Quality sword replicas?

[UnionMan]

Gents,

If I have missed something already posted in the forum, please forgive me as I was not able to find anything.

I am in the market for a line officer's sabre (Federal) and was wondering if somebody could recommend a quality maker. Most reproduction blades are junk. What is my best option?

-Tad

[Yellowhammer]

Tad,

The pickings are fairly slim out there for some of the most common Federal officer's swords. I am unaware of any correct 1850 Foot Officer or Field and Staff Swords currently being offered. The examples of these patterns I've seen recently ran the gamut from marginal to utterly unacceptable.

However, the good news is that there are some acceptable reproductions being made.

First, there is an Ames marked reproduction of the "1860 cavalry saber" being made. While not perfect, there are head and shoulders above any of the other repros of this pattern. Sabers of this pattern were carried by Federal officers of many ranks throughout the war as either their primary or "field" swords.

http://imagehost.vendio.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/bigmick45/g739.JPG

Another good one is the "Import" foot officer sword. This is a reproduction of the swords imported from Solingen, Germany. CAVEAT EMPTOR on this one as I've seen several examples varying from very good to poor. Fit and overall quality varied dramatically.

Two more good repros are the 1840 light artillery officers saber and the 1860 light cavalry officers sabers. While probably not the best choice for a Federal infantry junior officer, at least they are well made reproductions. I am aware of at least one saber of each of these patterns id'd to CS infantry
officers. (The artillery saber is better than the cavalry saber IMHO.)

Here is a pic of the cavalry model. Note the tight braid, good fit of grip, and other nice details. My main complaint about this saber is the marginal quality of the castings of the scabbard hangers.

http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/bin/imageserver.x/00000000/bigmick45/1000326074-picture.jpeg

If you are an eBayer, check out seller BigMick45. He frequently has a variety of good reproduction swords and sabers for sale.

Last, the Discriminating General is worth a look. They carry a variety of period British swords which can be found in period catalogs of officer's furnishings and extant originals. I recently examined a British artillery saber that was id'd to a PA Lt. who was KIA at Sharpsburg.

http://www.militaryheritage.com/

I hope that helps.

Cheers,

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kamerad!

There are the Sutler's Row junk, and then there is the "better junk."

IMHO, there are no current makers of a quality sowrd or saber.

I assume you mean a M1850 Foot Officers Sword?

For about $225, or so (I am rusty), one can pick up a high end junk from places like Legendary Arms. And for about $150, a sword restoration "service" or guy" can replace the bogus black leather grip wrap with correct ray skin (everyone I know lives with the leather though...).

During the CW Centennial, someone made some fairly decent reproductions.
Every once in a while, one of these turns up at a gun show. I have one that is an M1850 Staff & Field Officers Sword and although not as "prefect" as an original, it is nearly, and definitely well head-and-shoulders above the current "high end" India/Pakistani imports.

Another alternative is to look to the original "non-regulation" CW imports from Germany, England, or France. "Junior" officers sometimes purchased these if their wallets were not that large.
I have a mint German version imported through Schuyler, Hartley, & Graham of NY I paid $225 for a few years ago- the same money as the India/Pakistani inferior repro's...

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Sorry, John.

I did not see your post until after I sent mine...

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[markj]

Hi,

I know exactly how you feel. A couple of years ago, the grandson of a lieutenant in the 32nd (German) Indiana gave me the rare opportunity to actually strap on his ancestor's sword and carry it at an event (I did NOT take it on to the field!). The sword itself is consistent with those made by Saubier & Co., carries an inscripion on the scabbard indicating it had been presented to the lieutenant by his friends in Indianapolis on 1 April 1864, and has a silver "gripe." To our knowledge, this event was the first time it had actually been carried since the lieutenant's return from the war in 1865. Most definitely a "Kodak Moment."

Needless to say, the difference between my Indian-made "Pattern of 1850" piece of junk and the original was like night and day.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[UnionMan]

Thanks for the help guys. It appears that finding a good replica 1850 foot officer's sword offers the same sad story of trying to find a good replica bayonet :)

What makes the two very different is that I can afford an original bayonet, and feel comfortable reenacting with one.

I will ride out Ebay for some time and see what turns up...before having to throw $200 at a questioinable piece. If one had to pick up a reproduction, is Legendary Arms the best bet for online dealers?

-Tad

[DougCooper]

Look for swords made by Ordnance Park - a defunct company that made excellent repros back in the 80's and perhaps very early 90's. Examples still show up from time to time. Not only are they good in appearance but their balance and weight seems closer to the originals I have handled. People keep offering me money for my 1850 FO repro.

