British Ready Round Pouch

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

What is the "British Ready Round Pouch" used for? I have looked through my books, and tried to find some information on the internet, but have been unable to find anything. Here is a link to Richmond Depot company's page, where they are selling one. http://www.richmonddepot.com/ Thanks

Andrew

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Andrew,

Sorry I don't have the citation to back this up...as this comes from a book Scott Hanes had showed me a number of years ago. Maybe Scott will provide the reference to back the following up.

Under the British system:

The familiar rectangular box mounted from a shoulder sling (box-belt), would actually be the Reserve Cartridges, in which 5 packs of 10 cartridges each would be stored. Important, since this is the pouch that provides protection to the cartridges through flaps, and the box tin.

Upon emptying the Ready-Round Pouch (ball-bag), one would take an ammunition package from the Reserve box on the right hip, unwrap these and place the now loose cartridges in the Ready-Round Pouch. which would be mounted on the front right hip.

Now the Brits also issued box-belt mounted cap pouches, as well as some waist-belt mounted cap pouches.

Hope this helps...and I hope Scott or someone else will post the reference book on British Equipment and Procedures, including the use of this in the Confederate Army.

Paul B.

[FloridaConscript]

Andrew,
Try checking out some of the Colin McRae threads, there is a ton of info in British accoutrements in there. Also, the book isn't in front of me, but Ic an swear there is a picture of soldier from the 35th Ga in Tom Arliskas' book showing a ready round pouch. Lee White has posted a picture od KIA CS soldier with one as well.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

Thanks for the info. These sound like rather interesting items. Thanks

Andrew

[3alabama]

A reproduction of one of these by an approved vendor should be coming real soon for those that have been wanting one.

[Marc29thGA]

Before the big crash, there was a nice thread on British Accoutrements and I have missed it greatly as it was one of my favorites to visit. I too am curious of the use of the Ball Bag/Expense Pouch in Confederate service & have done a little searching on the subject, but have come up empty handed so far.

[FloridaConscript]

Marc,
I'd advise the Colin Mcrae threads. There are some invoices listing ball bags in large quantities. I still can't get over those papers. A new planet was discovered in the CSuniform and equipment field. Completely changes our view, IMO.

[FloridaConscript]

Andrew,
Check out page 42 of Tom Arliskas' "Cadet Gray and Butternut Brown". A great image of Pvt William G. Howard 35th Georgia Inf. Pvt Howard has a snake buckle belt, cap pouch on the cartridge box sling (that is attached to an English box). Pvt Howard is eqiuped with a 2 band Enfield (with sword bayonet) and a rifle sling that is a dead ringer to the one Scott Hanes of the richmond depot has for sale. Gray jean coat with matching vest. The ball bag is visable by the rifle sling buckle. The real kicker is, he was killed at Fraziers Farm on June 27, 1862. Whole lotta english gear for one lowly rear rank 2 in the 35 th Ga.

Bryant/a big fan of original images and the colin mcrae papers

[Marc29thGA]

Thanks Bryant,

I do need to spend some more time in those Mcrea threads. In the thread that was lost in the crash there was discussion around return of a number (1,000 or so if I remember) of the ball bags/expense pouches from the field. That discussion wondered if they were discontinued from use as unnecessary; returned for repair or returned for conversion. I would like to add one for my kit if would be appropriate and useful.

I am familiar with the picture you’ve mentioned in “Cadet Gray…” and it is a great shot of a soldier with Brit gear. I also enjoyed reading “Red Clay to Richmond, Trail of the 35th Georgia Infantry Regiment” by John J. Fox. A good book and there is an interesting tidbit in the appendix linking a lady in the town where I was raised here in Maine and the 35th. There are a couple pictures (undated) in it of 35th soldiers from Co D that do not have Brit gear. On pg 153 might have a ’41 or ’61 style cartridge box, but the sling and box look to be buff or natural leather too – the photo is not the best quality. Thus it could be possible that Co K of the 35th received the Brit gear, or Co D did not. And/or pictures were taken of the 2 before being outfitted with Brit gear.

On Page 30 of Wiley Sword’s book “Firepower from Abroad” is a very clear picture of an unidentified soldier with an Enfield - sword bayonet affixed, snake belt, cartridge box and sling mounted cap pouch. The way he is wearing the cap pouch would spill the caps when he opened the flap. However he does not have a ball bag/expense pouch.

Thanks again,

[LWhite64]

I posted something long ago about the 10th Mississippi in the summer of 62 being issued full sets of British accoutrements including ball bags. If anyone has that handy it would be good to repost.

