43rd Virginia Cavalry

[Secede1863]

Hello All,
I am a Reenactor with Mosby's Rangers, Commanded by Jeff Smith with Kathryn Coombs aswell.

Well.... I am a courier in it I am in Company A commanded by Jon Bucknam.

Regards,
Andrew

Andrew,

Welcome to the AC Forums. Please sign your full name to every post. We do not allow unsigned or anonymous posts here.

John Stillwagon
Forum Moderator

[Eric Burke]

Welcome to the forums, Andrew! As you know, AC is the place on the net to learn how to do the hobby correctly. If you're with Kathryn, I'm sure you already are aware of this. Look forward to reading your posts!

[Mike Ventura]

Andrew:

Welcome to the Cav group. On this forum we all sign our full names.

Mike Ventura

[Jim Rowe]

Hello All,
I am a Reenactor with Mosby's Rangers, Commanded by Jeff Smith with Kathryn Coombs aswell.

Well.... I am a courier in it I am in Company A commanded by Jon Bucknam.

Regards,
Andrew

Dear Mr. Stebbins,

I am curious about your organization. How many are in your regiment? How many of your members have horses? How many men in a company?

I have been asked to provide cavalry to accompany Jeff Smith (Mosby) at functions such as The Herndon Station Raid. I have never met anyone, besides Jeff, on a horse from the '43rd Virginia'.

Just Curious,
Jim Rowe

[Linneus Ahearn]

Welcome to the cav forum Andrew. Don't be afraid to post any questions you might have, someone here is sure to have an informed and researched answer or point you in the right direction. And you might be able to teach others a thing or two too.

Jim, if you need riders and can find some horses for a Mosby event there are some gentlemen in the 43rd in the Pacific Northwest who would fit the bill, it's just hard to ship horses across country. Todd Kern usually supplies them when they are in Virginia. I'm sure Kathryn is aware of these fellows.

[KLCoombs]

A point of clarification -- Andrew is 12 years old and a great and enthusiastic kid who wants to develop a Mosby's Ranger's impression. I've been advising him to (1) start taking riding lessons now, so that when he's old enough to take the field, he'll be a skilled horseman and (2) join an authentic civilian unit and develop his general reenacting skills that way. At the better events, there's some unexplored scope for mounted civilians and that way he'd get into the authenticity mindset early on. (3) Then, if he can find a mounted cavalry unit in his area where he can be a groom, learn horse care, learn about period tack, etc etc that would be a grand idea.

With building this kind of background, making the transition at age 16 to partisan ranger would be a natural progression, as many of Mosby's men were local farm boys practically born in the saddle. At this time, we'd suggest he join a regular, mounted cavalry unit and build core cavalry skills rather than just focus on the 43rd as that would keep him from being limited in what kinds of events he can do.

For the record, Jeff Smith and I don't run a 43rd battalion / Mosby's Ranger "unit" per se. We run a living history group that puts together Mosby-related living histories and draws upon the talents of high quality troopers such as Jim Rowe and his colleagues in the Black Horse Troop (Co H, 4th Virginia) and the recently formed 7th Virginia group and other good units.

Sometimes Brian Buntain's 43rd Virginia group -- the only mounted Mosby's Rangers "unit" per se that we're aware of -- come's east to play with us too.

Jon Bucknam, who runs Andrew's group, is a skilled young horseman and professional horse trainer, formerly from upstate NY where the unit is based and currently working in Georgia. Jon did the equine studies 2 year certificate program at Meredyth Manor in WV and knows his stuff He and one other guy in his group are mounted. The rest are dismounted and are mostly really young guys on very limited budgets. When we first met them, they had every bad dismounted cavalry cliche in the book. Since then, many of them have been working on trying to get it right, but not all of them have the financial wherewithal to do this yet. But at least they're studying, which is a big start.

They are really great guys and their hearts are in the right place. Rather than diss them as dismounted farbs with too many pistols and too many ostrich plumes, we've been helping them to make the transition if not to "the dark side", at least the credible end of the mainstream -- as most of the deficiencies in their impression are a result of youth and lack of money, not lack of love of history.

