Minstrel Music CDs

[BSpringer]

I am just getting into CW period minstrel banjo and am interested in acquiring some good music recordings. I am interested in hearing and learning from music with the authentic stroke and lyrics of the period.

I have a couple Dr. Horsehair CDs already. I am considering purchasing the Canebrake Minstrels CD on CDbaby.com. Good? Also, I have heard the Allendale Melodians and am interested in their CD(s).

If anyone has any advice on the here fore mentioned recordings, or any other info or recommendations for other minstrel music recordings, I'd love to hear it.

Thank you kindly,

[Chuck Winchester]

Bryan,
you might want to check out the "Free and Accepted Minstrels of Old New Orleans". They are an excellent group and play the songs closer to the originals than most other groups. They have a new CD entitled "Ethiopian Songs and Serenades". You should enjoy it. Be forewarned however, none of the songs were "cleaned up" for a modern P.C. audience. If you don't want to hear the "N" word in a period context don't by this CD. Like I said, it's true to the original. Good Luck,
Charles Winchester
Critter Coy.

[Gil]

Bryan,
you might want to check out the "Free and Accepted Minstrels of Old New Orleans". They are an excellent group and play the songs closer to the originals than most other groups. They have a new CD entitled "Ethiopian Songs and Serenades". You should enjoy it. Be forewarned however, none of the songs were "cleaned up" for a modern P.C. audience. If you don't want to hear the "N" word in a period context don't by this CD. Like I said, it's true to the original. Good Luck,
Charles Winchester
Critter Coy.


Charles
Where can you get there stuff? I tried a couple of search engines and have had no luck.

Gil Howard
LazyJacks Mess

[Chuck Winchester]

Gil,
e-mail: minstrel@danpartner.com He can tell you how to order.
Charles Winchester,
Critters

[BillyYank]

Bryan,
You may also want to check out the 2nd South Carolina String Bands' "In High Cotton." It is the music of the pre-Civil War deep south, mainly songs from the Mississippi River region. It has minstrel tunes, camp songs, etc... It is a great CD, by one of the more authentic groups, and they can sing great too! They did the CS version of the "USO" style show in "Gods and Generals." Many groups do not use authentic instruments, they do. Any of their CDs are great. I highly recomend them.
Bryan Stefancyk
Split Rail Fence Boys

[John Peterson]

I would glady vouch for the Canebrake Minstrels - as soon as I got "Finer than Frog's Hair" it quickly became one of my favorites. I also enjoy the Camptown Shakers. I was lucky enough to get a recording from the Amoskeag Players which, to me, has an authentic feel to it but I do not think they have a cd in regular distribution at the moment. If they do, my recommendation is that you get it. I'm looking forward to getting a copy of the Gumspring Serenaders (http://www.gumspringsserenaders.com/listen.htm) cd. I have corresponded with their banjo player, Carl Anderton (nickname on these boards is "Old Cremona") who is an awfully nice guy and a talented musician.

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Yeah, I agree... The Canbrake Minstrels "Finer than Frog Hair" is pretty good... I listen to it all the time.

I would like to buy more though... I heard Ed Sims has a killer minstrel CD out there... Heard he's the best too... Is this true? Anybody know?

Thanks,

[Delhi Rangers]

I second the recommendation of the 2nd South Carolina. Their CD "Southern Soldier" is great.
Thanks
Johnny Pullen

[El Dorado]

In my opinion, you should start with all of Joe Ayers tapes including "Early Banjo Classics" volumes 1 thru 4. Also, the Joe Ayers tapes "Old Dan Tucker" and "Banjo, Bones & Boatmen".

Bob Kilham's group "The Amoskeag Players" are great!!! They have a tape called "Minstrels of Great Renown" and a CD called "The Peculiar Institution".

The "New World Records" CD, "The Early Minstrel Show" is really hot!

My friends Ed Sims and Daniel Partner of the "Free and Accepted Minstrels of Old New Orleans" have a dandy CD that will also help you alot.

Clarke Buehling is a wonderful banjo player. Try his tape "Clarke Buehling - Out of His Gourd" It is gourd banjo instrumentals and songs.

