Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

[trippcor]

The Bummers 2009 event offers us a unique opportunity to use some of the more advanced weapons of the Civil War. It is well documented that many of Sherman’s Bummers went out of their way to get equipped with some of the best weapons they could find including Spencer and Henry Rifles. As a matter of fact several of the units being portrayed were selected largely because it was documented that they were armed with repeating weapons.

While this chance and excuse to purchase a Spencer or a Henry sounds great on paper, many folks do not have one of these sitting in their closets and a new one is not cheap. A Spencer Rifle, which is being reproduced by Armisport, is currently running for between $1,300.00 and $1,500.00. Henry Rifles are going for $1,100.00 to $1,300.00. This is not cheap especially in this economy.

Cost
Matt Woodburn and I are working on a deal to make getting a Spencer or Henry a little easier on the wallet. We have worked out some reduced pricing if we buy in bulk. So here is the base pricing we have so far for each. This does not include shipping and any AFT transfer fees.

• Spencer Rifle - $925.00 - must have at least 10 orders
• Henry Rifle - $870.00 - no minimum order

So if you want one of this fine weapons participating in this purchase would save you a couple of hundred dollars. Even with the savings this is still not cheap. Again we have come up with a couple of options to help folks out that want to have or use a repeater for Bummers. All money must be turned in by Aug 10, 2009 to ensure weapons can be delivered on time for the event.

So which one to get?
Well according to what I have found over 200,000 Spencer Rifles and Carbines were made and only 14,000 Henrys were produced. The Spencer was first used in combat in October of 1862 with the 1st Massachusetts Cavalry at a skirmish near Cumberland Maryland. The Army began to receive contract delivers in late December of 1862. The Army ordinance department only purchased 1.731 Henry Rifles. The remainders were all private purchases for individual units. Here are some links to more about these weapons:

http://www.civilwarguns.com/spencer1.html
http://www.civilwarguns.com/spencer2.html
http://www.civilwar.si.edu/weapons_henry.html

What is I can’t afford one?
If you are like me you have a hard time saving money. If I have it I will spend it. So to help folks with similar leanings, Matt Woodburn has created an escrow account. All you have to do is send him a check for whatever amount you can afford and it will be deposited in the account for you allowing you to save the money over time. If for some reason you decide want your money back before the purchase of the weapons, whatever you have deposited will be returned to you in full. If you want to begin saving money in this escrow account just send checks or money orders made out to Matt Woodburn at:

Matt Woodburn
235 3rd Avenue South
Franklin, Tn 37064

Make sure to include what it is for (Bummers Spencer or Henry) and you contact info including email address so Matt can let you know when he receives the check. If you have any questions about the escrow account contact Matt at rmwoodburn@aol.com.

We are also working on a special ammunition buy for these as well. Hopefully we will be able to post more information on that soon. We also have some details to work out on shipping and transfer fees with the ATF. Spencers and Henrys are considered modern weapons by the ATF. So there are a couple of issues that must be worked out since these must be shipped to someone with an FFL license.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Tripp,

Thanks for posting the information! As a VERY interested party I have a few questions that I think others may have as well.

First off, I was aware of the Henry project but did not know that a Spencer rifle bulk buy was in the works. I'm attracted to the Spencer because of it's better reputation for more stopping power and its better versatility in CW impressions. Do you know if this weapon will be appropriate and accepted in Woodburn's company or is he looking for all the men to be armed with Henrys and then a different company will be armed with the Spencers?

Secondly, I know that the Umberti Henry has a strong reputation for authenticity and is a top rate firearm, but can anyone comment on the Armi Sport Spencer? I have studied and worked with reproduction Sharps rifles for years and the Armi Sport model of the Sharps is not the most well-ranked reproduction, but I would love to hear some informed reviews about their Spencer before I consider plunking down the cash.

Finally, can anyone say whether a C&R FFL license will allow either of these weapons to be shipped to the purchaser? I am certain that most folks would like to acclimate themselves with their rifles before arriving in Georgia, and as a person that is well-acquainted with breech loaders I'm not 100% confident that I could be proficient with a repeater if I received it the day before I was in action. As such, I would love to have it as soon as possible and wondered what the possibility for this would be.