One thing we keep emphasizing: As Mosby's command did not come into existence until early 1863 and as they were not engaged in the regular battles depicted at reenactments, a Mosby's Rangers impression is not historically appropriate for your average reenactment.

We therefore encourage all cavalry reenactors who are old enough to take the field under arms and who are interested in doing a Mosby Ranger impression to join a regular cavalry unit first and build their skills & knowledge there, so that they have the basics of the regular ANV cavalry down pat.

Over half of Mosby's men came from the regular cavalry, either on temporary horse detail or permanent reassignment, so your average trooper in the 43rd would have have this background anyway, so that would make your Mosby Ranger impression more accurate.

But more importantly, solely focusing on a Mosby's Rangers impression is going to limit you in terms of what kinds of events you can accurately attend. Gettysburg? Mosby's men weren't there! Cedar Creek? A detachment was in the hills scouting and offered their services to Early but were turned down. They weren't in the battle! Instead, portray a unit who WAS there, or a generic cavalryman.

Jeff Smith, for example, doesn't do regular reenactments as Mosby but as a generic guy -- Pvt Smith, Lt. Smith, whatever those in the command choose to make of him (he got to be QM at G'burg, which was pretty cool). The exception is pre-1863 events where Mosby historically was present in his pre-Partisan Ranger days. Jeff did Antietam 140th as Lt. Mosby, a courier and scout for JEB Stuart and 140th First Manassas as Pvt. Mosby of Co D, 1st Virginia Cavalry. Jeff himself has come a long way on the authenticity curve and still has a long way to go (and doesn't come close to meeting Todd's standards) but feels it's important as someone who does a "special impression" to break out of the farb cliche of insisting on portraying Lee/ Lincoln/ some other famous guy at reenactments of battles where that person was NOT THERE.

The other, and most important reason to develop a more broad based and typical cavalry impression is that solely focusing on a Mosby portrayal might give you the wrong ideas about cavalry in general if you only focus on this very special and rather idiosyncratic command.

In particular is the heavy use of pistols -- perfectly accurate for a Mosby's Rangers impression and some other units operating under the Partisan Ranger Act but a bad reenactor cliche in normal cavalry reenacting. In Mosby's Command, nearly ever man had a pistol, many had two and some had more than that. In your average ANV cavalry unit, you might see one pistol for every 5 guys, perhaps even less, depending on the unit, the period of the War and what research shows.

Sorry this has been such a long reply -- lots of material to cover.

Andrew -- welcome back to the Authentic Campaigner cavalry forums. Some of the best people in the hobby are here, people you can learn a lot from. You've got a distinct advantage with your youth in being able to get a head start on your riding skills and building up your general knowledge before you're old enough to take the field. This forum -- and a good riding school -- is the place to do that.


- Kathryn Coombs
President, JS Mosby Living History Assn (Not a reenacting unit per se!)
www.MosbysRangers.com

[Jim Rowe]

Darling Kathryn,

Thanks for the further explanation of Andrew and the 43rd. Also, for your much needed reference to the need for reenacting the 43rd in an hisorically correct manner.

Andrew,

Good luck on your riding lessons.

[Secede1863]

Thanks Mrs.Coombs for Clearing it up!

Andrew Stebbins

[Daniel_Gregory]

Hi,

I have just joined AC so I have only just noticed this post.

Andrew is in a very similar situation to me. I have been re-enacting since Easter 2002. My parents don't do it, just me.

I joined a mainstream Unit within the Southern Skirmish association, (UK) and a select few members had started with the campaign style camping.

At the end of my First Season I, and about 5-6 members of my unit (Palmetto Sharpshooters) along with a few members from other units started up 'The Volunteer Company' which does authentic re-enacting, both US and CS, eastern and western Theatre.

This year has seen the introduction of the first 'progressive' or 'Campaign' mounted Cavalry in the UK.

Ever since I first saw Cavalry at an event I was interested in joining, but couldn't because of Financial situation and I am only (today) 14.

I go riding weekly to get myself up to scratch, and I hope to join the Authentic Cavalry within the next few years.
:D

[GBaylor]

Daniel,

Welcome, The best bit of advice I can give you is to ride, ride, and ride some more. The most difficult aspect of hardcore cavalry is actually being an a competent equestrian. If you can master this, the uniform and equipment is rather easy (not cheap, but easy if you know who to go to). If you find yourself on this side of the pond, look me up. I can even show you some pretty good foxhunting too. Tally ho!