Other than that - see Big Mick on e-bay and wheedle him for the best, which as you have already heard here is well...the good news is everybody else is in the same boat.

[KathyBradford]

Please forgive my complete and utter ignorance here. A Pennsylvania shop has a table full of swords, and I know nothing about them. The gentleman who owned the shop passed away, and his wife also knows nothing about them. I'm posting these photos in hopes that they may be used as a lesson illustration on how to identify characteristics of right and wrong. If it is only a table full of Knights of Columbus swords and things from wrong time periods, please pardon the intrusion.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Does anybody know were to pick up a quality scabard?

[Bill Cross]

I will ride out Ebay for some time and see what turns up...before having to throw $200 at a questioinable piece.
-Tad
Tad,

I don't know what your budget is, but if you're going to spend $200 for something that will only decrease in value the moment you buy it, you might want to look at purchasing a generic original that will either retain its current value or increase if properly taken care of. In my own case, I bought a nice French import sword from this regular eBay seller for more than what you're talking about, but far less than the $650+ that most 1850 Foot Officer Swords sell for from the antiques dealers.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=36037&item=2238078321

This gentleman specializes in French swords (apparently he travels to France where he purchases many of his items), and the quality of the sword was very good. You can ask him if he has anything in a particular price range. The one I bought has no markings, and is like the many French imports brought to this country during the Rebellion because domestic production could not keep pace with the demand for newly-minted officers (and since swords were usually returned to the survivors when an officer was KIA, the demand for butter knives did not abate). I needed to restore the wire wrap (about $15, again available on eBay), but I avoided the ray skin dilemma by going with a bone handle. I also had the sword "tuned up" by a craftsman here on the forum for about $50 to tighten the hilt and restore the felt pad where the sword joins the scabbard. Finally, its metal scabbard meant that I did not have to find a decent reproduction, which is either pricey or means hunting around for the correct brass parts on eBay and elsewhere.

I will not get into the question about whether it's right or not right to take an original item into the field. That's a topic best left for another discussion.

[KentuckyReb]

Kathy--

The swords with the cruciform hilts and the pommel in the shape of a knight's head (particularly the one in picture #1 with the chain connecting the pommel with the crossguard) are most likely swords from fraternal organizations like the Odd Fellows or the Masonic Knights Templar, the K of C like you said, etc. I'm thinking probably the one with the head of a 'Colonial-looking' gent in #3 might be too...maybe Sons of the American Revolution, if they had swords as regalia...? Not real familiar with them. The saber-style swords--can't help you there. Might not have helped you at all. :D Herr Schmidt, or some member of the board who happens to be a Freemason could probably tell better than I about the 'fraternal-looking' swords. Just speaking from what I've seen looking at Masonic and IOOF regalia online.

[UnionMan]

I just received word from Ames that they sell a reproduction 1850 Foot Officer's Sword for around $240. They say that the blades and scabbards are made to their specifications overseas, but that the rest of the parts are made in the USA and the sword itself assembled here. Anybody seen one of these?

Thanks,

-Tad

[hireddutchcutthroat]

I just received word from Ames that they sell a reproduction 1850 Foot Officer's Sword for around $240. They say that the blades and scabbards are made to their specifications overseas, but that the rest of the parts are made in the USA and the sword itself assembled here. Anybody seen one of these?

Thanks,

-Tad


I found out yesterday from a friend that works for a major sportsware/military gear manufacturing company, that Made in USA also includes Puerto Rico, Guam, Saipan, and other off shore US possession.

[mtvernon]

I'm having a bit of buyer's remorse and am seeking confirmation or encouragement. I just purchased an M1850 Foot Officer's Sword (Without Marking) for 64.99. The version with marking sells for $199.99. The only difference stated was that one had markings and one didn't. I know from my limited research that this company sells 'pretty ok' level repro swords, but I'm starting to gulp a little.

Does anyone know the sword of which I speak? Any thoughts on whether I threw my money away or not?

Many Thanks,

[FTrooper]

Joe,

Recently a friend also bought said sword...and ironically he came WITH all the markings! (no guarantee yours will).

The problem (as this whole thread notes) is there really isn't any good replica swords or bayonets out there. And the pickings for anything other than a Cavalry sabre are REAL slim.

I can understand your hesitance, but if you can find ANY other dealer of M1850 foot officer's swords, I'd like to know it!

