Walking Sticks

[bonniegreenflag]

In the Alfred Waud sketch mentioned in the knapsack Vs. blanketroll thread by Mr. Wright, there are two ex-infantrymen with walking sticks. I am assuming that these are just normal soldiers and not old or rich fellows! As I am an artilleryman and therefore not held down my a muskett(like the men in the sketch), would carrying a walking stick be correct? It is possible that they are injured. I think I might have seen walking sticks in other sketches.

[markj]

Hi,

Look at the bottom image on the attachment below, which was taken of Confederate POW's at the Chattanooga Rail Depot circa 1864. Sure looks like the guy with his back turned to the camera, and with a bag hanging from his belt, has a walking stick.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[bonniegreenflag]

Thanks for the pic Mark. It certainly makes sense that only POW's would have walking sticks sense otherwise they would have to tote musketts. Does anyone know of any documentation reagrding artillrymen using them? There is the pic of two escaped fed Lt.'s carrying them. They would be useful items in rough or wooded terain. perhaps even to ward off the occasional plantation dog?

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kamerad!

"It certainly makes sense that only POW's would have walking sticks sense otherwise they would have to tote musketts."

???

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[kemper_rifles]

Hallo Kamerad!

"It certainly makes sense that only POW's would have walking sticks sense otherwise they would have to tote musketts."

???

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

I think he means that it makes sense that POW's would have walkings sticks, because it would be rediculous for their captors to allow them to have muskets. Walking through sticks using walking sticks, I reckon.

[MassVOL]

In the above photo it looks more like a crutch to me. Just my two cents though.

p.s. It also looks like the tail end of the second one is next to his right boot.

[hendrickms24]

Does anyone know of any documentation reagrding artillrymen using them?


One of my many hobbies is backpacking and I still don't understand why anyone would want to use a walking stick. The only thing a walking stick does is make you expend more energy and add unnecessary weight for you to carry.
The only thing you will get out of having a walking stick is blisters on your hands. I really don't think any soldier in there right mind would us a walking stick during forced marches.


That just my two cents,
Mark

[2RIVB]

I would agree. Walking sticks are more of a bruden. In all the hiking and backpacking I have done, walking sticks only got thrown into the woods after about the first 5 minutes. If they lasted the whole hike, they ended up in the fire. I don't think any smart trooper would carry a walking stick, hell, he may have even had some comfort in being a POW, in that he didn't have the burden of his rifle anymore.

[RelicRoomGuy]

Our collection includes a number of postwar walking sticks - making them from gun carriages, flag staff fragments, or something else with "souvenir" significance was popular. None were carried during the war - but picking up a stick and walking with it is pretty deep in our genes, whether or not it makes much sense (please don't reference Freud here...) and walking sticks were certainly a well-established civilian habit among some segments of society. Perhaps more a habit to be indulged, an "accessory" reminding one of more peaceful times, than an actual aid to the soldiers...

Tell you what, though, I was on some marches years ago in Basic with tendonitus in my ankles, and a stick would have lessened the misery a bit. Ditto for blisters, minor sprains and such. I would think a soldier with a stick would have a foot or leg problem, an upperclass civilian habit of carrying a stick already, or maybe just a little bit of pretentiousness about him...

One of the last and most deliberate Victorians (GK Chesterton, a Brit) wrote an essay in his "What's Wrong With The World" in which he discussed the civilian walking-stick habit, and his observation that men often forgot their umbrellas in the "umbrella stand" while visiting but never their sticks.

"The stick is not merely a sword, but a court sword; it is a thing of purely ceremonial swagger. One cannot express the emotion in any way except by saming that a man feels more like a man with a stick in his hand....An umbrella is a necessary evil. A walking stick is a quite unnecessary good....it is missed even when it is not needed. When my right hand forgets its stick may it forget its cunning. But anybody may forget an umbrella....Anybody can forget a necessary thing."

This quote is British and from a later period but captures nicely, I think, the Victorian stick-as-accessory attitude. A man with this level of attachment to carrying a "walking stick" from civilian life might well retain the habit when practical in the Army.