John Sweeney

[Daniel_Gregory]

Hi,

Thanks.

I have always wanted to go foxhunting, ever since I got interested in Horses and Cavalry.

One of the members of the Authentic Cavalry unit works at a hunting stables, and the other 2 members run their own stables, they all go fox hunting.

My brother is against it, so that is a sensative subject when I see him! lol

Thanks again.

Daniel

[GeraldTodd]

My brother is against it, [foxhunting] so that is a sensative subject when I see him! lol

Thanks again.

Daniel

I don't think they actually hunt a fox anymore do they?

[Daniel_Gregory]

Some hunts do, some dont.

One of the Livery owners at the stables I go to takes his horse 'Drag Hunting' in the winter.
This is where some poor man has to be made to smell foul, then he runs around, but by the time the actual hunt starts, he is almost back, so its just the fun of the riding fast and jumping anything and everything.

Others do continue to hunt foxes, the Commander of the new Cavalry Unit is a groom at a Hunting Stables, and the other members go hunting. They do hunt foxes, but don't catch many.

There have been many bills going through Parliament trying to make it illegal, but the House of Lords have been stopping it being made into the law.

[GBaylor]

Gerald,

I have an Englishwoman who's a member of the hunt I belong, and she says what occurs on private property is the private business. "Piss on Labour". Anyway, foxhunting is as close to real cavalry movement across country as your gonna get in these times. You have the Advance, Flankers, Main body and rear all moving at a quick pace. You learn to read terrain and anticipate the movement of your quarry.

John Sweeney

[Yellowhammer]

John,

Tying in the Mosby and foxhunting themes of this thread, did you ever see the hunting horn id'd to one of Mosby's men that is in the collection of the hunt museum at Morven Park?

There is very little descriptive text other than the provenance but it doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to picture Mosby's Rangers sounding hunt calls while pursuing a retreating or broken enemy.

Pretty neat.

[GBaylor]

John,

No I haven't seen it. I would love too though. Mosby's men held a hunt during the war right outside of Upperville in 1864. They were attacked by Yankee cavalry though. Spoil Sports!

John Sweeney

[hireddutchcutthroat]

John,

Tying in the Mosby and foxhunting themes of this thread, did you ever see the hunting horn id'd to one of Mosby's men that is in the collection of the hunt museum at Morven Park?

There is very little descriptive text other than the provenance but it doesn't take a great stretch of the imagination to picture Mosby's Rangers sounding hunt calls while pursuing a retreating or broken enemy.

Pretty neat.

I used to have a copy of a diary from a member or the California Battalion (Co. M 2nd Mass. Cav.) that made mention to Mosby's men with a foxhunting horn. I need to see if I can get that diary back!

[T.Kern]

A point of clarification -- Andrew is 12 years old and a great and enthusiastic kid who wants to develop a Mosby's Ranger's impression. I've been advising him to (1) start taking riding lessons now, so that when he's old enough to take the field, he'll be a skilled horseman and (2) join an authentic civilian unit and develop his general reenacting skills that way. At the better events, there's some unexplored scope for mounted civilians and that way he'd get into the authenticity mindset early on. (3) Then, if he can find a mounted cavalry unit in his area where he can be a groom, learn horse care, learn about period tack, etc etc that would be a grand idea. ...



Jeff Smith, for example, doesn't do regular reenactments as Mosby but as a generic guy -- Pvt Smith, Lt. Smith, whatever those in the command choose to make of him (he got to be QM at G'burg, which was pretty cool). The exception is pre-1863 events where Mosby historically was present in his pre-Partisan Ranger days. Jeff did Antietam 140th as Lt. Mosby, a courier and scout for JEB Stuart and 140th First Manassas as Pvt. Mosby of Co D, 1st Virginia Cavalry. Jeff himself has come a long way on the authenticity curve and still has a long way to go (and doesn't come close to meeting Todd's standards) but feels it's important as someone who does a "special impression" to break out of the farb cliche of insisting on portraying Lee/ Lincoln/ some other famous guy at reenactments of battles where that person was NOT THERE.

