Carrying Flags

[lukegilly13]

One of my many projects that I have taken on this summer is flags. Is there anyone out there who has access to an original flag, has viewed serveral original flags, or really knows the history of them that could answer the following questions:

1. What is the most common material that flags were made from during the period and does this material change from various confederate (state, regimental, national, etc) to U.S. flags?

2. Are stars and stripes seperate material sewn on or are they more commonly painted on? If fabric, are the stars multiple pieces of fabric or one solid piece?

3. Is lettering (confederate) most commonly painted on and if so, is the paint an oil base or would it be correct to paint words on using the same "paint" one would use for say a haversack/knapsack,ground cloth?

I also want to open the floor for debate on the number of flags that would be present on a given field....obviously this would depend on the size of the battle, but when did "groups" of soldiers take flags? In other words, what justifies needing/requiring/carrying a flag (a unit, a chore, a regiment, a brigade, a foraging detail, etc)?

[rebjeb04]

Hey Luke,

I encourage what your trying to do because I think that authentic made flags are a little under-represented, especially when even soldiers themselves carried little bible flags that were carried in their personal gear. Companies even had flags, however, only about the size of a modern bandana.

I think they were made from mostly silk, early on, but home-procurred, I reacon they could be from cotton and other items. It would be best for you to check out the Texas Civil War Museum in Ft. Worth. I've slowly been adding images of stuff I seen there a few months ago on my personal page. I saw one that even had stars machine sewn on and was from the War! They had several flags on display when I was there. Probably the largest collection west of da Sipp. I have had some of the same interest as you having researched, Lt. Augustus Larrentree of Arkansas, and a K.G.C. member. Larrentree, was a sign painter and wallpaper hanger in Little Rock before the War. He was major of the Knights of the Golden Circle, Arkansas Battalion in 1860-61. He painted most of the battle honors on western Confederate flags of the A.O.T.

Maybe, someone else here can post some more details and techniques on period flag construction. I know I'd be interested.

Good Luck,

[BrianHicks]

If I'm not mistaken, (at least with the Infantry branches, in both Federal and Confederate Armies) the Regiment was the smallest element authorized to have a distinct Flag. From what I have read, when parts (ie several of the Companies) of that regiment were detached, the Flag remained with the HQ element.

[huntdaw]

A variety of materials were used for Confederate flags: silk, cotton and bunting. It depends on when, where and who you are representing with the flag.

Try this website for some good info on Confederate flags. http://www.confederateflags.org/index.html

[rogue]

A good source for color photos and information on flags, primarily Federal, is www.regimentalcolors.net
They make and sell repro flags, but have a great deal of research material on their website as well.
Steve Sullivan

[rebjeb04]

If I'm not mistaken, (at least with the Infantry branches, in both Federal and Confederate Armies) the Regiment was the smallest element authorized to have a distinct Flag. From what I have read, when parts (ie several of the Companies) of that regiment were detached, the Flag remained with the HQ element.

Was it always this way in the Confederate ranks. Our Battalion is the only one allowed to carry colors, but most of our companies do have flags in some form. 22nd Arkansas, 16th Arkansas, etc. These are variations of the 1st national pattern. However, would it have been okay for a well known company to carry a guidon or some small banner? Gen'l. Mouton had a small flag, I remember seeing at his home in Lafayette, La. It was homemade from fine silk, and embroidered, and measured about 12" x 20" or so. Really small!

Thanks,

[huntdaw]

It sounds like your companies are carrying regimental colors. The designations you list are regiments not companies. If every company carried colors there would be no need for a 'color company' in a regiment would there?

We have battalions carry colors in the hobby because we don't have the numbers to make regiments. In effect, our battalions become regiments for the sake of the portrayal I suppose.

There were some uses of small flags for guides and some used in camps but I don't think they were seen much on campaign.

Once again, like anything we discuss impression-wise it will depend on who when and where you are portraying.

[yeoman]

Sir, good luck with this project and if I may, U.S. Army Regulations, Article XLIX, Arms of the United States, 1463; Article L, Flags, Colors, Standards, Guidons, 1464 through 1469, http://www.usregulars.com/regs_armscolors.html is a good start. Also, Http://www.jeffbridgman.com/html/articles004.htm has a nice article on materials. Try googleing "civil war flag bunting", lots of stuff here and go to page five "information flag terms". Here is a little something from the Time Life series by Ronald H. Bailey,"To asses the odds, Jackson rode to the edge of the West Woods for a look at the Federal right flank. He asked for a volunteer to shinny up a tall hickory tree. Private William S. Hood 35th North Carolina stepped forward. "How many troops are over there?" Jackson called up to young Hood. "Oceans of them!" exclaimed Hood. "Count the flags, sir!" Jackson said sternly. Hood began counting the flags-- two to each regiment, the Union and the regimental colors-- while Federal sharpshooters popped away at his perch atop the tree. The flags Hood saw were those of Franklin's recently arrived VI Corps. When Hood reached 39, Jackson said: "That will do, come down, sir."

