Cravats: How Common

[Cpl. Ehrman]

Comrades,

I'm really making an effort to improve my Confederate infantry impression for next season and one of the things I was looking into was the cravat. I've seen a few here and there and they add a nice touch to a uniform, but exactly how common were cravats to the common infantry soldier?
I'm sure there were some early war outfits that had men wearing cravats in the ranks, but were they really as 'loud' and grand as some that can be seen around reenactors necks?
Really, I want to know what kind of cravat, if any, would have been worn by Confed Inf (more specifically TN, mid-war). Any help, guidance or documentation would be much appreciated.

Tom Ehrman

[Guy Gane III]

I would have to go with uncommon.

...that is, unless you are a dandy!

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

I think that it would come down to the impression. If you were doing Missouri State Guard (or other State Guard Impression), I would think that these would be fairly common. Because these men were basically civilians that were armed. But the average Confederate soldier, I do not think put a whole lot time in looking nice, and wearing a cravat. Just my 2 cents.

[CJDaley]

Some Civil War etiquette guides claim a gentleman should have 4 dozen cravats.

1 dozen white
1 dozen black
2 dozen of various colors, patterns and stripes.

If you were to buy these from an authentic vendor this would run you $2,160.00 (plus postage) :)

[WoodenNutmeg]

Some Civil War etiquette guides claim a gentleman should have 4 dozen cravats.

1 dozen white
1 dozen black
2 dozen of various colors, patterns and stripes.

If you were to buy these from an authentic vendor this would run you $2,160.00 (plus postage) :)

Are you going to offer a Bully Buy for four dozen, Chris? :tounge_sm

[kazrosiecki]

What has made you believe it is necessary to wear a cravat with your C.S.A. impression? Or, why are you connecting the two? Is it from the many photos of authentic's at events sporting the cravat? If so, that makes enough sense to me.

Look through photos of Confederates and draw your own conclusions. I have my own, though I do not have any written documentation pertaining to soldiers and cravats. I just have the photos I have viewed. When looking over the photos, take into account things like unit, setting, any info on the individual, time and anything else you can think of.

If you were doing Missouri State Guard (or other State Guard Impression), I would think that these would be fairly common. Because these men were basically civilians that were armed.

Again, I don't have many/excellent sources and I'm no expert, but I am not sure about this statement. Civil War soldiers were people, the same as us. I would not be wearing a cravat/tie when I am doing work, lounging around or what have you in warm or cold weather (cravats can't offer that much protection from cold, or can they?). Would the real guys? I just can't see it.

The cravat has become the next cool thing to sport at events (in my opinion) and I just don't get it. All too often people copy other reenactors instead of original photos. But, you do whatever it is that makes you happy and look cool/popular.

Again, my own observations. Just look at original pictures, taking into account some of the ideas mentioned above, and try and copy the ORIGINAL photo.

[ohpkirk]

Hi,

I think that it would come down to the impression. If you were doing Missouri State Guard (or other State Guard Impression), I would think that these would be fairly common. Because these men were basically civilians that were armed.

Less than one quarter of these Missourian Confederate sympathizers in 1862 are wearing cravats. (first attached photo)

The usage of a cravat would not be appropriate for a soldier on campaign. I have not come across any accounts of soldiers during the war concerning cravats. However, in the Trans-Mississippi theatre the usage of the string tie shows up more often in surviving photographs than a cravat does. (see other attachments) Does this mean that the string tie was more prevalent over the cravat or other neckwear? No, it just means that among surviving photographic evidence it is more common.

The third photo shows some of Hindman's Arkansawyer's with two in a cravat and one with a string tie.

Cravats, as well as severly cocked hats have become the trademarks of a hardkewl reenactor in the field....

[CJDaley]

Are you going to offer a Bully Buy for four dozen, Chris? :tounge_sm

Yeah, but delivery would be after the 150th Anniversary cycle. :tounge_sm



BTW: Page Lapham was killed wearing a pleated front shirt...is it so unrealistic to imagine a private in the ranks wearing a cravat or a tie on campaign or in a battle?

[Mcguire]

Keep in mind that images of soldiers sporting cravats were taken in a studio and they probably wanted to look as refined or dapper as they could. I don't think there is alot of validity in making a correlation to studio created images and the reality of the field or campaign conditions concerning their use.

[ohpkirk]

BTW: Page Lapham was killed wearing a pleated front shirt...is it so unrealistic to imagine a private in the ranks wearing a cravat or a tie on campaign or in a battle?

I believe that Page Lapham was also from a well-to-do N.O. family and serving in an artillery company with tailor made uniforms. While a pleated shirt would be a totally different matter as it did not have to be tied on a daily basis as well as it just being a shirt.

