Carbine Slings

[Majpain]

Gents,
Could anyone direct me to a maker of authentic style carbine slings? Much obliged!!
Jeff Rice

[major]

Gents,
Could anyone direct me to a maker of authentic style carbine slings? Much obliged!!
Jeff Rice

Jeff
If this is what you are looking for:
http://www.9thnycavalry.webeditor.com/pictures_for_web/carbine_sling.jpg
Send me an e-mail. t.schultz5@verizon.net
Terry

[GeraldTodd]

Gee, I hope not, like THAT one.

A Jarigan sling is better and more correctly made than the one pictured.
Burgess makes a nice one, but make sure it's in stock or it may take a while.
The Skillet licker may have some,
Doung Kidd makes 'em, but I never took note of their quality.
and several other folks all make them as they were made without embellishing them to their own tastes in some way.

Everyone mentioned above, and a few more, can be found at:
http://mainecav.org/vendors.html

[Iron Scout]

Gents,

Without slinging mud, I second the motion by Mr. Todd.

Regards,

Neill Rose
PLHA/Iron Scouts
Love & Wienges

[major]

Gerald
I wasn’t aware that anything was wrong with this sling. Can you elaborate so that maybe I can correct it or so that I will know what to look for when I replace it? I could not find one on the Jarnigan web site to look at.
Terry

[lesterschumacher]

Terry......Two things real quickly. The tip piece is attached to the leather with three small rivits. and the shown stitching is NOT appropriate. I can only presume it is stitching for the buckle. The correct stitching at the buckle is three straight lines of stitching at @ 8 stitches to the inch evenly spaced over the width of the sling. @ 2 inches of the belt is folded back over itself at the buckle and then stitched in the three lines with a cross hatch stitch to jump to each line of stitch and finished. Ditto on Jerry's note.

Best

Lester (The Elder)

Lester Schumacher

[major]

Lester
Would you happen to have a picture of the stitching and rivet placement? :confused: My e-mail is t.schultz5@verizon.net
Terry

[KyCavMajor]

Lester
Would you happen to have a picture of the stitching and rivet placement? :confused: My e-mail is t.schultz5@verizon.net
Terry
I would very much like to see it as well, I am going to make a run of them for our unit. I THINK I am doing it right, but confirmation is always a good thing !!
Also, are Jarnigans Buckles and tips close ?
What is the correct weight/thickness of the leather.

[GeraldTodd]

It ain't high art, but I'm not at home to take a photo, so here's a quicky sketch... it's not to scale and only intended to show the general appearance. You're looking at the back (undyed) side of the sling on the buckle end, and the front face on the tip (left side of image).

The circles between the lines of stitching are rivets. I have seen originals with and without those rivets. I've never seen one with JUST rivets and no stitching, though such a thing may have existed - I just haven't seen one.

The rivets holding the "batwing" tip have round heads.

None of the originals I've seen had any decrorative marks or edging, including the pressed border line. The edges were all clean cut, and slightly chamfered. Again, that's not conclusive, just what I've seen myself.

The dimensions, weight, and construction can be found in the ordnance manual.

[major]

Tod
I found these two pictures on the internet the first is from 1885 but the stitching may be similar. The brass tip looks slightly smaller then the 1860 version. How close are we on this Lester?
http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/pics_html/M85Sling.jpg
http://www.horsesoldier.com/catalog/400-659c.jpeg
Terry

[major]

Gerald
Thanks for the drawing. I notices 3 rivets in your drawing. The picture I have from www.horsesoldier.com shows 4. It also shows veining on the edges. Do you think this could just be variations in manufacturers? That double X is a very tricky stitch I don't know if I can duplicate it. Did all the originals you have seen have the double X? If the X was at different ends on each row that would make more sense. Such as below. Also what is the width of or you sling? Mine is 2 1/4 inches.
http://www.9thnycavalry.webeditor.com/images/carsling.gif
Terry

[JimKindred]

The cross over stitch is extremely simple and is one of the basics that someone making these items needs to know. All you need to do is thread the thread around itself when making the stitches at the bottom of the turn back. It cannot be done on a machine.

[Coley Adair]

Terry,
The last photo (not the drawing) is an Indian Wars sling.
Tod,
You can find original buckles and tips for reasonable prices and snap swivels for that matter. If you are going to make reproductions it is very important to view/handle originals. It is not rocket science but it is an art form, things were done much different than they would be today. Just finding the correct thread can be a long search.

