PDA

View Full Version : Louisianian First Person



ButtermilkRanger
02-17-2009, 05:57 PM
Mr. Holloway mentioned some great points about the Feds brushing up on their Iowan history before jumping into first person at IPW. As a native Louisianian, I'd like to suggest the same. The CS forces are portraying a Louisiana unit and it would be a nice touch to actually know something about our state. Louisiana is a rather unique state. We've got a lot in common with our sister southern states, but we've got so many other cultural influences that make us unique. We talk a little different, worship a little differently, and definitely eat a little different than the rest of the south. Despite the misconception, we're not all Cajuns and we don't all speak French. No one can deny our French heritage, but neither can they deny the Spanish, Scots-Irish, West Idies, African and American Indian influences, either. The hard part about accurately portraying a 19th Century Louisianian is that the state, as small as it is, is really divided into four or five different cultural regions. Each with its own peculiar dialect, accent, foods, religion and customs.

I'm by no means an export on Louisiana History, but I believe I can hold my own. If you have any questions about the social or political climate of the Bayou State in the mid 19th Century, just let me know. I'm here to help any way I can.

Jubilo
02-18-2009, 11:03 AM
Dear Sir,
I ain't much on the Dutch but my Louisianan comrades inform me that there was a large German presence in New Orleans and the state. Come to think on it, most of them fellers have German surnames !
all for the old flag,
David Corbett

madasabagofcats
02-20-2009, 08:44 AM
Well, as a fairly recent immigrunt to your fine State and only just missin' out on a place in Rob Wheat's fine er, band of men due to being even too dodgy to be a Tiger (grrrrrr,) I shall be regaling the local boys with some tales of mishaps and duckin' and divin' in the fair cities of Liverpool and London.

That's if they don't buck and gag me after the first half-hour....

Auld Pelty
02-20-2009, 09:54 AM
Chris,

When you go back to England, you can regale those folks with tales of scousing yankees in Louisiana and eating snakes.

Mcouioui
02-20-2009, 10:37 AM
Les francophones seront là aussi ;)

Dan Hadley
02-20-2009, 03:57 PM
One of the many rewards of this hobby I enjoy is the education I get when researching histories prior to an event, whether for my general edification or in preparation for potential first person situations.

We've been provided with some great references for the history of the 28th LA- their history, where they hailed from etc., which has prompted more investigation into the area of Winn Parish and the surrounding region. A unique problem that has vexed me however, which the written word cannot always provide a solution to, is the correct pronunciation of many of the place names throughout NW Louisiana (or the whole state, for that matter). A beautiful but sometimes perplexing mix of French, Spanish, Native and other tongues.

For example, the pronunciation of French place names I can get a handle on, but even within that context, you have the "proper" and the "vernacular" versions- example: "Bossier City" (Bo-see-ay vs. Bo-zhur). Then the Native names can require some tutoring for an outsider. At BGR I learned that nearby Natchitoches is pronounced like Nack-a-toshe. There are other names that maybe aren't as tough, that I wonder about the 'correct' or 'local' pronunciation of, such as Bienville, Rapides, Caddo, etc.

Most times I wouldn't immerse myself that deeply in preparation, but an event like this, where we are expected to maintain fir pir at all times for five straight days, a person might want to have a little store of information to draw on, to contribute into conversation when appropriate, or if asked.

Mispronounced place names are a dead giveaway, and a firpir buzz kill for someone acting as if they're from the region. But then, I wouldn't dare attempt an accent for this dialect either, so maybe the expectations won't be that high for a midwesterner trying to pretend he's a Louisianan.

I know- for the 3rd anniversary event that Fred & Tom put on (crossing fingers here), there should be a week-long immersion boot camp BEFORE the actual event, to better acquaint ourselves with local history and customs, which would necessarily include indiginous food & drink, and maybe a sighting of the bayou yeti. = )

yipper
02-20-2009, 04:30 PM
Mr. Hadley,

I live here in Natchitoches Parish during the week, as I work on the Kisatchie Ranger District, and then retreat down south to Opelousas on the weekends.