[Masked Battery]

Having grown up around rural Southerners of past generations, I can relate that walking sticks were favored by them when "knocking around" in the woods. Granted, these were not true Johnny Rebs, but they were their direct descendants, and I wouldn't think that the advent of the use of the walking stick was a post-war occurence.

Just my opinion.

Neal

[SparksBird]

I think that some good points have been brought up about walking sticks. Yes, they would have been a burden for a soldier to carry, and could have been a necessity for a wounded man. However, I would simply go back to the original pictures you have seen. What is the context of them using a walking stick, and how common does it appear to be? Based upon the cases brought up so far, I would say that you might want to examine some more pictures before you decide to carry one as an artilleryman. Thats my two cents.

Rick Musselman
Buckeye Mess
GHTI

[bonniegreenflag]

Thanks for the info, I did not expect such a good response.To aleviate any misunderstandings, I ment that since POWs would not have been carrying arms(:) they might have picked up a walking stick. The only pictures with walking sticks I have seen have been of POWs. I have not seen any Federal troops or CS artillerymen carrying them. Does anyone know of a soldier mentioning them in a letter/memoir? I have been unable to find one as of yet. Although I will probably continue to research this topic, I dont think it would be appropriate to add one to my impression unless I happen to be portraying a POW. Another small item, what is the most appropriate term for POW? Should I just call them "prisoners?"

[Vuhginyuh]

When Sgt. Richard B. Parker, Co A 27th NC Troops arrived home to rural Wayne County in June 1865, he was using a long Mulberry walking stick.

I have to say that I think the domestic use of walking sticks is strictly regional and hard to pin to war time use. They were quite common in this area and had many uses from balance in rolling terrain to using their length to judge the height and fall of a tree when cruising timber. Steadying a hunting rifle with a stick was widespread here too. I have no written documentation of the use of walking sticks or staffs in war time and I suggest none.

I do think it is unreasonable to discount a period civilian practice because certain modern hikers and backpackers don't like them today.

I will edit in an image of the R. B. Parker stick today. I’m moving a bit slow right now but I will get it in.

[Dignann]

Andrew,

A quick search of the Official Records... reveals the use of the term "prisoner of war," but does not turn up any use of the abbreviation "POW."

Eric

[2RIVB]

I think we should also remember that a civilian habbit is just that, a civilian habbit. What one would do or carry at home, or walking down a street or country lane is much different than what a person would have with them on campaign. civilian preference may just not be practical in military life. A modern backpacker Common sense is common sense, and if it doesn't work well today, chances are it may not have worked well then. I think a person of the 1860s would have found a walking stick just as troublesome, on a tough trail, as a person of today would.

[Vuhginyuh]

I think we should also remember that a civilian habbit is just that, a civilian habbit. What one would do or carry at home, or walking down a street or country lane is much different than what a person would have with them on campaign. civilian preference may just not be practical in military life. A modern backpacker Common sense is common sense, and if it doesn't work well today, chances are it may not have worked well then. I think a person of the 1860s would have found a walking stick just as troublesome, on a tough trail, as a person of today would.



Read post # 9, 10, 11 & 13 carefully. None mention specific war-time use by a soldier. Tread carefully when using modern comparisons as well.

[2RIVB]

Last I knew, people have been walking for a while. Common sense is common sense. If it is cumbersome now, it was cumbersome then. I don't think this is as much a conversation on modernisms as it is on the use of an impliment that has probably been around since before recorded time. I also don't think that it would be common practice for someone guarding a prisoner to go let them wander off or take them for a walk to find an appropriate stick to use as a walking stick. I am not trying to justify the use of non period equipment by the old phrase, "if they had had it, they would have used it." I am stating that we can use a little insight to see when an itme might be consider more troublesome than it was worth.

[dusty27]

Josh, your last two posts seem to be based on modern thinking and little factual information.