You might want to get some minstrel music banjo books too. Centerstream Publishing has just finished it's third book by Joe Weidlich. I got my copy in the mail today. It is called "The Early Minstrel Banjo - technique and repertoire by Joe Weidlich.

Best regards,
Chris Ownby

[HOG.EYE.MAN]

Chris,

Thanks a bunch... I need to check out those CD's... Can't get enough minstrel music...

Hog-Eye Man

[mladair]

You might want to get some minstrel music banjo books too. Centerstream Publishing has just finished it's third book by Joe Weidlich. I got my copy in the mail today. It is called "The Early Minstrel Banjo - technique and repertoire by Joe Weidlich.
Chris,

How in the world did you get your copy already!? Everybody I've contacted say they haven't come in stock yet. I even tried emailing they folks at Centerstream but never received a reply. How much would you take for it? :D

[riverratmess]

I third the 2nd South Carolina String band. I met them at an event a little while back, greaty bunch of guys.

[El Dorado]

Chris,

How in the world did you get your copy already!? Everybody I've contacted say they haven't come in stock yet. I even tried emailing they folks at Centerstream but never received a reply. How much would you take for it? :D


Matt,

I just kept e-mailing Ron Middlebrook at Centerstream asking him when the book would be ready. I have the first copy in California. It is a really great book!!! It has alot more information in it than any other minstrel tab book that I have ever seen. This is the Table of Contents..............

Chapter I A short history of the banjo in the United States to 1865

Chapter II Summary of the Idiomatic Minstrel Banjo Techniques

Chapter II Gumbo Chaff's Complete Preceptor for the Banjo

Chapter IV Thomas F. Briggs Banjo Instructor

Chapter V Phil. Rice's Correct Method for the Banjo with or without a Master

Chapter VI Abridged New Edition of [Elias] Howe's New American Banjo School

Chapter VII James Buckley's New Banjo Book

Chapter VIII Frank Converse's Banjo Instructor, with or without a Master

Chapter IX Frank Converse's New and Complete Method for the Banjo with or without a Master

Chapter X Minstrel Banjo Arranging 101

Minstrel Banjo Repertoire Selections: Song List

Appendix I Minstrel Song Cross Reference Index 1851-1865

Appendix II 1. Information on the American Banjo Society
2. Strings
3. The Standard Pitch
4. The Virginia Reels of George P. Knauff
5. New Information on James Buckley's New Banjo Book

Epilogue



I would imagine that you are drooling by now. E-mail Ron at Centerstream again. He is at centerstrm@aol.com or P/F (714) 779-9390

Good Luck,
Chris Ownby

[SouthernRifle]

Check this site out

http://www.minstrelbanjos.com/

It is the webpage for Martin Liebschner, who uses original instruments in all his recordings. I heard him a few years back at Gettysburg, and he is great. If you saw "Ride with the Devil," he's the one playing and singing 'Old King Crow' during the one camp scene (if you didn't see the movie, I recommend that too).


Rob Weber
3d Alabama

[georgewunderlich]

The most important of all minstrel style recordings is put out by Rounder Records. It is called Minstrel Banjo Style. It features the best minstrel style players in the country.

You also need to get the Early Minstrel Show on News World Records. It was put out by Robert Wynans in 1984 and features all original instruments. It was re-released by New World a few years ago.

No collection is complete without these.

[MO-Pard]

After the great minstrel show at Perryville, I have been trying to track down some of the Allendale Melodian's CD's. Something to supplant the songs continuosly playing in my head.

I know Chris at Carter & Jasper had carried them, but he's sold out.

Anyone point me to where we can still get these?

Best Regards

[crabby]

Although not listed on our web site yet, we do carry the Allendale Melodians' CD 'Gentlemen Be Seated' and also 'Professor Sable's Songster' CD. The songster includes a booklet with the words to all the songs on the CD.
As a warning, both of these CD's contain the original words that some might find offensive. They are however the songs heard at Perryville, plus a few more.

Please contact us for more information,

John & Beth Crabb
Ezra Barnhouse Goods

[MO-Pard]

Thank you, so much for the direction. I do now remember seeing them outside your store where I bought a Harpers and some of Terre's fine yarn. I remember wanting a couple other items and the next day the cd's, but just didn't have the money on hand. Then upon arrival home, found a wad stashed way in my tail pockets. Was bummed, but it was also nice to come home from an event with money!