For starters, Natchitoches is pronounced “nack-uh-tish” not “toshe”.
Bienville---bee-in-vill
Rapides---rap-peeds
Caddo---kad-doh

The 28th was recruited from the north central and north western parishes and are more typical of the upland south elsewhere than what folks expect from the Acadian parishes. Natchitoches Parish had early French influence, but not Cajun..

And folks should beware the loup garou…

Regards,

geoffrey lehmann

Mcouioui
02-20-2009, 04:48 PM
Le Yéti du Bayou Frightened more than Loup Garou And then I have some transilvanien blood, I am protected... :) :) :)

madasabagofcats
02-20-2009, 07:06 PM
Chris,

When you go back to England, you can regale those folks with tales of scousing yankees in Louisiana and eating snakes.
Blimey Fergus....eating snakes? How do ya cook 'em?

Ah! I've got it....you get 'em to swallow a ramrod and pop em on a loooooong fire...

Auld Pelty
02-20-2009, 08:02 PM
You're damn straight Chris. We gonna have big fun on the bayou.

And I don't pretend to know what William said, but if you like frog legs, then you'll love rattlesnakes. That is only kind of snake I will eat.

Dale Beasley
02-20-2009, 11:23 PM
Oh how, I wish I could help you guys do a real Louisiana impression. However, as my Unit is back on the list to deploy, and how I have to be in MA to train with the Modern Army during the time of this event, I can only wish you all the best, and have fun. I will be back soon and show you guys how to do is right.

Old Reb
02-21-2009, 08:19 PM
The three companies represented are from north central Louisiana and that area is and was largely Anglo/Protestant.

biddler165
02-21-2009, 09:59 PM
Tom,
Since I am Italian / Catholic, am I still permitted to attend?

Old Reb
02-21-2009, 10:36 PM
Rick,
I said largely! That would not exclude an Italian Catholic from attending. I just don't want people confusing north Louisiana with south Louisiana and hearing a bunch of phony Cajun accents. Real Cajun accents are good. Fake ones aren't. Louisiana regiments were probably the most diverse ethincally in the South. But again, the 28th Louisiana was from north central Louisiana, not south Louisiana.

Dale Beasley
02-21-2009, 11:16 PM
Tom your right,

The 16th LA INF, pretty much proves that theory to a degree. However, our roster pretty much now tells the time of the period. I am half Catholic and Methodist. But I bet everyone in Louisiana can cook a gumbo, or at least drinks wine!

Again, wish I could be there... hope you guys have a great time. Will be in MA thinking about you all.

biddler165
02-22-2009, 01:18 AM
Tom,
I should have known. Where does LA get the term Parish from, except from the Catholic Church. I am glad that I will be portraying an LA regiment, because I don't smile upon temperance. Remember the Brown Jug from Liendo?

Old Reb
02-22-2009, 09:19 AM
Another thing for would be pretenders. French Creole and French Cajun aren't the same! There were French folks in Louisiana before the newcomers(Cajuns) arrived from Canada. What else would explain the late comers getting stuck in the swamps!

KarinTimour
02-22-2009, 09:33 AM
In the service of promoting more firper opportunities. The answers to some of these questions will give any soldier tons of stuff to gripe about (that is if you want to take the carping to the next level):

1. Who was the Governor?

2. If someone lived in a parish, but not in a town, who was law enforcement? Sheriff? Home Guard? Did the Home Guard only deal with military problems (like deserters) or did they deal with theft, runaway slaves, domestic disputes?

3. Who was the head of local government outside towns in North Central Louisiana? Was there a parish council?

4. Who registered people for the draft? When did they/would they draft people?

5. What parts of Louisiana were occupied at this point? New Orleans was, but how far up the river did the Yankees
"control?" My understanding (not great) is that they were primarily clustered around the Mississippi, that the farther away from the river you were, the less likely that the locals would have had to contend with the Yankee hordes. Were the slaves at home getting restless or running off?

