Canteen halves as fry pans, a reference.

[FloridaConscript]

Fellows,
I re read this last night and thought I would share. Nothing ground breaking, but always good to add further documentation to some things we do here as living historians. to quote:

"We were then told to rest, which of course, was very acceptable. Several of the boys had their frying-pans along, which was one side of a tin canteen. A canteen is made in the shape of two saucers, turned tops together. Then if they are put in a fire and unsoldered the sides make two very good little frying-pans, which are light and easy to carry along."
Dorman was writing about Reams Station when he mentioned this. I wonder if this is something the boys in the 10th came to independently, or if their friends in the 2nd, 5th, and 8th Florida showed it to them?

The following passage is from "Fifty years Ago" by George Dorman of the 10th Florida Infantry. It was a small pamphlet published in the early 20th C. when his son was running for some local office. Only a handful survive and Don Hillhouse was to get it re published in an Appendix to "Heavy Artillery and Light Infantry" a book Hillhouse authored about the 1st Fla. btln which ended up being the 10th Fl. Dorman was only in the ANV from May 24 1864 until Sept 25 1864, so it is a very concise time frame. (the 9th 10th and 11th arrived in time for Cold Harbor and Dorman was injured in September).

Not sure if the canteen was picked up at Olustee in February or was issued in Virginia.

[Silas]

The more time in the field, the more opportunities to experiment with field craft. Although the regiment was formed late, many members of the 10th and 11th had seen extensive service. We've portrayed the 2d Florida Batt'n which was folded into the 10th and 11th before Olustee. Several years ago, we did some research on Co. B of the 2d Batt'n which turned out to be an old men and boys outfit. My recollection was that this company was designated as being a partisan ranger company and was mounted during the first year of the war. Co. B was involved in the 1863 engagement at Ft. Brooks near Tampa.

I doubt many of the old guys fared well after being sent to the ANV and enduring the trench type warefare seen in the last ten months of the war. My recollection is that many arrived in Virginia, but many quickly went to hospital for reasons other than wounds.

[FloridaConscript]

Silas,
Indeed, the 9th 10th and 11th were JV for the most part, but the reorganization happened when they got VA. My G G grandfather was in a conscript company that got attached to the 6th Fl Btln (later 9th Florida). he fell out on a forced Marsh somewhere around Hatchers Run in Feb. of 65 and was captured in a Richmond hospital. He was mid 40s I think. hence the name, FloridaConscript. Not all of those boys served "for hearth and home", many went at the end of a bayonet.

[OldKingCrow]

My 2nd FL/ 10th FL INF ancestor was paroled at Appomattox.

[lojafan]

I found this interesting quote in Time Life's "Soldiers Life" page 98-99. The quote is from Lieutenant Albert T. Goodloe of the 35th Alabama infantry.

"Among our cooking utensils mention must be made of the frying pans that we made by bursting open Yankee canteens, which we would hold over the fire by slipping the edge of the half canteen into the split end of a stick, which served as a handle. These canteens were made of two concavo-convex tin plates, fastened together around their edges, and which could easily be blown open by putting a little powder in them and igniting it. We would only thus destroy the canteen as such when it began to leak, for we needed all the canteens we could get for carrying water and then we would use the side that did not leak for a frying pan."

[FlatLandFed]

While beginning research for Bummers, found this in "Private Elisha Stockwell Jr. Sees the Civil War" (14th Wisconsin veteran's memoirs written in late 1920s):

"Two men were detailed to go back in the rear, where the could get wood and water, to make coffee and boil the beef when we got beef, and bring it up to us at the front. But when on a march, each man had his coffee and a little pail made of an oyster can with a wire bail of our own make, to make coffee in, and half a canteen for a frying pan. At the front we couldn't have a fire, nor get water." (p 88)

He also talks about punching holes in a canteen half to use to grate corn for meal. Very similar to "Hardtack and Coffee" memories.

Ever forward,
Paul Hadley

[Rear Guard]

Any evidence that the canteen half also served as a substitute for the tin plate later in the war? It would be one less thing to carry and soldiers became very good at lightening their load.

[GermanDraftee]

My G G grandfather was in a conscript company that got attached to the 6th Fl Btln (later 9th Florida). he fell out on a forced Marsh somewhere around Hatchers Run in Feb. of 65 and was captured in a Richmond hospital. He was mid 40s I think. hence the name, FloridaConscript.

