Canvas/camp shoes

[Emmanuel Dabney]

I have been curious, just keep forgetting to post about this...

How popular were these "camp shoes" that we see so many people wearing?
Who wore them? Were they invented just before the war? Why? Where? When?

I don't do shoe research per se, but I've never seen any images of regular civilian men wearing these in the antebellum or wartime era.

Thanks for whomever may answer. :-)

[markj]

Hi,

I can tell you one thing: Significant quantities of "cloth shoes" were issued to both Western and Eastern Theater Confederate troops at least as early as Summer 1863. I have previously posted a September 1863 deserter notice, issued by the commander of the 42nd VA in the Richmond "Enquirer," providing descriptions of his men when last seen--at least three of them are stated as having been wearing "cloth shoes." Also, while perusing company clothing issue books for units in J. C. Brown's Tennessee Brigade (Army of Tennessee) at the National Archives last week, I discovered that several men were also listed as having received "cloth shoes" in the July/August 1863 timeframe.

As I recall, there are one or more images of Confederate dead at Gettysburg that, when enlarged, clearly show the corpses still wearing "cloth" or "camp" shoes. This was discussed in a different thread a few months ago.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Emmanuel

You may want to run a search on this topic. It has been covered several times. Keep in mind there were private purchase "camp/sport shoes" and ersatz CS cloth shoes.

[markj]

Hi,

Try this thread:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=326&highlight=cloth+shoes

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[hardtack1864]

We know rebs wore these types of shoes, but what about federal soldiers? And I did not see that covered much on that other thread

[theknapsack]

Heres a picture of some soldiers that are wearing them. I don't know if it will answer you question completely though.
I find they are fairly common more or less with Confederates.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

My original intent here was to see if there were any civilian references to these shoes. So far, I've searched forums and found none. And yalls postings have delivered only military references.

I should state, I don't want any (I personally think they're about as ugly as modern track and field shoes), but seeing if there were any references.

[tmattimore]

Riley
The photo you show is one of a series of photos taken in aug or sept of 1862. There is an excellent article in the summer 1986 JCOMH. By Richard K. Tibbals. They are of Btty B 1st ILL taken in Memphis. Apparently the whole Battery had their photos taken in a set of 29 . Tibbals analysis shows that out of the 147 men the following footwear is to be seen .
Boots 54
Bootees 4
"civilian sport shoes" 7
"civilian leather shoes" 1
unidentified 81
The Battery had just come from a year of campaigning participating in Belmont,Ft Doneleson, Shiloh and Corinth. They are all in new uniforms probably just off the boat. Mr Tibbals is the earliest reference I have found to these as civilian sport shoes. Thay are identical to the shoe in the MOC and Mr. Troiani's shoe in the EOG. Examination of photo's of the dead show the same pattern. My theory is that this may have been a civilian pattern but it is also the standard C.S. pattern of canvas shoes which may be captured goods. They certianly were not federal issue. I find it interesting that the same pattern shows up in Memphis in 62, Gettysburg in 63 and Richmond in 65. I have payroll records from 5 March 1863 Rhichmond depot showing 1824 pr cloth shoes under construction

[Fahlem]

Gentlemen,

A former AC posting by my good friend Brian White could also shed a bit of light on the question of whether it was common for federal troops to wear this particular shoe. He posted a photo of a grouping of men from Company F 2nd Reg. USSS just before going on guard mount. I am not looking at the photo currently, so memory must serve me. But I believe that out of the eight or so men pictured, two are certainly wearing the "canvas camp" shoe and a possible third also.
Any search under USSS or sharpshooter should bring you to the thread. I would post a direct link, but am new to the site and not real good with computer stuff yet. The quality of the photo is not as good as some copies I have seen and I feel the only good way to study a photo is a copy in hand and a good lens in the other, but his post will do. I'm sure after a good look at their feet and you can easily pick out who is and who isn't wearing the shoe in question. In my humble opinion, these (ones worn by Co. F) shoes were likely private purchase shoes from sutlers. So, at least for SS units, evidence does exist to have this shoe represented in their impression and I am sure, as threads mount, this will hold true for many federal units. As far as a history of the shoe, I can't even begin to touch that.

Michael Fahle
Co. F 2nd USSS

[Fahlem]

Gentlemen,

The above mentioned thread can be found through user name Greencoatcross and the thread, "From my files" Still haven't discoved how to post that direct link! :cry_smile

Michael Fahle
Co. F 2nd USSS

[hireddutchcutthroat]

My original intent here was to see if there were any civilian references to these shoes. So far, I've searched forums and found none. And yalls postings have delivered only military references.

I should state, I don't want any (I personally think they're about as ugly as modern track and field shoes), but seeing if there were any references.


