Sibley tent stove

[dpalyka]

I have the patent information for the sibley tent, however I am looking for info on the stove/pipe patent info if possible...
Any help would be appreciated.

[kent-tax]

Contact Scott Schotz of the 151st NYSV (hurrah_without_the_h@yahoo.com).

Either he or his unit has an original stove that we used this winter in the middle of a February snow storm. I can not tell you how well it worked!

[Arkansas Box Boy]

I have the patent information for the sibley tent, however I am looking for info on the stove/pipe patent info if possible...
Any help would be appreciated.

I have done EXTENSIVE research on this subject (to the point of contacting the U.S. Patent office) A patent appears to not exist for the 'Sibley Stove' as we know it.
I have a reproduction stove & pipe, built to QM specs and it works great!
My next 'upgrade' to my tent is to have the tripod constructed to the specs in the Patent I have and using an original I found sitting in storage at Praire Grove State Park.

If you need any info, contact me at: tolberd@polaroid.com

Thanks,
Don Tolbert
Holmes Brigade

[AzTrooper]

I went to Fort Bowie last week and they have a sibley stove on display in their museum, on the sign that accompanied it it said that Henry Sibley stood to make quite a lot of money(an estimated $250,000.00) for his designs of both the Sibley tent and stove. However as a result of his decision to side with the Confederacy (where he was served as a Brigadier General) he never recieved a dime for either. I am wondering if he ever got the stove patented.Just a thought....
That sure seems like a lot of money..... I wonder if what the sign said is true? I havent seen any other documantation that confirms it.
Respectfully,
John Rogers
I have the patent information for the sibley tent, however I am looking for info on the stove/pipe patent info if possible...
Any help would be appreciated.

[markj]

Hi,

Given that Sibley cast his lot with the Confederacy, you might also want to look through the surviving patents known to have been issued by the C. S. Patent Office:

http://www.myoutbox.net/popchapx.htm

I'm sure the stoves work reasonably well but I'd be curious to know how prevalent they were. If the following item is any indicator, the answer is "probably not nearly as much as they should have been...." This was extracted from a letter written by an enlisted man of Company A, 26th Indiana and published in a January 1862 number of the Rochester IN "Weekly Sentinel":

"Matters in and around camp will be my theme this time, for want of a better [subject]. The ‎weather for the past week or ten days, has been quite severe. We have snow to the depth of six ‎inches; and the thermometer indicates the cold to have been almost if not quite at zero. Our tents ‎are made of heavy drilling that will not shed water; (but anything is good enough for a soldier—‎they go to give their lives, anyhow, and it seems that the powers that be, are determined they ‎shall have every opportunity afforded them to accomplish that result,) these tents are heated ‎imperfectly by filling a camp kettle with coals. This is extremely unhealthy. Ten or twelve pairs ‎of lungs and a kettle of coals soon renders the atmosphere of a tent anything but pleasant or ‎healthy. It is to[o] cold to stay long outside, and the soldiers huddle over the coals. The ‎consequence is that colds and headaches prevail generally; with not a few cases of Pneumonia.— "

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[Huck]

I have done EXTENSIVE research on this subject (to the point of contacting the U.S. Patent office) A patent appears to not exist for the 'Sibley Stove' as we know it.
I have a reproduction stove & pipe, built to QM specs and it works great!
My next 'upgrade' to my tent is to have the tripod constructed to the specs in the Patent I have and using an original I found sitting in storage at Praire Grove State Park.

If you need any info, contact me at: tolberd@polaroid.com

Thanks,
Don Tolbert
Holmes Brigade

Who made the pipe, I have a stove.

[AzTrooper]

If Your going to use the stove , be carefull.I have only used the stove one time and I dont know if anyone else has had this happen but even with a small amount of wood the stove generated a lot of heat, I assume it is because of the shape or the stove being a inverted funnel,with the tapered end open to the outside, It was almost as if the air got superheated under pressure. The shell of the stove turned cherry red and I had to open the door to cool it off. From what I have read and seen, the pipes did not come with a damper, but if there was an acceptable way to fashion a damper it would help with this situation a great deal. I might have done something wrong that caused this to happen.Luckily it rarely gets cold enough here to need more than a blanket and maybe a poncho, so I just leave the stove at home.
Respectfully,
John Rogers
Who made the pipe, I have a stove.

[Arkansas Box Boy]

'Huck';
I had the same person make the Pipe that made the stove.
Send me an e-mail (holmesmember@cox-internet.com) and I will get you the number.
In response to the gentleman's note: Yes, the stove works great. No damper on the pipe, the stove glows cherry red. Gets really hot if you use the right size/type of wood.

Does anyone know haw to attach a picture?

Don Tolbert
Holmes Brigade

[RJSamp]

Happy 2007.