- Kathryn Coombs
President, JS Mosby Living History Assn (Not a reenacting unit per se!)
www.MosbysRangers.com



Good luck Andrew and Daniel, riding lessons, ,of various types, and lots of time in the saddle is best for you! And Kathryn, thanks for the mention but I must disagree, it's not Todd's standards, it's either authentic or not.
Your humble servant,
I am , sincerely,
Todd Kern

[KLCoombs]

Good luck Andrew and Daniel, riding lessons, ,of various types, and lots of time in the saddle is best for you! And Kathryn, thanks for the mention but I must disagree, it's not Todd's standards, it's either authentic or not.
Your humble servant,
I am , sincerely,
Todd Kern

Absolute authenticity in all respects is PRECISELY what I mean by "Todd's standards", comrade and I said said this out of respect as I consider you a paradigm, scholar and authority on the subject.

But I have to disagree if you're suggesting that there's no gradations between perfect and utter farb. Especially when there are so many parameters to be considered in the mounted hobby. Tack / equipments and whether you rig them correctly, drill and weaponry skills, the weapons themselves, horsemanship, type of horse, uniforms, etc all come into play.

A guy who has got it right except for (for example) a so-so hat, a correctly shaped but machine stitched saddle and weak drill skills is head and shoulders above the guy in the '04 mac, hillbilly hat with coonbones and half a dead ostrich on his head, excruciatingly bad jacket with too much yaller trim, astride the paint horse, yes?

And even he's arguably a step above his similarly dressed compadre who is gallumphing around doing "dismounted cavalry" (e.g doing infantry charges in boots with nine pistols strapped on him like the Frito Bandito).

A progressive approach means continually trying to improve. You've helped too many people yourself with mentoring not to appreciate this although I know it can be frustrating. "You can lead a horseman to water, but...."

[T.Kern]

Absolute authenticity in all respects is PRECISELY what I mean by "Todd's standards", comrade and I said said this out of respect as I consider you a paradigm, scholar and authority on the subject.

But I have to disagree if you're suggesting that there's no gradations between perfect and utter farb. Especially when there are so many parameters to be considered in the mounted hobby. Tack / equipments and whether you rig them correctly, drill and weaponry skills, the weapons themselves, horsemanship, type of horse, uniforms, etc all come into play.

A guy who has got it right except for (for example) a so-so hat, a correctly shaped but machine stitched saddle and weak drill skills is head and shoulders above the guy in the '04 mac, hillbilly hat with coonbones and half a dead ostrich on his head, excruciatingly bad jacket with too much yaller trim, astride the paint horse, yes?

And even he's arguably a step above his similarly dressed compadre who is gallumphing around doing "dismounted cavalry" (e.g doing infantry charges in boots with nine pistols strapped on him like the Frito Bandito).

A progressive approach means continually trying to improve. You've helped too many people yourself with mentoring not to appreciate this although I know it can be frustrating. "You can lead a horseman to water, but...."


Yes Kathryn your right, I stand corrected. Thank you for your compliment, you have always been a well informed and researched historian. A person may have to resort to the use of, for example, machine sewn tack while aquiring a period sewn item. Without close examination, that item may pass the 5 foot rule except for the large gaudy white stitches that out line the item, I guess these could be somewhat hidden with stain as well, but unfortunately, it is still not authentic. An apple is not an orange no matter how many say it is. But Yes, sometimes one has to make due in an effert to bring recruits on until they can acquire authentic items. Though, this can not become an excuse for someone who has been shown better and still doesn't make the effort to improve his appearance even in little things that don't require a new purchase item. For example, a properly folded saddle blanket or rolled sleeping blanket, not wearing indian wars gauntlets, wearing the canteen and not hooking it to the saddle, not using a stampede string on their hat, wearing the sabre belt at the true waist rather than like an old west gunfighter, more importantly a properly seated bit and saddle... well, you know the list goes on, but you get my point. So your right, sometimes a blind eye must prevail but too often that just becomes a crutch, because in reality it's their attitude that prevents them from trying, for they have an excuse for everthing. Attitude and effort go a long way.

Respectfully, Your Obedient servant,
Todd Kern