6. What would have been the local newspapers? What was the largest local paper? I'm only thinking of the Picayune, but that's New Orleans.

7. Were they getting word from home? How did letters reach them? Who had been home recently? Any recent people returning from sick leave or furloughs who might have brought word of what was up at home?

8. What are you mostly worried about for your home folks? The Confederate Army impressing their only mule? Being unable to get the ploughing done? Slaves running off?

9. Who collected taxes, and when did they do it?

Hope that's helpful,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

KarinTimour
02-22-2009, 10:33 AM
With a little more thought it occurred to me that the organizers probably have more than enough to do at this point, I thought I'd see what I could find that might spark some conversations:

1. Louisiana in March, 1864 has both a US Governor and representatives, and a Confederate Governor and representatives.

2. The new US Governor (elected in Feburary, 1864) is working to give the vote to black people.

Governor George Micheal Hahn was born in Bavaria but immigrated with his family through New York and Texas to New Orleans in 1840. He was the US representative to Congress from the second Congressional District in 1862, which I think means he was the official US representative for North Louisiana. The 1st Congressional District (in 1864 Louisiana had only two) was represented by Rep. Benjamin Franklin Flanders, who was born in Bristol, New Hampshire. Since the modern 1st Congressional District is close to New Orleans, I suspect that the 1863 one was as well.

Governor Hahn, is a newspaper owner, having bought the New Orleans Times Delta, which had been a pro-slavery paper and converted it to being a "moderate Unionist paper." He was elected with 54% of the vote.

3. By November, 1863 the Confederate capital has been moved to Shreveport. The Confederate Governor, Thomas Overton Moore, born in Virginia and a cotton planter, has stepped down in favor of the new Confederate Governor. Henry Watkins Allen, the new Confederate Governor was born in North Carolina, is a sugar planter and Confederate veteran. He quickly reorganizes the government stores, and factories, and starts to sell goods and food at cost to civilians, which prevents widespread starvation in West and North Louisiana. He also organizes a cotton card factory, and is selling cotton through Texas and Mexico.

Small digression for those of you not familiar with cotton cards: These are small hand tools used to prepare cotton for spinning. They are composted of two boards about 8 x 5 inches in size. Each board has a handle, and on one surface is covered with tiny wires, about 1/4 inch in length. Someone prepares cotton for spinning by carefully placing a small handful of cotton all along the teeth of one card, then drawing the other card over it. This pulls the cotton apart into fibers, and is crucial to prepare it for spinning. Cotton cards were mostly manufactured in the North before the war, and the blockade was very successful in keeping them from the Confederacy, and thus hindering most efforts to spin cotton into thread. The fact that he established a factory to make cotton cards is an indication that this was a good governor.


I'd recommend spending half an hour or so on the Encyclopedia of Louisaiana timeline. It's Lousiana History by month and year, and there are amazing nuggets of gold to be found with very little reading.

My links never work, but try this: www.enclou.com/timeline

Or do a search for "Encyclopedia of Lousiana timeline"

It also includes small bits of world events as well, for the Europeans who are preparing for this event.


Hope that's helpful,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

Mcouioui
02-22-2009, 05:48 PM
Another thing for would be pretenders. French Creole and French Cajun aren't the same! There were French folks in Louisiana before the newcomers(Cajuns) arrived from Canada. What else would explain the late comers getting stuck in the swamps!