I am very excited about this project, and my hat is off to you and Matt for undertaking such an ambitious program. I know that it will require a lot of out-of-pocket money, but varied armament is certainly one thing I have thought lacking in our end of the hobby in the past, and it takes a lot of guts to approach something like this head on. Rest assured that my deposit check with be coming just as soon as I figure out which rifle I want!

Thank you for any help/advice you (or anyone else) can offer. I appreciate all the time you folks have put into this and look forward to taking advantage of it!


Best Regards,

[JimKindred]

Dan,

The answer to shipping these to a C&R is - NO. They do not fall into the category of a C&R firearm, these are Title I firearms requiring that they go to a dealer FFL.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/2001index.htm


WHAT ARE CURIOS OR RELICS?

As set out in the regulations (27 CFR 478.11), curios or relics include firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
1.) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
2.) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
3.) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector’s items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/1972-2007/introduction.pdf

If any one involved in this project has questions about ATF regulations I will be more than happy to assist you either in this thread or via PM. I have been an FFL dealer since 1983 and currently hold a Class III FFL/SOT. I work with the regs on a daily basis.

[trippcor]

Dan,
Those are some good questions. I will take a try at answering them.


Do you know if this weapon will be appropriate and accepted in Woodburn's company or is he looking for all the men to be armed with Henrys and then a different company will be armed with the Spencers?

Matt wants his party to be armed almost to the man with Henrys. The unit Mr. Craddock has choosen to attempt to portray, the 76th Indiana, was armed with Spencers. So that is the weapon perferred for that foraging party though Mr. Craddock said he is willing to allow Henrys or other breech loaders as well but spencers are the perferred weapon.


Secondly, I know that the Umberti Henry has a strong reputation for authenticity and is a top rate firearm, but can anyone comment on the Armi Sport Spencer?
I own an Armisport Spencer Carbine. It is like most reproductions it needs some work. I am not an expert by any means but the carbine is not bad. It needs the modern markings removed and such but it is reliable. The Rifle has one big glaring flaw. It comes with the Cavalry sling bar attached. This can be fixed without to much hassle if you have a tap and die set. I am sure there are a couple of folks that are more knowledgeable that can get into the exact details.

Finally, can anyone say whether a C&R FFL license will allow either of these weapons to be shipped to the purchaser?
See Jim's post above.

Hope this helps.

[JimKindred]

When it comes to the markings on the either the Spencer or the Henry for God's sake do not remove or move the serial number. Under ATF regulations this constitutes a felony. These rifles put you in an entirely different legal ball game from muzzleloaders.

P.11 para 922 (k)

http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/18usc_chap44.pdf

(k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered, or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Thanks guys! It never ceases to amaze me how fast questions can be answered on this forum.

Luckily, there is a small mom and pop gun store about a block away from my house (yes folks, they do still exist but are getting to be an endangered species.) I will check to see if they will receive shipment of a firearm for a small fee.

Thanks again and have a good one!


Best,

Dan

[Brian Baird]

You can find a dealer to transfer from this site:

http://www.gunbroker.com/User/DealerNetwork.asp

Most dealers around here in Illinois want $40.00 to $50.00 for a transfer.

Brian Baird

[JordanRicketts]

Matt,

I have no problems driving to Franklin to pick up my Henry when it arrives!! Just tell me when and where to pick it up at!

Jordan Ricketts

[JimKindred]

Shop around for FFL transfer prices, $40 -50 is on the high side but unfortunately in IL about the norm. I normally charge $10 if none of my money is involved in the purchase such as on an auction or $20 if I have to front the money for a special order.

Long guns can be purchased by out of state residents from an FFL dealer with no problem unless it violates the state laws of the purchaser. Using Jordan as an example he would have no problem picking one of these up from a dealer in Franklin, TN.

[MarkTK36thIL]

Any word on a Blakeslee cartridge box bully buy then or how the infantrymen who privately purchased these rifles carried their extra ammo/tubes?