Lee

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

Here is a picture of PVT Johnson of the 45th Georgia infantry. I think he is wearing a English ready round pouch.

[FloridaConscript]

Andrew,
Great find. Any other info on Pvt Johnson as far as enlistment, KIA POW or when photo was taken?

As an aside, I've always been curious about photos taken with lockplates facing in. Is this the mark of a newly enlisted solider with a photog's prop, or one who isn't very familiar with the manual of arms?? thoughts?

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

No, I do not have any information on the photo. I found while looking through the forum today. I wonder if he was using it as a cap box, because I do not think he is wearing one.

Andrew

[btfire]

This image is from 1860 in Australia.
http://www.trampbrigade.com/Images/Equipment/austrailiansoldier.jpg

[Marc29thGA]

Nice find Andrew – thanks for posting.

You are right; it does not look like he has a cap pouch and very well could be using it for caps.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

I have been noticing that when ever a soldier has English equipment on, it is all English. Meaning, that I have never seen a soldier wearing a English snake belt with a CS issue cartridge box or other piece of CS issue equipment. While I know these items were bought in sets, I always assumed that they were just put together with the CS equipment, and the depot issue whatever was on hand. But these CS photos make me think that that the depots kept these British equipment sets together, rather then spliting them up. Just a thought.

Does anyone make one of these pouches?

Andrew

[Matt_E_Wright]

Hi,

No, I do not have any information on the photo. I found while looking through the forum today. I wonder if he was using it as a cap box, because I do not think he is wearing one.

Andrew

Or his cartridge box could be of the type that has a cap pouch sewn to the body underneath the outer flap...


Matt Wright

[kylethebrass]

Andrew,

Richmond Depot has to org. round pouches listed on their website.

[Erik]

This photograph is the typical reversed image used for...(help me here photo enthusiasts).
The ball bag, expense pouch, enfield cartridge box are great.
Take a look nat the opposite side and you can discern something directly behind the trigger guard of his rifle. A cap pouch?
Maybe or quite possibly.
Good discussion point.

Erik Simundson

[Andrew Kasmar]

Andrew,
Richmond Depot has to org. round pouches listed on their website.
__________________
Kyle Russell
Federal City Brass Band &
26th North Carolina Regimental Band

Hi,

Actually, that is why I started this thread. I had never seen one before, and was wondering what they were used for. While I would love to own it, I am looking for one a little closer to my price range.:wink_smil

[btfire]

English gear went way beyond just the cap pouch, cartridge box, belt, scabbard/frog, and rifle. When an infantry soldier in the English army received his gear, it came from a box that included everything the soldier needed. There are references in the Mcrae papers to the infantry set, and from what I have read about the English army in the mid-19th century, this was again everything. When you opened the box, it had anywhere from five to ten sets. The first soldier would walk up and get everything he needs for a campaign except rounds, food and water. What he did have was the way to carry food and water and cook it to. He also received his gear for camping and sleeping. Some would scoff to say that CSA soldiers received the same, but several states imported English gear when the CS government in Richmond had left them high and dry to outfit volunteers. South Carolina sent plenty of captured Fed weapons north to VA and received only money in return. Then they ran plenty of stuff through the blockade to outfit soldiers in late 61 and early 62...

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

Thanks for the info.

Andrew

[Marc29thGA]

Take a look nat the opposite side and you can discern something directly behind the trigger guard of his rifle. A cap pouch?


Hard to say Erik, it does not look like anything beyond the outline of the belt. Seems like an odd position to wear one too - oposite of the cartridge box.

[Marc29thGA]

Brian - Great info! Very interesting to read too!

Thank you,

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

I have been recommended, by a gentleman, this site for the purchase of one of these pouches. http://www.britishmilitaryequipments.com/

Andrew

[Moose]

Andrew,
I don't know about the vendor you've been given, but I have a full set of English equipment. Mine was given to me as a gift, and came from a variety of sources:

Ball Bag & Cap Pouch: Malcom Adams
Belt & Frog: Brad Malone
Box: L.D. Hanning
Scabbard: Jarnagin (hand-sewn version)
Bayonet: Original from Tim Prince

Attached are some photos with a few close-ups of the ball bag.

