Federal Impression

[Eric Tipton]

Bob:

Any word on which regiment the Federals will portray at the event? I checked the event web site and saw the info on the Confederates, but haven't seen any specifics on Federals. We are very interested in attending and like to put together information prior to the event for first person. Thanks!

[ohioyankee]

Assult on Allegheny is looking like a great event. I also plan to do federal. Any information on the regiment portrayed or first person information would be appreciated. Thank you.

[Duff]

Is there any news on this subject?

[BobDenton37thVA]

Eric, and all,

Scot Buffington has already suggested a target portrayal for the event. I'll have him post the information as soon as it is formalized.

Regards,
Bob D.

[Eric Tipton]

Excellent Bob. Thanks. Looking forward to the event.

[Duff]

I have done some reading on the Battle of Camp Allegheny, and the only Federal units that I have heard in any of the accounts are the 25th and 32nd Ohio, and the 9th and 13th Indiana. An OR from the Col. of the 25th can be found Here: http://www.wvculture.org/HiStory/civilwar/alleghenymountain03.html

The only unit I am familier with is the 9th. They were photographed later in the war, but because this event is still "Early War" those photographes are probably irrelevent.

[Duff]

Eric et al,

It was announced on the other forum that we will portray the 9th Indiana.

The discussion can be found here: http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14034

[paulcalloway]

That's good news Duff. I'm planning to come out and will see if I can get some of the GHTI to come as well. The Indiana connection is a great incentive.

[LibertyHallVols]

Question on the Federal Uniform Regs:
There is a lot of info on the site: http://pslcampaign.ning.com/page/assault-on-allegheny-federal-1

However, it is hard to discern what is "perferred" versus "accepted" or "allowed". For someone trying to meet the "ideal impression" for this event, what is the guidance/order of preference?

Of particular interest:
1) Coat (Sack, Frock, or Jacket?)
2) Hat (Cap or Hardee hat?)
3) Accoutrements - In particular, what sort of scabbard is preferred for the Enfield? "No Rivet" US or the Brit pattern?

Thanks!

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

I have done some reading on the Battle of Camp Allegheny, and the only Federal units that I have heard in any of the accounts are the 25th and 32nd Ohio, and the 9th and 13th Indiana.

I also have been doing extensive research more particularly on the Confederate impression, 31st Virginia Regiment. However, this event requires a general knowledge of the battles, regiments involved, land, etc.

You've forgotten the 2d Virginia Regiment which totally caught me off guard because a Wheeling, W.Va. soldier kept referring to its involved from the Federal point-of-view. Interestingly enough, two 2d Regiments of Virginia Infantry were at Allegheny Mountain, both in the in U.S. and C.S.A. armies and had engaged each other.

If you are portraying the 2d (U.S.), my source has said that they were well-uniformed.

Yours in friendly research,

[LibertyHallVols]

Bumping up my question. Thanks!

Question on the Federal Uniform Regs:
There is a lot of info on the site: http://pslcampaign.ning.com/page/assault-on-allegheny-federal-1

However, it is hard to discern what is "perferred" versus "accepted" or "allowed". For someone trying to meet the "ideal impression" for this event, what is the guidance/order of preference?

Of particular interest:
1) Coat (Sack, Frock, or Jacket?)
2) Hat (Cap or Hardee hat?)
3) Accoutrements - In particular, what sort of scabbard is preferred for the Enfield? "No Rivet" US or the Brit pattern?

Thanks!

[Shockoe Hill Cats]

For you Federals, there's a nice descriptive account by Indiana soldier, David Steveson, in Indiana's Roll of Honor on the action on Allegheny Mountain. I'd highly suggest taking the time to read it. The West Virginia Archives and History has it posted here:

http://www.wvculture.org/history/civ...ountain04.html

Sláinte!

[Duff]

Question on the Federal Uniform Regs:
There is a lot of info on the site: http://pslcampaign.ning.com/page/assault-on-allegheny-federal-1

However, it is hard to discern what is "perferred" versus "accepted" or "allowed". For someone trying to meet the "ideal impression" for this event, what is the guidance/order of preference?

Of particular interest:
1) Coat (Sack, Frock, or Jacket?)
2) Hat (Cap or Hardee hat?)
3) Accoutrements - In particular, what sort of scabbard is preferred for the Enfield? "No Rivet" US or the Brit pattern?

Thanks!

I would like to know the answer to this as well. Re-bump.

[paulcalloway]

Unfortunately the communication just hasn't been there for this event. I've reconsidered.

[Pvt Schnapps]

There's a photograph of soldiers of the 12th Indiana in 1861 at:

http://images.indianahistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2Fdc008&CISOPTR=190&DMSCALE=50.00000&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=0&DMOLDSCALE=4.07056&DMX=0&DMY=0&DMTEXT=&DMTHUMB=1&REC=17&DMROTATE=0&x=40&y=51

This shows the men in both frocks and sack coats with light blue trousers.

There's an illustration of the 9th Indiana a year later at:

http://images.indianahistory.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2Fdc008&CISOPTR=170&DMSCALE=25&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=0&DMX=97&DMY=23&DMTEXT=&DMTHUMB=1&REC=5&DMROTATE=0&x=466&y=309

This shows the men in sack coats with pale trousers.

My reading of the event regs -- which appear to cobble together advice from a couple of sources, which might explain the confusion -- indicates that the organizers prefer sack coats, will accept frock coats or state jackets but not later U.S. uniform jackets, want light blue trousers on the enlisted men, and either forage caps or slouch hats (uniform or civilian, the latter preferably black).

That mix would seem appropriate and easy enough to figure out. The only thing I would take exception to is the preference for issue shirts since I don't believe the government was able to get enough of these out in '61 to meet the demand. But that's just my opinion.