Interesting. My g-g grandfather was drafted in October of '64 and in February was with the 6th WI at Hatcher's Run. He was hospitalized after the battle, as well. (Severe frostbite from extended picket duty.) Hence the username GermanDraftee

Side note: His musket was in the family into the late 1950s. I have been told it was donated to a local vets organization for display. The musket and several other pieces were stolen in the 1960s.)

[azreb70]

As for the fry pans, are there any known that have iron handles?

[Tom Dodson]

Blocka// Run/// sells one that they claim was copied from a dug artifact? Fact or Fiction?
Tom Dodson

[Silas]

It's Blockade Runner. Could be truth. Could be falsehood. The story is good for their supposedly dug canteen half with a metal (probably iron) handle, but why would you want one? The supposed original from a Monteagle camp hadn't seen much use for a reason. Looks like a fragile item with unnecessary weight. A split stick or a rag would get the half off the fire just as well.

[Mutt]

I plan on throwin' my old leaky, rusty canteen into the fire this coming weekend! Always wanted to try it out; just couldn't let myself buy half a canteen, all shiny and new. Hopefully I'll remember to take some pics of the process or at least before and after shots.

Best,

[Tom Dodson]

Good point on Blockade Runner's Monteagle "skillet". What would be the point of making a canteen half as heavy as a regular skillet? It could have been made then just left in camp. As mentioned, I don't believe it would last long. :confused:
Tom Dodson

[Pvt Schnapps]

Here's the offending item:

http://www.blockaderunner.com/Catalog/catpg26.htm

Here's a little background on what a camp on Monteagle Mountain might have had to do with the war:

http://www.mountaingoattrail.org/monteagle-tdot-enhancement-grant.htm

"The Mountain Goat Railroad was constructed in 1853 as a rail spur from the Nashville & Chattanooga Railroad. The line was used to transport coal from coalmines in Tracy City through Monteagle and Sewanee and down to Cowan. The coalmining period of the rail line is an important part of the history of many families in Grundy County. The use of the railroad spur was discontinued in 1985 when the tracks were removed."

Here's a description of the action most likely to have ended the utility of said camp:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tullahoma_Campaign

So the real question becomes, not what makes most sense to reenactors with a campaign impression, but what might have made sense to a soldier garrisoned along a railroad in Tennessee for a stretch of several months in the winter and spring of 1863. Under those circumstances, replacing the third or fourth stick of wood he'd used as a handle for a frying pan (which Jonah kept using for tinder) with a more permanent solution attached with box nails might seem like a good idea. I wouldn't do it, but then I've never spent a few months in Monteagle Tennessee with little else to do but drill.

[Tom Dodson]

It does make perfect sense that such an item could have been constructed during a long, boring time in camp.
On a slightly different note, I was wondering about the stamped, lightweight skillets made by Bromwell. They were in business in the 1850's but don't know what products they could have been producing during the time frame of the War. Would there have been a chance that the said skillets, minus the addition of the aluminum cooling skin, could have been used?
I have heard it said that the only stupid question is one not asked. Maybe that still holds true.
Tom Dodson
47th Ga

[Silas]

double post

[Silas]

So the real question becomes, not what makes most sense to reenactors with a campaign impression, but what might have made sense to a soldier garrisoned along a railroad in Tennessee for a stretch of several months in the winter and spring of 1863. Under those circumstances, replacing the third or fourth stick of wood he'd used as a handle for a frying pan (which Jonah kept using for tinder) with a more permanent solution attached with box nails might seem like a good idea. I wouldn't do it, but then I've never spent a few months in Monteagle Tennessee with little else to do but drill.

That's what I was thinking, but did not state in my last post. I was thinking from a campaign viewpoint, not a true garrison situation. The item was likiely found in that camp because the owner or creator may not have wanted to carry it when ordered to move.



I plan on throwin' my old leaky, rusty canteen into the fire this coming weekend! Always wanted to try it out; just couldn't let myself buy half a canteen, all shiny and new. Hopefully I'll remember to take some pics of the process or at least before and after shots.

The half that I own is from an old canteen. I ceased using it a while back in favor of a tinned copper plate sold by BR.