Maybe you should ask the mods to move this thread to civillian discussion area.

[SparksBird]

Emmanuel,
I know what you are saying, I have not really seen a lot, if any, pictures of civilians wearing canvas shoes. I would be interested to know as well how common they were for civilian usage. Interesting enough, there is a photo taken of the New York Knickerbockers base ball team, and in the picture they appear to be wearing simple leather shoes. On the other hand, one interesting point is that they are also wearing ice creepers fastened on to their shoes to give them some grip.However, in the picture below, which is slightly post war 1868, the Cincinnati Red Stockings are wearing them. But, I would be curious as well as to how common they were for civilian use.


Rick Musselman
Buckeye Mess
GHTI

[Tom Craig]

My original intent here was to see if there were any civilian references to these shoes. So far, I've searched forums and found none. And yalls postings have delivered only military references.

I should state, I don't want any (I personally think they're about as ugly as modern track and field shoes), but seeing if there were any references.

Emmanuel,

It seems safe to draw a conclusion here. If canvas shoes were so common in the military then it stands to reason that they must have been widely available in civil life. Granted there needs to be more research done to draw any true conclusions, but it seems they were pretty common.

Take care,
Tom Craig

[paulcalloway]

Emmanuel -
This thread may be of interest to you: http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?p=14931#post14931

We've posted some photos of some CS Canvas Shoes with a hinged wooden sole.

[Fishermans wife]

Thanks Paul for th e post.

Emmanuel,

I wear these 'ugly' shoes for my rural civilian impression. This is my documentation and reasoning. A reference i s made in the book " A BLOCKADED FAMILY IN SOUTHREN ALABAMA" to them having cloth shoes simular to modern Baseball shoes. The book was writtten shortly post war. SO I looked at the publishing date then researched in the history of baseball. Well,What do you know? There they are.......... camp shoes.

I , like you ,have seen very few images of civilians wearing this type of shoe outside of the baseball images. ( thanks Rick for posting that). BUt it stands to reason that if you are improvished enough to resort to wearing cloth shoes that you were most likely not going to have the resources to have an images struck. ALso in the book she was rather embarassed about having cloth shoes. SO it stands to reason that they would not be photgraphed wearing this item. ( ie. children's apron's).

I am still looking everyday for any references. But this is where I am at now.

Lisa Pace

PS Don't you call my shoes ugly anymore.

[ElizabethClark]

It seems safe to draw a conclusion here. If canvas shoes were so common in the military then it stands to reason that they must have been widely available in civil life.

Mr. Craig, that's actually not a safe conclusion to draw. Forage caps were widely used in the military, but not widely used in the non-military world, for instance.

It's a much better bet to continue researching the civilian use of cloth shoes, and make any conclusions after more searching, rather than extrapolating use from military issue.

Emmanuel, while these may not be the "class" of shoe you're looking at, what about the cloth-upper shoes and "gaiters" that could be had by civilians? These are mentioned in fashion notes and seen in engravings, though I've only seen pictures of a few surviving pair (which were on ebay, and I didn't save the images). They weren't terribly crude--were more a fitted cloth/canvas upper, on a regular sole from a shoemaker.

The book "Every Woman Her Own Shoemaker" might be helpful--I can't find my link to it just now, though.

[Emmanuel Dabney]

I'm not really looking for a "class" of shoes, mainly if these canvas shoes are going to be targetted as civilian shoes, why don't we see them in more civilian images? Why not more diaries, letters, etc.? So far we had seen a plethora of military references and photos; but if they are a "sport" shoe, for what sport? Ok, baseball...well Rick points out that even New York Knickerbokers are wearing leather shoes.

While I haven't done a great amount of baseball research, I personally have found no CIVILIAN references to baseball in the American South before the end of the war. That word "civilian" excludes Confederate military. The popularity of baseball doesn't seem to become a great, fun, rip roarin' time until some years following the conclusion of the conflict. And again, I'm no baseball researcher...

The war does force some to turn to less conventional manners in finding something to cover their feet. For wartime Southerners, finding funds and resources to be able to go to the photographer; no less hope photographer has all he needs to strike your image, was difficult enough. But did these canvas shoes look like the ones currently out on the market? Would a woman have a canvas shoe made to look like this? More questions, fewer answers...

[2ndNHDOC]

I have seen many referances to these types of shoes being worn by early war New Hampshire units (2nd, 3rd infantry regiments)at least individuals. Several books even show them wearing them. I am not sure as to the validity of it but there is some documentation but for only early war for Federals.


Brian Schwatka

[Fishermans wife]

Yes Emmanuel you are correct ....more questions and way fewer answers. Lets hope that one day there will at least image found with this shoe on a civilian.