Cheers,

[yeoman]

Sir, If I may throw in, here is another box which looks a little like the one from the post #25 link.
http://www.andersonmilitaria.com/Web_Pages/belts_buckles/belts__buckles.htm
the item is, 8BBL.
My 2 cents, thanks.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

Thanks for posting the pictures. Do you happen to know what pattern your Ball Bag is? I have seen originals like yours, and Richmond Depot has one like the one offered by couple of vendors that I have seen. EOG CS has a black version of the one that Richmond Deopot is offering, and the EOG US has one that looks just like the one you have.
As of right now, am not sure who I am going to buy one from, I have been told that Duvall might be making them soon. So I think I am going to wait a little bit and look around. Thanks info.

Andrew

[Duvall Leatherwork]

Andrew,

Hey Man, Look What I've Been Working On!! Available very soon...

Merry Christmas!

Nick Duvall
Duvall Leatherwork
314 Wyoming Ave
Kingston, PA 18704
(570)283-9297
duvall_leatherwork@hotmail.com
www.duvallleatherwork.com

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

English gear went way beyond just the cap pouch, cartridge box, belt, scabbard/frog, and rifle. When an infantry soldier in the English army received his gear, it came from a box that included everything the soldier needed. There are references in the Mcrae papers to the infantry set, and from what I have read about the English army in the mid-19th century, this was again everything. When you opened the box, it had anywhere from five to ten sets. The first soldier would walk up and get everything he needs for a campaign except rounds, food and water. What he did have was the way to carry food and water and cook it to. He also received his gear for camping and sleeping. Some would scoff to say that CSA soldiers received the same, but several states imported English gear when the CS government in Richmond had left them high and dry to outfit volunteers. South Carolina sent plenty of captured Fed weapons north to VA and received only money in return. Then they ran plenty of stuff through the blockade to outfit soldiers in late 61 and early 62...


Documentation??

Paul B.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Andrew,

Hey Man, Look What I've Been Working On!! Available very soon...

Merry Christmas!

Nick Duvall

Hi,

Cool!!!!!!!!!!

Andrew

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Hey Man, Look What I've Been Working On!! Available very soon...

Merry Christmas!

Nick, I'd been meaning to pick-up a British Snake Belt and Enfield Scabbard, that will seal the deal. Will you have the ball bag out in time for Tax Season?

[musketbal]

Hi guys,
Is any one aware how often the ball bag was used by Federal and Confederate units in conjuction with the cartridge box during the Civil War? It makes sence to use the ball bag during battle. If the cartridges can been seen, then less time is used in finding them when time means life or death. I know many confederates are shown in pictures eliminating the box sling and have the cartridge box attached to the waist belt. During battle the box would be slid around to the front right of the soldier.and cartridges retrieved. The main problem is the amount of weight a loaded cartridge box would place on the hip and belt with out the support of the box sling. Perhaps the ball bags were used more than originally thought.
This a shot in the dark, but was any of the Federal Maryland (1st Eastern Shore) Infantry issued British leather sets.I have been waiting since Mobey Dick was a minow (a long time) to buy English leather gear from Nick Duvall. I have my Maryland Confederate impression and will definately get the cartridge box, but wondering about ordering all Nicks British set, that is if the gear is also sold as a set. It will be worth the wait!

Thanks,
Brent Conner

[Marc29thGA]

Brent,

This thread has additional information of Federal use of British gear: http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14324&highlight=44th+Massachusetts

There was an article called “The Use of English Weapons and Accoutrements by Massachusetts Volunteers 1861-1863” in the May/June 1983 issue of North South Trader magazine.

Hope this helps you in your search.

[WpnsMan]

For British leather accoutrements I stumbled upon Heritage Leather (heritageleathercw.com) from one of my pards. Bill Doner out of Wendell, NC is the maker. I had not heard of this sutler before but my friend showed me some of the confederate leather he had purchased from him. All seemed to be quality leather with hand stitched construction.

Looking at their website they have many offerings that may be of interest to others here. Though it seems to be under construction as some items do not have photos posted yet. Mr. Doner does offer several variations of British gear from belts, box slings, cap pouches, ready or “ball” bags in black and buff leather to include four variations of the Enfield cartridge box. Though the pictures only offer a limited view of the items at this point.

Has anyone else dealt with this sutler, his items seem to be of quality and he has competitive prices. I am seriously considering one of his snake belts.

[M.Latham]

All,

Let me speak up for Nick Duvall's reproduction of the Pattern 1860 British expense pouch or "ball bag".

As I supplied the pattern piece I can say without any doubt he has captured all the nuance of the item perfectly, and it is the best item of this type to go into production bar none.

The MacRae papers and extent photographs show these items were in use, though perhaps not in the original intended method of keeping 10 rounds "at the ready".