The real reason for posting a reply was something I uncovered in google books while looking for something about exchanged prisoners. It concerns cavaleryman who lamented the loss of his canteen half :


I had come into prison, as did most other prisoners, absolutely destitute of dishes, or cooking utensils. The well-used, half-canteen frying-pan, the blackened quart cup, and the spoon, which formed the usual kitchen outfit of the cavalryman in the field, were in the haversack on my saddle, and were lost to me when I separated from my horse. Now, when we were told that we were to draw soup, I was in great danger of losing my ration from having no vessel in which to receive it. There were but few tin cups in the prison, and these were, of course, wanted by their owners. By great good fortune I found an empty fruit can, holding about a quart. I was also lucky enough to find a piece of wire from which to make a bail. I next manufactured a spoon and knife combined from a bit of hoop-iron.

From : p. 102 of McElroy, John, "Andersonville: A Story of Rebel Military Prisons, Fifteen Months a Guest of the So-called Southern Confederacy : a Private Soldier's Experience in Richmond, Andersonville, Savannah, Millen, Blackshear, and Florence"(1878) (http://books.google.com/books?id=Y4VUG0spmosC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&dq=prisoner+exchange+andersonville+savannah&source=bl&ots=EGLsiWaHKy&sig=13uPXfEZA1cma5I53Z5NjFRzLsw&hl=en&ei=y5rjSe3KN6HmlQfO8cHgDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6#PPA102,M1)

[Gallinipper]

Sadly I can't see the photo(s) of the "offending item" in question very well. So, the original owner supposedly performed an in-field modification to an existing half of a smoothside canteen, to make a skillet? The original utilized crate nails, but now the sutler is using rivets to attach the handle because his supply of those is "exhausted"?

Guess I'd better just buy three of those instead of four.....

(Incidentally, I always had pretty good results cooking with a bullseye half. Maybe it was the little gulleys channeling the grease.)

Rich Croxton

[Charles Heath]

(Incidentally, I always had pretty good results cooking with a bullseye half. Maybe it was the little gulleys channeling the grease.)

Rich, was that the Geo. Foreman Depot, Type Ia, field grill? :rolleyes:

[Parault]

Rich, was that the Geo. Foreman Depot, Type Ia, field grill? :rolleyes:

I want one.

[Gallinipper]

Charles, it was indeed. The side of that thing made a handy can opener too.

Rich Croxton

[Charles Heath]

Rich, at least you could figure out which one was yours. My favorite had the flat bottom thanks to using a stump and a log as anvil and hammer, so it not only cooked a little better, but was easy to identify even at night.

We hadn't popped open many canteens since the March 1997 Pamplin Park 155th NYVI living history, so last year at DM X in New Albany, PA, we called for rusty, leaking, canteens as part of the pre-event prep. Since we (well some of us) knew we had an active ford to improve and hold for a couple of hours, we had time to strip the canteens, melt the solder, and so forth. A good canteen provides two halves, but a leaky canteen provides but one, or sometimes none if both halves are perforated. It was nice to set up and revisit that common activity. We also made a green corn grater ahead of time, and that worked well for corn oyster production; although the boys who weren't in the bandaging station were pretty darn tired to fool with such nonsense by the end of that long day.

There is a very small pod of folks in California who still fool with the hobby, by the way. Just thought that worth mentioning.

[Gallinipper]

Chas, it's funny we never had occasion to talk about that- or maybe we did, and I'm just old- but I'd be interested in knowing how long it took you to get it/them apart. I take it you did not go the gunpowder route (which of course can get a fellow removed from an event, but not necessarily from an army....) But I saw a guy work most of the day on successfully melting one. Always wondered what had that particular one stuck together so well.

I reckon the green corn will send the boys to the bandaging station as quick as anything. :D

Rich Croxton

[Charles Heath]

"...but I'd be interested in knowing how long it took you to get it/them apart. I take it you did not go the gunpowder route (which of course can get a fellow removed from an event, but not necessarily from an army....) But I saw a guy work most of the day on successfully melting one. Always wondered what had that particular one stuck together so well.

Rich,

I do remember someone trying the gunpowder routine at some event in the distant past, but it wasn't any of the usual circle. A complete canteen yields a number of treasures from a bottle cork to cleaning swatches to repair patches.

Some of the modern repop halves have a 1/8" to 3/16" lip around the edge, and some canteens use one lipless and one lipped half, while other canteens have two lipped halves together. The latter models are hard to split apart, but a good rap with a stick or dropping them on the ground appears to help matters. I didn't watch the canteen firing detail all that closely, but they didn't appear to have many problems -- other than not keeping up with the white metal spouts, which would have been good repair material for a certain wooden canteen. Two nesting halves also make a fine coffee grinder or bake oven.