"Period" and not the modern "Politically Correct" are the only way I would go, but thank you for kindly pointing that out. In this instance, period ensures the sale.

I, and I am certain many others, will be contacting you shortly!

Thank you.


Best Regards

[crabby]

Jay,

And they are already contacting us!!!

Crabby

[Horton]

I also recomend 2nd South carolina and also Marty Libshner(<--misspelled). His website is www.minstrelbanjos.com.

[dahoude]

Jay,

If Minstrel Music is your passion, I'd recommend that you check out our offerings as well. We have a large selection of period correct perfomances of Antebellum era songs and music, including "The Free and Accepted Minstrels of Old New Orleans", "The Canebrake Minstrels", "The Camptown Shakers", "Marty Libschner", and many others. Just go to our website at http://www.orchardhillsutlery.com and click on the Period Music link.

Best Regards;

Dan

[BenjaminLDavis]

Hey all,

I will merely be seconding some of those already listed: I find these CDs both
superb and indispensable - the Free And Accepted Mistrels of Old New Orleans,
(self-titled); the Canebrake Minstrels - "Finer than frog hair;" 2nd Carolina
String Band - "In High Cotton;" the Camp Lincoln String Band - "Counting
Stitches;" the Gum Springs Serenaders - "Nelly Was a Lady." I also own 3
of Marty L.'s fine CDs, as well as 3 penny whistles he sent me (I hope to learn
how to play them over the winter, I tormented my comrades with one until they
threatened breakage/burning less'n I stop forthwith!) And penny whistles are
cheap and period correct.
Though it is not minstrel music, I would also encourage you to pick up some
music from the Old Country, comes in handy with many impressions. David
Kincaid has a couple of excellant CDs out there on the Irish-American's songs.

One final thought: period banjo strings were made out of catgut, and had
a sound close to the thick acoustic strings of today - if you hear metal
strings on a "period" CD, beware. Good luck in your quest to learn some
new songs to sing round the fire; just last season, I added "Annie Laurie"
to my mental songbook, and it has become one of my favorites (I share
this with JEB Stuart!)

[ThehosGendar]

You can't beat the Camptown Shakers, in my book. Their latest CD, "Shakedown" is one of the best recordings I have ever heard, and there's alot of great, obscure, and weird stuff on there. Great musicianship, and an impeccably authentic sound!

[Danny]

Bryan -

If no one has directed you there already, go to

http://www.milfordmusic.com/Banjo%20Audio.htm

to hear and download (wma format) some remarkable Minstrel material by advanced amateurs and some pros, mostly played in the fashion of CW period banjo tutors, and by people interested as much by history as music.

btw The 2nd Carolina recent stuff - In High Cotton etc - is good if you want to catch the real spirit of period play, even though, by expert accounts, much is not played at a period tempo. (Perhaps because they want their CDs to sell today. Period tempo is quite slow and metered by today's standards. But who's to say that a particular soldier player wouldn't have played faster?)

I have most of the 2nd S. Car. CD's because they do sound so well. Be also advised that their earlier material - Southern Soldier etc. - in addition to being too fast a tempo for period, is not either played on period instruments. In particular the banjo is not gut-stringed. The band has moved to more authentic only recently.

The other CD's mentioned here, and any of Partner's material, I agree are a good bet for authentic sound as is.

- Dan Wykes

[Danny]

I second Early Minstrel Banjo CD as a must include.

- Dan Wykes

[joewhitney]

Fraid I'll have to take some small exception to a couple of comments. "Period tempo" is a nebulous term, because generally no metronome markings were used in the printed material. Even if they had been, the majority of musicians did not have access to printed tutors, and learned by ear. Consequently, we don't really know exactly what tempos were used for specific tunes, so one person's take is as good as another's. General descriptions of "fast", "slow" and "moderate" are too vague to accurately quantify.

Many today believe minstrel music should be played very slow because the first person to sell recordings of it, Joe Ayres, played very slow. However, I've been told Joe said he didn't base his style on any actual documentation, he just played it the way he liked it. I suspect that was common back then as well.

