Want to build a fort?

[huntdaw]

Background - New Madrid, Missouri had two Confederate fortifications constructed in 1861 to defend the Mississippi in conjunction with Island No. 10. Ft. Thompson, the larger of the two was located near present day downtown New Madrid.

There has been talk of reconstructing the fort near where it originally was located. The river took out the original location so there is no way it can be put there but would be on the river and almost within throwing distance of the original spot. The City of New Madrid has expressed interest when approached by a local fellow who would like to see the replica made.

The Idea - Have an event in 2010 where reenactors would actually rebuild the fort - or as much as we could get done. We know the shape and size of it. I envision a possible 4 day event. Those who could be present for the whole event would do a lot of the manual labor during the first part of the time frame. Those who could only attend during the weekend could spell the men who had been slaving away earlier in the week while they pulled guard duty and rested. This could be held in August when the fort was actually being constructed but the heat and skeeters at night would be pretty bad - authentic however.:) If August won't work due to the misery factor, it could be pushed back to Sept. or Oct. since work was still going on at that time. If several hundred people attend, we could get a lot done.

What I Need - I need to know the level of interest. Not the 'sounds great, I'll think about coming' or 'good idea - I wish I could make it' interest but the "Yes, I would definitely be there unless major catastrophes get in the way" level of interest. I will approach the city if there is enough interest level expressed in the next few days to give me an idea of whether this is doable. I think it is and I also think that if the city buys into it we will receive excellent support for the endeavor. But I don't want to approach them and make a pitch if it doesn't look like there will be enough reenactor support to make it happen.

I also think a good civilian contingent would be possible since the townspeople were very supportive of the Confederacy and would have had an inherent interest in what was going on in the area.

This will tie in nicely with making New Madrid's role in the war better interpreted and would add a nice visitor attraction for the 150th anniversary.

I know there have been other events where existing forts were repaired etc. but this would be building a replica from the ground up just as the men did in 1861.

So - what do you think?

[jgr1974]

Interesting and fun! Where is New Madrid located in conjunction to St. Louis?

The Mad Mick!

[huntdaw]

New Madrid is at the top of the Bootheel - about 2.5 hours south of St. Louis and about 2 hours north of Memphis.

[MarkTK36thIL]

I'd be there for at least a weekend.

[JLHurst]

I'd be very interested. I know that's not the answer you're looking for, but for us guys on shift work it's hard to schedual vacation 2 years in advance as opposed to the, allways off on Saturday & Sundays bunch.

None the less put out some dates, I'll definitly commit. That sounds like a blast!

[Dbackfed]

sounds like a fun trip to travel for. i'd be for it.

[C.R. Henderson]

I've got tools itchin' for some more period use! Do you have any drawings of the original fort (or pictures for that matter)? That way we know what we're up against. If you get me a date, I'll put it on my calendar and come- fo sho!:D

[huntdaw]

Jeremy,

Your answer is good enough for me. I know you'll stand by your word if you can.

Chris,

I believe I can get my hands on the specs and copies of the plans pretty easily.

[Western Blue Belly]

Mr. Comer if we can make this happen then I will certainly be there for this. New Madrid is a great little town and I had a load of fun at the LH earlier this year. Just imagine a LH in a fort we built!!

[Bushrod Carter]

Michael,

I have a little experience rebuilding forts. :rolleyes:

I think this is a GREAT idea…if you can sell the idea to enough re-enactors to MAKE them WANT to participate, sweat, develop blisters, and generally wear themselves out over a four day event. The event would be about building a fort, but there has to be more depth to it than that to get a LARGE group of WILLING soldiers to participate.

And, if you want to make any headway on actual construction you will have to do it in the fall of the year. We worked on Ft. Granger in early May and the heat almost got the best of us at that time.

Finally, be mindful of how much work 200 men can do in a day of hard labor AND historic proportions for earthen fortifications – NOT what reenactors think of “earthworks.” At Granger we had 90 men working in rotations, so we effectively had about 30 men moving dirt at any given time ALL day. Thirty men, working all day – effectively 240 man hours of labor – managed to move and compact enough dirt to fill an hole approximately 10x20x8 feet (59 cubic yards).

Again, this is a GREAT idea and one that I would gladly participate in, just be mindful of what 200 reenactors can and cannot do in the course of four days.

Please do not take this the wrong way. I am a FIRM BELIEVER in How do you eat and elephant (build a fort)? One bite (shovel) at a time! This CAN happen!