Chris Fischer
Fort McKavett
&
F-Troop

[Erik]

Here is a topic near and dear to my heart.
I own a Wilkinson sword custom made for me for the 1860's era British Rifle Regiments presented to me by my wife and my mother when I became Regimental Sergeant Major. It would serve very well as the only real difference is the etching on the blade, which says ER instead of VR. The whole sword is light and the blade as flexible as a whip. My wife would kill me if I took it into the field. When I became an officer I searched sutlers row for a foot officer's sword. As everyone has said they are junk or superior junk.
An officer in the Gurkhas told me that craftsmen beat out swords and kuhkris at the side of the road from old truck springs. I believe him as most Indo Pakistani replicas weigh a ton and are poorly made with no balance and grossly overweight.
To fill the gap I bought a sutlers row sword for $200 and hated it instantly. I had the pleasure of helping out a newly minted officer by selling it for $35. I used a lighter incorrect sword for a year and will toss it onto the field as battlefield refuse at the next reenactment.
I wrote to the people producing Ames swords several times asking about weight and each time received the same catalogue.
I am tired of carrying truck springs that weigh me down and look ludicrous.
I am after a period British sword as they are reasonably priced and were used.
In the meantime, while in Gettysburg last month, I toured the usual sutlers row stores looking for antiques and the elusive painted blanket. I found an Indian sword with a leather scabbard and of a decent weight and balance, obviously from a high end truck. The grip wrapping was a nice double twist, though on leather. The brass castings were nicely done and the scabbard is very brilliant.
I can live with this until I find the one I want that won't offend me or those in the know.
Maybe my Wilkinson might venture into the field when my darling bride is not looking. I am sure that my mother would approve.
Wilkonson does not make swords now.

Erik Simundson

[Daniel]

Although not Union swords, I think during the 1970s or so, a guy in St. Louis had a batch of Confederate Swords made. I cannot think of the guys name, but sometimes these swords pop up from time to time. I picked up a Kenansville, NC sword and it really does have a heavier weight than the stuff out now. Does anyone have any additional information on these old repro Confederate swords?

Dan Stewart

[mtvernon]

Here is a topic near and dear to my heart.
I own a Wilkinson sword custom made for me for the 1860's era British Rifle Regiments presented to me by my wife and my mother when I became Regimental Sergeant Major. It would serve very well as the only real difference is the etching on the blade, which says ER instead of VR. The whole sword is light and the blade as flexible as a whip. My wife would kill me if I took it into the field. When I became an officer I searched sutlers row for a foot officer's sword. As everyone has said they are junk or superior junk.
An officer in the Gurkhas told me that craftsmen beat out swords and kuhkris at the side of the road from old truck springs. I believe him as most Indo Pakistani replicas weigh a ton and are poorly made with no balance and grossly overweight.
To fill the gap I bought a sutlers row sword for $200 and hated it instantly. I had the pleasure of helping out a newly minted officer by selling it for $35. I used a lighter incorrect sword for a year and will toss it onto the field as battlefield refuse at the next reenactment.
I wrote to the people producing Ames swords several times asking about weight and each time received the same catalogue.
I am tired of carrying truck springs that weigh me down and look ludicrous.
I am after a period British sword as they are reasonably priced and were used.
In the meantime, while in Gettysburg last month, I toured the usual sutlers row stores looking for antiques and the elusive painted blanket. I found an Indian sword with a leather scabbard and of a decent weight and balance, obviously from a high end truck. The grip wrapping was a nice double twist, though on leather. The brass castings were nicely done and the scabbard is very brilliant.
I can live with this until I find the one I want that won't offend me or those in the know.
Maybe my Wilkinson might venture into the field when my darli
ng bride is not looking. I am sure that my mother would approve.
Wilkonson does not make swords now.

Erik Simundson

That is hilarious. I can't wait to brandish my brand-new spring-with-a-hilt! Actually, while on the subject (and to move this thread entirely off-topic), this whole experience is really exposing my ignorance. I was recently elected commander of my SVR company. My entire four years in the hobby has been occupied by seeking the experience of and learning about the common man in the war. Suddenly shifting gears, I'm finding there's a real dearth of information as easily obtained on the life of the officer as compared to the private. Maybe it's because officers in the hobby have been around long enough that this stuff sort of seeps in over time. I do feel I'm fast-forwarding into pretty unknown territory. Some close to me say I'm putting too much effort into it, as the others in my SVR unit are pretty satisfied with whatever Pakistan is producing. I figure those of us with ancestors from the war have a greater obligation than others to get it right as much as possible. Thus, I'm striving to get it right with regard to how to accurately portray an officer, and really playing catch up. There's no CRRC II (or even 1) to easily reference.