[LibertyHallVols]

Just so I understand...
The Spencers are rifles (aka "3-banders")?

Thanks, Fellers!

[trippcor]

We are talking about the Spencer Rifle not the Carbine for this effort. This is a three bander. Here is a link to Armisports website so you can see a picture and get more info. http://www.armisport.com/eng/dettaglioA.asp?idSottoFamiglia=44

[ajroscoe]

I also have two quick questions. Is there a reliable source of blank ammunition for the Spencers or Henrys, and did troops carry bayonets with their Spencers? I know that the Henry does not carry one, but as I recall, the Spencer could carry one. I know time, place, and unit matters on the bayonet question, but at least some idea one way or another would be nice.

[trippcor]

Yes there are reliable sources from blanks for both. The Spencer 56-50 blanks are not cheap if you get the brass ones. There is a company here in the Atlanta area that makes a harden plastic blank cartiridge that works well. As I said we are working on putting together some sort of bulk buys for these as well. Due to the popularity of Wild West shooting, blanks for the Henry are easily availible. Matt already has a lead on this from a guy that makes blanks for Hollywood. He might even do the Spencer blanks.

[Matt Woodburn]

Hey guys,

To answer some questions that have come up. I prefer Henry's in the company that Justin Runyon, Scott Busenbark and I are putting together, the 1st Missouri Engineers. If someone wants to carry a Spencer that's fine, but they'll need to buy one. I will only have Henry's availble for rental, and then only to those in my company. I can afford to spot one company, but not a battalion. And getting this quantity has some challenges as I learned from Jim Kindred a couple days ago. He's getting all the info for us to do this smoothly and legally. I should have that info next week.

[trippcor]

I just got an updated price on the Spencer Rifles. They are now $925.00 instead of $1,125.00. The original price I had was a couple of months old when the US dollar was down against most other currencies. Now they all are down so we can get a better deal.

One thing I forgot to mention was that the manufacturer will need at least a 60 day notice with an order this large. So the money for these will all need to be in by Aug 10, 2009 to give us a little buffer.

I also want to thank Jim Kindred for helping Matt and I navigate the legal issues on this one. He is making sure we all stay in the good graces of the ATF.

[Dbackfed]

Sign me up for a Spencer! I only thought they made a repro of the 1865 version.

[JimKindred]

It will be the 1865, ArmiSport has it misidentified on their website as the 1860.

This is the same rifle ArmiSport calls an 1860 - http://www.taylorsfirearms.com/products/cfSpencer.tpl

I would not be too be picky between the 1860 and 1865, both were rimfires and the reproduction is not. You have to have a little give and take on these if you want a Spencer of any kind.

[Mike Nickerson]

Yes there are reliable sources from blanks for both. The Spencer 56-50 blanks are not cheap if you get the brass ones. There is a company here in the Atlanta area that makes a harden plastic blank cartridge that works well. As I said we are working on putting together some sort of bulk buys for these as well. Due to the popularity of Wild West shooting, blanks for the Henry are easily available. Matt already has a lead on this from a guy that makes blanks for Hollywood. He might even do the Spencer blanks. ...

To say the "harden plastic blanks" work well, might be a little bit of a reach. If you talk to some of my fellow Critters, you will find some repo Spencer’s do OK with the plastic shells and some don't. My Spencer carbine took modification of the loading tube to feed correctly (flaring out the mouth of the slide tube).

Also, if I fire over 10 to 20 rounds (enough to get the barrel hot), I experience an occasional tearing off of the plastic extraction flange. Which leaves a stuck round in the breech. This problem led the Critters to having one trooper carrying "the stick", a make shift wooden dowel used to drive the stuck round out of the breech.

Here is a link to a Cav. discussion on ammo that may be helpful: http://uhlan.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=weapons&action=display&thread=145
Also Henry blanks (3 in 1) at $0.62 per round by mail at: http://www.cmsaweb.com/store/page14.html

As for the "Blakeslee cartridge box," might want to do some research. They were issued late and in small numbers.

Hope that helps!