[huntdaw]

Patrick,

I appreciate your insight. I know that we would not build the whole thing in 4 days. They didn't get that done and they had a lot more men than we would have. But, perhaps we could do a wall, a gun emplacement etc. Or maybe revisit it over a couple of times. The city may move a little of the dirt for us to give us a headstart. That can be worked out once approval is granted.

I do agree that fall might be the best time. August here is beastly. Late Sept. or early Oct. would probably work best.

I will be attending the Chamber of Commerce Board meeting tomorrow since I am a board member and plan on going to the city council meeting tomorrow evening and pitch the idea. I'll let everyone know how it goes.

[Coatsy]

Michael,

I'll be there. As soon as the event is set I'll set the time aside. And I'll bring Team Georgia as well.

[boozie]

Sounds like a good time to me, name the dates.

[Will Eichler]

I'm in. Let me know when and I'll see what I can do to bring some chaps from the MI area.

Best,

Will

[23rdIllinoisIrish]

Mike,
I'm just up the road. Let me know when something is set in stone.
Thanks,
Matt Shomaker

[Abrams]

Count me in.

I think this would be a great way to spend a weeks vacation. Re-building a small piece of history that in future years you can look back on, and know you had a part of? Very Cool.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Background - New Madrid, Missouri had two Confederate fortifications constructed in 1861 to defend the Mississippi in conjunction with Island No. 10. Ft. Thompson, the larger of the two was located near present day downtown New Madrid.

There has been talk of reconstructing the fort near where it originally was located. The river took out the original location so there is no way it can be put there but would be on the river and almost within throwing distance of the original spot. The City of New Madrid has expressed interest when approached by a local fellow who would like to see the replica made.

The Idea - Have an event in 2010 where reenactors would actually rebuild the fort - or as much as we could get done. We know the shape and size of it. I envision a possible 4 day event. Those who could be present for the whole event would do a lot of the manual labor during the first part of the time frame. Those who could only attend during the weekend could spell the men who had been slaving away earlier in the week while they pulled guard duty and rested. This could be held in August when the fort was actually being constructed but the heat and skeeters at night would be pretty bad - authentic however.:) If August won't work due to the misery factor, it could be pushed back to Sept. or Oct. since work was still going on at that time. If several hundred people attend, we could get a lot done.

What I Need - I need to know the level of interest. Not the 'sounds great, I'll think about coming' or 'good idea - I wish I could make it' interest but the "Yes, I would definitely be there unless major catastrophes get in the way" level of interest. I will approach the city if there is enough interest level expressed in the next few days to give me an idea of whether this is doable. I think it is and I also think that if the city buys into it we will receive excellent support for the endeavor. But I don't want to approach them and make a pitch if it doesn't look like there will be enough reenactor support to make it happen.

I also think a good civilian contingent would be possible since the townspeople were very supportive of the Confederacy and would have had an inherent interest in what was going on in the area.

This will tie in nicely with making New Madrid's role in the war better interpreted and would add a nice visitor attraction for the 150th anniversary.

I know there have been other events where existing forts were repaired etc. but this would be building a replica from the ground up just as the men did in 1861.

So - what do you think?

Very cool idea...!

Scope?

Any idea as to the extent of the tools needed; axes, broad axes, adzes, mattocks, picks, pulleys, ropes, shovels...etc.?

Were the walls of the fort Earthen fortifications (Earth fill, "sandbags", gabions), a Palisade, combination of these, something else...etc.?

Paul B.

[AndrewMartin]

Yes, I would attend this for the 4 full days based on getting an actual date set for it.

[tr17]

Michael,
Count me in for two days .....if in the fall possibly four in the summer.
Tim Ruyle

[Motown]

My mess's civilian impression specializes in digging, and this event is far enough away to plan attending succesfully (Outpost snuck up on us), so count a few more from Michigan in.

I also have a garage full of quasi-period tools; shovels, picks, mattocks, saws, etc. However, I'm afraid that some may not be period correct. Will guidelines be posted as to what types of tools will be acceptable be posted as the event draws closer?

I would miss a whole season of events to attend this one.

Thanks,
Andrew

[Campjacksonboy]

Mike
You know I'll be there.
Frank

[huntdaw]

I appreciate everyone's response.

I pitched the idea to the Chamber of Commerce board today who supported it with much enthusiasm. That was the easy part. The difficult part will come tonight when I go in front of the city council to pitch it to them.

[Rmhisteach]

Mike,

I am in . I will work on my comrades.

RM

[Steamboat Willie]

Mike,

The extreme Northwest Chapter of the Guards will arrive in force. You can count on us!

[huntdaw]

Well, the city council liked the idea and will support such an effort. They want to see some plans, cost estimate etc.

