Marching with fixed bayonets

[Pritchett Ball]

An officer in the 33rd Arkansas reported:

“In the darkness one could see nothing. Then a flash of lightning would come and reveal a long line of bayonets stretching away down the road and out into the darkness.”
This was while they (Churchill’s Arkansas Brigade) were marching towards Jenkin’s Ferry, and Steele’s Federals.

My question is, why would you march with bayonets “fixed” in a blinding thunderstorm…or any other time? Would that extra piece of metal left in the scabbard make the Musket/Rifle weigh less?

I know that accurate shooting with a bayonet attached would be hard, as it throws off the bullet’s point of impact, to the point of aim.

Kevin Dally

[NC5thCav]

One possibility is that they were expecting to go into action very quickly, and may have intended to use bayonets intead of musket fire in order to have the element of surprise. There are several instinces of that happening, like the attacks on redouts 9 and 10 at Yorktown. Washington ordered the men to attack with bayonets and unloaded muskets so that no one would accidentily fire and warn the enemy.

[flattop32355]

IIRC:

At 1st Bull Run, the Confederates on the left saw the Federals flanking them by the light glinting off their fixed bayonets.

G.K. Warren noticed the Confederates concentrated on the left flank near LRT at G'burg by firing an artillery round over the area and seeing the movement of fixed bayonets.

Early in the war, there were still commanders who believed in the supremacy of the bayonet over the smoothbore musket due to closer ranges. The rifle-musket gradually changed that thinking.

[John of the Skulkers Mess]

By the way, what is the source of the quote?

Just a thought, perhaps they were expecting quick action and since the weather was foul maybe they thought the muskets would be too.

Dunno,

[BrandonEnglish]

I know that accurate shooting with a bayonet attached would be hard, as it throws off the bullet’s point of impact, to the point of aim.


It also throws off the balance of the rifle which makes it much harder to aim and hit your intended target when you are used to holding the rifle at the proper balance point without a bayonet.

Even if going into action soon in a lightning storm, wouldn't the officers realize they had a column of lightning rods?

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

It might make for a side discussion whether a bayonet on a wooden gun stock is a lightning rod or not (assuming one does not touch the barrel, etc.,).
One could make an argument that hobnails and heel plates are bad because lightning also can strike people (and animals such has cows) through their feet...) As well as streaming sideways.
But with people being 80% water, IMHO you lose either way. ;)
Especially when the water table is high, or the ground mucky, or for that matter as in Florida where the lightnng hits are twice those in other states- the sandy soil is a good conductor.

:)

Curt

[Mcouioui]

I agree for the idea "go into action very quickly".
In the beginning of war it can also explain by the Napoleonic military doctrine exemplifying the armies in the world of period, indeed during the 1st Empire and the Napoleonic wars the bayonet is a part of the weapon it is always above...

[WoodenNutmeg]

Marching with bayonets fixed was not an uncommon practice.

[Cfarrell]

“In the darkness one could see nothing. Then a flash of lightning would come and reveal a long line of bayonets stretching away down the road and out into the darkness.”
This was while they (Churchill’s Arkansas Brigade) were marching towards Jenkin’s Ferry, and Steele’s Federals.

My knowledge of the battle at Jenkin's Ferry is limited...but I pulled this up.

At 12 o'clock that night we resumed our march and continued it until we arrived within a mile of the Saline Bottom, when we halted and built fires to warm and dry the men. It had rained Friday evening and nearly all that night. The men were very wet and the roads quite muddy.
Report of Brig. Gen. James C. Tappan, C.S. Army, commanding brigade, of engagement at Jerkins'' Ferry


It was a forced march of 25 miles knowing they would be going into battle. Maybe it was knowing the enemy was there but not knowing when they would make contact. Or possibly it had something to do with stacking arms and resting along the march. They were halted and given the order to stack arms and it saved time by being able to skip over the order to fix bayonets.:thinking::

[RN_PAC]

The Prussians adopted from the Russians the habit of perminantly keeping the bayonet fixed to the piece. As a general rule, they did not wear bayonet scabbards. In fact, typically Prussian infantrymen...in the Franco-Prussian war, and probably also the Austro-Prussian war...carried a fascine knife on their left hip as a side-arm, where we would normally expect a bayonet carriage to be, and again the bayonet was simply carried on the musket as, well, a part of the musket...much like the hammer, triggerguard, or any other part.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

How d' ye!

Correct.
And were still doing the same in World War I.

Curt

[Pritchett Ball]

[QUOTE=John of the Skulkers Mess;119490]By the way, what is the source of the quote?

The quote comes from the book Steele's Retreat from Camden and The Battle of Jenkin's Ferry by Edwin C. Bearss.

Kevin Dally

[Pritchett Ball]

"One possibility is that they were expecting to go into action very quickly, and may have intended to use bayonets intead of musket fire in order to have the element of surprise."

I have to ask how long would it take to FIX bayonets? It sure takes no time for me to fix mine! Being a rainy night, I sure would hate to FALL onto someone elses fixed bayonet, and get skewered!:eek:

I was wondering if there was something in a manual that designates this being done on the march, but I have not seen one.

I know the FIRST time I ever marched in line with a good sized unit was back in 99, with the Red River Battalion at an event here in Texas. We marched with fixed bayonets, and I must say they looked awesome swaying in time together...but other than the "cool" factor, I often wondered why would you do it?

Kevin Dally

[NC5thCav]

I have to ask how long would it take to FIX bayonets?

It may not have been the time involved, but the sound. Several hundred guys clanking their bayonets around can be pretty noisy. Just a thought though.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Derek Carpenter
It may not have been the time involved, but the sound. Several hundred guys clanking their bayonets around can be pretty noisy. Just a thought though.

Hi,

I was thinking the same thing.

[fahtz]

Double Post!

[fahtz]

If the commander is thinking he will be attacked at ANY moment, the extra time it would take to fix bayonets would be a a factor in his decision.

Unrelated to the quote, Ed is a dear friend and amazing historian... anything he wrote or helped wrote OR said is worth every penny! He is an amazing wealth of information.

[Pat.Lewis]

As a few have alluded, Brent Nosworthy (http://www.amazon.com/Bloody-Crucible-Courage-Fighting-Experience/dp/0786711477/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1220702076&sr=8-1) would have us all remember that even with the advent of the rifle musket many generals still thought that battles would be decided by elan; quickly closing the deadly space between the armies; and driving away the defenders, haughty and unmanned, secure in their protection via firepower. Napololeon III (not I) and his Chasseurs a Pied had proved the supremacy of the bayonet to the scientific method of firing.

Therefore, I don't doubt bayonets-at-odd-times stories.