Mike Nickerson

[trippcor]

The loading tub on my Spencer Carbine had to be flared a little too. This took all of 5 seconds at an event. I too had a problem with the first round of plastic blanks Coley had made. Since then they hardened them a bit more and I have not had trouble. Of course any plastic is going to weaken when heat is applied. As I said brass ones are availble though I have not tried them.

Cost wise though the Brass are much more expensive. Brass blanks are almost a $1.00 a round at normal retail prices. The plastic ones run about $0.40 around.

[BrianHicks]

I'm in for a Spencer Rifle.

[Mike Nickerson]

....The plastic ones run about $0.40 around.

Tripp, that's not counting the price of loading up with B/P and shotgun primers?

Mike Nickerson

[Csayankee]

Jordan,

I have a gun shop around the corner that will cost only $15 dollars for a transfer if you need I can grab it for you.

[Shotgun Messiah]

Okay now I am interested.. I want a Spencer rifle, even though I will be Georgia Militia, I want one, so Maybe rent a Spencer offer ....

[thad gallagher]

I am in for a Spencer. It had always been my "dream" rifle, and the one I would get when I won the lottery. Now thanks to Mr. Woodburn's and Mr. Corbin's efforts and the "layaway program" it is actually doable.:)

[trippcor]

I also wanted to mention the Spencers also come with a nice hard plastic carrying case.

[Matt Woodburn]

Guys,

To help all of you get the answers you need (I've been getting alot of emails and PMs)...Tripp knows all the info (cost, shipping costs, shipping requirements, FFL transfer costs, model, where to get rounds, cost of rounds, modification requirements if any, pickup locations, etc. on the Spencers. I know the info on the Henrys. The rental program mentioned, probably shouldn't have been mentioned. I am doing this with Henry's only, and then only in my foraging party. I'd love to be able to finance this for everyone, but I'm stopping at the 25 in my party. I hope you guys understand. But anyone who wants to buy can still save an average of $300 on either of these fine rifles. Buying 25 Henrys at one time is causing issues with the ATF that we're are working around to keep it legal. In the eyes of the ATF, Henry's and Spencers are the same thing as a modern civilian AR-15. Center fire, metallic cartridge, repeating/semi-automatic weapon. The only mechanical difference is gas vs. manual lever cartridge cycling. So, it's very different than muzzle loaders. Actually I can BUY 100 Henrys with no problem. Taking RECEIPT of 100 Henrys would get me and the FFL holder a special visit from the ATF. But we have a good man working on this who has been doing this for 30 years. He knows the laws and is getting it worked out, so this can happen. I am working on pickup possibilities also and will do all that I can within the law to save you guys money. The most expensive method will be you paying for shipping from my FFL dealer to your FFL dealer who also charges you a fee. The least expensive is for me to get these and you pick them up, but it has some legal challenges that we are looking into. More on how we do this later. As for rounds for the Henrys, I am working with a supplier that will make black powder blanks that will cycle with no jamming or require modifications to the Henrys. Making this as smooth and seamless as possible.

So info for Henrys as of now:

Model: Civil War brass frame, without sling swivels (swivels available at extra charge)
Caliber: 44-40 center fire (45 LC available for purchasers, but you figure out your own blanks)
Modification requirements for blanks: none
Cost: $870 ($933 with swivels)
Shipping to my FFL dealer: TBD
Shipping to you: TBD
FFL dealer transfer fee: TBD
Cost of metallic rounds: estimated at $35/100 rounds in 44-40 caliber in the Woodburn buy from joeswansonblanks.com