This may or may not happen because there are still some hurdles to cross, but I am going to begin working on it and shooting for an October 2010 date.

Thanks to all that have expressed interest.

[BrianHicks]

Michael,

The WIG will be looking for a good event for the later part of 2010. The efforts we put forth to rebuild (in period fashion) the washed out section of the earthen wall at Granger in '06 was greatly received by all who participated. What you are proposing is on a much greater scale, and would be well worth the effort.

Please keep us advised as it may be worth us proposing this as an event for the Bn. in 2010.

[Shantyman]

I like the idia. It to me would also be worth a "vacation" to go up and work on this project. Sounds like and good adventure actually.

[trippcor]

Certainly an interesting event idea and one I would plan to attend. As Brian said the WIG is looking for events for 2010 and this might be one to consider if you will have us.

[thad gallagher]

Sounds like a great experience. I'm in.

[Eureka Independent]

Hi Michael,

Man what a fantastic event idea! Count me in!

Don S

[prestontoprail]

Being only 2 hours away, you can count me in!

[pineyboy]

"Yes, I would definitely be there unless major catastrophes get in the way" !!!!!!!!!!

[Rmhisteach]

Hi Michael,

Man what a fantastic event idea! Count me in!

Don S

Don,

I am sure that we will need an injunear for the project. :)

RM

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

I would most certainly try to get out to this event.

[C.R. Henderson]

Michael,
any updates?

[huntdaw]

At this point, all interested parties are pretty much on board with the idea. The big hurdle of course will be the land. That one is being worked on. There is enthusiasm for the project among the city council and the chamber of commerce so that's one big potential sticking point out of the way. With them backing the idea, I think the land will take care of itself.

I will post any info I get on this thread until the project is a definite go and then will begin one in the events forum.

[Erik]

What an interesting proposal. I teach site engineering at a college and have studied and researched 19th century field engineering. I had the honor of planning and laying out nearly 600' of parapet and two batteries in New York some years ago. I regularly lecture my company on terminology and methods of constructing gabions and other revetments during winter drill. I own a very similar to period Keuful and Esser Transit with solid wooden legs and a Gunter's chain. I have also made a field level for checking the slopes of the parapets under construction. I would be delighted to assist in tracing the profile and checking the progress of this work.
Are we talking about a redan or a star fort and how many batteries?
The dimensions are clearly laid out in readily available works on the subject and only require orientation to the ground once the work is shown as to its direction and composition.
As to the amount of work that can be done the manuals suggest that 25 men can construct 50' of parallel in a minimum of 5 hours and a maximum of 13 hours depending on the soil. As I have not seen the soil type but assume it to be alluvial I would tend toward the minimum time, that is unless clay is encountered. The City engineering department should be able to furnish a soil profile so that accurate estimates can be made of work to be accomplished, phases of work, amount of revetment required determined by the angle of repose of the soil and depth of ground water.
I should be available at that time for at least a week and with the aid of a couple of willing hands trace the profile and be able to assist in instruction of the soldiers doing the work.
Keep in touch as this project progresses.
Highly interested,

Erik Simundson

[hpotter]

Sounds like a great event. You can count me in. I should be able to drag a group of guys from Middle TN up that way.

[SouthernIllinoisGuard]

I would love to build a fort. There is a handful of us from right across the way in Southern Illinois who would do all four days count me in.

[Huck]

Shot in the dark:

My pards and I (those stuck out here in Colorado) are in the planning process of beingn our own earthworks. What I am seeking from members of the A.C personal photos, either directly or via web sites (not talking period photos, I can find then via the L.O.C) of works they have built or done events in, either L.H or EFUBU. We don't have 1000 men or an armies were with all do construct our. I am seeking ideas from non-period photos or works, that I can match up to period photos of redoubts, bbrest works and trenches.

I have looked at the photos from the Lazy Jacks Mess and some from Pamplin Park and those from the LOC. Just to give you some idea of what I am seeking, If I remember right, there might be rebuilt trenches in Vicksburg etc........

[Gery Barker]

Sir,
I would be available in August. I could bring some proper tools and if needed, four oxen and a wagon. I designed Martin's Station and managed the building of it and have built homesteads (both log and sod), cabins, and worked on a couple of other log forts. Please keep me informed.
Gery BArker
Wagoner

[huntdaw]

Well, I met with the manager of an agricultural place here in New Madrid. Why? Because that business sits on the land that is the closest to where Ft. Thompson was located. He is open to the idea and will present it at a board of directors meeting next week.

