Dark Blue Trousers

[coffee boiler]

I’m not having any luck tracking down the exact date in 1858 and the general order number that changed the regulation trousers from light blue to dark blue. I thought Army Blue would have this, but couldn’t find it there. Anyone have the answer? If not, I’ll add it to my list of things to look up at NARA the next time I’m there.

Regards,

[Alamo Guard]

I know it was changed in Dec 1861, that volunteer forces would wear light sky blue trousers and regular army trooops would continue to wear the dark blue. Of course this was just a regulation and not really 100 percent correct, based on what was available as needed.

[Blum]

Sorry,

I think he speak of the 1858 regulation when the skye blue was changed to dark blue. Not the dec. 1861 regulation when the dark blue was changed in another time to skye blue.

I had made the same mistake also the first time i had read the question ! ;)

[coffee boiler]

Sorry,

I think he speak of the 1858 regulation when the skye blue was changed to dark blue. Not the dec. 1861 regulation when the dark blue was changed in another time to skye blue.

I had made the same mistake also the first time i had read the question ! ;)

Blum, you are correct. The regulation which changed the trousers back to sky-blue on December 16, 1861 was general order 108. What I'm trying to track down is the date and general order number of the '58 revision. Thanks for clarifying.

Regards,

[VMI88]

I’m not having any luck tracking down the exact date in 1858 and the general order number that changed the regulation trousers from light blue to dark blue. I thought Army Blue would have this, but couldn’t find it there. Anyone have the answer? If not, I’ll add it to my list of things to look up at NARA the next time I’m there.


Bob,

I believe you'll find what you're looking for in the appendix to Army Blue. I was looking up the same information a few weeks ago and found it there. However, it's extremely difficult to decipher because the language of the regulation is somewhat vague and it applies to different branches at different times. Good luck!

[Brian Baird]

It was GO 3, dated 24 March, 1858, according to Todd's AMERICAN MILITARY EQUIPAGE, 1851-1872
Brian Baird

[Arkansas Box Boy]

Mr Clayton,
The dark blue trowsers issue has always troubled me;
Several early war events would have had the Federals in Dark Blue, correct?
If regs of Dec, 1861 changed the color to Light blue, how long would it have taken for the entire army to be 'refitted' with the new color?
I have always speculated that events like Pea Ridge, Arkansas and Shilo, TN would have seen a majority of Federals in dark blue, as the conversion to the new color would not have taken place yet. I just can't believe that the Army would have thrown away all those pairs of dark blue trowsers...

Just a thought...

Don Tolbert
Holmes Brigade

[Blum]

"Several early war events would have had the Federals in Dark Blue, correct?"

Yes, but only for the regular army regiments. Not for the volunteers ! ;)

[Robert Braun]

"Several early war events would have had the Federals in Dark Blue, correct?"

Yes, but only for the regular army regiments. Not for the volunteers ! ;)

There were MANY U. S. Volunteer infantry regiments equipped with dark blue trousers as either their initial issue or the state/federal issue once their state gray uniforms had been phased out. To name a VERY few, the Second Wisconsin, 124th New York and the 156th New York all received dark blue trousers.

Regards,

Bob

[Blum]

Thank you to correct my mistake. I apologize for that.

In fact, I had not find the right words to tell it is also possible to have many regiments in skye blue trousers before December 1861 among volunteers regiments. So, reenactors in sky blue reenacting a early war battle are not in the error. Am I right ?

It is not always easy to write in English !!! :o

[Yellowhammer]

Bob's post is quite correct. In addition to old stock, new dark blue kersey trousers were manufactured and issued to early volunteer regiments in great quantity. Remember, when the war broke out existing stocks of regulation sky blue were quickly used up and production could not keep pace with demand. When sky blue was lacking, dark blue was the preferred substitute but examples of other colors such as brown, black and gray can be documented.

For example, the 55th NY had quite dashing uniforms complete with double-breasted coats and red chasseur caps. However, material for trousers was lacking and the men went to war wearing brown trousers made by Brooks Bros. of New York.