Bottom line for purchasers: you'll spend $900-$950 for a fine Henry rifle which will save you $200-300 on the retail price. You will have it to use at future mid-late war events for as many years as you stay in the hobby. It will also be a fine civilian impression rifle. Many of the older guys that will be leaving military impressions in the next 10 years will have a very useable rifle for post war/going west/mining camp/old west/etc. events that many of us are already planning (some of these will be more fun than Civil War events). The Henrys will also be alot of fun for live target shooting and hunting (know the laws in your state before you hunt). And if you ever decide to sell your Henry, whether it's in 1 year or in 30 years, you can mark it up to $1000, undercut what new ones sell for, and still sell it for a profit. Now that makes sense. So much sense, that if I didn't have the money in my regular budget but really wanted one, I'd take a part-time job -temporarily- delivering pizzas. I'd have my money in only 30-60 days. I'd do it before summer and get in on this deal. Even if it's for a Spencer. And if not pizzas, some other part-time job that could make me a quick $1000. A bar tender or server at a busy restaurant, a busy hotel valet all can make that in 30 days. If you have some "stuff" that you don't use anymore in the garage, basement, closet..., you could put it on Ebay or have a garage sale. A few guys are selling knit wool items to buy their rifle. More specials to be announced on the AC this year! I used to go around and get used skids/pallets from businesses and take them to a pallet refurbisher to get $2-$3 each to make my hobby money. Then it's over and you got your rifle. Your rifle would become an item of pride to you. It would remind you that when you wanted something extra, you took the bull by the horns and did something to make it happen. It would stand as confidence building reminder that you can get something done when you set your mind to it. I hope this encourages everyone of you that really wants a rifle to know you can get one.

[BrandonEnglish]

I also have two quick questions. Is there a reliable source of blank ammunition for the Spencers or Henrys, and did troops carry bayonets with their Spencers? I know that the Henry does not carry one, but as I recall, the Spencer could carry one. I know time, place, and unit matters on the bayonet question, but at least some idea one way or another would be nice.

For my money for both my Henry and my M1 in WWII stuff, Joe Swanson is the best guy out there for blanks, they are hot rounds and don't "leak" like a lot of blank guys out there. Joe makes his own 5-1 blanks for the Henry out of brass and he can do black and smokeless powder, they are leaps and bounds over the plastic 5-1 that Cabelas, etc sell.

[trippcor]

I have contacted Joe Swanson about the blanks for the Spencers as well. Waiting on word. I am hoping we can get a good price and possibly some additional discounts we are able to order both the Henry and Spencer blanks from the same place.

[JimKindred]

To add to what Matt wrote about the Henry's, when the last assault weapons ban was written Henry rifles were listed as an assault rifle due to the number of rounds held in the magazine. Fortunately good sense entered the picture and they were exempt from the first ban. You can count on this ban coming up again within the next four years, will it be voted in? No one can say for sure but with the caliber of our D's and R's in congress the ban is still a possibility. Will Henry's be exempt? Currently they are listed on the 2008 proposal as assault weapons, I kid you not. If you thought this was all about AK's and AR's you are wrong.

Appendix A shows the list being proposed - http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/~c1108THhy8:e12727: I am sure there are a few of you who have Marlin 30-30s in your closet, yep, those will be assault weapons too.

So the bottom line of all this is if you want a Henry, get it and avoid the rush. As in the first ban currently owned models manufactured before the ban will probably be exempt. If they are banned you can expect the prices to double or triple overnight.

Oh, don't think you are safe with a Spencer either, these could just as easily end up on the list.

On another subject Matt brought up, to save you some money I can ship these directly from my place of business to your local FFL. This is how the deal with "Spencers for Critters" program worked several years ago. The only difference was that with the Critters each member paid for his own rifle through me. Matt and I can work this out later as this program matures.

Shipping is the least complicated part of this whole deal.

[Will Eichler]

Gents,

What a headache for Tripp, Jim and Matt. Thanks, fellows!!!! Put me in for a Spencer.

The cool hard-plastic case sent me over the top - kidding!

Will

[blackhattertuck]

Matt,

A question that just occured to me,

If we purchase a Henry from you, do we get any blanks with that purchase, or must we purchase them seperately?
Not wanting to sound stingy, mind you, just wanting to plan ahead.

[Justin Runyon]

Adam

Purchasing a Henry out-right will require you to purchase the rounds as well. Rental Henrys will include rounds in the rental fee.

[Matt Woodburn]

Adam,

As Runyon said, yes you will need to buy rounds if you buy a Henry. The rental price will include 100 rounds. Hope this helps.

[blackhattertuck]

Adam,

As Runyon said, yes you will need to buy rounds if you buy a Henry. The rental price will include 100 rounds. Hope this helps.

