CS surgeon's food at Gettysburg?

[Hank Trent]

I'm having trouble finding specifics on this, so maybe someone can point me in the right direction.

Like the title says, I'm looking for mention of specific food/rations eaten by Confederate surgeons on the march to and during the battle of Gettysburg. Not what was offered to patients in hospitals, but what the surgeons themselves ate. Specifically ANV, and I can be more specific than that, but right now I'd just be happy to find anything!

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Jefferson Guards]

I would consult the following books:

Repairing the "March of Mars": The Civil War Diaries of John Samuel Apperson, Hospital Steward in the Stonewall Brigade, 1861-1865. Edited by John Herbert Roper. Transcribed by Jason Clayman, Peter Gretz, and John Herbert Roper. (Macon, Ga.: Mercer University Press, 2001.

MCMULLEN, GLENN L. The CIVIL War Letters of Dr. Harvey Black: A Surgeon with Stonewall Jackson. Baltimore, MD, U.S.A.: Butternut and Blue, 1995

[Silas]

How about oysters? There's a quote from Apperson about receiving oysters a few days before Gettysburg (http://books.google.com/books?id=LeY4lwwjRH8C&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=%22John+Samuel+Apperson%22&source=web&ots=aGWuvMYHkg&sig=SilQG247ZlhKW3P4-9oKLCv1TOI&hl=en#PPA477,M1).

I didn't notice any specifics for the month before Gettysburg in the pages available from that book online via the google preview. Certainly better than nothing.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

How about oysters? There's a quote from Apperson about receiving oysters a few days before Gettysburg (http://books.google.com/books?id=LeY4lwwjRH8C&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=%22John+Samuel+Apperson%22&source=web&ots=aGWuvMYHkg&sig=SilQG247ZlhKW3P4-9oKLCv1TOI&hl=en#PPA477,M1).

I didn't notice any specifics for the month before Gettysburg in the pages available from that book online via the google preview. Certainly better than nothing.

Hmmn...Oysters in June/July many hours from the coast/inland breeding grounds...makes you wonder if these were canned oysters.

Paul B.

[lukegilly13]

I want to second Brian's post. The author of that book, Dr. John H. Roper, was my advisor in college. Very brilliant man from UNC Chapel Hill. The book is an excellent resource for this topic...I can't wait to get home from work and look and see how much detail it gives about the oysters....I haven't really read it since I had to take a final exam on it haha.

[Hank Trent]

...I can't wait to get home from work and look and see how much detail it gives about the oysters.

Unfortunately not much. It's near Chambersburg, p. 477:

Dr. Drane & myself had a fine mess of oysters which we bought in our round [of visits to patients in campsites]

Needless to say, I asked about this topic because I'll be a surgeon's orderly/cook/knapsack carrier at At High Tide, and need to provide rations. Thanks for all the suggestions. From what I'm seeing so far (or the lack of period mentions, actually), I guess there really wasn't much remarkable about the food available at this time, and so I guess I can just go with generic food that might be typical on the march plus maybe a few officer-level treats. But if anyone knows of anything more specific, I'm still looking!

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

From what I'm seeing so far (or the lack of period mentions, actually), I guess there really wasn't much remarkable about the food available at this time, and so I guess I can just go with generic food that might be typical on the march plus maybe a few officer-level treats. But if anyone knows of anything more specific, I'm still looking!

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Hank,

I hope canned oysters will not be considered "treats", these vial things are an abomination in both texture, flavor, and smell.

Paul B.

[FranklinGuardsNYSM]

Away from home now, but it may be in Strange and Blighted... somewhere -- there's an account, I believe from a Federal prisoner, who comments on the large contingent of negro servants he saw behind the crest of Seminary Ridge busily engaged in culinary concoctions. I don't remember if he names specific items, but it is a pretty good reference to rear-echelon food preparation.

[Jefferson Guards]

From Apperson's Diary:

June 23rd: "Sent out and got some milk from an old farmer" p473

June 24th: "Our camp was near the house of a Mr. Hade, a staunch old Penn: Farmer. His chickens, as did the chickens of other farmers along the route, filled the mess kettles of many a weary soldier and his garden was protected by great efforts by a guard." p 474

[Hank Trent]

Hank,

I hope canned oysters will not be considered "treats", these vial things are an abomination in both texture, flavor, and smell.

Paul B.

Do you mean canned compared to fresh? Or any oysters?

There's a whole 'nuther topic for discussion. :) I'd say it would be just as rare for a random person in the 1860s to hate oysters, as it would be for a random person today to hate pizza or chocolate chip cookies.