Attached is a photo of Big Foot Wallace wearing a dirty pleated shirt, cravat, and overshirt. While he was not a soldier on campaign, it shows a pleated shirt in a very dingy state. Also in the photo of the Confederate prisoners in Chicago it shows a variation of the vertical pleated shirt with one of the soldiers (to the right side of the photo) wearing a horizontally pleated shirt. This photo shows only one of the soldiers with a cravat, being that they are wearing what they were captured in it shows that a cravat or two may have been present in the ranks, but by no means were they as common as they are in the modern ranks.

[Andrew Kasmar]

(cravats can't offer that much protection from cold, or can they?) Casimer Rosiecki


Hi,

Actually, I was surprized to find that they can. Last weekend at ,Prairie Grove, I was wearing a tie, and I found that it kept my neck very warm. In summer, I find the tie/cravat holds the collar of my shirt up high on my neck. Keep the wool jean collar from scratching my neck. But again, soldiers on most campaigns, I do not think, wore cravats. About the State Guard, I was not saying everyone one would be wearing a cravat, but compared to other impressions.

Andrew

[Jon The Beloved]

I will be looking for documentation and I hesitate to post this without but I wanted to add the points that perhaps for parade dress.. parade march.. grand reviews.. religious services.. dances.. and for grandios battles in which the soldier felt he would meet a sure fate (much like that famed battleshirt).. the soldiers may have chosen to pull out the old cravat or string tie.

So that being said.. very doubtful on the march.. around camp.. while at work.. and during impromtu battles and surprise skirmishes.

Just a thought.

I am, also, interested in whether or not it was popular or even appropriate in the Army of Tennessee outside the dandys and city boys in the early period of war. Anybody have ready documentation? Don't know why there would have been being it such a non-issue and with limited photo documentation.

I digress..

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

I believe that Page Lapham was also from a well-to-do N.O. family and serving in an artillery company with tailor made uniforms. While a pleated shirt would be a totally different matter as it did not have to be tied on a daily basis as well as it just being a shirt.



Not sure about his family standing, but Page Lapham was from Danville, VA...yet enlisted in the Washington Artillery of New Orleans (late war)...think this occured while he was in Richmond City, VA. He was not himself from New Orleans, Louisiana...although the unit he enlisted with was.

I believe the Museum of the Confederacy, who has his shoes and pieces of his uniform, have it documented that men in the unit gave Lapham his uniform...which had belonged to someone else...therefore his uniform WAS NOT TAILORED TO HIS FORM.

As others have mentioned the debate about the cravat/tie, cannot be proved disproved without first-hand written accounts from the real soldiers themselves.

As it's pretty obvious, that this was not an issued item...all accounts must be settled on primary documentation. That said...what do the "in the field" images show? There were a few well-known Fredericksburg images floating around on the forum...do any of the men sitting/standing on the old trestle have any cravats on?

Paul B.

[CJDaley]

I believe that Page Lapham was also from a well-to-do N.O. family and serving in an artillery company with tailor made uniforms. While a pleated shirt would be a totally different matter as it did not have to be tied on a daily basis as well as it just being a shirt. .

Great points Cody.

[CJ Roberts]

Interesting discussion. I have always thought that the soldier in the foreground of this '64 Spotsylvania image appeared to be wearing a cravat.

[coastaltrash]

Paul when Cody says tailor made he does not refer to fit but rather material and quality of construction. That would mean the uniform made was originally non depot issue making it tailor made or custom or private manufacture.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

The 1860 census says:

B.B. Lapham, age 55, male, was a dentist worth $2500 in real estate and $1000 in personal estate. He was originally from New York.
His wife, Mary F. Lapham, age 38, a native Virginian.

They had three children:

Middleton P. (i.e., Page Lapham), who was 14 and had attended school within the past year.
Flora J., who was 8 years old and had attended school within the past year
Annie F., age 1.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Paul when Cody says tailor made he does not refer to fit but rather material and quality of construction. That would mean the uniform made was originally non depot issue making it tailor made or custom or private manufacture.

I believe that Page Lapham was also from a well-to-do N.O. family and serving in an artillery company with tailor made uniforms. While a pleated shirt would be a totally different matter as it did not have to be tied on a daily basis as well as it just being a shirt.


Well I can't interpret what Cody meant by this statement...I was only providing the little bit of insight I had, that M. Page Lapham was not a native of New Orleans...as he was in fact a Virginian (from Danville, Virginia), and that the uniform he was wearing (at least his jacket), was in fact made for someone else...and passed onto him.