If they are affirmative then one of several scenarios might happen:
1. We will be allowed to build something that they may tear down if they need the property to expand operations.
2. We will be allowed to build something and if it is still there in the future, we can use it or build on to it.
3. We will be allowed to build something but the conditions imposed may make it not feasible.

I will let folks know what happens. This area is probably the only place where land would be available and we would probably end up working on a "portion" of the fort with no chance of an entire structure ever being duplicated. Any other potential property in the area is governed by the levee district who can be very difficult to work with on anything. But, I'll try if this falls through.

The property is not in the most pristine place. While it is on part of the Mississippi that part is the Port of New Madrid which is a slackwater offshoot protected by a large island about where Ft. Thompson was originally. So, there is a large agricultural business on the north side with elevators etc. and a group of petroleum type tanks on the south side with this green area in between the two, so there would be a lot modern intrusions in the way. I would hope that would not dampen interest/enthusiasm of potential attendees.

This little idea of mine might end up being unfeasible but we'll see.

[Erik]

I look forward to the opportunity to do a trace, intrusions or not. I shall watch this post for developments.

Erik Simundson
4th Mich. Co. C.

[huntdaw]

I've received permission from the ag company that owns a spot of open ground along the river to build what we can of a fort for our event. So, here's what I'm thinking.

The location is about as close as we will get to the oringal spot that Ft. Thopmson was on since that was taken away by the Mississippi in the late 1890's.

I'm still thinking of a 4 day event (mid-day Wed. to mid-day Sunday) to allow for people to participate as much as they can.

There are a lot of modern intrusions around the property but this is probably the only place we're going to get to dig up. As I said, it's original ground between where Ft. Thompson and Pope's siege lines were located.

All the company asks is that I have sufficient event insurance to cover their liability and that we understand that if they ever need to expand they get to tear down whatever we have built. They are willing to let stand whatever we construct to be added on to in later years if that is something we would desire - sort of an ongoing work in progress.

I am looking at October 2010 for this event - possibly the 3rd week/weekend. That is open for discussion though but I would like to nail it down asap. October will give us better chance at good weather without having the mosquitoe be so bad.

Ft. Thompson was built by Missouri State Guard which gives a lot of leeway for uniforms - or lack thereof - and equipment.

Planning this thing should be an adventure:)

Let me know what you all think.

[Thomas Alleman]

Build a fort you say, in MO you say, with period tools you say, in four days you say, ok I will bring the backhoe or a regular one and lets build a fort I say.

Building Forts since 1861, MSG.

[Abrams]

I will take vacation time to do this. I'm in. :)

[Campjacksonboy]

This keeps sounding better especially if all the people with the expertise who have posted earlier are involved.
If MSG is the impression I'll bring the flag.
Frank

[Thomas Alleman]

Here is a little info on the fort and battle.

http://warandgame.files.wordpress.com/2008/03/island10.jpg

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.showme.net/~fkeller/quake/images/nmcivilwarmap.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.showme.net/~fkeller/quake/mapscivilwar.htm&usg=__ZbWnx98a95ORoZqPtD03W8RJwAs=&h=770&w=616&sz=124&hl=en&start=2&sig2=_HtcQQVP54Uh1HfBq9F6uQ&um=1&tbnid=wcPUrEuI7QCy5M:&tbnh=142&tbnw=114&prev=/images%3Fq%3DFort%2Bthompson%2Bat%2BNew%2BMadrid%2 6hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26rlz%3D1T4TSHB_enUS246US246 %26sa%3DN%26um%3D1&ei=vhn2SYHoGpGOMt7NlcQP

[huntdaw]

Just a note to look in the 2011 folder. The event will be in October of that year with a very early war event to be held in 2010. I'm trying to get things to correlate with the 150th anniversary of the actual happenings. Plus, it will give me more time to do the fort event which I have a feeling is going to take a lot of prep work.

[David Dalton]

Mike,
You can count on me and in fact ill talk it up to the River Rats. We consist of about 5 -7 young lads who would love to do as much work as we can to build a fort.

I mean how often do you get a chacne to build a FORT!!!

I am all game for a chance to do a four day event.

I am sure the Corn Feds will be ther in force...and im sure the Rats will be there aswell.

See you very soon...


Chris Jebb


P.s. How do I start a new thread/post?

[artilleryman07]

This is a fantastic Idea, I imagine that I may be able to throw on some gray for a weekend to help do a little work. But as was previously posted keep in mind that people can only do so much work in a day. I strongly urge against doing the work in August but late September would probably be a better choice. Having done my own fair share of construction work I know that August is one dang hard month work work in. But if you get that set up and get dates set I will be sure to show up.

Dave Nolan