The original patent of 1856 stipulated a 12' high tent, 18' in diameter, with NO Walls. Correct? Were walls ever built into the Sibley and ordered as such? Or are these field modifications only. I'm not talking about ordinary Bell tents (of which a Sibley is a bigger Bell Tent).....but a full sized Sibley.

in other words, of 43,000+ Sibley's in use during the ACW....how many had walls built into them during the manufacturing process?

My guess is close to ZERO..... which makes the modern tent makers option to buy a Sibley with walls circumspect for our ACW use.....

Thanks! (and post Sibley with Wall pictures here!).

[Pvt Peck]

Funny this thread came back up, I am thinking of buying a full size Sibley and would love to get the stove & tripod data to have them made up. While searching online I found a neat 1867 book called "At Home in The Wilderness" by John Keast Lord in Google Books. Lord was on the English side of the US/UK border survey and was impressed with the sibley tent. He talks about it quite a bit in his book, goes into some detail. Neat book any way you slice it and has some neat Sibley info in it.


Edward Parrott

[federal_musician]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know if there is someone who is making the Sibley stove now? A reproduction we could us in the Sibley tents?


Thank you,
Frank Long

[Pvt Peck]

Here is one for sale, or use it as reference to get one made. Its a pretty simple device, any decent metal fab shop should be able to make one up.

http://www.antique-cast-iron-stoves.com/3/3-14_sibley_civil_war_tent_heater.php

You may wish to look at this link as well. Check pages 827, 829 & 830 for an illustration with dimensions & a written description of a Sibley stove. The manual is from around 1900 but I do not think the Sibley stove changed in dimensions. Hope this helps.

http://books.google.com/books?id=3SEJAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA830&lpg=PA830&dq=how+to+build+a+sibley+stove&source=web&ots=VqzrXsPgbc&sig=ym45FJAmC2rMhZLHIitXgOtvF-U#PPA827,M1


Edward Parrott

[RJSamp]

Funny this thread came back up, I am thinking of buying a full size Sibley and would love to get the stove & tripod data to have them made up. While searching online I found a neat 1867 book called "At Home in The Wilderness" by John Keast Lord in Google Books. Lord was on the English side of the US/UK border survey and was impressed with the sibley tent. He talks about it quite a bit in his book, goes into some detail. Neat book any way you slice it and has some neat Sibley info in it.


Edward Parrott

Here's the Patent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavvu

[Pvt Peck]

You can access the entire patent including Sibley's written description by searching "WW Sibley" on Google Patents as well.

Edward "conical tent" Parrott

[Arkansas Box Boy]

New E-Mail is donald.tolbert@cliffstar.com

Thanks!
Don Tolbert

[JustRob]

I would be interested in specs on the tripod and whether anyone is making them.

[Prodical Reb]

If you are close to Fredericksburg, White Oak Museum on 218, has at least one intact. I don't have a picture of it but the next time I'm out there I'll be sure to take a pic of it. Here is the web page

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/whiteoakmuseum/exhibits.html

[Eureka Independent]

Hi All,

Ft Bowie NPS , as mentioned before has a Sibley Stove and also they have a Tripod in nice shape. It is not on display . It was found a few years ago standing inteh middle of the desert.

As far as the stove pipe goes. I had this issue, as I purchased a repop Sibley Stove through George McGillis ( It is Well Woth the money & well done).

I found the correct diameter stove pipe at the Victorian Fire Place Shop, here is their web site:

http://www.gascoals.net/ChimneyCapsPipe/BlackStovePipe/tabid/413/Default.aspx

The stove pipe , just as per the original has to be assembled, via a locking seam to complete the sections (once assembled they are permanent).

Also as far as the isse uf controling the stove. I found using a brick as a sort of air intake check in front of the "mouse hole" at the base of the stove works pretty well & keeps the stove from drawing too much air. By sliding the brick in front of the hole to either block the air totally, or to let a little through keeps the stove from getting too hot. This ofcoarse works best when the door is shut on the stove.


Hope this helps

Don S

[packer01]

I went to Fort Bowie last week and they have a sibley stove on display in their museum, on the sign that accompanied it it said that Henry Sibley stood to make quite a lot of money(an estimated $250,000.00) for his designs of both the Sibley tent and stove. However as a result of his decision to side with the Confederacy (where he was served as a Brigadier General) he never recieved a dime for either. I am wondering if he ever got the stove patented.Just a thought....
That sure seems like a lot of money..... I wonder if what the sign said is true? I havent seen any other documantation that confirms it.
Respectfully,
John Rogers


The issue of the value of the Sibley patent dragged on until long after the Civil War, finally heading to the U.S. Supreme Court in December 1870. The full decision was in US vs Burns, 79 US 246 (1870) [FindLaw or other legal search engines should pull this up if anyone wants the complete text].

