the date to fall in there somewhere. I understand that a trip to Kansas City in the heart of winter doesn't sound very appealing, but it's the best time to do a program like this. I'll try to have an official posting by Saturday.

Best Regards,

[MO-Pard]

In a word, tours like this are hard, -- It's hard on the artifacts, it's hard in terms of space, and it's really hard on the guy who has been running them. -- and as such we have only offered two previous programs similar to the one I'm proposing here.

Truth be told, I'm pretty sure I only have one of these tours left in me. While you can never say never, this will be my last one. And as such, the last for the Arabia.
So I am talking about a true once in a lifetime happening.



Rick- If my schedule permits, since I have wandered around the back rooms and helped/held artifacts before, I'd be glad to help you if you need assistance.

Best Regards

[Arch Campbell]

I'm really surprised no one has mentioned my personal favorite artifacts at the Arabia yet. 4 or 5 years ago (when I was last there) they were in the very first room, with the other "stars" of the haul. They are a pair of boots, as I recall not at all child-sized but still smallish. They have on their front-tops, EMBOSSED and GILDED, the image of a mule tied to a fence at an "Old Kentucky Home" or some such. Seriously.
They are without a doubt one of the coolest clothing items from the period I have ever seen.
If anyone has an image of them to share (I'm afraid I do not, technology and I don't get along well,) I'm sure many readers will fall in love with them as I did.

[EasySam]

I'm really surprised no one has mentioned my personal favorite artifacts at the Arabia yet. 4 or 5 years ago (when I was last there) they were in the very first room, with the other "stars" of the haul. They are a pair of boots, as I recall not at all child-sized but still smallish. They have on their front-tops, EMBOSSED and GILDED, the image of a mule tied to a fence at an "Old Kentucky Home" or some such. Seriously.
They are without a doubt one of the coolest clothing items from the period I have ever seen.
If anyone has an image of them to share (I'm afraid I do not, technology and I don't get along well,) I'm sure many readers will fall in love with them as I did.

There are many wonderful things there and I have to agree with Arch that those boots were the coolest. It would be great to get a repro pair. On one of my visits to the Arabia, when Mr. Hawley spoke with us and took questions, I asked what was his favorite. He said a box full of carpenter's tools. These tools were not part of the cargo but belonged to a passenger. He said that having been a man who had worked in a trade, it created a more personal attachment. That passenger lost his livelyhood, at least for awhile. Like all of you, on each trip there I wondered what more they had and wouldn't it be neat to get to go behind the doors. If a visit can be arranged and if I would be welcome, I certainly would be there.