Minstrel banjos

[michael01612]

So I need to get a minstrel banjo and wanted to solicit suggestions on which banjos.

There are the Bob Thornburg Grain Measure Banjos...
http://www.gourdbanjo.com/GBhtml/grain.html

Minstrel Boy Banjos...
http://www.minstrelboybanjo.com/

And of course the Fleshers...
http://www.flesherbanjo.com/minstrel.html

I am interested in comments about the historical accuracy of these makers....as well as other comments about quality. A tack head calf-skin banjo (such as the Thronburg Grain Measure) has me a little worried about tension issues and maintenance over time...so I am tending to lean towards an adjustable calf-skin head such as on the Fleshers and Minstrel Boy banjos. The price is right on the Minstrel Boy banjos.

What do other minstrel banjo players use? Is my maintenace concern on a tackhead valid?

Thanks,

Michael Foley

[BHoover]

I have a George Wunderluch (http://www.wunderbanjo.com/) banjo and love it. I notice that his web site says no new orders as of last summer and no further word. I know George reads this forum occasionally so perhaps he can comment, but his banjos are top notch. Whether you want a nailed head, tensioners, or even post war with all the fancy stuff. 4-string, 5-string, etc. George can make them all.

[dahoude]

I bought a Bob Flesher tension head banjo kit a few years back. Supposed to be similar to a William Esperance Boucher. It was very easy to build and I am extremely happy with the end results. Plays very well, looks great, and the price was acceptable too. If you have some average wood working skills and you don't mind doing it yourself you can save some money by building a kit, and you have something you can be proud of when your done. Here is a pic of my "Billy B."
http://home.earthlink.net/~dahoude/banjodan4.jpg
Bob's are all based on historically accurate data, in fact he owns several originals that he plays. As far as tack head verses tension head, to each their own. I went with the tension head because I wanted to be able to adjust the tension as needed and be able to change heads easily. George does indeed make equally "wunderful" banjos as well, but does not offer them in a kit form to my knowledge, thus I went with the Flesher.


Regards;

Dan Houde
149th NYSV

[El Dorado]

"What do other minstrel banjo players use? Is my maintenace concern on a tackhead valid?"

Thanks,

Michael Foley[/QUOTE]

Michael
There is a really great book called "America's Instrument - The Banjo in the Nineteenth Century" by Philip F. Gura & James F. Bollman. It is published by The University of North Carolina Press, Chapel Hill & London. Amongst all of the other banjos that is shows, it has original photo's of tackhead banjos.

I happen to own banjos made by all of the fellas that you have mentioned so, maybe I can help.

I have a Bob Thornburg tackhead grain measure wih a 14" hoop. I asked Bob to make a taller bridge for me plus the regular bridge.

The one drawback with any tackhead banjo is that when it is raining, or foggy or humid, the head loosens up and the bridge sinks down into the head which can make it very difficult to play. Also, it is not very loud when the head is loose. The taller bridge helps with that problem. I like my Thornburg banjo very much! I keep that taller bridge with me no matter which banjo I happen to be playing.

Randy England is a real nice guy and I have had the pleasure of playing music
with him a few times. I asked him to build a swelled neck banjo for me that is not on his website and he did a wonderful job! I am very happy to own it and it also sounds real good! It is not a tackhead.

I have three Bob Flesher banjos. One of them is a tackhead gourd banjo. The second is a kit version of a tackhead Boucher. The third one that he made for me is the banjo that he calls "Dandy Jim". I agree with what Dan said about Bob's kits. They are also fun to build. It is not hard to replace the head on a tackhead banjo.

I also agree with what Bruce says about George Wunderlich's banjos. I currently have one of his Sweeney tackhead banjos and am waiting for one of his Rice banjos.

Here are a few more sites to check out...........

I have a James Hartel "Henry Stichter" banjo which is really big and really cool! http://minstrelbanjo.com/index.html

I have another swelled neck banjo made by Marty Liebschner.
http://www.minstrelbanjos.com/index.html

John Huron made a 4 string tackhead gourd banjar for me that I use alot.
http://www.noteworthyjohn.com/gourdbanjar.htm

All of the banjo makers that I have mentioned did a very good job and were very helpful when I had questions. I hope that this will help you. This is my first time on this forum and I don't want to make this to long.

Best regards,
Chris Ownby

[michael01612]

Wow...thanks for the advice!

[Daniel Partner]

Michael -- Are you going to use your banjo for your soldier impression? If so, Thornburg's grain measure banjo is the way to go -- or some other homemade tackhead that resembles the soldier's banjo at the Gettysburg museum. (Photo Attached)

[/IMG]

The tackhead is no problem as far as tension is concerned as long as there is a campfire near. The heat of the fire drives the moisture right out of the head even when you are simply sitting nearby playing.

I have tension brackets but rarely adjust them. It is much simpler to use a little heat -- a light bulb at home, or a lantern at an event -- to tighten the head.

Music involves the limitation of the instrument. This is a big part of what makes antebellum banjo music unique -- the skin head, the gut strings, the friction pegs, no frets. If this causes us difficulty, it is no more difficult than it was 150 years ago.

These are not modern instruments and we are not playing modern music. We're spoiled by modern technology and so want our instruments to tune easily and stay in tune. But that's not the way these instruments work.

Daniel

[georgewunderlich]

I am sorry to do this but I feel a rant coming on. I appologize in advance if I sound a bit harsh, I promise that I do not mean to hurt any feelings here.