[major]

Jim
I understand how to do it if there are two rows of stiching but 3 rows has got be stumped, unless they are at opposite ends like in my post. Is there a way to get the two exes at the same end with 3 rows? :confused:
Terry

[JimKindred]

Yep, just have to plan ahead with your stitches. Take a close look at an original piece sewn in this manner, it isn't that hard to copy.

[GeraldTodd]

Correct on the 4 round head rivets - I left one off - my bad.
I noticed the CW original has that edge line pressed on it - I figured some did, now I've seen one. (Wonder if that's an arsenal/contractor/timeframe thing?)

The BEST way to get it right is to measure the original - as many as you can get your paws on, note their details AND look up their specs in the ordnance manual - which will give weight and type of leather, etc. (Pre-war ones were white buff many, not all, of which got dyed black)

When you're done looking at slings, we'll start a thread on sabre belts! :)

[major]

Yep, just have to plan ahead with your stitches. Take a close look at an original piece sewn in this manner, it isn't that hard to copy.
Jim
I have been thinking about this stitch and I think I have figured it out. Please let me know if I am correct.
If I start with one leg of the thread longer than the other and begin at the upper right corner stitch left to the X. Make the X to the center row. Go up and down the center row with only the long leg of thread then X to the last row, then stitch right and end it at the lower right. Sound right?
Terry

[JimKindred]

Sounds about right, the absolute best thing is to look at an original piece sewn in this manner, doesn't have to be a carbine sling just something sewn this way. Gathering information about making a reproduction online is simply scratching the surface, for a proper reproduction you must study the original example.

[tmattimore]

Terry
I started by hand sewing dressage bridles, you will soon find that getting the hang of it just takes a few. The number of twists to take between the rows will vary on the size of your thread and the distance betwwen the rows. also putting both twists on the bottom requires double stitching the center row. Every arsenal sewn piece I have ever seen up to 1943 is sewn that way. It helps to paste the fold in place so it does not squiggle on you when changing your clamp. the key is to learn never to put down your awl and needles.

[major]

the key is to learn never to put down your awl and needles.
Tom
Another trick I learned the hard way is never scratch your nose with the hand you keep the awl in.
Terry

[Majpain]

Thanks, Gents, for all of the splendid feedback! I truly appreciate it!!
Jeff Rice
1st Stuarts Horse Artillery of Virginia

[1st Maine Trooper]

Thanks, Gents, for all of the splendid feedback! I truly appreciate it!!
Jeff Rice
1st Stuarts Horse Artillery of Virginia

From the Ordinance Manual of 1862
"Carbine-Sling, (buff-leather)--Length 56 inches, width 2.5 inches; 1 buckel and 1 tip, (brass); swivel and D with roller, bright iron, 2.62 inches wide; link and hook, iron; guard spring, steel."

Interestingly enough, no mention is made of copper rivets, nor the method for attaching the buckle and tip to the belt and nothing at all about the stitching. Usually the manual is much more descriptive, for example:
"Sabre-Belt, (buff-leather)--Waist-belt, length 36 to 40 inches, width 1.9 inch; 1 square loop No.46, 2 D rings No.2 B, (brass) for attaching the slings and shoulder-strap; 1 hook, (brass,) riveted on one end by 3 brass wire rivets No.15; 1 loop, (cast brass,) sewed on the other end to connect with the plate; 1 shoulder-strap, 41 inches long, 1.125 inch wide, with 2 hooks, (brass;) 2 sabre-slings, 1.125 inch wide; front sling 17 inches long, rear sling 34 inches; 4 studs (brass) for slings; 1 sabre hook, (brass wire No. 7.)

Neither entry, by itself, provides enough information to replicate either item. Research is the key.

Dave Myrick

[Jarnagin]

There are at least three stitching patterns for carbine sling. These patterns vary by date. There at least two different types of buckles. The buckles being made now are 1864 buckles. Later this year we may have the earlier buckle made. For more information on these stitching patterns and buckles we will need to wait for Paul Johnson to finish his series on CW equipment.

These slings could be made from 3 types of material during the CW. Black buff, waxed, and bridle, for information on the dating of these leather types see Paul D. Johnson book on Cartridge boxes.

David Jarnagin

<strike>http://www.jarnaginco.com/leather%20definitions%20index.htm (http://www.jarnaginco.com/leather%20definitions%20index.htm)</strike>

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