The supply of sky blue kersey was lacking throught the vast majority of 1862 (perhaps later) and dark blue trousers were still being worn in the field. This famous image, taken at Manassas junction in August 1862, shows a variety of trousers on the ragged Federal troops deployed there.

http://memory.loc.gov/pnp/cwp/4a39000/4a39500/4a39534r.jpg

[Arkansas Box Boy]

Mr. Atlan,
As far as I can tell, Artillerymen the only enlisted men that had Sky-Blue trowsers at the start of the war. This is the dilemma I spoke about. The question remains:
If the Army did not authorize Sky Blue Trowsers until Dec, 1861, It would have taken some time for the pipeline to re-fill, correct? All enlisted infantry before that date would have been issued dark blues and the existing supply of dark blues would have had to been exhausted before 'new' sky blues were issued, right?

Let's look at a example:

Army of the Southwest, Genl. Sam Curtis. Left Rolla, MO in mid Jan, 1862 with orders to destroy the MO State Guard. The Rolla supply depot would have had a number of replacement trowsers available, but in dark blue, as the order to change to sky blue was only a month old at the time.

My bet is that a majority of the infantry were equipped with the 'old' dark blue trowsers.

Is this sound reasoning?

Any help here would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Don Tolbert
Holmes Brigade

[A Sykes Regular]

Hey, Bob - Actually I think it changed in the General Order of 1857. I'll track down the date and order number - I have an original of the U.S. Army Regulations of 1857 at home, which I believe has the G.O. in the appendices. (cit. Regulations for the Army of the United States, 1857). I'll check over the weekend and let you know - if I do, I'll transcribe and post the text up on www.usregulars.com... Heck, maybe I'll even copyright it... :wink_smil

I’m not having any luck tracking down the exact date in 1858 and the general order number that changed the regulation trousers from light blue to dark blue. I thought Army Blue would have this, but couldn’t find it there. Anyone have the answer? If not, I’ll add it to my list of things to look up at NARA the next time I’m there.

Regards,

[A Sykes Regular]

Actually, I had the 1857 regs in my office, after all. These regs were authorized as of January 1, 1857, by Jeff. Davis, Secretary of War. Whether there was a General Order that preceded the regs remains to be investigated.

page 441.
Article LI "Uniform and Dress of the Army"
Trowsers.
1411....The uniform trowsers for both officers and enlisted men will be made of cloth throughout the year; made loose, and to spread well over the book; of white and light blue mixed, common called sky-blue mixture for regimental officers and enlisted men; and of dark blue cloth for all other officers; reinforced for all enlisted mounted men.

1412 though 1415 discuss the strip on the seam of the trousers.

Article 1416 has an interesting and detailed discription of the "new" forage cap, as well...

[coffee boiler]

The '57 date answers a big question. Meryer refers to receiving the new dark blue trousers around august of 1857, which was inconsistent with the 1858 date that Langellier mentions.

Thanks.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kameraden!

I was trying to find a reference among my 7th OVI materials, where they received an issuance of what had formerly been dark blue trousers that had been bleached and redyed with indigo to make them "sky blue."
Unfortunately, the dying resulted in trousers that were markedly green to the eye.

(Which once inspired the N-SSA's 7th OVI to wear green permanent press modern work pants...)

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[poncho]

"Several early war events would have had the Federals in Dark Blue, correct?"

Yes, but only for the regular army regiments. Not for the volunteers ! ;)


Actually,
This is only partially true as Connecticuts volunteer regiments as late as October 1862 were issued dark blue trousers. The unit I portray was mustered in October 1862 and it was specified that they were issued dark blue trousers. :wink_smil

[coffee boiler]

The '57 date answers a big question. Meryer refers to receiving the new dark blue trousers around august of 1857, which was inconsistent with the 1858 date that Langellier mentions.

Thanks.

I should have read through the reg first before I posted the above message, because the 1857 reg. only continues the sky-blue regulation for the infantry and doesn't change it. So to recap, it looks like the change actually took place with general order number 3 on March 24, 1858 as Brian noted above, and Meyer's placement of the change in 1857 may be a case of poor recollection.

[Agate]

Comrades,

Hope this is of interest.



Serial Set,
Vol. 963.
35/1, HR,
Mis. Doc. No. 127

"Change in the Army Uniform"

Letter from the Secretary of War,
in reference to
The recent change in the army uniform, &c.
May 4, 1858-Referred to the Committee of Ways and Means.

