Where to Shellac an 1858 Dress Hat?

[Matthew Semple]

I have used the search function many times over the past week with various entries but have not come up with an answer to the following question and cannot find the answer in articles that examined extant surviving specimens.

For the M1858 Dress Hats (Hardee Hats) that had shellac applied while being made for contracts, was the shellac applied to all parts of the hat with the brim folded down or one side folded up (as per regulations) and allowed to dry?

I have examined three original Hardee Hats and none of them appeared to have ever had shellac applied to them. These hats were in a condition off almost completely deteriorated to pristine with brass (I assumed that that one was surplus since no name was attached).

Any help from those who have examined hats with shellac applied is greatly appreciated.

[JustRob]

Several years ago, an A/C forum member attempted to shellac his hat using a period recipe.

As I recall, the AAR began with the words, "Someone owes me a new hat."

[Hank Trent]

I recently got some Zinsser natural shellac in a spray can, which is supposedly just natural shellac in alcohol, to shellac a straw hat, and needless to say I couldn't resist trying it on my felt hat as well. When applied in a small amount, it stiffened and waterproofed the hat slightly, but really wasn't visible. If I didn't know it was on there, I couldn't really tell.

Don't know if that means I didn't apply enough, or it wasn't the right stuff, or if in fact it's not supposed to be all that obvious when it is applied.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@voyager.net

[threepdr]

I've shellacked hats successfully with 1 part natural shellac to 4 parts alchohol.

Later I learned a trick from my Drill Sergeants when I was a company commander in the Army. They still "shellacked" hats but they did it with unsented hairspray. Different formula but same result. They would liberally spray thier brown Drill Sgt's hats with cheap hair spray, put them in a wooden form and BAKE THEM IN THE OVEN! :eek: They baked them at low temps, about 200 or 250 degrees or so. Their hats were alway crisp and stiff with no sign of anything having been applied to them.

I used the hair spray trick for several years after that to keep my Hardee in good order. A good rain storm will wash both shellac and hair spray out very quickly.

[Matthew Semple]

Thanks to those who have responded.

Let me just say that I have shellacked hats before with period recipees and am NOT looking how to shellac or what recipees to use. I am reposting my question from the original post:

For the M1858 Dress Hats (Hardee Hats) that had shellac applied while being made for contracts, was the shellac applied to all parts of the hat with the brim folded down or one side folded up (as per regulations) and allowed to dry?

I will reword it for sake of clarity: For original contract Hardee Hats was the brim folded up before shellac was applied or were they shellacked with the brim down?

[threepdr]

Matthew,

I don't believe the soldiers did the shellacking. That was done at the hattery. They were issued bare of insignia, so the answer would be they were shellacked with the brim down long before (if ever) the brass eagle that holds the brim up was attached.

[Matthew Semple]

Mark,

Thanks for the input.

The hattery definitely did the shellacking. Soldiers did not.

Whenever I have used a period recipe to shellac a wool felt or fur felt hat it became so stiff that bending the brim was nearly impossible. In fact, on my first attempt several years ago I nearly ruined a hat brim because it cracked when I went to bend it up after allowing just one coating to dry with the brim down.

My question comes out of that accident. If the hat is so stiff after being shellacked, does that mean that the hattery bends it up before shellacking or do they not shellac the brim at all so that it can be bent up by the soldiers later on?

[Rear Guard]

Probably in the garage would be best. Definitely not on the living room rug.

[Matthew Semple]

Probably in the garage would be best. Definitely not on the living room rug.

Funny...My living room rug has had a lot worse things done on it.


So this thread does not get off of topic (again) and transferred to The Sinks, the "where" in the thread title is in reference to shellacking the brim or not...as previously asked in this authenticity discussion.

[AZReenactor]

Mu suspicion is that they were probably not finished with the brim pre-folded. My basis for this is that the correspondence requesting army hats for the 1st California Cavalry and Infantry from Benicia Arsenal in 1861 does not seem to differentiate between hats for footman or horseman despite the fact that regulations I believe called for them to be folded up on opposite sides.

But that is merely my set of suppositions, others mileage may vary.

[CompanyWag]

FWIW,

None of the original hats I examined for the article I wrote years ago for the CompanyWag showed the evidence of shellac. I had assumed at the time that the shellac was applied as a simple sizing and most traces of it would have disappeared as it was absorbed into the material...not to render the felt into something as stiff and unpliable as old leather.

