Issac and Campbell Pack qestions

[unclefrank]

I was thinking of ordering a Serio Issac and Campbell Pack as a Xmas gift to myself, but had a few questions. Perhaps an owner or two could help me out. Serio sells them without a wood frame. Is a frame really necessary? And if so is it easy enough to make? Also, is there an easy way to attach a blanket to the outside of the pack, or is there enough room to just keep it inside?

Thanx much!

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

As Herr Schmidt says, your mileage may vary, but my experience has been that the frame is unnecessary and made a good fire starter at a particularly cold event a few years ago. I've found that there is plenty of room if packing light to place a blanket between the flap and the main bag, making it more comfortable to carry, as it carries "backward" to other packs, with the flap on the wearer's back. If you desire the frame, its may be best to order it at the same time with the pack. They aren't too difficult to make, but getting an exact fit is a little more difficult.

[coastaltrash]

Frank,
I first want to say that I highly support a lot of the products Bob carries, however, I have heard some pretty hard criticism towards the bag in a few of the construction techniques and materials used, and this came from people who are considered "experts" in English import equipment. Some of the edging was done in buff, his is done in plain leather. The bag was linen, his is canvas etc. I want to add this- Bob Serio makes some of the finest products on the market, this observation is made without seeing the reproduction bag.

As far as carrying the bag goes, I have found that packing a normal load (knit gear, shirt, groundcloth and blanket) I can manage to just pack the blanket inside. If you need to, I have in the past tied a blanket roll and slung it without attaching it to the bag itself.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

When I owned one of his I&C knapsacks, I rolled a balnket roll, and placed it over the top straps. Then I placed the bottom of the roll through the straps. This made the knapsack ride very nicely on my back, and left enough from in the bag for other items. This picture is from the Liberty Rifles webstite, which shows a gentleman wearing his knapsack like I did.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

I forgot to say this in my first post, but I would go without the wood frame. It is just extra weight to carry!!!!!!!:confused_:wink_smil

[unclefrank]

Thanx all for the replies. Pat's comments have really made me think about buying this product from Serio. Now I have some valid questions to ask other vendors who make this type of knapsack.

[EasySam]

I have one from Robert & really like it. Do a field modification and add a strap on each side of the mess tin strap. I have a rolled up FHW coverlet there and it rides really good. Robert and I talked a lot about knapsacks, in fact we talk a lot about many things. I kinda thought he was an "expert". He told me most of the negative comments were because he used latex paint rather than the period recipe paint. The reason he does this is (and he has the written opinion of a fire marshall) is the flammability of the period recipe. It was reported that in enough heat it was possible for the thing to spontaneously ignite and can imagine one sitting in a car trunk on a 100degree + day. If the thing caught on fire the reenactor's lawyer would be wanting his head. Also, I must be special because mine is made of linen, not canvas.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

My I&C knapsack, from Robert, was also made out of linen.

Andrew

[LibertyHallVols]

Moderator hat ON:
I would like to caution folks about further beatings of the "Latex -v- Linseed" nag. Unless you have a PhD in chemistry or toxicology or you have your Md/PhD, I seriously doubt you have anything novel to add to the discussion.
http://authentic-campaigner.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=11260&d=1218837083

[Nighthawk]

My English knapsack from Bob is made of linen also. I like it as I am forced to pack light. I've found I didn't really need the items I started leaving behind. I also make better use of my pockets.

[DougCooper]

Perhaps Neill Rose and other English accouterment experts can chime in here, but were some of the Brit knapsacks issued without the frame? My I & C repro from Nick S (a superb item) is based on the West Point original and it does not have a frame. The Dogan back in the SCCRR is also sans wood frame.

As to the question - the wood frame is not necessary at all. The numerous straps and buckles and leather corners give it all the shape it needs. It is a rather small knapsack as these things go so what I normally do is roll my blanket as a horsecollar and wear it over the knapsack, as an average blankie would take up about 1/2 or more of the inside of the pack. Very comfy and I can walk forever. Since BGR I have taken to doing that for any impression, as my avatar shows.

[LibertyHallVols]

Doug,
I have the same pack you have. At Outpost 2007, I wore my pack probably 80% of the time during the event, maybe more. I had a CRC 5# Fed blanket folded inside (no small achievement there!) along with a few essentials (candles, housewife, mittens, and a length of rope), then strapped my ground cloth, scarf, and a couple of other items to the outside using a set of repro I&C overcoat straps (from the same vendor who made my pack). The pack was very comfortable to wear and didn't really add to my level of fatigue (fatigue for me was a sleep deprivation thing at that event! ...just ask Jim Conley ;) ).