[Putting on hat of 1800's rube] So, yall's tellin' me, I caint jus' pour th' powder down th' barral? Mister Henry, you'll never sell none o' them thar guns. :wink_smil

[trippcor]

Guys,
I need to clear up one other issue. This special purchase is for those attending the Bummers Event and is not open to everyone. You must be registered for Bummers to take part in this event to purchase at this price.

[LejeuneMarine]

Matt,
Man I wish I could join ya'll on this purchase! Thanks to my wife watching Dave Ramsey... this will be difficult convincing her of the value of buying a henry while I am still paying on student loans. Maybe I can justify it somehow. What is your deadline?

Regards,
Mike Pretus

[Justin Runyon]

Mike,
There is great Irony in your not being able to get in on a deal orchestrated by Woodburn because of Dave Ramsey. :)

[FlatLandFed]

"Mike, There is great Irony in your not being able to get in on a deal orchestrated by Woodburn because of Dave Ramsey."

Ah, friend Pumpkinhead, the same thought crossed my mind -- according to my copy of the "university" kit Matt helped assemble back in the day, my "emergency fund" needs to be pointed toward fixing the ancient Bonneville with the melted engine, not a new Henry in the impression wardrobe. Sigh. It's no fun being the grown up.

At least I hope to be in on the stroll come November so that I can hear his company popping away with their new rim fire rifles.

Cheers,
Paul Hadley

[Matt Woodburn]

Mike and Paul, there may still be options in your future for this. A few of the guys in my foraging party will not buy one, but will rent from me. Any rentals that guys decide not to buy, I will be selling at the end of the year just in time for '09 Christmas presents.

[Matt Woodburn]

Guys,

I'll be ordering 25 Henry's for my foraging party within the month. If you want to buy one and are with another foraging party, I will add yours to my order so you definately get the discounted price. If you do not order with me now, you will have another opportunity to order a Henry at a discount (Uberti raises prices about twice a year so you will get a discount but it may not be this good) through Tripp Corbin when the Spencer rifle buy goes in. To order with me now requires $900 sent to me by January 25th. Those of you in my foraging party who are buying that want to pay for your rifle now may also send in your money. Those in my foraging party who are on my layaway plan need only to continue sending your checks. When you have enough, I'll make arrangements with you to get your rifle. The $900 covers the $870 Uberti Model 239, brass frame, 24.5" barrel, no sling swivels, in 44-40 caliber and shipping to get it to Jim Kindred. Whatever shipping charges there will be to get it from Kindred to you, local FFL fees if that is required for you, etc. will be additional charges. If there is any money left over from your $900 because we get a good shipping price, you will be refunded any of your money that was not used. I will keep complete records of the receipts to provide to anyone who needs a breakdown after this is all done. Get your orders in to me! Last call for the first train to Henryville!

[Thomas Alleman]

So how does the renting work and at what cost of the renting a Henry? And is there a option to buy at the end? It is soooooo Tempting, that is a excellent gun and I do like foraging.

[GreencoatCross]

I never thought I'd live to see the day that specialty impressions would be so widely accepted. Talking about the use of previously "taboo" weapons, of course....not at all like trying to do an authentic western or Berdan sharpshooter impression. :D

Will the market be flooded with used Henry repeating rifles after this or is there some kind of underground plan to form a 7th Illinois Infantry impression?

[trippcor]

Guys,
I have trimmed this thread down so it contains just the post concerning the Bummers buy. All the other discussion has been moved to the Camp of Instruction folder. Hopefully this will make it easier to follow for those just looking for information on the Buy but also give folks access to the technical information that was being discussed. Please limit the discussion on this thread to questions regarding the weapons purchase. Thanks

[Justin Runyon]

Tom,

As stated previously, the rental program is available to the Woodburn-Runyon-Busenbark party only.

[rick35ovi]

Reading through the post i saw someone mention Plastic 56-50 blanks. I would love to hear more about these if any one has any info about them. i have an infantry Spencer in 56-50 but man it is expensive to shoot blanks. Any info would be Greatly Appreciated!