Please DO NOT use the Gettysburg banjo (or any other unidentified banjos from major collections) as a model for your banjo. I know that this is a strong statement so let me back it up. Most of these cvollections have no real idea what they have unless it is fully identified and dated.

According to the file on the banjo at the Gettysburg NMP, it is " Circa 1860, made locally..." There are three major problems with this. 1) "Locally "... where?!?!? This came from the NPS clearing house many years ago. It could have come from anyhwere. North, South... England, we need more infomation 2) Prior to 2002 there was almost no good data to work from to place the date on any un-named banjo. Onle a few really good collectors could have made an educated guess. The people in the NPS central wharehouse would have no real way of knowing if the history of this banjo was accurate of not. Even more of a problem when you consider that this banjo came to the park over 25 years ago. 3) There is nothing about this instrument that indicates the 1860's, but there is much that indicates later periods.

The small hoop, the ground hog skin head and the general shape of the neck all indicate a provenace from the mountain regions of VA, NC, W VA, TN and KY. The shape and overall construction details could place the banjo as early as 1870 but could also place it is late as 1970. The nails used for the head indicate a banjo not older than 1880. Banjos of this type were still being made in the mountains as late as the 1960's by people like Stanley Hicks. None of these facftors were taken into consideration when the banjo became the property of the Park Service.

There are other ways to tell. It should be noted that there are no currently known images of Civil War soldiers playing banjos that look anything like this one. They DO appear in photos from the 1890's and later! This should be an indication that this design, while very primative, was not in common use in the Civil War.

Unfortunately most museums are not well versed in banjo history. Recently Peter Szego and I identified a banjo for Pamplin Park. It had been sold as a Civil War banjo but it was actually a modified commercial banjo from the 1920's .

The last position most people fall back on is: " If a soldier made it it wold look like this primative banjo." I have seen banjos made by soldiers and they arenot all that rough. Cpl. Mills of St. Louis made a banjo from a peck measure in 1864. It has cool metal hardware, it has pearl inlay (rare at that time) and it has one of the best finishes I have ever seen. Made by a soldier, dated and with good provenance. It is in no way primative. Another was made (in part) by Wiley Burnett of the 1st NC Cav. The family lore is that the banjo was made while he was a prisoner at Point Lookout. A painting done in camp in 1864-5 may well show this banjo but that history there is enough for another long post. The pot of the banjo is a very rare 8" Boucher. The neck is walnut. It is primative but the neck design is in line with other banjos of the period.

The rule here is simple, please use the current known and identified banjos as the benchmark. Use photgraphs as well. Do your own research before you believe what you are told. Most important... ask the hard questions first. If it sound to good or easy to be true, it probably is.

[The Pigman]

Please excuse my ignorance.

How did the string tightening pegs work? Was it by friction?

Thanks,
Mark C. Foster

[georgewunderlich]

You are quite correct. The pegs work by direct friction.

If you look at a peg, it is tapered. For several hundered years luthiers have made sure that the taper on the pegs and the taper of the hole match as closely as possible. The peg hole is reamed out using a special tapered cutter. The peg is then shaved in a round planing devise that has the same taper ratio. Thing of it like a big pencil shapener. By mating the peg and the hole very closely, the friction will hold most pegs in place very well.

[georgewunderlich]

I made several comments about the Gettysburg banjo. I just got the accession report from the NPS and thought that it might be helpful to share the information contained therein.

Accession#: GETT-00420
Cat. Number: GETT 26946
Cat. Date: 04/05/1985
Cat. Folder: Y
Cataloger: Ekert
Changed by: Paul
Change Date: 02/20/2004
Class 1: History
Class 2: T&E For Communication
Class 3: Musical T&E
Condition: Com/GD
Cond Desc: Treated 10/86 at HFC by SHEETZ/Bowers
CTRL Prop: Y
Description:
Handmade banjo, circa 1860, made from locally available materials. Walnut neck 23 1/8" long and 1 1/2" thick by 2" wide at the base with a 2" wide oak or ash oval hoop attached. The hoop measures 10 1/8" long by 9" high and formed by steaming and bending (joint overlapped and nailed). The head is identified as being made from the skin of a ground hog, and is held in place are the edge by a 1/2" wide iron strap secured by iron nails/ Banjo has five strings attached by a ferrous wood screw at the base and tightened by 5 carved wood tuning keys at the top of the neck (1 mounted on the left side of the neck and four at the end of the neck). Hoop head is yellow in color with numerous brown spots and 2 discolored brown striped (left strip could be an old tear with repair). Natural wood finish. Overal length 32 3/8".

Hist/Culture Per : 19th century
Ident date: 04/5/1985
Identified by: Ekert, LH
Image: GETT 26946
Item Count: 1
Location: LL2A
Log Date: 11/13/1987
Logger: MLR
Maint Cycle: /
Manufact Date: c 1860
Material: wood/iron/hide
Measurements: L 82.3, W 26.0, H 5.3 cm
Object: Banjo
Object status: Exhibit
Origin:_ _ _ USA
Other Numbers: 82.14.8
Parts: _
Place of Manufacture: _ _ _ USA
Record ID: 9646
Status Date 2004
Storage Unit: EA
Use Date: 1860+
Obj Use: Making Music

I post this so that when we talk about this banjo in the future we can all refer to the information as it is known at this time.