One of the first baseball images was struck at Ft Pulaski in Savannah , GA while occupied by the federals. ( Many images claim to be the first). So it definitely appears that baseball gained popularity after the war.

The reference in the book 'A Blockaded Family in Southern Alabama" was made by a woman .

"We explored the seldom visited attic and overhauled the contents of old trunks for pieces of cassimere, merino , or broadcloth to make our sunday shoes, as we could not afford to wear shoes of such fine stuff everyday. Home woven jeans and plain cloth had to answer for everyday wear. When one was so fortunate to get a bolt of osnaburg, the scraps made exellent shoes when colored. What is now called 'the baseball shoe' always reminds me of our war time shoes. "originally published 1888.


She doesn't say they are the same. BUt when I researched the history of baseball all the images of this time period were like the camp shoe.




For now we must keep looking. Maybe with several always on the look out we can find one.

LisaMs. Pace, please remember to sign your full name to your posts. Remember you can adjust your settings so that your signature appears by default. Justin Runyon, Forum Moderator

[hardtack1864]

Well, I just thought of something, if these cloth shoes were for the poor, why would soldiers buy them when they are already drawing shoes and since there are many photos of officers wearing them they would not be poor, but maybe middle class at the lowest. Just food for thought.

[markj]

Greetings,

CLARKE COUNTY [AL] JOURNAL, May 12, 1864, p. 2, c. 1
Canvass Shoes.—Capt. J. F. Jewett has shown us a very neat looking shoe the "uppers" of which are manufactured of Alabama made canvass. Captain J. informs us that he is prepared to manufacture a large number of these shoes. We wish him all success in his laudable enterprise.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[drider98]

Hello,

Here is alink to that Falmouth Sharpshooter Image:

http://www.berdansharpshooters.com/USSS_Falmouth(3).jpg

David M. Rider
Company "C" 2nd Reg US Sharpshooters
http://www.berdansharpshooters.com
1338 Greenview Drive
Bethlehem, Pa. 18018-1723
(610) 867-5128
dmrider@ptd.net

[ScottMcKay]

Here is an image of my great great grandfather wearing the canvas shoes. He was wounded during the Seven Days Battles and medically discharged just before Antietam; so I would guess the image was taken in 1861.

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=26&pos=20

[Cracker Line]

Ok, so they aren't the so called camp shoes, but here are some newspaper ads that include canvas shoes. A friend of mine made a pair of the wooden soled canvas upper ones and didn't like them, so is letting me have them and giving them a shot for my mid-late war Civilian impression down here.

Cheers,
Adam Cripps

P.S. I found tons of stuff on other types of ersatz footwear if anyone wants me to post them. However, I'm staying on topic with this one.


CHARLESTON MERCURY, April 30, 1862, p. 1, c. 6
The Ladies Making Shoes.--Quite a number of ladies of this parish have commenced making their own and their children's shoes, and they do very good work. We have seen several pairs of these home-made shoes, and they are not only strong, but they are very well proportioned. The cheapest way that they make them is to take the soles of old shoes, soak them in water until they are limber, pick out the old stitches, fit them to the last after the cloth is fitted to the same, sew the soles to the cloth with strong waxed thread, and then turn the shoe, nail the heel to its place, and the shoe is done. It is cheap, serviceable, and a very good cloth shoe.--Planter's Louisiana Banner.

DAILY CHRONICLE & SENTINEL [AUGUSTA, GA], October 3, 1861, p. 3, c. 1
Wooden Shoes.--We have received from Mr. McKinlay a pair of shoes, very simple and ingeniously made of a species of gum wood, of which our swamps contain an everlasting supply, and which, when seasoned, combines the lightness of white pine, the strength of hickory, and to some degree, the elasticity and endurance of horn. They can be made waterproof by the addition of a coat of oil or varnish. In the present scarcity of leather the suitability of these shoes for plantation use is a matter of grave moment. Specimens of the shoes may be seen in our office.
We clip the above from the Charleston Mercury. If we can make good shoes with wooden bottoms--and we know they can be made, for we saw some of them last year, introduced by Mr. James A. Gray of this city, and they are better for farm laborers than leather bottoms--and with oil-cloth tops, such material as is manufactured in half a dozen places in the Confederacy we can snap our fingers at "leather and prunella."

DAILY CHRONICLE & SENTINEL [AUGUSTA, GA], October 29, 1861, p. 3, c. 2
We learn from the Americus Republican that a firm in that place are about to commence manufacturing shoes with wooden soles and waterproof canvass uppers.

SAVANNAH [GA] REPUBLICAN, October 29, 1862, p. 1, c. 2-3
Practical Hints for Hard Times
"What man has done, man may do."
NO. 1 – SHOES.

