Cartridge Box question

[Matt Caldwell]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2232155852&category=36041

Anyone know anything about this? the guy is selling it as a repro, but the price has gone through the roof. I am not totally up on boxes, and can honestly say that I havn't seen one like this. Have a look and if you can give some info, it would be appreciate.

[justthemiller]

That seems to be a bit of money for a reproduction Manns patent cartridge box. Since I do not know of anyone making this type of cartridge box I would be curious as to who would possibly be the maker of this product.

[Possum Skinner]

This one was brought up elsewhere Yesterday. It is a reproduction of a 1st Pattern Mann's Patent Box.

Here is a link to a real one.

Mann's Patent Box (http://www.shilohrelics.com/shop/custom_show_images.asp?SKU=SR10184)

I am not very hip on much Federal Gear, and I'm not claiming much knowledge on this one.

I guess a good question would be who used these and when?

[JerseySkilletLicker]

The 15th NJ was the most noteable of units that used this box.

[DRCubby]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2232155852&category=36041

Anyone know anything about this? the guy is selling it as a repro, but the price has gone through the roof. I am not totally up on boxes, and can honestly say that I havn't seen one like this. Have a look and if you can give some info, it would be appreciate.


The Manns boxes were first issued to the 15th NJ on April 26, 1864. The object of the boxes were to have a 40 round box slung on the front of the body, counterbalancing a patent Mann's knapsack that would attach to those hooks seen in the photo. The knapsacks never made it to the regiment, however, because the quartermaster screwed up and sent them to New Orleans, were they promptly found the bottom of the Mississippi River, since there was no other use for them without the rest of the rig. The boxes were issued for a special trial, the 15th being selected because Col. Mann, the designer of the rig, was a good friend of the regiments commander, William Penrose. They were also issued to a few other regiments, none of which I can remember the name of, but I know one was a heavy artillery unit, and an original set credited to that regiment is on display in the museum at Pamplin Park. Penrose later reported that "they (the men of the regiment) would rather carry 100 roundsin that way (the mans box) than forty in the old." He also added "these accoutrements are scattered through the division (1st Div. 6th Corps)-men threw away the old and took them from the dead and wounded on the field. This one thing speaks more for them than I can say." As for when their usable, you can use them for any 15th NJ impression after April 26, 1864 or in limited use for later war 1st Div 6th Corp. There were other units issued Manns, but I can't remember which ones. Can't help you with that.

The thing thats odd about that box is that its of a first pattern issue. I'd like to know where he got a pattern from, because no first issue boxs are known to exist, at least by my knowledge, but I'm no collector.

Dave Cubby
15th NJV

[PieBoy96]

I believe I read one time that this box was issued to the entire 6th Corps, and as a previous post says, in early/mid 1864. I know that the 96th PA of the 1st Div, 6th Corps had these boxes after reading the Henry Keiser diary, where he stated they received new boxes. Sorry I don't have the diary with me at school.

Paul Boccadoro

[RyanBWeddle]

This is from a recent conversation with Frederick C. Gaede.

"Good thing he’s offering it as a repro as that is certainly what it is. One look at Laidley’s inspector’s mark should have clued you in ---- doesn’t look anywhere near an original! Nor does the CS Storms mark look very convincing. I think what this is supposed to be is the first pattern infantry Mann’s set, of which none are known. (Hence the need for a repro!) I’ve only seen a couple of the cav model made by Storms, but I do know they exist. Most of the Mann’s items were made by Gaylord. Someone is way over their head at $300+ for this one! "

Enjoy,

Ryan

[JimKindred]

Funny thing about the current high bidder, patokaman, he has been an Ebay member since 17 October, has a (0) rating on bids and sales and has changed his ID in the past 30 days. I suspect the high bidder and the seller are the same person. I will find out soon as I have pointed out to him that the item is a reproduction and worth a tenth of the current bid price.

[Michael McComas]

If you'd pay $250 for a Sekala cartridge box, why not $300 for a snazzy custom reproduction that no one else has? It'd be wicked kewl.

-Michael

"The problem with speaking tongue-in-cheek is that you are apt to bite it off."

PS -- Jim, agreed on the bidder with the (0) rating. You might want to report him to Ebay as a possible shill. They'll investigate and take action if that is the case. They caught a guy in California that had something like 30 ID's and was shill bidding against himself on his own forged artwork. They caught him because he accidentally won too often and then to avoid the massive fees, he'd report himself as a non-paying bidder.

[JimKindred]

Michael,

Thanks. I wrote to Ebay late this afternoon suggesting that they look into this guy. That problem goes on a lot more than people realize.

Thanks

[GeraldTodd]

As pointed out, It's a Mann's Patent, and I'd say an original from the look of it compared it to the original linked here and remembering one I saw years ago.

The reenacting 15th NJ had 5 or 6 sets made. I forget who did them. They were sutler row quality and didn't look like this at all. I know of no one else that did or does them (they were hardly used and only then very late - Cedar Creek time frame.)

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Funny thing about the current high bidder, patokaman, he has been an Ebay member since 17 October, has a (0) rating on bids and sales and has changed his ID in the past 30 days. I suspect the high bidder and the seller are the same person. I will find out soon as I have pointed out to him that the item is a reproduction and worth a tenth of the current bid price.

That does sound very fishy. There are people that make several accounts to bid on there own item, or have friends help them out jacking up the price.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

I am no expert on stamps, but these dont look quite right to me.

...det är något skumt här. :sarcastic

[CJSchumacher]

I am no expert on stamps, but these dont look quite right to me.

...det är något skumt här. :sarcastic

One look at Laidley’s inspector’s mark should have clued you in ---- doesn’t look anywhere near an original! Nor does the CS Storms mark look very convincing.

This is from Fred Gaede, the foremost authority at this point on catridge boxes. Because I don't have knowledge of the particular patent, if he says the marks are off...I think I'll take his word for it.

Chris