All evidence I have seen indicates that hats were issued with flat brims without any trimming other than the ribbon. As noted earlier, there was no difference in quartermaster lists between mounted hats and those of footmen...even though the brim was folded on different sides at various times. Also, hats and insignia were different items of issue & if insignia was drawn, it was up to the soldier (or unit) to apply insignia...thus accounting for the wide variation in insignia placement. IMO, the hat blanks offered on sutler's row with the sides looped up are a modern notion.

As an interesting side note, (and indicating a consistent thought pattern in the military) the army continued to issue hats completely plain and unshaped well into the WW1 period. I've seen a motion picture clip of doughboys being issued campaign hats...and the hats were "open crowned" with no pinch! The "Montana Peak" was applied after issue.

Paul McKee

[rogue]

Paul,
If you recall the hats Don Rademacher produced, he did use shellac on them, but after a brisk Wisconsin rain the treatment went south, leaving no remains visable to the eye.
Steve Sullivan

[CompanyWag]

Greetings Steve!

Yes I do remember the Rademacher hats...as well as his very fine forage caps. He was definitely a rare craftsman. Is he still around?

Paul McKee

[rogue]

Paul,
Around, but dropped out of the warwa. I still have one of his Artifake caps, out aging on the woodpile!
Works in a factory producing custom air conditioner filters to be used in huge industrial sites.
When he gets into reenacting it is as a WWII Russian, and that is seldom.
How the mighty have fallen!
Cheers,
Steve Sullivan

[BattF 1]

Matthew,

"The inflexible material of the hat made it break where the side was turned up. ... Sometimes the soldier creased a pleat in the top, ... This broke it in two, and let in the rain." Extracted from " The Drums of the 47th" pg 14, by Robert J Burdette.

Sounds like what you've experienced.

Jim Borland

[Matthew Semple]

Jim,

Thank you so much for posting that quote.

That appears to be exactly what happened to my hat a few years ago. I tossed it right after that happened but now wish I still had it as an example of the information you shared.

[Poor Private]

This is a funny topic for me. Why? Because I just came in from outside and restiffened my derby. What did I use? As you can tell I live in Michigan, and just 1 1/2hours south of me in Indianna is a place called Shipshawanna (Amish Country). A couple of years ago I bought a dress derby at a place called Yoders General Store and asked the gentleman behind the counter what he uses. He said he doesn't display it but if anyone asks for a stiffener he sells it. It is called "Felt Hat Stiffener" By Scout made in Sulfer Springs TX. distributed by M&F Western Products Inc. Only cost me a few bucks for a 8oz spritzer bottle. The only ingerdients listed are Ethyl Alcohol, and Isopropyl Alcohol. I have used it a few times when my derbies got loose. When they dry out it's like wearing a hard hat. It will last you a long time.
But it does smell like hair spray going on.

[Arch Campbell]

The dress hats were almost certainly issued without any of the sides turned up, as different branches (i.e. infantry) had different requirements in that regard. The shellac (in those that had it) was applied as part of the manufacturing process.
I still have an Artifakes Hardee from the early 90s- in fact I still wear it, though it needs to be retired as it is now gray! It had a little shellac in it, I added more- 1:1 shellac to denatured alchohol worked fine. Be sure to do this in a well ventilated area! That is if you want to- I devoured that issue of the Wag when it first came out and somehow I never got the part about the absence of shellac. Paul, feel free to slap your forehead at the futility of trying to enlighten the terminally confused, if you like.
I also still own an Artifakes haversack from the same era, I finally retired it two years ago. The bag itself is still in good shape after many hard campaigns, but the paint is finally wearing off.
Mr. McKee, it's good to still see your name about! We were comrades for awhile, though you wouldn't remember me (I was a 'Sill for about five years or so, late 80s-early 90s.)

[CompanyWag]

Arch,

Thanks be to your avatar, I do recognize you. I'm glad to see you are still active and in good company as well. I do miss many of the pards and the large, grand times we had.

Regarding the original topic: I've been doing some reading regarding sizing for felt hats and have noticed that shellac is still commonly used in the modern manufacture of dress hats and western hats...particularly for stiffening the brim. One manufacturer noted that in the steaming and pressing of the hat, the shellac (already in the felt) was "activated" and made the hat hold its shape.

Paul McKee