Human nature hasn't changed over the centuries. As musicians become proficient, they tend to see how fast they can play, because it's more challenging, has more energy, and makes the audience more enthusiastic. We know that other types of music from the period, brass band, fife and drum, classical orchestra, etc. often played pieces very fast. Can you conceive of the Fireman's Quickstep or Rossini's William Tell Overture being played slow? Could there be any good reason why of all period instruments the banjo alone was to be played slow, even by those with many years of experience on it?

Certainly, the type of music should affect the tempo. Few would find sentimental pieces like My Old Kentucky Home or Hard Times pleasing when played very fast. But Old Zip Coon wouldn't have the same zip if played at a plodding pace, and Brigg's Breakdown wouldn't inspire dancers to kick up their heels if it just dragged along. The last is an important point because much of this music was meant as an accompaniment for dancing, both for couples in the ballroom and for individual performers of what is called "clogging" today.

An excellent indicator of how much styles might have varied is music from Ireland. On this little island, the huge variety of regional tempos and playing styles that once existed shows how eclectic folk music was in the pre-recording age. But sadly, with the advent of recording technology, many of these styles are disappearing, as certain recordings become popular and eventually dominate the music scene. Today, we can only guess at how varied American minstrel music styles were, especially before the Civil War, but I suspect it was as rich and diverse as Irish music styles once were.

As for the 2nd Carolina String Band, generally, our banjos are in fact gut stringed. On occasion, Joe Ewers will pull out his ca. 1880's metal-stringed Stewart banjo for a couple of tunes ("cause he likes the sound), but he always explains to listeners that it was the postwar successor to the fretless minstrel banjo. This is especially appropriate on "Angelina Baker" where we show the progression of American music by medleying the Civil War version to the Appalachian, and Joe does a quick-change to the postwar banjo in the middle. For the record, metal strings had existed for some time, but were not in common usage yet.

As for the rest of our instruments, I play a ca.1850's Firth, Hall & Pond flute (just like Stephen Foster's), an 1813 Hicks snare drum and an 1850's Klemm bass drum. Our guitar is an 1850's Martin prototype, the fiddles are original or authentic reproductions, and of course the bones, tambos, triangle and cow jawbone are original or authentic reproductions. Greg plays a two-piece D fife which, while not widely produced here, were being reproduced in England during the period.

By the way, over time we have made efforts to improve the authenticity of our arrangements by incorporating those found in the existing sheet music that was starting to be widely published, typically piano and guitar scores for the parlor. These can give us some hints on arrangements minstrel ensembles might have made when presenting the music to larger audiences.

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Md. Line Field Music

[ThehosGendar]

Joe,

Quite agree. Especially within traditional Irish music, you had the Sligo style of flute playing, the East Galway, and the more recent piping style as played by Matt Molloy and Seamus Egan. Recording have "blurred the borders," though of course, one's playing can still take on those regional characteristics if the particular musician they're studying plays solely that style.

I saw you playing with the 2nd at Gettysburg this year. I was working the Gibson tent with Speedy and Terry, and caught sight of your flute and wondered if it was an original! It certainly caught my eye. The Firth and Ponds have smaller tone holes, don't they? How's the sound on it? Anything near the bark of a Ruddall/Rose or Pratten?

Cheers!

[Danny]

Joe -

You are at the point I was on this topic a few years back, but with further study in that area I have come to the conclusion that, in fact, human nature has changed a bit over time. I now believe that for us of the rock n' roll generation it is just too hard to accept that the notion of fast tempo in CW times was likely quite different than what we consider fast tempo to be today. The popular songs were well-enunciated and full-voiced in emulation of the stage performances of the time, and the words simply need to fit a reasonable tempo.

Still, I allowed that a particular group of players, perhaps Minstrels, of the time had their own dynamics, and I concede that quick-steps and reels, instrumentals, were likely played at a faster tempo.

BTW, was it 2nd S. Carolina String Band, who performed many years ago in a documentary (or local station feature) on a South Carolina television station? I have a sound cassette of it, made for me by my sister in Charleston, but is of marginal sound quality -- too bad because the rendition of "Soldier's Joy" in that segment was rousing, in fact astounding! Your available recordings don't cover it that way (I have nearly all of them) I would love to find or borrow the VHS of that session were it available.