What is it that folks find confusing?

[Wild Rover]

Hey all,

Was just advised that some of you might have some questions regarding the Federals for AoA.

If I can help out at all, drop me a line at ltcolcsa@hotmail.com or just PM me here, or post questions and I will do my best to answer them for you.

Pards,

[PogueMahone]

My reading of the event regs -- which appear to cobble together advice from a couple of sources, which might explain the confusion -- indicates that the organizers prefer sack coats, will accept frock coats or state jackets but not later U.S. uniform jackets, want light blue trousers on the enlisted men, and either forage caps or slouch hats (uniform or civilian, the latter preferably black).

That mix would seem appropriate and easy enough to figure out. The only thing I would take exception to is the preference for issue shirts since I don't believe the government was able to get enough of these out in '61 to meet the demand. But that's just my opinion.

What is it that folks find confusing?

Michael,

Where do you see anything like a preference stated by the organizers on the website? I see a list of generic uniform pieces that only reflect what possible articles might be worn. It reads more like my closet inventory than researched uniform guidelines.

It isn't a matter of confusion, it is a matter of communication from the event organizer. And, not to put words into Paul, John or Eric's collective mouths, it is another example of "less than" what is expected of an event being promoted on the AC forums, IMHO.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Joe, I just think it's a bogus issue. If all those items were worn historically, then what does "preference" have to do with it?

Maybe the preference is for folks to show up and march seven and a half miles in the mountains and make their fashion statements at some other event.

I don't want to put words in the organizers' mouths, but maybe their idea of communications runs along the lines of the info Denton posted last week rather than monitoring AC forum posts to see who's confused about couture.

If I seem a tad nonplussed by the line of inquiry, chalk it up to the fact that the questions are coming from folks who aren't registered in any case.

I mean, WTF, if folks are going to hold off till three weeks before the event to register because they can't decide what to wear, who really cares?

No offense, guys, just saying. Now that Chris has checked in maybe he can say something more mollifying.

[LibertyHallVols]

Schnapps,

Since I posted the origina question, I'll chime in. I've been to campaign events before, as you know. So, I know to be prepared for physical exertion, to be hydrated, I know how to get to the event site, etc. However, I do have a couple of options in the closet when it comes to coats, hats, muskets, etc. When I go to an event, I like to do my best to meet the event organizers' "vision" for the event. I want to come as close as I can to meeting the "ideal" impression for an event!

This being the case, I read through the regs for the event and couldn't tell what was "preferred" and what was "just OK" and what was "leave it at home".

I hear you and I agree that there are boat-loads of things to consider when preparing for any event. In many respects, "what to wear" is the least of the concerns.

However, to Joe's point, there were a couple of us here that had asked and hadn't heard back. The point of having an event folder here on the A-C is to provide a central point for those seeking and disseminating information. If folks are asking questions in the folder, but not hearing an answer, then what's the point of the folder?
(Joe - Please correct me if I've misstated your point)

Now, I did finally send a note to the Fed commander and got a realy good quick summary a couple days later. However, by that point, the registration deadline was upon me.

...Now, and I think this gets to Paul's point (and, Paul, please correct me if I'm wrong here), but...
There is concern about an event when communications seem to be a problem. When the registration deadline is nigh, yet questions remain, and there doesn't seem to be a hope of getting the questions answered before the deadline, folks start to make other plans. For me, a buddy of mine had backed out of the event (you know him... he's got a website), and a number of others were MIA upon being asked their status for the event (and they aren't on the registered list on the website). I think these concerns get amplified for folks who have to drive 10-12+ hours to the event (especially when that requires time away from work and family).

I don't want to start on of those famous on-line "wars" that drive wedges between folks. I didn't get into this hobby to lose friends and make enemies. However, I think there is a communication issue related to this event that could be improved upon in the future.

[LibertyHallVols]

I mean, WTF, if folks are going to hold off till three weeks before the event to register because they can't decide what to wear, who really cares?


Yeah, I hear ya! There are two groups of which I generally try to avoid making myself a part:
1) Last minute registerers - Pain in the butt, but shows up
2) Registered no-shows - Name is Mud (I avoid this at all costs, even if it means a late registration)

I have some family biz that made me hold off making a decision. It was AoA or the Iron Brigade at G-burg. Finally, I learned that G-burg lost.

So, its not about looking the coolest, just the sum of a lot of things taken together.

Thanks!

[PogueMahone]

John,

On point.

Michael,

What John said. Typically EBUFU events have some goal appearance for the uniforms based on research and this event was not specific or clear.

Why you are surprised to see such questions on the AC is beyond me.

[Pvt Schnapps]

I'm not at all surprised, Joe, just a little disappointed. Not much, just a little.

I've read a few things about the civil war that lead me to suspect that the occasions on which a "preference" is solidly justified by the historic record are relatively few. Clothing books, which should provide our best source, accounted for the value of clothing drawn, not the actual articles.

There's a wonderful account of the drawing of complete new sets of clothing in Lincoln's history of the 34th Massachusetts, for example, that completely passes by the matter of what sort of coats are involved. Red Tape and Pigeon Hole Generals (you can guess from the title how much I like this book) spends a couple of hundred pages writing about a regiment of 9 month volunteers and it's only when it gets to the "frock coat mutiny" at the end that the reader has any idea that they don't already have them.

The real issue is how well the organizers are monitoring the posts here and how quickly they're responding to them. Thanks for making that clear, John.

I would suggest that, in that case, it probably would have been far more productive for the moderators to e-mail the organizers directly with the concern, especially if they already see a lack of responsiveness to posts on this site. More especially if they feel it may affect the organizers' future ability to advertise events on this site.

See you all in the field. Somewhere, anyway :) -- please accept my apologies for my pique.