Authentic Bootees

[poncho]

Hello,
tI've been in the hobby for 10 years and never really thought about this before, but after visiting some websites this question has arose: What's more period correct, Sewn Sole bootees or pegged sole bootees? Smoothout or roughout? I've seen plenty of pictures as well as observed originals and the majority of them appear to be smoothout. However it seems that almost all repros offered are roughout. Is this just a Reenactor thing? :confused:

[tmattimore]

Take your pick on pegs or sewn sole. Millions of each were purchased by the U.S.Q.M.D.. The pre and post war regulation shoe was a sewn welt construction. However not enough of these could be produced to meet demand and both states and the QMD purchased pegged shoes and Mckay sewn shoes to meet demand.

C.S. Qm's manufactured or purchased mostly pegged shoes but imported large numbers of shoes from England including many sewn soled shoes. No mckay sewing machines were used in the south as Col. Mckay was a staunch Boston abolitionist and his company never sold a machine until they were broken up by the Supreme Court in 1955.

Almost all work shoes of the period were rough out or split leather, rough on both sides, as were regulation army shoes. This allowed a cheaper price as scars, brands , and lice holes etc. were hidden. Boots of the period were about half and half with of course rough outs less expensive. Many of the photos may appear to be smooth out but never forget the calculus of war. The derivative of sargents and spare time is expressed as polished shoes and shiny brass.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kamerad!

"What's more period correct,"

That which is researched and documented to the unit, time, and place for the unit one portrays.

"I've seen plenty of pictures as well as observed originals and the majority of them appear to be smoothout. However it seems that almost all repros offered are roughout."

IMHO, that is a largely the result of years of accepting and using poorly made and incorrect vendor wares- particularly shoes that are closer to what the Frankenstein Monster wore in the first place, and that are considerably more fuzzy, nappy,
hairier than actual CW shoes.

"Is this just a Reenactor thing?"

By and large. Not so much a "reenactor thing," but at what level of authenticity and/or period correctness is being practiced at the level (refer to the FMCPHA Model in particular and individual personal Mental Pictures in general.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Who Sure Is Happy We Have Quality Makers These Daze So We No longer Have To Shave Off, Sand Off, Cut Off, Burn Off "Shoe Hair" And Mat Our Shoes Down with Wax Shoe Polish Mess

[poncho]

Hallo Kamerad!

"What's more period correct,"

That which is researched and documented to the unit, time, and place for the unit one portrays.

"I've seen plenty of pictures as well as observed originals and the majority of them appear to be smoothout. However it seems that almost all repros offered are roughout."

IMHO, that is a largely the result of years of accepting and using poorly made and incorrect vendor wares- particularly shoes that are closer to what the Frankenstein Monster wore in the first place, and that are considerably more fuzzy, nappy,
hairier than actual CW shoes.

"Is this just a Reenactor thing?"

By and large. Not so much a "reenactor thing," but at what level of authenticity and/or period correctness is being practiced at the level (refer to the FMCPHA Model in particular and individual personal Mental Pictures in general.

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt
Who Sure Is Happy We Have Quality Makers These Daze So We No longer Have To Shave Off, Sand Off, Cut Off, Burn Off "Shoe Hair" And Mat Our Shoes Down with Wax Shoe Polish Mess

Curt,
I appreciate your reply, however I don't understand ultimately what your answer is. Are you saying that it's more correct to be smoothout, or roughout but not to the extent that we've all seen on poor repros?

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kamerad!

"Curt, I appreciate your reply, however I don't understand ultimately what your answer is. Are you saying that it's more correct to be smoothout, or roughout but not to the extent that we've all seen on poor repros?"

Well, from a "pure science sense," I hate to make universal or sweeping statements in the boooody of a few sentences in a post reply, but.. in general and with few exceptions noted...

As Herr Tom said, work (and military) shoes, tended to be made from splits.
Splits produce two "hides:" a rough side/rough side, and a smoth side/rough side.
These are not period terms, and are more properly "flesh" and "grain, and "upper leather" discussions.

And, "flesh" or "rough" side was usually facing outward.

"Are you saying that it's more correct to be smoothout, or roughout but not to the extent that we've all seen on poor repros?"

Rough side out was the "norm..."

And, IMHO for many "less than authentic" makers and vendors- "rough side out" was over-operationalized and held to be hairy... ;-)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[markmason]

Almost all work shoes of the period were rough out or split leather, rough on both sides, as were regulation army shoes. This allowed a cheaper price as scars, brands , and lice holes etc. were hidden. .

Tom, I was also under the impression that rough side out helped to repel water. This information comes from a vendor out in the state of Washington, no longer in business (can't recall his name now).

is there any truth to this?

[markmason]

Hallo Kamerad!


"I've seen plenty of pictures as well as observed originals and the majority of them appear to be smoothout. However it seems that almost all repros offered are roughout."


Bob Serio could help here. proper construction of shoes are made rough side out and properly worked, this gives them a smooth shine finish. I bought mine in 98, constructed rough side out and finished so well with waxes that I could see my refelction. I still wear them today.

[tmattimore]

I have never seen a smoothout military issue shoe with a provenance. Lined smoothouts and unlined were made in the era. Also regulations required a U.S. to be stamped on the sole in front of the heel and I have not seen any of those either. After 1863 all sewn welt or mckay shoes were to have the contractors name stamped on them under the U.S. ain't seen hide nor hair of them either. I have learned never to say never.
As to water proof I belive a smoothout will shed light water but when throughly wet will take much longer to dry. A rough out will more readily accept polish and waxes which will do a better job then plain leather.