- Dan Wykes

[ThehosGendar]

Some primary source clues to period tempos, from observations at Pete Williams' Dance Hall, in the Five Points, home of the famous Master Juba, William Henry Lane. From New York by Gaslight by George Foster, 1850:

"It is Saturday night, and the company begins assembling early, for Saturday night is a grand time for thieves, loafers, prostitutes, and rowdies, and well as for honest, hard-working people. Already the room – a large desolate looking place, with white-washed walls garnished with wooden benches is half full of men and women, among whom the latter at this hour predominate. Later there will be pretty nearly a numerical equilibrium established – for the “friends of the house” are out in all directions picking up recruits.

In the middle of one side of the room a shammy platform is erected, with a trembling railing, and this is the “orchestra” of the establishment. Sometimes a single black fiddle answers the purpose; but on Saturday nights the music turns out strong, and the house entertains, in addition, a trumpet and a bass drum. With the instruments you may imagine the music at Dickens’s Place is of no ordinary kind. You cannot, however, begin to imagine what it is. You cannot see the red hot knitting-needles spirted out by the red-faced trumpeter, who looks precisely as if he were blowing glass, which needles aforesaid penetrating the tympanum, pierce through and through your brain without remorse. Nor can you perceive the frightful mechanical contortions of the bass-drummer as he sweats and deals his blows on every side, in all violation of the laws of rhythm, like a man beating a baulky mule and showering his blows upon the unfortunate animal, now on this side, now on that. If you could, it would be unnecessary to write.

…And now the orchestra strikes up “Cooney in de Holler” and the company “cavorts to places.” Having taken their positions and saluted each other with the most ludicrous exaggeration of ceremony, the dance proceeds for a few moments in tolerable order. But soon the excitement grows – the dancers begin contorting their bodies and accelerating their movements, accompanied with shouts of laughter and yells of encouragement and applause, until all observance of the figure is forgotten and every one leaps, stamps, screams, and hurras on his or her own hook. Affairs are now at their height. The black leader of the orchestra increases the momentum of his elbow, and calls out the figure in convulsive efforts to be heard, until shining streams of perspiration roll in cascades down his ebony face; the dancers now wild with excitement, like Ned Buntline at Astor Place, leap frantically about like howling dervishes, clasp their partners in their arms, and at length conclude the dance in hot confusion and disorder. As soon as things have cooled off a little each cavalier walks up to the bar, pays his shilling for the dance, and the floor is cleared for a new set; and so goes on the night.”

From: George Foster, New York by Gaslight (Berkeley: University of California Press, originally printed 1850, this edition 1990) 141-143.

[joewhitney]

Unfortunately, Edison hadn't invented his wonderful recording device yet, so without metronome markings, we can't know what tempo they actually played at. But I can tell you rock and roll didn't invent the fast tempo in popular music. Some of the earliest 20th century recordings of folk music, both American and British Isles, shows that often instrumental tunes were played at very fast tempos.

Now as for songs, yes, if words are involved you generally play slower. In fact, one old-time tradition that has survived is to wrap up a song by playing just the melody at a faster clip. We do that with Old Zip Coon, for example.

We do sing a rousing version of Soldier's Joy, or as it's also called, "Rock the Cradle Juile". But I don't think that was us you saw on TV down in South Carolina, since we're not actually from South Carolina, We usually get asked that one of two ways, either "What part of South Carolina are you from?", or if they hear our accents, "Y'all ain't from South Carolina, are ya?" Always makes me wonder if anyone ever went up to the Ethiopian Serenaders and asked "Y'all ain't from Ethiopia, are ya?"

Often, we respond musically to the question by singing our version of the James Taylor song:

In our minds we're from South Carolina
None of us was born there, none of us has lived there,
But we did once play there so, everything is fine,
and we're from South Carolina in our minds

Joe Whitney
2nd SC String Band
Md Line Field Music

[sepoy1857]

I love period music. The 2nd SC's "Hard Road" is good, and I've just ordered Canbrake Minstrels and Camp Lincoln's CD's from CD Baby. Looking forward to these and many others at some point. I was inspired by the CD page at Orchard Hill - Thanks guys...