Right my friend;)


As says the companion Rougeaud,
The Louisiana belonged has France of 1699 has 1803 year has which Napoleon bonaparte sold in United States :cry_smile, she was baptized Louisiana (Louisiane) in honour of king Louis XIV.
There was thus indeed of French in Louisiana before Acadians, Cajuns and the Creoles, the French of France :D

But, for the Bayou Yéti, it is not us, he was in Louisiana before French :tounge_sm:D:rolleyes:

Dan Hadley
02-23-2009, 02:29 AM
Karin, thanks for the info. Your comment about a paper closer to the region we're portraying prompted a little looking around, and I found this in The Louisiana Historical Quarterly, from January 1920 (Vol. 3, No. 1):

"The first newspaper printed in Natchitoches was in French and Spanish. In 1860 The Natchitoches Union was published in French and English by Ernest le Gendre. At his death in 1862, Louis Duplex took charge and ran it till 1872. The Federals took possession in 1864, and issued the paper after Banks' defeat and retreat... On April 5, 1864, The Daily Union was issued from the Government Office."

KarinTimour
02-23-2009, 07:02 AM
Dear Dan:

Thanks! It's interesting how the languages of the paper changed over time -- clearly it was moving with it's market. If you print a newspaper that fewer people can read, fewer will buy it.

I'll see whatelse I can find that might spark some conversations in the brief respites between the attacks of the Hawkeyes and the Yeti.

Sincerely,
Karin Timour
Period Knitting -- Socks, Sleeping Hats, Balaclavas
Atlantic Guard Soldiers' Aid Society
Email: Ktimour@aol.com

Dan Hadley
02-23-2009, 08:55 AM
Tom had mentioned the early French presence of the region, but predominately Anglo later on. It seems that there must have been quite a contrast between the poorer, rural dwellers of the piney woods and the more refined citizens of towns like Natchitoches, as described in period accounts.

I recall reading this from the BGR days, but worthy of referencing again is Ms. Vicki Betts' fantastic article, "Civilian Reaction To The Red River Campaign, 1864, From Natchitoches To Mansfield, Louisiana", an excerpt posted below. A reference to the 24th Iowa included also.

And I've got to say, what red-blooded southern soldier wouldn't be spurred into action to defend the honor of a fetching gal like Mdm. Elizabeth Greening DuBois, wife of Capt. S. P. DuBois, Consolidated Crescent Regiment!

"On April 2, 1864, the first of 36,000 federal troops under General Nathaniel Banks entered Natchitoches, Louisiana, "with music and unfurled colors" as they marched from occupied Alexandria toward certain victory in Shreveport and East Texas. At that time Natchitoches boasted a population of about 2,000 persons, over half of them of French descent. Harris Beecher, of the 114th New York described the town as "a quiet resort of wealth and refinement. With the exception of Franklin, Natchitoches probably is the most beautiful inland town of the State. Although its buildings are of an antique architecture, yet they bear an air of neatness and elegance. Unlike most southern villages, the houses are all painted, and have green blinds. Most of the people live in second stories, from which are constructed airy balconies and bow windows. . . . The inhabitants were well dressed and intelligent, very sociable with the Yankee invaders, and apparently not at all terrified or dissatisfied with the occupation of the town by northern 'mudsills.' Among young soldiers, the most observable feature of the place was the beauty of its women." Orton S. Clark of the 116th New York reported that "Among the inhabitants, most of whom were French, there seemed less of that antipathy which we had always seen manifested in other places, and the women, we were foolish enough to think, showed evident signs of pleasure at our arrival. All later was explained as only their joy that we were being so easily led on to certain disaster." The Natchitoches Union, whose presses were immediately seized by the 13th Corps, printed at least three issues (April 1, 2, 4). In one of these they offered an amusing article in which the "thawing" of the local population was described, from the first hour, when nothing but closed shutters greeted the invaders, to a few hours later when young ladies would stand at their gates and talk to the troops as they passed.