So is it the cook's duty to serve only what he knows modern people are apt to like? Or is it up to those receiving food to react in typical period fashion?

You know what my answer would be. :)

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Do you mean canned compared to fresh? Or any oysters?

There's a whole 'nuther topic for discussion. :) I'd say it would be just as rare for a random person in the 1860s to hate oysters, as it would be for a random person today to hate pizza or chocolate chip cookies.

So is it the cook's duty to serve only what he knows modern people are apt to like? Or is it up to those receiving food to react in typical period fashion?

You know what my answer would be. :)

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

Hank,

Of course my comment was aimed at canned vs. fresh. I have nothing against oysters...in fact I've been known to eat my fair shair on the half-shell, steamed, stewed, in chowder etc.

Of course it's the cook's duty to serve what he knows is right for the event scenario at hand...and perhaps someone with more culinary talent than I could make the vile canned oyster more palatable.

In answer to your question...the answer has to be both. But just as in today's society, you can find those "rare" individuals who apaul pizza, chocolate, etc...and the same was so back then as well...as far as your comment about it being a rare occurance for random individuals "hating" oysters, I think alot would depend on where people were from...obviously to those from coastal or waterway communities, this would certainly be true...but for those individuals being born of the mountain regions, it would be interesting to read about their experiences with said items.

For me a choice between a canned oyster and a chicken...the choice of course would be chicken...the choice between a fresh oyster and a chicken...the answer would be both...and I'd probably have one of VA's soon to be lost "tidewater chowder's" going.

Note: From personal experience, there is little similarity between canned and fresh oysters.

Paul B.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Hank-

Reading this thread, I came to another question in my mind that I haven't seen on here yet. What would a Confederate field kitchen look like? How "paired-down" would it look compared to a US Army Field Kitchen of the period? I'd think it would again depend on what period and location. But how substitutions, alternate rations, and layout would certainly differ somewhat from a US Army Field Kitchen.

In fact, I don't think I have ever read about a "Confederate Field Kitchen"...

Any takers on this question out there either? Again, I couldn't find it on here with the search engine, but maybe I'm just blind. ;)

Thanks- Johnny

[vamick]

So is it the cook's duty to serve only what he knows modern people are apt to like? Or is it up to those receiving food to react in typical period fashion?

You know what my answer would be. :)

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

"Hungry makes a good sauce"

[LibertyHallVols]

Maybe I'm out to lunch, but the answer might be rather simple...

A surgeon probably ate what the soldiers ate.

So, what did the soldiers eat?
1) Issued rations - I'm sure there are probably plenty of references out there (and we've heard from a few) of ANV-issue rations for the campaign. I'm guessing most Rebs would have been issued some corn meal at some point in the campaign, so why not carry some of that!?

2) "Procured" items. Again, we've heard some great references. These would consist of...
- Items sent from home (probably the last of the last from a box from home by the time the ANV reached G-burg).
- Produce items in season in June/July. Not sure what these might consist of. It is a bit late for strawberries. I can recall accounts of guys getting sick on green apples (still a bit early for apples, so no wonder!). Perhaps cherries? Would sweet corn be up by then? Other veggies?
- Produce items put up or canned. These could be almost anything like beans, tomatoes, preserves, etc. as well as stored root veggies. Also, dried veggies or fruit could also be stored. Jeff Clagg has frequently given me green beans dried on a thread.

Regarding Meat - Personally, I wonder of we reenactors overdo the salt pork and bacon. While fresh beef is tough for reenactors, logistically speaking, we know that armies did drive herds along. For a surgeon, perhaps chicken is a good choice as it could represent an item "foraged" by a plucky cook. Just thinking out loud.

Anyway, I hope this was somewhat helpful. Good luck!

[Dignann]

Commentary on food during the Gettysburg Campaign, from the published letters and memoir of Dr. Thomas Fanning Wood, 3rd NC ST:

"Head Quarters near Carlisle, Penna.
June 29th Sunday 1863
Every field here is groaning under the burden of immense crops, which we are in hopes to eat. Fruit with the exception of cherries is still green but very abundant. Gooseberries and currants are just turning. Quinces, pears and such fruit as Yankee land abounds in is quite plenty.
We enjoy this rich valley. Butter, milk, etc. are plenty, and we luxuriate in them. We can buy butter for a Pa. shilling a pound in Confederate money."
Letter, pp. 102-103


"We went into camp every day at 5 or 6 o'clock, and my knapsack bearer always had a few fat hens at his gridle, and we enjoyed a chicken stew, some good Penn. bread and butter, and I believe some real coffee. Mr. Patterson, Dr. Washington and I went into mess together. "
Memoir, p. 103