The MoC publication, A Catalog of Uniforms in the Collection of the Museum of the Confederacy, has the following information:

Private M. Page Lapham (~1864)
Jacket:single breasted, 8 button front cadet gray wool kersey cloth piping on collar and cuffs, no facings, unbleached cotton osnanburg lining in body and sleeves; Louisiana state buttons with backmarks: Hyde & Goodrich/New Orleans.
Trousers:dark cadet gray wool kersey cloth with red wool broadcloth piping down outer leg seam, inner facings and pockets are off-white canvas, black bone buttons.
Vest (military):cadet gray wool cloth, back panel and lining are off-white cotton osnanburg, small Federal staff buttons with backmark: Superior/Quality.
Vest (civilian):black velvet collar, back panel is brown silesia, inner lining is white silesia, small black fabric~covered buttons.
Vest:brown silk, with a brown polished cotton back, white cotton lining, small fabric covered buttons.
Shirt:white cotton cloth with pleated front, turndown collar, four button holes, white glass buttons.

One of the most complete enlisted Confederate uniforms known to exist, Lapham's is typical of his unit, but not government issue. An identical jacket from the Washington Artillery is in a collection in New Orleans. The Washington Artillery rarely drew clothing from the government; instead, the men paid for their own uniforms. This jacket has the name "T.H. Fuqua/WA," in the lining, indicating that Thomas H. Fuqua, the sergeant of Lapham's company, owned it before Lapham. A native of Danville, Virginia, Lapham joined the Second Company of famed Washington Artillery of New Orleans in Virginia. He was wounded at Drewry's Bluff, Virginia, on May 14, 1864 and died at Chimborazo Hospital, Richmond, Virginia, on May 23, 1864.

Thanks Emmanuel, for posting the Census information on the Lapham family.

Paul B.

[coastaltrash]

Paul,
While Cody may not know the demographics of the soldier who had the jacket on, his comment about the coat was spot on, it was tailor made, that was the point I was attempting to clarify.

[ohpkirk]

I apologize for bringing this thread off topic. I know nothing about Page Lapham other than he was in the Washington Artillery, a unit from New Orleans and composed of the upper crust of the Crescent City.

Thank you Mr. Dabney for the census info.

Back to cravat discussion if ya'll don't mind.

[Citizen_Soldier]

Greetings,
For wearing a cravat while portraying an uniformed military impression on campaign, I agree with Cassimer and would recommend consulting extant military photos of fellows in the field. A photographic study broken down by regiment, campaign, which year of the conflict, and etc. would make for an interesting research article.

For a civilian impression or a military organization of fellows dressed in citizen clothes, then cravats would be incredibly common. During the middle part of the nineteenth century cravats were worn often by laborers in the agricultural and trade industries. This is supported by genre paintings, occupational photographs, illustrations, and a number of other primary sources. When I worked in the open air museum field, I frequently wore a cravat while engaged in farm labor (hoeing corn, plowing, scythe work, and etc.) and trade work, finding it to not be an issue, except in the hottest of weather.

On another note, in this thread the topic of pleated shirts came up. These garments were some of the most common civilian shirts of the middle part of the nineteenth century. I wouldn't make any conclusions about an individual's socio-economic status or whether they were a "dandy" by the wearing of this type of garment alone. In fact, I think they are seriously under represented among Civil War interpreters portraying civilians.

Darrek Orwig

[Erik]

I ,would suggest that cravats would perhaps be an officer style and perhaps worn by certain dandies not a usal acccotrement and even frowned upon by many workman like officers.
As an officer one must look ones best so a cravat is required. Try tying one in the dark while the long roll sounds. It gives new meaning to focus.

Erik Simundson

[Cpl. Ehrman]

Thank you all for your input, I really do much apprciate it. I will, as many of you have suggested, take a look through some legit photos and draw a conclusion has to whether or not I should include a cravat (or perhaps some other form of neck tie) to my impression. Thank you all once again.

Tom Ehrman

[MickCole]

The vast majority of soldiers were citizen soldiiers, and as such would have been quite accustomed to wearing cravats on all occasions. As already pointed pointed out, cravats do serve a utilitarian function, other than merely allowing one to feel well-dressed. Namely, a bit of extra warmth in the winter and protection from chafing in the summer. The Spotsylvania photo and other photos in this thread provide at a minimum that the wearing of a cravat is not so unusual that it should be considered wrong to wear one. The same photos show that it would be wrong to require the wearing of one. While I hardly consider myself a dandy, when portraying a mid-nineteenth person, whether soldier or citizen, I wear a cravat, based largely on the many mid-nineteenth century photos I have seen.
Mick Cole
37th VA Co. E

[sthabig]

Perhaps I read too quickly but I did not see at any point where someone presented the sources for their conclusions. A lot of speculation and personal opinion, little documented evidence. Does anyone happen to have reading material that discusses the wearing and usage of cravats? I read a couple of guys mentioning it was quite common for civilians and hope they can provide the source (for my own research). Another thing, I would appreciate any documented Federal cravat usage that one may have.