Despite orders to the contrary, some of the federals "foraged considerably" in the area. Perhaps as an example, the provost marshal picked up six of the offenders, punished them "severely," and "turned them over to Col. [George L.] Beal for court martial, which was done." However, on at least one occasion, it was the local citizenry who disciplined the bluecoats. On Saturday, April 2nd, three men of Co. I, 24th Iowa Infantry went out foraging at a nearby plantation. Three armed men (no uniforms mentioned) demanded that they surrender. The federals were taken two miles away and tied up. One escaped, the second was shot and killed, and the third was knocked in the head with the butt of a gun but later made it back into camp and reported the incident. General Thomas E. G. Ransom sent the rest of Co. I out the next day with orders to burn everything at the plantation which was of no use to the quartermaster department, and those orders were carried out "with exceeding cheerfulness." This was one of only two accounts of the federals burning civilian property before the retreat following the battles of Mansfield and Pleasant Hill--all burning prior to this point was conducted by Confederate troops destroying cotton sheds to deprive the federals of one of the supposed main objectives of the military campaign.

The old stage road from Natchitoches to Pleasant Hill lead through "piney woods", forests of huge original pines and a "thick, matted growth of underbrush." The land was described as "sandy, clayey, deserted," "this land of gloom," and "little more than a great masked battery." Everything that the federal army needed had to be brought with them. As one Yankee officer put it, "Such a thing as subsisting an army in a country like this could only be achieved when men and horses
could be induced to live on pine trees and rosin." The men passed only a few small clearings in which they found "the meanest construction of log and mud houses," houses "merely built in clearings, of pine logs thatched and plastered with mud." "The
houses are very poor, much like our barns and hog pens. The chimnies [sic] are built of sticks and wood. Indians seem to form quiet [sic] a proportion of the settlers", according to Elias Pellet of the 114th New York. The men also found a Confederate camp of instruction consisting of about six rough barracks over which hung a sign proclaiming it "CamP Bou re gard." The name "soon disappeared, as did also a good portion of the buildings."

ButtermilkRanger
02-26-2009, 10:18 AM
Dan,

Good information and thanks for posting. I also agree with your earlier post about mispronouncing words and fake accents. A huge pet peeve of mine are fake accents. Just talk the way you'd normally talk. If you get the pronunciation right, then the accents won't matter nearly as much. Louisiana, like anywhere else, was a state of immigrants in the 19th century and there were a multitude of accents.

I'm a native Louisianian and my ancestors homesteaded here when we were still a Spanish territory. My Choctaw ancestors allowed the Spanish to call it "their" territory. One thing I have learned is that we seldom pronounce anything in this state the way it is spelled. If anyone has any more questions about how something is pronounced, the PLEASE post it and lets see if we can figure it out.

By the way, NEVER pronounce the Queen City of the South New Or-LEENS. Nothing will peg you as an intruder quicker.

Dan Hadley
02-26-2009, 08:50 PM
I'm not a Mason, but for any of you that are, I came across some great info on the web site of the Eastern Star Lodge No. 151, Winnfield, LA. A great history of the Lodge, formed in 1857. William Walker, who would later serve as Lieut. Col. of the 28th and fall at Mansfield, was a charter member, and other members served in the 28th as well:


"Eastern Star Lodge No. 151, F. & A. M. was "born" sometime in 1857 when a group of Masons living in Winnfield, Louisiana applied to Grand Master W. W. Perkins seeking a dispensation to form a new Lodge. A dispensation was granted September 5, 1857 and the three principal officers were appointed, namely, Golden W. Hicks, Worshipful Master, William Walker, Senior Warden, and Asa Emanuel, Junior Warden. The first official meeting held, under dispensation, was September 24, 1857.

On February 10, 1858, Anno Domini, and of Masonry, 5858, Most Worshipful Grand Master Amos Adams affixed his signature and grand seal, officially chartering Eastern Star Lodge No. 151, F. & A. M., Winnfield, Louisiana. In spite of the many moves by the Lodge and at least two fires, the original by-laws adopted on February 10, 1858 have been preserved, as well as the minutes of the Lodge. These are the second oldest complete set of written ecords known to exist in Winn Parish, save those of Hebron Baptist Church, east of Sikes, Louisiana.