-- Frank L. Byne, ed. Doctor to the Front: The Recollections of Confederate Surgeon Thomas Fanning Wood, 1861-1865 (Knoxville, Tenn.: The University of Tennessee Press, 2000)

Eric

[Becky Morgan]

In late June, you should have raspberries or blackberries, depending on the maturity in that area. Around here, black raspberries generally come in the third week of June with blackberries about a week and a half or two weeks later. Tomatoes might be getting rips, but that would depend on the weather that year. Early radishes, kale, spinach and lettuce would be in, if not starting to peter out when the weather heated up. Peas would probably be long gone. Carrots would be very small, potatoes would of course be a long way from bearing; some small beets and turnips might be available, especially if you ate the whole thing. Corn wouldn't be in the ear yet that time of year, especially given the varieties they had. Wheat might or might not be taken in by late June.

If you plan to steal chickens, you might as well steal any eggs the laying hens have if they're thinking about a second clutch. I doubt spring chickens would be big enough for thieving yet. Most all the streams would be fishable, I'd think.

[Hank Trent]

A surgeon probably ate what the soldiers ate.

So, what did the soldiers eat?
1) Issued rations -

I think that post is a pretty good summary. I recall researching for September Storm, though, and officers ate a little better than men in that situation because they could send their cooks further out to surrounding houses to buy/forage or even to fish, while the men were more confined to the roads and therefore limited to cornfields and orchards to forage from. So in that case, officers did eat better. But it sounds like in this case, there was enough to go around for everyone to forage fairly well.

Eric's post is just the kind of thing I've been looking for! Gooseberries and currants were something I hadn't thought of, but I've got some period gooseberries here, if I can keep the raccoons out of them first.

It also sure sounds like I really ought to show up with a live or recently dead hen, but I don't know if I can manage that.

However, the above mention of rations brings up another question. Am I correct that officers were not specifically issued rations, but they could purchase them? I don't think there's actually going to be a ration issue, thank goodness, because I'm not sure how that would work. As a private, I'd stand in line to get mine, but could I also pick up a ration for the assistant surgeon if he was properly charged for it? How would the paperwork go for that? Whew. This just gets more complicated. :confused:

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[hta1970]

Eric,

I was reading the same memoir today and sitting down to post what you wrote when I noticed you beat me to the punch.

Might add on pages 104-107 of the same book during the battle.

"I established a dressing at the foot of the hill in an abandoned farm house. There was a large spring at the door of the house, and everything was adapted to our purpose, and especially were secure from the fire from the front lines."

"This firing was the great great artillery drill of the 2nd day of the Battle of Gettysburg, and our hands were busy attending to the wounded of the artillery battalion - Latimer's, I believe - just on the crest over our hospital.

The proprietor of the farm house had been frightened away from home by the battle of the 1st day, and left his affairs in the hands of a boy. I don't remember the name of the farm, it was small, but in this country we always found a dairy, and we were not disappointed here. The spring house was well supplied with milk and cream, and I set my ambulance men at work, in the quiet morning of the 2nd day, to churn. I had $2.00 in greenbacks which I gave the lad privledges of the house , consisting of buttermilk and a "crock" of quince marmalade. This was our meal, for as usual we were not supplied with rations at the proper time."

"In the rear of our station was a line of battle. Among them some La. soldiers. They completed the sack of this house, even to the bee hives. They took a hive of bees in the open day between two of them, marching straight through the bivouac of men, the infuriated bees flying in every direction. After the bees had quit the hive, the plunderers sat down and destroyed the honey."

[Hank Trent]

Uh oh. My intended victim, er, I mean, officer, has found this thread. :)

Good stuff! Thank you all. This is what I was hoping to find, but just couldn't. This gives a clearer picture of specifically what kind of food would be most typical.

The spring house was well supplied with milk and cream, and I set my ambulance men at work, in the quiet morning of the 2nd day, to churn

Don't tempt me!

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[hta1970]

Hank,

We can do this as authentic as you want and if you want to fill up free time churning buttermilk I'm game.

An option for some of this "foraging" would be to work in conjunction with some people you might know, like Mrs. Lawson in the civilian camp for a foraging run to "buy"/procure pre-stocked good from us from them. Would keep you active in a period role and hopefully make sure the ambulance corps badge gets you past the provost.

And if you bring a live chicken to be killed for the pot, well that works too.

This will be a great event and a great experience. Sounds like we won't be eating too poorly, just trying to "coordinate foraged food will be interesting.