.......5. Of anything in the shape of real shoes, the simplest and most easily made, as well as the cheapest, though not the most graceful, is the shoe with a thick wooden sole, to the sides of which the uppers are strongly fastened with ordinary three or four-ounce tacks. The making of it requires no awl, no needle, no thread, not even a shoe last, but only a properly made sole, and the uppers cut right and fastened together by a hammer and tacks. To make it shape out a sole of wood rather thicker and narrower than usual, and fitting close up into the hollow of the foot, let the uppers be made in two pieces, as chamber slippers are sometimes seen to be—the heel part in a kind of new moon shape, having its sharp point tacked not quite half toward the toes, and the toe and instep part extending back so as to overlap the heel piece and tacked about half way of the heel. The uppers may be of two thicknesses of osnaburgs, blackened with a water-proof mixture, or, what is better, of enamelled cloth, lined with strong canvas. Any person who would make a shoe of this kind without loss must first of all make himself a pattern of cheap materials, and try its fitting.

6. The fatigue shoe, used of late in European armies, and occasionally to be seen in our own, consists of a soft hempen sole, very grateful to blistered feet, and an upper of soft leather or cloth. To make the sole, take the ravelings of a rope, and plait three strands together into a flat braid as wide as the sole is to be thick, say five-eights of an inch. The, on the same plan by which a negro makes a mat of braided corn shucks, put your braided strands together, and sew them flat sided, in the shape of the sole desired. The upper and the soles are then sewed together by means of a large needle; but the operation will require a last. The bottoms of the soles may be saturated with the waterproof and made available for out door use.

....This is the time for the exercise of Southern ingenuity, and these hints are thrown out merely to give that ingenuity a start.
Marooner, Sr.
P.S.—Since writing the above, and just in the act of sending to you, I am informed of what appears at a little distance to be a beautiful French gaiter of slate color, made by a lady of this place for herself, of ordinary osnaburgs doubled. The osnaburgs were used as "the upper" of the shoe; and to the rest she was indebted to one of her worn out shoes (ladies seldom wear out soles) which she trimmed so as to give her a nice sole with heel and toe.

SAVANNAH [GA] REPUBLICAN, November 4, 1862, p. 1, c. 3
Practical Hints for Hard Times.
"What man has done, man may do."
ADDENDA TO NO. 1, ON THE SUBJECT OF SHOES.
Since the publication of No. 1, two suggestions, promising usefulness, have been made to the writer, both on the subject of soles.
Addendum 1st: A shoe in actual service and very convenient for chamber use, is reported to be made with a sole of quilted cloth.
Addendum 2d: A gentleman noted among his intimate friends for his ingenuity proposed an improvement upon article 5th of No. 1. The upper of the shoe is made of enamelled cloth tacked firmly to a thick wooden sole; but the sole itself has a joint about half way between toe and heel so as to give flexibility in walking. The hinge, made either of leather or metal, is inserted in the body of the sole, so as to be entirely invisible. So far as tried it promises to work well.

[markj]

Indeed. The following work, which predates the war, also discusses manufacture of "cloth shoes" and, in fact, provides a method of waterproofing canvas using, among other things, linseed oil, rosin, and india-rubber dissolved in turpentine:

Richardson, William H.

The boot and shoe manufacturers' assistant and guide.
Containing a brief history of the trade. History of
india-rubber and gutta-percha, and their application to
the manufacture of boots and shoes. Full instructions in
the art, with diagrams and scales, etc., etc.
Vulcanization and sulphurization, English and American
patents. With an elaborate treatise on tanning. Comp.
and ed. by W.H. Richardson, Jr. ...


Publisher: Boston, Higgins, Bradley & Dayton, 1858, xxv, 9-345 p. illus., diagrs. 19 cm.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Masked Battery]

In the UDC's collection in Charleston, SC, there is a wooden-soled shoe with a leather hinge in it, as described in the bottom of post # 24.

Neal

(Oops, I see that Neill Rose has already posted pictures of this shoe. That's no surprise-- he knows what he's about.)

[PrivateRBDavis]

I found a Quarter-Master purchase of this item by my gg-grandfather in the 155th PA's Clothing Book:

July 20/64 - 1 pr. Gum. S. Shoes $2.20

The price is on average about 15 cents more than a pair of booties went for directly from the QM. Also of note, I could only find one other instance of this item (labeled as "gum sole shoes" this time) amongst the other company books.

[cadetbentley]

hello,

if you look in the book (echoes of glory- federal) you will see some pictures of western troops wearing them.




Nick bentley

[hardtack1864]

What page in Federal EOG?