The eighteen charter members, listed in the order they appear on the official charter were:Philip Bernstein, Q. A. Hargis, R. C. Sims, James Brock, G. W. Hicks, J. W. Stovall, Samuel Earnest, William Luckey, William Stone, E. W. Edwards, John A. Mathis, Benjamin J. Ussery, Asa Emanuel, Charles B. Parsons, Jesse Womack, Joseph J. Green, Samuel W. Rogers, and William Walker. These men were early parish leaders. Emanuel was Winn's first sheriff. William Walker succeeded Emanuel in that same office and was later Lieutenant Colonel William Walker of the 28th Louisiana Infantry and was killed at the Battle of Mansfield, 1864. E. W. Edwards and Jesse Womack were also early parish officials.

Lodge minute entries indicate that several other early members of the Lodge died during the War For Southern Independence:

"3-3-1863....met to pay last respect to departed Brother Benjamin Ussery...who died in service of his country at Vicksburg, Mississippi,

6-28-1863...1st Lt., Co. K, 28th Regiment, Louisiana Volunteers, Brother William P. Edwards was killed at the Battle of Bisland,

8-8-1863...Brother Thos. J. Teddlie...12th Regiment, served until health failed...reentered the 3rd Regiment....wounded in the foot by a shell at Vicksburg....which caused his death."

Other known members of the Lodge who lost their life during the same war were:

J. L. Bridges
John Womack
Solomon Collins
Oliver G. Rogers


And, possibly, but not certain, these bretheren:

James Brock, James P. Banks, William Griffin, E. W. Teddlie, James Gray, and A. E. Lard.And, Brother John S. Deen (Dean) died near Canton, Mississippi while visiting with his sons who were in the Confederate Army.

The Lodge has met in a number of places, but it is believed that it was organized in a second floor bedroom at the home of Sheriff Asa Emanuel. Sheriff Emanuel's home was situated at what is now the northeast corner of the Lafayette & Beville Streets intersection, where the Winn State Bank, now Sabine State Bank, is located. Around 1861, a two-story building on South Jones Street, near where present day Courthouse Pharmacy stands, and the Lodge met on the second floor until the 1890s. It was then that the Lodge moved to the second floor of the Heard hardware building, on Abel Street, east of the courthouse. Rent to Mr. Heard was $ 3 monthly."

Dan Hadley

Dan Hadley
03-02-2009, 04:23 PM
"...One thing I have learned is that we seldom pronounce anything in this state the way it is spelled. If anyone has any more questions about how something is pronounced, the PLEASE post it and lets see if we can figure it out."

Thanks Larry. Hey, how about the pronunciation of Bayou Boeuf, where Gov. Moore's (well, former Gov. Moore as of April 1864) plantation was located, and where the 28th Louisiana camped on March 9, 1864? Is it "buff", like a Frenchman would say?

Dan Hadley

ohpkirk
03-02-2009, 04:32 PM
I'd pronounce it with a long O as in 'own'....but then again I have a heavy north Texas accent and not a Louisianan one.

Old Reb
03-02-2009, 09:23 PM
Bayou Bo'f.

Dale Beasley
03-02-2009, 09:45 PM
Right my friend;)


As says the companion Rougeaud,
The Louisiana belonged has France of 1699 has 1803 year has which Napoleon bonaparte sold in United States :cry_smile, she was baptized Louisiana (Louisiane) in honour of king Louis XIV.
There was thus indeed of French in Louisiana before Acadians, Cajuns and the Creoles, the French of France :D

But, for the Bayou Yéti, it is not us, he was in Louisiana before French :tounge_sm:D:rolleyes:

William is very correct (Je temp mon sha)....we were French way before the Cajuns arrived. I myself would be considered a Creole (on mon mere side). Now the Cajuns are great people, taught us how to cook, and the Creole taught us how to boil delcreva (shrimp and crayfish) the French taught us to read and write and pray. I love them all. Viva la France, and Louisiana!

ohpkirk
03-02-2009, 09:51 PM
With the Nachitoches paper being printed in both French and Spanish prior to 1860, I am led to believe that there was a large Spanish speaking populace in the vicinity. Reason enough to speak it in the ranks.....any idea what vernacular was being used in Western Louisiana in the mid-19th century? Castilian?