[lukegilly13]

Mel,
Fantastic quote! and Fantastic information on the site.....
Keep 'em coming boys...i'm trying to compile an article that is of the quality to submit on here.

[Busterbuttonboy]

Luke
Ive been sewing flags for a few years now. Pop me a line and we will chat!
Drew
dgreb2@aol.com

[ritoews]

Hello Luke,

The study of Civil War flags has come a long way in the past few years, but like uniforms, the more one studies the increasingly complex the picture becomes. Interestingly, Confederate flags are generally far better covered in the literature. As has been pointed out "confederateflags.org" is a good start. This source can be supplemented by Howard Madaus, The Battle Flags of the Confederate Army of Tennessee, 1976. However, since this book was written, new research has provided a lot of new material (I’ve put in margin notes that refer to new findings on just about every page of my copy). So far there unfortunately has not been any similar study done on the flags of the ANV. Madaus had been working on such a work for about 20 years, but since his untimely passing we can only hope it will eventually see print.

Federal flags are much less well served. The Union volume of Echoes of Glory gives a brief overview of Federal flags. The illustrations therein should be used alongside Chapter IX in Volume 2 of Richard Sauers, Advance the Colors, Pennsylvania Civil War Battle Flags, 1991 to give a somewhat better overview. But the best single source is still Howard Madaus, “The Conservation of Civil War Flags: The Military Historian’s Perspective” in Pennsylvania Capitol Preservation Committee, Flag Symposium: Papers presented at the Symposium, Harrisburg, PA, October 29-30, 1987, 1988.

The following is a very sort summary of Federal flags: The Quartermaster Department obtained flags through three depots: New York, Philadelphia and Cincinnati. These depots each utilized their own pattern for both the national and regimental flags. These patterns were in turn further modified by the various sub-contractors that the depots used for the actual manufacturing of the flags.

The New York Depot’s suppliers were the firm of Alexander and William Brandon and the company owned by William Scheible. While both of these companies produced an identical pattern of regimental flag their national colours were different.

The Philadelphia Depot obtained flags from four sources. Samuel Brewer had been the primary pre-war contractor and continued to supply a limited number of flags. Brewer was rapidly superseded by Horstmann Bros. and by the company of Evans & Hassall. The latter two companies produced identical national colours, but had noticeable variations in their regimental flags. William Scheible also manufactured an almost identical national flag but is not believed to have made any regimental colours.

The sub-contractors working for the Cincinnati Depot were Longly and Bro. and John Shiletto. The national flags these two companies made were identical but the regimental flags differed.

Flags were also purchased by both individual states as well as private organizations. Both Horstmann Bros. and Evans & Hassall supplied a large number of flags to these purchasers, very often of a pattern only slightly modified from the flags they supplied to the Philadelphia Depot. Tiffany and Co. provided a number of beautifully embroidered national and regimental flags as did the New York company of Paton. In New England the Boston firm of Charles Eaton supplied national and regimental flags of a distinction pattern (with a number of variations) to Massachusetts, Vermont and New Hampshire. In the west Gilbert Hubbard of Chicago and Hugh Wilkins of Louisville provided their own patterns of both national and regimental colours to a number of mid-western regiments.

For the most part each of the different patterns and/or suppliers of flags can be recognized by the flags iconography. But bear in mind that when looking at collections of Federal flags there are always a good number of flags that do not fall into these categories. As well, even within the established patterns there are a wealth of subtle variations.

Finally, in (generalized) response to your questions:

1. Confederate flags were usually made from wool bunting. Federal flags were almost always made from silk.

2. The stripes on the US national flags were separate strips of silk. The stars were embroidered (Tiffany) or, more commonly, painted on with gold or white paint.

3. I can only say that ANV flags with battle honours and/or a unit designation applied by the Richmond Depot had the letters done with oil based paints. My understanding of both “haversack paint” and artist oil paints is that both use linseed oil as the suspension material.

4. Although company flags were found on the battlefield very early in the war, the use of flags was soon restricted (with different degrees of success) to a single regimental colour for the Confederates and a national and a regimental flag for Federal units.

All the above primarily deals with infantry flags. Cavalry and artillery guidons and standards are another topic altogether. I hope this rather simplified overview can give you at least a start on your research.

Ryan Toews

[WestTN_reb]

An interesting side note about what size unit would carry a flag, here's a little except from Hardee's 1855:

38. In battalions with less than five companies present, there will be no color-guard, and no display of colors, except it may be at reviews.

Just tossing that out there for what it's worth.

[hardeeflag]

38. In battalions with less than five companies present, there will be no color-guard, and no display of colors, except it may be at reviews.

that was the quote I was looking for. I know there are several southern battalion units who carried colors but they tended to be of at least 5 companies except some of the "official" Sharpshooter Battalions in the western armies. Arn't the surviving US Regulars unit colors that served in the AoC of battalion strength?