[GBOB]

I will be at Bummers and would very much like to commit to getting a Spencer for the event. Does the 'layaway' plan apply to those as well?

Thanks

[pvt_jb]

Not an approved vendor. But they have Spencer blanks. I know next to nothing about Spencers or their ammo but thought I would share.

They are about the fifth item down.

http://www.blockaderunner.com/other/hotnewitems.html

[trippcor]

Yes the lay away plan applies to the Spencers

[Shotgun Messiah]

Not an approved vendor. But they have Spencer blanks. I know next to nothing about Spencers or their ammo but thought I would share.

They are about the fifth item down.

http://www.blockaderunner.com/other/hotnewitems.html

Thanks Jeremy, but this is for .44 Russian and 44-40, not the 56-50 Blank. I hope Tripp is planning on the 56-50

[pvt_jb]

My Spencer ignorance shows through!:(

Reading through the posts it is the 56-50.

I have been getting e-mails from that vendor for a long time and always check out what is new (just in case and sometimes they have some original items). Leave it to them to have a good product/idea but not quite have it.

[Milliron]

Does anyone know where you get live ammo in .56-50?

[JimKindred]

Ten-X has factory live ammunition - 50 round box $134.99 for BPC and $129.99 for standard. http://www.tenxammo.com/files/Shooter_Direct_Pricing_3-10-08.pdf

If any of you buying one of these does not reload and you want to fire live I would strongly suggest that you look into reloading.

[Minieball577]

I will not be attending the reenactment, but I'M interested in one of the Spencer Rifles. How do I get on the list if I may not be attending the event?

[pvt_jb]

Guys,
I need to clear up one other issue. This special purchase is for those attending the Bummers Event and is not open to everyone. You must be registered for Bummers to take part in this event to purchase at this price.

Doesn't look like it Chris. Tripp posted the above a few pages back.

[Minieball577]

Well, that is a "bummer"! Thanks for the response. I guess I missed that in the lengthy number of posts.

[Will Eichler]

Chris,

Don't let it be a bummer - YOU be a Bummer! Jeremy and I and a host of other MI fellows are going down together. Come with us! Get your spencer (I know the feeling, I'm getting one). We'd love to have you.

Best,

Will

[trippcor]

We will be placing the order for these on June 1st. So if you want to take part in this Bummer Buy and save about $200 on one of these fine weapons now is the time to get your money to Matt Woodburn.

[Matt Woodburn]

Last call! Order is going in.

Amazing that we have 32 Henrys and 24 Spencers being ordered. Rebs won't stand a chance. I also got 10,000 rounds of surplus blank ammo donated from a Hollywood friend. Ok, that's just for the morons who really don't have a clue. I'll also say that we have two Sherman tanks, 60 AK-47s, and a rabid Bengal tiger that we intend to turn loose on the Johnnies. Hah! Really none of this will matter when wind fed flames in the pines reach 80 feet tall and glowing embers are actually making it to air traffic lanes. You ever see what 3200 degrees will do to a rifle? Good thing we got a discount.

Next Bully Buy: Coffins

[Milliron]

Curiously, what arrangements are going to be made for ammo? I would imagine killing Joe Brown's Pets makes these things hungry.

[thad gallagher]

Wow, what a response. So, will blocks of wood, drilled out to hold rounds be our best/accurate bet. I would hate to have my brass treats fall out of my box.

[Matt Woodburn]

Bob,

Once they are in, I'll order some ammo to test. I don't want jams at Bummers. Once I know the ammo works, I'll post info.

Thad,

There was a brass Kittredge box that was designed for Henrys. The rounds were lose in there. I will put my Henry rounds lose in a regular cartridge box. Spencers used a Blakeslee box with tubes.

[trippcor]

To add to what Matt said about spencers and cartridge boxes. Several photos show soldiers using standard boxes as well.

[Mike Nickerson]

.... Spencers used a Blakeslee box with tubes.

Matt,
That statement is not in agreement with all the research I've done and seen posted. Unless we are talking about late 1865 (in very limited numbers) and post war.

Do you have some research showing Blakeslee boxes deployed to the field, in number during the March to the sea? That would very valuable information!