PVT.THIB
03-02-2009, 10:38 PM
There is a huge Spanish influence just west of Natchitoches. In the 18th century, the Spanish had a fort, Los Adeas, only 14 miles west of present day Natchitoches. Most of the decendents of those people still live in the area of Zwolle and are a mix of Spanish and one of the Caddo nations of Indians. It would not have been uncommon to hear their particular dialect in and around Natchitoches Parish during the war. Would there have been Castilian Spanish? Most likely, but the Indian/Spanish influence on it would have been great. Hope this helps!

Old Reb
03-03-2009, 09:55 AM
A 5th great grandfather of my wife was garrisoned at Los Adeas in the mid 1750s. Since the Spanish were experts at classifying people by blood, he was listed as Castilian. So, he probably spoke Spanish with a Castilian accent. But, as other have written, there was a great mixing with the native population (Caddo), so what the offspring spoke is questionable. Los Adeas was closed when Spain acquired Louisiana. The people were sent back to San Antonio. They were later granted permission to migrate to Nachadoghes in Spain Texas. They instead crossed the Sabine back to their original homes. Traveling on I-49 headed toward Natchitoches, you will see a flat, marshy area. Back before the log jam was removed from the Red River, there was a shallow lake there known as Spanish Lake and near it was Spainish Town. It was along that lake and near Black Lake that the descendents of the Spainish eventually resettled. They were very clanish and marriage to outsiders was frowned upon. Many of the names were changed by Anglo census takers that assumed they were French and now have more of a French or Anglo pronunciation than Spainish.

ButtermilkRanger
03-03-2009, 01:23 PM
Thanks Larry. Hey, how about the pronunciation of Bayou Boeuf, where Gov. Moore's (well, former Gov. Moore as of April 1864) plantation was located, and where the 28th Louisiana camped on March 9, 1864? Is it "buff", like a Frenchman would say?

Dan Hadley



I'd agree with Tom that the pronunciation is Bo'f, or in some areas, depending on the accent, Boo-f. Just the word, Bayou, has different pronunciations in different parts of the state. Here in the eastern Florida parishes and much of the rest of the state, we call them By-YOUs, down in the marsh country along the coast they're likely to be called By-Ahs, and in some of the other areas, By-ohs.

One thing we're overlooking in this thread is that so much of our language down here is not so much heavily influenced by French or Spanish, but by native Indian languages. So many of our place names are actually Europeanized pronunciations (and spellings) of native words. Many of the larger tribes in Louisiana spoke dialects of the Muskogean language (Choctaw, Houma, Coushatta, etc.) and its reflected in the names of our towns, rivers, and parishes.

Of course, they are never pronounced like they're spelled, either. Anyone want to try to pronounce two of our local rivers, the Tangipahoa and the Tchefuncte? :)

Old Reb
03-03-2009, 02:34 PM
Atchafalaya and Calcasieu are two of my favorites for seperating the natives from the outsiders. Regardless, Louisiana is different in language, history, culture and geography.

boreguard
03-03-2009, 02:45 PM
Larry your responses to this post are very well written and accurate. Being from Louisiana I cringe when I hear old movies or someone try and portray a Louisianian.


For those who might have an interest, Camp Moore is the only preserved site dedicated to organizing, arming, and training troops in the Confederacy. The museum is well stocked with some great artifacts, some on loan from Confederate Memorial Hall, and the grounds & cemetery are still pretty much undisturbed. The web site address is
http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/c/o/cosby_w/

Y'all have fun at I.P.W.
Dennis neal

Dale Beasley
03-03-2009, 04:32 PM
Only an outsider would suck a crawfish head.

ButtermilkRanger
03-04-2009, 01:23 PM
Larry your responses to this post are very well written and accurate. Being from Louisiana I cringe when I hear old movies or someone try and portray a Louisianian.