War Department,
Washington, April 30, 1858.

Sir: I have the honor to acknowledge the receipt of your letter of the 28th instant, asking the necessity for the recent change in the army uniform and the legal authority for making the same.
In consequence of repeated representations by many officers of the army of the entire unsuitableness of the old uniform cap, a board was directed to convene, composed of officers of experience in the service, to consider the propriety of a change in this respect, as well as others of minor importance in which improvements were thought desirable. After a full consideration of the subject, the board recommended certain modifications of the established uniform, which are as necessary for the comfort of the troops, and desirable on account of the greater neatness and simplicity which they would impart to the soldiers' dress. The old uniform cap was represented as utterly unsuited for the service, affording little or no protection to the soldier, exposing him unnecessarily to scorching suns, to drenching rains, and cold and sweeping winds, and adding to the unavoidable hardships of active service one which could readily be obviated by the use of a felt hat as such has now been adopted. So apparent indeed, was the necessity for a change in this respect, that it is well known to the department that the soldiers themselves, finding the cap which was provided by the government useless for the only purpose for which a cap is used, as a covering for the head and a protection for the face and neck, have in many instances abandoned it and provided themselves with hats at their own expense.
The only other change which affects in any important degree the estimate for army clothing is in the color of the pants, dark blue having been substituted for a lighter shade of the same color. This alteration, while it adds not a little to the appearance of the uniform, opens a wider range of selection in the purchase of the material; and will thus, in all probability, by inviting competition, enable the department to procure a better article at a cheaper rate. So that this change, though involving an increased expenditure at the outset to inaugurate it, will be in reality a measure of true economy in the end.
The legal authority for the change is found in article 100, section 1, of the act of April 10, 1806, "establishing rules and articles for the government of the armies of the United States," which gives the President power "to proscribe the uniform of the army."

Very respectfully, your obedient servant,

John B. Floyd,
Secretary of War

Hon. J. Glancy Jones,
Chairman Com., Way and Means, H. R.

---


General Orders No. 3.

War Department, Adjutant General's Office,
Washington, March 24, 1858.

The following regulations have been received from the War Department, and are published for the information and guidance of the army:

I. Instead of the uniform cap prescribed by existing regulations, all corps of the army will wear a hat of the pattern hereinafter described:

Hat.

For officers: Of best black felt. The dimensions of medium size, to be as follows:

Width of brim, 31/2 inches.
Height of crown, 61/4 inches.
Oval of tip, 1/2 inch.
Taper of crown, 3/4 inch.
Curve of head, 3/8 inch.

The binding to be 1/2 inch deep, of the best black ribbed silk.

For enlisted men: Of black felt, same shape and size as for officers, with double rows of stitching, instead of binding, around the edge. To agree in quality with the pattern deposited in the clothing arsenal.

Trimmings.

For general officers: gold cord, with acorn shaped ends. The brim of the hat looped up on the right side, and fastened with an eagle attached to the side of the hat; three black ostrich feathers on the left side; a gold embroidered wreath in front, on black velvet ground, encircling the letters U. S. in silver, old English characters.

For officers of the Adjutant General's, Inspector General's, Quartermaster's, Subsistence, Medical and Pay departments, and the Judge Advocate, above the rank of captain: The same as for general officers, except the cord, which will be of black silk and gold.


For the same departments, below the rank of field officers: the same as for the field officers, except that there will be but two feathers.

For officers of the corps of engineers: The same as for the general staff, except the ornament in front, which will be a gold embroidered wreath of laurel and palm, encircling the silver turreted shield on black velvet ground.

For officers of the topographical engineers: The same as for the general staff, except the ornament in front, which will be a gold embroidered wreath of oak leaves, encircling a gold shield, on black velvet ground.

For officers of the ordnance department: The same as for the general staff, except the ornament in front, which will be a gold embroidered shell and flame, on black velvet ground.

For officers of dragoons: the same as for the general staff, except the ornament in front, which will be two gold embroidered sabres crossed, edges upward, on black velvet ground, with the number of the regiment in silver in the upper angle.