"I reckon the green corn will send the boys to the bandaging station as quick as anything."

Maybe Mistuh Sexton's bacon offering seemed to encourage sprinting with amazing vigor, rapidity, and promptitude amongst a certain set at one of those Yadkin River events many moons ago. That may have been the event with the skull on the fencepost allegedly to warn others away from said culinary surprises, too. Some period experiences were had.... :eek:

[Gallinipper]

Charles, I believe that beeve skull would have been from the "inaugural" NSR event at Cloyds Mountain, VA in 1997. No we did not eat that, but I'm not sure we would have been able to tell the difference anyway. I do recall Bro. Neal was instrumental in procuring some mighty fine bacon for the boys at the East Tennessee Campaign LH later that same year. (I've only heard horror stories about 125th Franklin, but that event was easily the coldest I ever experienced- was still not brave enough to seek shelter in a rat-infested barn with the likes of Messrs. Brewster, our "prisoner", and Cecil, however.)

Rich Croxton

[Charles Heath]

Rich,

At one time, photographic images of that skull appeared in about as many places as the rumors of NBF's skull being stolen...found...stolen...stolen again!

Too funny.

[Gallinipper]

Old Forrest's skull, and even worse, they bought it, didn't they? I miss you, old friend. I truly do..... This place might as well be China.

Rich Croxton

[PogueMahone]

Jeez, guys, get a room already! I keep looking for updated information to this topic and I find you two waxing nostalgic ...

Wax on, wax off,

[Charles Heath]

I keep looking for updated information to this topic and I find you two waxing nostalgic ...

...and this is coming from one of Mother Hudson's Bas....nevermind. :rolleyes:

Okay, the funny thing is (realizing this is not an opinion based thread) canteen halves are quite possibly over represented and just flat out incorrect in certain circumstances. Certain fort events (not the stickfort variety), training camps, and even civilian events don't lend themselves well to this sort of mess furniture. Just a thought.

[PogueMahone]

I've been to some "fort" events where the only mess gear a soldier needed was a plate, cup and utensils. Officers also needed a tumbler.

Context is everything.

[Gallinipper]

Joe, I guess it's safe to assume you never did a Ft. Macon event? There were tumblers there, just not of the ossifer variety.

Speaking of context, now I'm wondering how many Confederates burned up their wood canteens trying to cook in them prior to the battle of 1st Manassas....

Rich Croxton

[PogueMahone]

Rich,

I think you may have just given me an idea for a practical joke ...

[Gallinipper]

Hey now, I don't need any more visits from overzealous "esquires" who purport to represent injured parties, pard....... Whatever it is, please leave my name out of it!

Rich Croxton

[LeatherHead]

In the CW Centennial days, brand new Spanish American War canteens (many converted from CW smooth-body canteens), with cover, stopper and chain were commonly available from the dealers for 50 cents (leather slings 75 cents additional.) Bannermans was the mother lode wholesale source. I bought one just as a hiking-in-the-woods canteen. One night I filled it with water, corked it tightly and stuck it in the freezer to have ice water for the next morning's jaunt.

The soldered seams perfectly and uniformly burst; the halves remained encased by the layer of insulating cloth and cover. One half was given to a Bud and the other has served faithfully as a fryer/plate off-and-on for 40 some years.....A collector friend has a few dug-up canteen halves with wire set into holes punched where the spout neck used to be; presumably the wire helped secure the half on the split end of a stick handle. I wired my "surprise" canteen half and that no doubt has reduced the number of times it fell off the handle, dumping the meal into the embers.

So, the expansive qualities of water transforming into solid ice is one approach to the conversion of canteens into cooking and eating implements.

Yours in the hobby.

Dean Nelson
1st Maryland infantry, CSA, N-SSA

[R.J.F.]

Gentlmen, I found a sure fire way to use a canteen half as a frying pan was to punch a hole with your bayonet from one side to the other so the bayonet goes from edge to edge right down the center of the circle,with the tip barely sticking out the far side.This secures the bayonet to both ends and gives you a more stable hold on the weight of the items your cooking and you don't need a frying pan with a handle to carry on your march.When your done you wipe off the bayonet ,put it back in your scabbard and put your canteen half back in your haversack...give it a try.