I'm not complaining; we're all responsible to research on our own (if this site has taught me anything, it's that), and I've only just begun to research. I'm figuring it out as I'm going along, but I'm just saying this to express that I'm somewhat surprised that I haven't really encountered the same level of attention and modern resources paid to the officer as I have toward the enlisted man. Obviously, with way more 'Indians' than 'Chiefs', one would expect that research would mostly benefit the many, not the few. Just saying.

Respectfully,

[rebjeb04]

Hello,

I second what Mr. Cross has said on the M-1850 foot swords. If you are patient enough and have an ebay account you can pick up a Klingenthal or other French import of the 1850 foot sword, with rayskin covered handle, NO SCABBARD, etc. for 300-350.00 or so, given the condition. Sword Restoration Services "the guy" can custom fit a repro scabbard to fit your blade. However, you have to send him the sword for the fitting. I would'nt suggest taking a contemporary scabbard into the field. OR you can buy the standard Legendary Arms stuff and get half the quality. Just like these men have expressed in this and many other similar threads, Legendary Arms is just "better junk". If you do go this route and have it "de-farbed", i.e. recovering the handle, removing INDIA, etc. over time and hard use you might get the look down pretty good. A fellow in the Trans-Miss. Rifles carries one of these you would bet was real, but heck after 20 years in the hobby and 20 repairs it might as well be!

Good Luck

[DougCooper]

If you simply put the word "swords" into the search engine here you will see a boat load of threads on the subject.

But to condense it, in my opinion it comes down to:

1. An original with original scabbard or repro scabbard by SRS (see below), with cleanup/repair by SRS.

2. Ordnance Park made (defunct mid 80's but some still floating around). My 1850 and 1840 arty are the closest things to originals in size, weight and balance I have seen on the repro side.

3. Typical foreign repro but again you can get help from SRS.

SRS website: http://www.cds1.net/~nardi/swords/index.htm

[David Fox]

The question was asked in this thread about a run of Confederate officers' swords which appeared in the 1970s. I was taken-in by an alleged Boyle & Gamble foot officer's sword in the early '70s, sold at an antique show in Greenville, S.C. No grip, no scabbard, and looked rather like it had been in a fire. Found out soon thereafter it was made in Spain last Thursday, so to speak, one of a lot supposedly shipped over here in brine barrels to age and patina. Did get my money back.
Then to prove I'm close to a complete twit, I was taken-in by an alleged Nashville Plow Works sabre at a gunshop in Bristol, Virginia soon after. Knew the grip was wrong (rationalized it was rewrapped). What fooled me was the scabbard. Still have that puppy, an ongoing lesson that if it's for sale at a quarter an original's fair market value, it's probably overpriced. Must be a chance of these Boyle & Gambles, Nashville Plow Works, Kennanvilles, and perhaps other 1970s fakes out there. With a little work on the grips and mayhap addition of a scabbard, they'd make excellent reenactor pieces. As to "the guy from St. Louis" who sold them, I don't recall he attempted fraud, but these blades soon got into the market like well made belt plate repros, trapping the unwary and ignorant like, uh, me.
The early 1970s was also the hay-day of an outfit called the "CSS Alabama, Ltd". They purported to have found that famous ship and to have salvaged it. Their ads in "The Shotgun News" issues of the day made ones mouth water, mixing genuine artifacts, mostly British made, with profoundly questionable oddments and extraordinary fantasy belt plates (C.S. Marine Corps and the like). I still see the latter floating around current gunshows.

[Joe Walker]

I agree. Those centenial swords are out there purported to be original. Some have original parts/scabbards. One friend used a "black light" to help determine if it is makeshift parts sword by different shades under the light. Seems like those NPWs are the most faked. With some salt water and amonia, the patina comes right up.

Joe Walker
Waco Guards

[Justin Morris]

I purchased an original 1850 Foot Officer's sword at the Nashville Civil War show (thanks to my friend Tim Prince) for I think $300. I sent it off to Tom Nardi, and he wrapped the handle and made a scabbard for around $180. In my opinion, save your money and get an original. Its worth the wait and they are out there. I just wish I had not sold mine!

Justin

[WILSONCREEK61]

If someone has already posted this, I apologize, But have you tried ebay on this item? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=350120796957&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=022

[mtvernon]

If you simply put the word "swords" into the search engine here you will see a boat load of threads on the subject.

I'm well acquainted with the search function here. I read every post I could find here on the subject. However, nothing addressed my specific question to my satisfaction, so I asked. I don't mean to cross swords (if you'll allow the pun), but I'm no newbie here. I don't open my e-mouth until I've exhausted all other options.

On the other hand, typing 'SRS' into the search engine yields nothing, so thanks for providing some information heretofore unknown to me or the current forum. I'm glad I asked!

Your Obedient Servant,