For officers of cavalry: The same as for the dragoons, except that the sabres will be reversed, with the number of the regiment in the lower angle.


For officers of mounted riflemen: The same as for the general staff, except the ornament in front, which will be a gold embroidered trumpet, perpendicular, on a black velvet ground.

For officers of artillery: The same as for the general staff, except the ornament in front, which will be gold embroidered cross-cannon, on black velvet ground, with the number of the regiment in silver at the intersection of the cross-cannon: The brim of the hat to be looped up on the left side, and the feathers worn on the right side.

For officers of infantry: The same as for the artillery, except the ornament in front, which will be a gold embroidered bugle, on black velvet ground, with the number of the regiment in silver within the bend.


For enlisted men: The same as for officers of the respective corps; except that there will be but one feather, the cord will be of worsted, and the badges of yellow metal. The letter of the company, of yellow metal, to be worn in front.


All the trimmings of the hat are to be made so that they can be detached; but the eagle, badge of corps, and letter of company, are to be always worn.

A cocked hat, as prescribed in the General Regulations of 1847, may be worn by general and field officers at their option. Except for the general-in-chief, three black ostrich feathers will be worn with the cocked hat, instead of a plume.

2. The uniform trowsers for both officers and enlisted men will be of dark blue cloth, made without plaits. A gold cord one-eighth of an inch in diameter, instead of a buff welt, will be worn by officers of the general staff and staff corps, and a sky-blue welt by officers of infantry; for other corps the welt at present worn. For sergeants a stripe one and a half inch wide, and for corporals a stripe half an inch wide, of the color of the facings of the corps, will be worn covering the outer seam.

3. In lieu of one of the two coats or jackets now authorized the first, third, and fifth years, and of the sky-blue cloth jacket allowed by paragraph 1402, General Regulations, two sacks of blue flannel, of the pattern issued to mounted troops, will be allowed yearly to all enlisted men.

4. The uniform coat will be made without plaits, and the number of the regiment will be omitted from the collar of the coat.

5. Instead of the common tent now in use, the pattern known as Sibley's tent will be substituted.

6. This regulation shall go into effect immediately, except that the clothing and tents of the old pattern know on hand will be issued until exhausted.

II. Paragraph 1003, General Regulations for the Army is so far amended by adding the following:

The inspectors general, when on tours of inspection where they are obliged to take a servant, shall be entitled to the actual cost of his transportation.

III. Paragraph 963 of the Regulations for the Army is so far amended to allow to the senior ordnance officer, stationed at the headquarters of a military department, one room as an office, and fuel therefor, from the 1st October to the 30th April, at the rate of one cord of wood per month.

IV. Fort Umpqua, Oregan Territory, is announced as a double ration post, and will be considered as such from the date of its occupation.


By order of the Secretary of War:

S. Cooper
Adjutant General


Howdy Brian!! ;)

Regards,

John

John Sarver
Cin. O
Co. D.,
1st Regt. Ky. Vols.

[Agate]

Regarding the availability of dark blue trousers by the QMD at Rolla.

Mr. Tolbert,

Would recommend a reading of "the Justification of Quartermaster Justus McKinstry" which is published on-line at MOA UMich.

McKinstry was the AQM at St. Louis when the war began, and though the Fremont period. I would be surprised if you did not find something of real interest if you are a student of the QMD and it's role in St. Louis.

Too, I have the interview with the Asst. QM at Rolla published in the Serial Set during this same period. Will look it up and post if anything interesting comes to light.

The job of the USQMD was not just to supply, but to supply while saving the people's money. GO. No. 3, reflects this and is in part the reason the trowser color was changed. When we try to answer questions as you have posed, it's best to keep that, and consideration of the market in mind. What was set forth concerning the Regulations is not all on which we must rely, big part of the picture, but not the whole ball of wax.

Anyway, it's a good read, post any comments or questions you might have as much is contained within the Serial Set concerning procurement from this earliest period of the history of the office at St. Louis.

Regards,

John

John Sarver
Cin. O.
Co. D
1st Regt. Ky. Vols.

[Arkansas Box Boy]

Mr Sarver,
Thanks for the info. I will read it in detail and report back as to any information I find.

Don Tolbert
Holmes Brigade