[jchristiansen]

Luke,

There are a number of books in print about flags published by both large and amateur presses.

The Museum of the Confederacy printed a catalog of their flag collection a number of years ago. It's out of print but I ususally see it for sale by CW book dealers. You could also request your local library to obtain it through inter-library loan.

Most states that participated in the war maintain a collection of their flags from the war. They're usually maintained by the state archives, but sometimes different states use different agencies. In Alabama, it's the State Archives. In South Carolina, it's the South Carolina Confederate Relic Room. Can't remember who handles it in New York, but one of their agencies is THE flag conservation lab in the country. Regardless, by contacting the state archives or department of hsitory, they should be able to direct you where you need to go.

These agencies may have actalogs or accession info they can share with you that provides details of construction.

As for company flags, most company flags I've seen were presentation banners that very rarely made it to the battlefield. They fell out of use and were returned home as soon as the volunteer companies were organized ionto regiments. I've got the presentation flag of the Norfolk Light Artillery Blues in the next room as I write. You could look at some regimental histories to get some background of individual examples of flags and flag presentation ceremonies.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Luke,

If your'e serious about producing authentic CS flags...then it is absolutely essential that you plan a trip to Richmond and the Museum of the Confederacy. A simple appointment with their flag conservation department will get you within breathing distance to these honered relics.

This special oppurtunity will give you more answers as to the construction, than most on here will be able to relay to you through words or pictures.

Paul B.

[Enfilade]

"While preparing to leave Asheville, the Buncombe Riflemen received new Confederate colors, a gift from six young ladies of Asheville. The daughters of militia Col. Nicholas Woodfin and four of their friends stitched the flag, using material from their own silk dresses. Miss Anna Woodfin and her father presented the flag to Captain W.W. McDowell and the Riflemen in a public ceremony that moved the stoutest heart to sympathy and tears. The Buncombe Riflemen later became the color company for the state's first regiment(1st NC Volunteers) and carried this flag on the first battlefield of the Civil War."(Bethel)
"More Terrible Than Victory" by Craig Chapman

Mark Berrier
North State Rifles
http://www.northstaterifles.com

[the other nathan]

If you are ever in MN, stop by our capital. In the rotunda, we have the flags of our Civil War regiments proudly displayed. I haven't look recently but if i recall, the stars were each a single piece of fabric sewn on.

[Parault]

I have as close a copy of the 3rd Ark flag as you can get. It is the standard Artillery flag dimensions. The original has each star hand sewn. The flag was made by the ladies of Fredericksburg. Every change of color is a differant piece of hand sewn cloth. On one side of the flag ( if you were looking at the flag flying in the wind the print would be on the side in which the pole would be on your right) is 3rd Ark. It is in the center of the flag covering the center star reading from the bottom to the top. It too is a separate piece of material with the lettering painted on. This flag has been scrutinized very closely many times. I made arrangements to view the flag the Monday before we left Arkansas going to G'burg. It is all cotten.
We carry the flag only when we go east of the river in ANV country. The rest of the time it stays at my house furled in a temp regulated area.

[SGTMohney]

If you are interested in reproducing any Pennsylvania flags, you can make an appointment with the Capital Preservation Commitee in Harrisburg, PA. They have almost every PA Regimental flag issued by the Commonwealth plus a few that weren't. Contact Jason Wilson : http://cpc.state.pa.us/main/cpcweb/contact/staffmember.html?person=jwilson . They're very helpful. I've been there several times to view the colors. You can also check them out on the website.


Tschus,
Unteroffizier Mohney

[lukegilly13]

I have as close a copy of the 3rd Ark flag as you can get.

Did you have this made by a vendor or by an independent seamstress?

[Parault]

Did you have this made by a vendor or by an independent seamstress?


Luke,

Our flag was sewn by a gentleman that was our former Captain. The flag is completely hand sewn.

[JohnTaylorCW]

Luke,

In case you haven't seen it, here's a Link to the New York State Military Museum's New York Battle Flag Preservation Project pages. They show various NY flags, from Flank Markers to National Colors. Look under Conserved Flags. Hope this is helpful.

http://www.dmna.state.ny.us/historic/btlflags/btlflagsindex.htm

[lukegilly13]

This link is VERY helpful! thanks for the post.
Anyone belong to a unit that is restoring a Virginia Infantry regimental, battle, or national flag? I'm looking for pictures of originals or info/specs.
I have attended the MOC in Richmond and enjoyed it thoroughly...however, it's been about 6-8 years. I need to go back and look at a few.
I have access to an original federal flag and I plan to start re-production of it soon (as soon as I finish my jacket project which needs button holes only). I will post pictures as I work for constructive criticism.
Keep me up on the VA confederate flag.