[DougCooper]

I always carry my mess tin in its cover on the top as procribed (so that keeps me from strapping anything on top), and put the groundcloth under the flap but outside the inner straps so you can grab it quickly. Some stuff that might go in the haversack (grub) goes in my knapsack as well. Like Wick, I love this knapsack and the Queen's engineers did a job with it...especially the vendor who sold buckles - there must be what, 10 of them of varying kinds per knapsack/mess tin? The owner of the buckle factory must have been one of the richest men in the United Kingdom. :D

By the way, the hardware for these has been found from Virginny to the Trans-Miss and throughout the war. The MrCrae papers have 1861 contracts for them.

[EasySam]

On mine I wonder if the shoulder straps are too short for me. I have a heck of a time getting both hooked without help. The straps being that short though makes it ride high which I like.

[coastaltrash]

Paul, Andrew and Sam,
I believe the canvas vs linen complaint was directed at another vendor who makes the same pack, and not Serio as I originally printed, my mistake. I went through 3 years of checking the facts with notes from the originals and construction method before I gave up, and lucked up getting a Sam Haywood I&C on the second hand market.

[EasySam]

Paul, Andrew and Sam,
I believe the canvas vs linen complaint was directed at another vendor who makes the same pack, and not Serio as I originally printed, my mistake. I went through 3 years of checking the facts with notes from the originals and construction method before I gave up, and lucked up getting a Sam Haywood I&C on the second hand market.

No harm. No foul.

[Iron Scout]

Doug and Folks,

The McRae Papers show that Huse disallowed every frame delivered by I&C. I've never seen one mention of them other than on the early invoices. Hope this helps.

Neill Rose
PLHA

[wade03]

Patrick,
I have examined an original I&C pack and it appeared to be made from cotton. There was a slight chance that it could have been hemp canvas, but from the fibers I looked at with a magnifying glass it looked like cotton. Also the leather pieces were made from bridle leather not buff. And if it wasn't bridle leather it was just nicely black balled oak tanned leather. One thing that separates this pack from the others in collection is that it was probably sent to the CSA in kit form and assembled in the southern states. Reason for this is the hardware is different and there are some slight variations in construction techniques. Pictures to follow.

[coastaltrash]

Since I do not have the ability to post images, if anyone who does can email me I will attach images of the Ross Knapsack (not all English Import Knapsack were I&C) I will send pictures of what I am talking about.

[lojafan]

I bought a "Confederate" knapsack from Blockade Runner. I pulled it out to see what kind of material it was made with and I cannot really tell if its linen. It looks and feels like canvas. It doesnt have any stamps on it that say it is an I & C or any manufacturer, so does anyone know of any knapsacks that were manufactured with canvas in England or in the south?

Thanks,

Andrew Gale

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

CS Mexican War pattern knapsacks and Pritchard knapsacks are made out of cotton canvas, or some other cotton material (I can not remember). After going to Blockade Runners website, I did not find any I&C knapsacks. They have listed what they call "I&C" knapsack, but it looks to me like a Kibbler knapsack. From reviewing their site, I would be very cautious about the items sold. While I have never seen their products in person, the items listed do not look very promising. While some of the general shapes are correct; material, construction, and hardware are not. For knapsacks, you would most likely be better off getting them from LD Haning, Trans-Mississippi Depot, Missouri Boot and Shoe, or NJ**************.

Andrew

[lojafan]

Andrew,

Many thanks!

Andrew Gale

[unclefrank]

I must say that the LD Haning Kibbler looks really nice. Anyone own one?

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

I own one, and I really like it. You can see several pictures of it if you goto to my profile page.

Andrew

[DougCooper]

I must say that the LD Haning Kibbler looks really nice. Anyone own one?

Tim Welch (LD Haning) does an excellent job on this knapsack - even the angle of the stitching on the bag is correct to the original. We are lucky to have two great makers of Mexican War pattern knapsacks - Don Smith and Tim Welch.

Avoid Blockade Runner. Nuff said.

[unclefrank]

Avoid Blockade Runner. Nuff said

Ewwwwwwww :eek:

[Garrett Silliman]

Like others have said the LD Haning pack is a great repro - well worth having. I also own a Serio I&C and I am very happy with it. If you want buff interior straps - he'll do it. If you want waxed-flesh shoulder-straps - he'll do it. I even got a frame for it ($15 extra). Point is, Robert Serio does some great work and if you send him pics of an original and say "I want this or that" or say "based on such and such I think this should be like..." - he'll do it. He's more than happy to to do something different if it means doing something correctly. Good luck with your choice.
-Garrett

[lojafan]

Thanks for the information. I got to get a new list of sutlers together that offer items that are more authentic.

Andrew Gale