Many thanks,

Tyler Habig

[Citizen_Soldier]

Tyler,
I dropped you a PM.

Darrek Orwig

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Moderator hat off...

Yes, the CW era farmers hereabouts always wore their cravats when milking the cows, slopping the hogs, and plowing the fields- just as modern farmers always wear their neck ties.

Moderator hat on...

This thread is below AC Forum standards with a great deal of opinion and a great scarcity of research and documentation other than some Period photographs of lads wearing cravats where we do not know the intent or context of the image taking or studio image sitting.

Curt

[kazrosiecki]

My only documentation is photos, which is not a bad guide. A cravat would have been a common item to people and therefore, would the soldiers really say much about them? Requesting one be sent from home or purchasing one them self may have happened and therefore, you would need to read through diaries written by soldiers. There just might be something out there but I have photos, so it is the photos that I follow.

If nobody has any good written documentation, just photos (and not every person is wearing a cravat in those pics, only a minority), then it is okay for the majority of reenactors at events to wear cravats. I guess that makes sense?

Edit: Thought I should mention that I was referring to photos of men in the field wearing a small number of cravats, not in portraits.

[CJ Roberts]

Here is another image of a dead Confederate soldier wearing what appears to me to be a cravat. While I haven't yet convinced myself of the appropriateness or inappropriateness of reenactors wearing cravats, death photos certainly are a logical resource for determining the appearance of actual CW soldiers in the field. I am curious if others, whose eyes maybe sharper than mine, feel that the soldiers in this image and the one in the Spotsylvania image I posted previously, are in fact wearing cravats. If so, while it certainly doesn't answer the question of how common it might have been for a soldier to be wearing a cravat in the field, it at least starts to build a case, based on primary source materials, that in fact some soldiers were certainly wearing them into battle.

[ohpkirk]

That appears to be a strap to my eyes and not a cravat. Or I may be looking at the wrong thing in the photo. The only other item in the photograph that is in the vicinity of where a cravat may be is his collar.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

Moderator hat on...

"If nobody has any good written documentation, just photos (and not every person is wearing a cravat in those pics, only a minority), then it is okay for the majority of reenactors at events to wear cravats. I guess that makes sense?'

I would assume that is a rhetorical question posed as wit or sarcasm...

Otherwise, I have photographs of Federals wearing their fatigue blouses tucked into their trousers.
And a photograph of Samuel Richardson wearing hair-on jaguar skin chaps and holsters.

Moderator hat off...

Curt

[Citizen_Soldier]

Greetings,
Just a quick response...

"Yes, the CW era farmers hereabouts always wore their cravats when milking the cows, slopping the hogs, and plowing the fields- just as modern farmers always wear their neck ties."

Curt, obviously thoughts on fashion have changed a little since the middle part of the nineteenth century. Growing up on a farm in my youth I wore a baseball cap and t-shirt, that doesn't mean that when portraying a farmer in the 1860's that I shouldn't wear a broad brimmed hat, shirt, and vest because modern day farmers do not. :wink_smil

There is a TON of material out there showing civilians wearing cravats. To get some fellows started I would recommend the following sources:

Dressed for the Photographer by Severa

Silver and Gold: Cased Images of the California Gold Rush ed. by Johnson and Eymann

Genre paintings by William Sydney Mount and George Caleb Bingham show quite a few cravats being worn by citizens in the years leading up to the war.

Also for those wishing to see if the fashion of civilians wearing cravats continued after the war, The Wisconsin Historical Society has the Dahl photograph collection (ca. 1870 or so) posted online.

Like I said, there is a ton of stuff out there and if a fellows digs for it...you'll find it. Additional resources include illustrations, advertisements for farming implements, store ledgers for cravats, and the list goes on and on.

My conclusion is that a typical soldier in the American Civil War would not have found a cravat to be a foreign or unusual accessory in civilian life. As I mentioned before, I would love to see a research article written on cravats being worn by soldiers with a breakdown of what context the soldier is wearing the cravat, the year in the conflict, which theater, and etc.