Basically, Major W W Burns acquired a 50% interest in 1858 to all the profits that Sibley would derive from his invention. Sibley had a contract to receive $5 from the US govt for every Sibley tent produced. In August 1861 the US govt stopped paying Sibley his royalty, and agreed to pay Burns $2.50 a tent directly. They then changed their mind in December 1861, deciding that Burns was not entitled to 'subcontract' from another Army officer, and stopping all further payments. Legal wrangling ensued....

The Court of Claims determined that Burns was entitled to $2.50 for the 40,497 Sibley tents made by the US government that they had not paid royalties on. A total of $101,242.50. The US government appealed on pretty technical arguments, but the Supreme Court finally affirmed the Court of Claims decision.

The decision only concerned the tents, as that was the only item patented. Sibley, presumably, would have been entitled to $2.50 for his share of the royalty payment, so it looks like he lost out on $101,242.50 through his decision to join the Confederacy.

The other point of note would be that Sibley appears to have received $2.50 a tent for every tent made from February 1858 to August 1861, so it would be incorrect to say that he never received a dime from the US government -- just not as much as he could have!

We also do not know the nature of Burns' 'acquisition' of 50% of the patent rights. Presumably he exchanged some value for it and Sibley did not simply give away such potential income for nothing; money up front, property, future considerations. So Sibley also profited from his patent to the value of whatever he received from Burns.

If the $202,500 of royalties on tents made in 1861-1862 is added to the number possibly made in 1858-1861, a total contract value of $250,000 may not be far off the mark. But Sibley would only have been keeping at most half of that amount anyway.


FWIW

Frank Packer

[John E. Tobey]

I have an original stove and tripod. Reproducing a 100% authentic tripod would be problematical since the top section is made of cast iron and the legs have a funny cross-section. With that being said, I have a set of plans that take into account modern manufacturing methods (fabricated instead of cast iron top, angle iron iron instead of "U" iron legs, etc.).

I don't think I can post the plans on this site due to the size of the file. Anyone interested can send me a PM via this site (after the first week of June -- I'm busy until then) and I'll hook you up.

John Tobey

[Prodical Reb]

I was out at White Oak Museum today and took these pics:
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1337
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1336
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1328
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1338
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1332
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1331
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1330
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1329
the 3rd one shows a differnt tripod w/a flattened point to support a pole but I don't think it would work for a sibley tent do to the weight of the tent would end up splitting the pole. the 7th pic shows the tent support ring, chain and hooks sitting on the tripod itself.

[AZReenactor]

Michael, Very nice. Thank you for sharing these.

By chance, did you get a chance to see how the shelf was attached to the stove?

[gilham]

Troy
I got the chance to look at one several years ago in a private collection. The shelf is attatched by rivets underneath the shelf. Meaning that a bend was made where the shelf attatches and that bend was rivited to the body of the stove.

[Prodical Reb]

I didn't think to take some pics of the the underside but the next time I'm out there or sooner I'll go and get some pics of the shelf and how it is attached. White Oak has some shelves that were recovered without the stove itself. As I recall it is just a flat piece of tin cut in a "U" shape. I'll get those also.

As far as attaching goes I would guess they were attached using a separate piece of angle iron or bent tin bracket and rivets. the angle may be gusseted but I doubt it. Something quick, available and shoddy when the stove was made (scrap tin).

I forgot to add the pic of the tripod foot.
http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=173&pictureid=1334

[Charles Heath]

Also as far as the isse uf controling the stove. I found using a brick as a sort of air intake check in front of the "mouse hole" at the base of the stove works pretty well & keeps the stove from drawing too much air. By sliding the brick in front of the hole to either block the air totally, or to let a little through keeps the stove from getting too hot.

Don,

That is the method we used with the repop Sibley stoves at Winter 1864 2008, and the "brick over the mouse hole" worked just fine. The stoves also appear to be designed to work on small wood, such as kindling, deadfall, or squaw wood, and need quite a bit of tending in cool weather.

And...for those who haven't visited D.P. Newton's White Oak Museum, yes, it really is a must see.

White Oak Museum (http://mywebpage.netscape.com/whiteoakmuseum/)

[Arkansas Box Boy]

After re-reading the patent, It appears that there was some leeway in the design of the tripods. The cast 'Socket' could be substituted as follows:

"The tripod to be furnished with a socket three inches deep into which the lower end of the pole fits snugly and is fastened by means of a rivet (Fig, 6), or for the socket, substitute a swivel ring or plate of iron, with a hole through which the end of the pole shod with iron may rest upon a shoulder (Figs. 5 and 6)."

I've attached scanned copies of the patent for your reading enjoyment.