Rob Freund
52nd NYSV
137th NYSV
4th VA.

[Charles Heath]

....A collector friend has a few dug-up canteen halves with wire set into holes punched where the spout neck used to be; presumably the wire helped secure the half on the split end of a stick handle.

Dean,

Is there any chance you could share some photographs of those wired canteen halves? If so, that would be wonderful, and maybe end some arguments while creating others. :rolleyes:

[LeatherHead]

Taking pictures of the dug-up wired canteen halves has been on the to-do list for probably 15 years, and its probably time to really do it.

Step 1 is to have my buddy 2 1/2 hours away re-locate them (easier asked than achieved.)
Step 2 is the jpeg photography; no problemo.
Step 3 is the posting on AC; might be a bit of a struggle. I once looked at posting instructions and concluded I might not be clever enough to make it so.

The dug wired halves were scored at the Gettysburg Relic Show ca. 1990. I did not even have enough $$ for gas to get home so I convinced my compatriot to get them both in protective custody in a good home....

Dean Nelson
1st Maryland Infantry, CSA, N-SSA

[Moonshine]

After reading these, I endeavored to "fix" the huge dent I had in my canteen 1/2 by flattening it out with a heavy ball peen hammer and the help of a flat surface and last, a vice.

In a matter of minutes, I had the shape of a skillet. With more time and banging, I might be able to make it completely flat with no creases.

Anyway, just wanted to share what can happen if you have a little time, a good tool and some creativeness.

[Mutt]

Forgot to update on my "Making one canteen two frying pans". It was a total success that took about 10 -15mins (maybe) over HOT coals. The spout melted real quick into a "pewtery" puddle in the fire. After the aforementioned time, I took it out with a stick and gave it a drop, bingo, two halves. Easy as pie. Didn't have much time to scour the rust off a the event but have since at home with elbow grease, some steel wool and Bon Ami. Probably went over-board as I much prefer doing these things in the field using authentic methods.

Anyway, there it is. Can post pics if anyone cares to see em.

Best,

[Alexandra Swiney]

I hope they're propping up that BR iron handle (or cooking cannister rounds) because the weight of the handle upsets the balance of the pan. Anyway, men in camp for a while with access to a cavalry or artillery forge could easily make a serviceable handle out of an old horseshoe, and then throw it away when they had to march off. I forged one when my wooden one got burned up, and it was really easy.

Sandy Newburn

[Thomas Alleman]

We had at Perryville on year a pard with a canteen with holes in it and he was going to throw it away so instead we threw it in the fire and two canteen halves were born, I have one. One day I will sell it as a original canteen half, not from the civil war but made on a civil war battlefield that is close enough for me. It looks authentic because it was a rusty canteen with holes in it and it worked great. Grease spills out the small holes and stokes the fire. It is all banged up, I would never sell it, thanks Mike. When I get a pic I will post it.

[Charles Heath]

I forged one when my wooden one got burned up, and it was really easy.

I regret to say I never developed the skill to cook bacon in a wooden canteen half. :)

[Pvt_Sullivan]

I regret to say I never developed the skill to cook bacon in a wooden canteen half. :)

It is all about the slow heat Charles... skim, simmer and scour I read some where...

[boreguard]

Lords encyclopedia of relics has pics of several surviving examples of canteen halves, and several that had wooden barrell bands (from small barrels about 10 gal.) attached to them for handles. I copied one years ago and wouldn't dream of hitting the field without it. I flattened out the band, it'll have a slight curve to it. I attached it to the canteen halve with two rose head nails as rivets. It's light, easy to carry in the fold of both Confederate and Federal knapsack. I bent the band on the end opposite of the canteen halve and it stabilizes the pan rather than make it off balance, the bent part acts sort of like a leg. I'll post pics later.

[Faugh a Ballagh]

I've been working my way backwards through the 77 pages of threads and just replied to an older one, but this seems to answer part of my question. I have one, to which I attached a wire loop which serves to hang it from the spout of my canteen, where it is held close by the strap, and makes a good point to hook the flat of a bayonet through to maneuver it to and from the fire. I Had been searching for documentation for this method of carrying, as I have not seen any photos of this arrangement.

Cheers,

Stephen Adler
Co. I, 116th PA, Irish Brigade - National Regiment