Darrek Orwig

[CJ Roberts]

Cody,

I think you are exactly right about the haversack strap. You may be correct about the collar of his coat also. What led me to believe that he may be wearing a cravat is that there is a distinct seperation between the top of his coat and the dark band around his neck area. It appears his collar is folded under, leading me to believe that the dark band around his neck might be a cravat, but it is certainly difficult to know for certain.

[ohpkirk]

While the great number of posts on this thread are speculative and based on nothing other than opinion, the opinion of these people (if based on personal experience and not just posted to boost post numbers.....) could be helpful in continuing where the primary source documents have left of: comfort of the soldier/person while doing labor intensive tasks and wearing the cravat.

While doing antebellum LH's where manual labor is a key part of the lh, I have found that the cravat only aids in soaking up sweat, but also keeps air from entering the shirt via the neck hole and helping cool me off.

However this doesn't answer the initial question of the post: "I want to know what kind of cravat, if any, would have been worn by Confed Inf (more specifically TN, mid-war). Any help, guidance or documentation would be much appreciated."

This thread has gone on tangents including pleated shirts, socioeconomic backgrounds of artillerists, farmers, etc. with no real documentation (other than a few photographs) that answer's the the intial question. The only documentation that I can submit on this question is the prisoner of war photograph that shows AOT soldiers in what they were captured in. Since not many photographs were taken in the field of AOT troops...or CS troops as whole, it will be hard to conclude a decisive answer to this question. However the photographs provided do show a very small cross section of AOT troops and what they were wearing on campaign.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo!

To further the discussion, an enlargement:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y104/Michael1787/CWsharpshootercrop.jpg

Curt

[nosara]

I agree with an earlier post that the images that we most commonly find are studio pictures. A soldier at his best. The current number of "loud" cravats in use seems overblown. Why would a soldier in the ranks wish to stand out ?
C.Gould
"Brunswick Riflemen"

[AZReenactor]

At least for the United States troops serving under James Carleton in Arizona and New Mexico the cravat was a popular choice it seems, since they were given the option of wearing a cravat in lieu of the leather stock while on the march across the desert in the summer of 1862.

Having regularly worn a cravat as well as a neck stock I can assure you, the later is not only more comfortable but also serves to keep the sweat from rolling down ones neck onto their back too readily. In cold weather either are equally useful at keeping the neck warm.

[Raven]

Not very Common, for a cravat would probably considered pointless and would be tossed away.

[AZReenactor]

Cameron,
Do you have any documentation to support such a broad statement, or is it mere conjecture based on what you've seen at reenactments?

Good research, requires more than an opinion.
Not very Common, for a cravat would probably considered pointless and would be tossed away.

[Dreamer42]

While one usually cannot find specific mentioning of everything we, as reenactors, are looking for, I feel that we may allow ourselves the ability to read between the lines. For example, when Joshua Calloway's 28th Alabama was on its way into Kentucky, he mentions dropping (and leaving) their knapsacks and excess clothing, except one extra shirt, prior to a very long march. Does this mean EVERY soldier did exactly as Joshua did? I doubt it. Does he specifically mention a cravat? No. But I cannot believe that cravats would be kept, when so much else was left behind. Later he compains about being naked to the elements that October. Another indication that very little clothing was available.

Many years ago I owned an original photo which showed the soldier holding a 1841 rifle and 1859 pistol and wearing a cravat. His only uniform was a kepi. Definately a studio pose.

- Jay Reid
Dreamer42
9th Texas

[yankee]

Those of you whom have the book, EOG: arms and equipage the union. on page 124, on the first row of men, sixth man. He is wearing a cravat or necktie. they are sitting on lookout mountain. Also, there is one man on page 8, there is a man on the second row far left and he is also wearing a necktie.

-Matthew Rennier
My two cents.

[Son of Eire]

If you go to the LOC Prints and Photographs site and load the uncompressed TIF file it becomes clear that this is not a cravat. I would post the file, but it is entirely too large to fit on the forum.

[cap tassel]

I've read the thread and didn't see any mention of the quote in the chapter From Finery to Tatters in The Life of Johnny Reb. It's of an Alabama soldier to his brother back home and it brings up some questions.


"I...receive ...the bundle you sent me ... can put everything to advantage except the cravat - If I was to put it on the Boys would laugh at me."


What's interesting is his brother obviously didn't think anything wrong with sending a cravat. Best we can tell the soldier was influenced by peer pressure not to wear it. I'm wondering if that meant a cravat wasn't 'military' enough. Would this sort of be saying 'hey I'm in the army now, I can't be wearing a cravat'. The book doesn't give any more info than that. The cite says it comes from Court Martial Records.

...oh wait I see now that the citizen forum thread was after a lot of the posts here. The case was made there very well that a cravat was something everybody wore.