For those who might have an interest, Camp Moore is the only preserved site dedicated to organizing, arming, and training troops in the Confederacy. The museum is well stocked with some great artifacts, some on loan from Confederate Memorial Hall, and the grounds & cemetery are still pretty much undisturbed. The web site address is
http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/c/o/cosby_w/

Y'all have fun at I.P.W.
Dennis neal

Dennis,

I agree that anyone who is making the drive to IPW from east to west across south Louisiana should take the time to visit Camp Moore. I think it rivals any museum in the state for quality artifacts and well worth the trip over. It's a small site, but dynamite comes in small packages. I feel honored to have such hallowed ground in my own back yard.

I likewise cringe at fake Louisiana accents. Why does everyone in New Orleans on TV always sound like they're from Charleston or Savannah? Anyone ever see Bellazar the Cajun? Horrible accents.

yipper
03-04-2009, 03:48 PM
Gents,

In Rapides Parish, where Bayou Beouf heads up, it is pronounced "beff", or at least it is pronounced that way today. In Saint Landry Parish, where the Boeuf joins the Cocodrie to form the Courtableau, it is pronounced "buff".

But how it would be pronounced by some cracker from Winn Parish back in the day is something else again...

regards,

geoffrey lehmann

Kiev Thomason
03-04-2009, 04:20 PM
Blimey Fergus....eating snakes? How do ya cook 'em?

Ah! I've got it....you get 'em to swallow a ramrod and pop em on a loooooong fire...A few years back we did an event in south GA and caught and cleaned a rather large Rattle snake. It was easy to clean and we cooked it up in some hot oil and added salt and pepper to taste and I will say...it was some of the best eating at an event I have ever had!

I will be federal for the event ...but you all have fun on the OTHER side.

Old Reb
03-04-2009, 05:12 PM
Indeed, the 28th was no doubt made up of crackers of the best sort with Winn Parish being the cracker box. As for pronunciation schooling, it just can't be done typing, but only with hearing.

Miss Elodie
03-04-2009, 05:49 PM
I'm jumping into this because I've spent lots of time informally studying the demographics of antebellum Louisiana. Regarding the accents of those portraying Louisiana soldiers-- chances are that you or your parents were from another part of the South or even "up nawth" and the accent would have developed accordingly.

By the 1830s there were growing pockets of "American" settlers in most of the areas that were ethnically French or Acadian--but they had been born elsewhere, particularly in Mississipi or the Carolinas, even Massachusetts and Connecticut. Anglo-dominated Northern Louisiana was much like Mississippi, East Texas, and southern Arkansas and, in the Piney Woods, was quite isolated and poor. They all were a large part of the Louisiana military. Also keep in mind that a significant number of Acadians chose to not join the army until forced conscription--many then either disappeared into the swamps or soon deserted (this isn't a snub, I'm directly descended from Acadians who joined up and those who didn't) and so even the South Louisiana units had significant numbers of "Americans" in the ranks.

Conversely, many different European ethnic groups who migrated to Louisiana in the late 18th and early 19th century, namely the Germans of St. Charles Parish, the "Foreign French"--recent arrivals from France, and several Iberian groups such as the Islenos of Assumption Parish tended to intermarry and assimilate into the non-American parts of the population. They fought too, but many would have spoken Louisiana French as well as their own language. Your best bet: unless you’re really comfortable with one of the “foreign” accents, is to be a regular Southern boy, albeit one with a taste for rice and brown gravy.

CSchneider
03-04-2009, 07:13 PM
My results were similar to Jennifer's when looking at the Winn Parish census records. In 1860, less than 50% of the population had been born in Louisiana, and most of those were children. The majority of the adults had been born in Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. A significant number also migrated from the Carolinas, Tennessee, Texas, Arkansas, and Virginia. Nearly every remaining state in the Union was represented in the parish, though in smaller numbers. There were a few French names in there, but not a ton. Aside from a few German and Irish families, virtually the whole parish was native born.

-Craig Schneider