I stay a mile away from Henrys for the CW, so I have no dog in that fight.

Mike Nickerson

[PetePaolillo]

Last call! Order is going in.

Amazing that we have 32 Henrys and 24 Spencers being ordered. Rebs won't stand a chance. I also got 10,000 rounds of surplus blank ammo donated from a Hollywood friend. Ok, that's just for the morons who really don't have a clue. I'll also say that we have two Sherman tanks, 60 AK-47s, and a rabid Bengal tiger that we intend to turn loose on the Johnnies. Hah! Really none of this will matter when wind fed flames in the pines reach 80 feet tall and glowing embers are actually making it to air traffic lanes. You ever see what 3200 degrees will do to a rifle? Good thing we got a discount.

Next Bully Buy: Coffins

That is classic :D

[Matt Woodburn]

Mike,

I do not have info on the Blakeslee box. If you have info on it, please post it as I'm sure it will help those who intend to carry a Spencer. I focused on the Henrys.

[PetePaolillo]

Here is a couple links I found, not sure if they might help

http://www.civilwar.si.edu/weapons_blakeslee.html

Here are some repro boxes for sale, quite pricey but look nice

http://www.cooncreekoldwest.com/cboxes.htm

http://www.cooncreekoldwest.com/images1/LG132.jpg
This is a picture of a ten tube box but the six tube box would conform to round requirements. I could not find specific use by Shermans men but the patent date shows December 1864

http://www.cavhooah.com/civil_war.htm
quoted from above link...By 1863 several models of breech-loading carbines were available in quantity for Federal cavalrymen, although opinions differed as to the qualities of the different models. With the new Blakeslee cartridge box known as the Quickloader, a trooper could fire a dozen aimed shots a minute. Yet there were many Southerners, such as Basil Duke of Morgan's cavalry, who were arguing until long after the war in favor of their old-fashioned Enfields and Springfields, which they claimed were more accurate and of longer range than the newer Spencer or Sharp's carbines.

[Coatsy]

40 rounds for Federal participants at Bummers. No exceptions. Uncle Billy said so. Don't get Uncle Billy all mad... We all know what he likes to do when angry (besides have nervous breakdowns in Kentucky....)

And also, the picture of the 7th Illinois (around their colors) shows the gents with repeaters to be using standard cartridge boxes.

[PetePaolillo]

http://www.hackman-adams.com/guns/spencermore.htm

A cartridge box was invented by Blakeslee to carry Spencer ammunition and hasten reloading. It held seven tubes of seven cartridges each to quickly slide one tube at a time into the gun.The Blakeslee box looks good in theory but was bulky. It bounced around and got in the way when in action, or on a galloping horse, or while running. They hadn’t then figured out how to hold such containers firmly to the soldier’s body. The soldiers could shoot out all the ammunition they could carry nearly as quickly when issued in bulk and carried unloaded as when preloading it into tubes without the hassle of preloading the tubes of the unwieldy Blakeslee cartridge box.

[Matt Woodburn]

Pete,

Thanks for the info. With a Dec. 1864 patent date, that won't work. I am curious about the patent date of the earlier 6 tube box.

[PetePaolillo]

Pete,

Thanks for the info. With a Dec. 1864 patent date, that won't work. I am curious about the patent date of the earlier 6 tube box.

Matt, That was the only patent date I could find (Dec 1864), and it mentioned all the sizes with that date assigned so I wonder. I am not sure which size was first patented but it looks like it was a very late war issue all around no matter size. As you said it probably won't work for the Bummers 09 impression...heck I am carrying an Enfield anyway :) but look forward to seeing all you guys.

[James the Haggard Ranger]

Matt,

Check with members of the Critter Company. Coley Adair had correct Spencer cartridge boxes made for the 1863 to early 1865 period. The seven rounds were held in cardboard tubes that fit in the cartridge box. All you did was open the correct end of the cardboard box and drop the cartridges in the Spencer sleve.

The Blakesee shows up in 1865 and there is some doubt any were issued in the western theater.

I hope this helps,

James Wooten