The fact is that people walked infinitely more in the 19th century than we do in the 21st century. Comparing behavior between periods should be done with great care. Also, photography in the 19th century didn't capture motion like those of today, so pictures of people USING walking sticks probably don't exist.

My educated guess would be that the sticks that are pictured in prisoner photos would have been used as a crutch or at least an aid to walking based on an injury. The idea of a stick replacing a weapon for a prisoner seems a stretch.

[2RIVB]

I am personaly going by my "educated guess" that walking stick would have been more trouble than they are worth, especially moving over tough terrain. The use of a stick as a crutch is a whole different topic, in my opinion. I feel there is little evidence to document either of our points, so I feel this is more a a speculative debate. By the evidence availible, there are far less images of troops with sticks than there are without. Like I have stated before, if it is cumbersome today, it would have been cumbersome then, especially over rough terrain. (I am assuming your post was from the standpoint of a forum user, rather than a moderator in this instance, if I am wrong, please correct me)

[Masked Battery]

From a letter written by B.T. Cotton (34th NC) on 4/16/1863:

"Jason Russell is in the 28th Regiment hopping about with a stick. I don't think he will do the Confederacy much good."

This letter was published in "The Cry is War, War, War" edited by Michael W. Taylor.

[Curt-Heinrich Schmidt]

Hallo Kameraden!

This has drifted off from being a "scholarly" topic...

There are several accounts of early settlers to Connecticut's Western Reserve (portions of eastern Ohio) having walked her FROM Connecticut.

The use of "walking sticks" among modern hikers and trekkers is quite common, and have evolved to models that telescope for adjustment and storage.

I have trekked sections of the Appalachian Trail, as well as the German and Austrian Alps using one and sometimes even two walking sticks for balance and support, on trails as well as on uneven ground and mountainous terrain.

None of that is relevent to the topic here.

Where this thead should be going is into the realm of research looking into period documentation FOR or AGAINST the use of walking sticks by soldiers.
A second thread would possibly be on the PECness of one or the other.

Please consider referring to the "How To Research" guides here on the Forum for how to take an idea or notion and turn it into a statement of belief, a hypothesis, and then research and document to support or deny it.

While "guesses" can be educated and even correct, they are not what the AC Forum strives to encourage or supports.

What does the historical record say about this?

Curt-Heinrich Schmidt

[bonniegreenflag]

Curt-Im actually inclined to agree with you as I am unable to find much documention on the subject. I have only found four images featuring walking sticks, all of whom were of Confederate prisoners who were possibly wounded. I found quite a few mentionings of "crutches" in the Official Records being used for medical reasons. I dont know if cruthces could refer to walking sticks, but I doubt it sense all of the records were of Federal officers. I turned up alot of responses in the records though and am not done looking. I have been unable to locate any metioning of walking sticks in any correspondance, Confederate or Federal, excepting those posted on this thread. Maby I have found a dead end?

[Vuhginyuh]

When Sgt. Richard B. Parker, Co A 27th NC Troops arrived home to rural Wayne County in June 1865, he was using a long Mulberry walking stick.

I have to say that I think the domestic use of walking sticks is strictly regional and hard to pin to war time use. They were quite common in this area and had many uses from balance in rolling terrain to using their length to judge the height and fall of a tree when cruising timber. Steadying a hunting rifle with a stick was widespread here too. I have no written documentation of the use of walking sticks or staffs in war time and I suggest none.

I do think it is unreasonable to discount a period civilian practice because certain modern hikers and backpackers don't like them today.



R. B. Parker's walking stick edited in. The stick is exactly 51 inches long and is believed to be Mulberry.

[MassVOL]

I found quite a few mentionings of "crutches" in the Official Records being used for medical reasons. I dont know if cruthces could refer to walking sticks, but I doubt it sense all of the records were of Federal officers. I turned up alot of responses in the records though and am not done looking. I have been unable to locate any metioning of walking sticks in any correspondance, Confederate or Federal, excepting those posted on this thread. Maby I have found a dead end?

Andrew in your search of the records did you try swagger stick? You might find something using that term instead.

[RelicRoomGuy]

An interesting thing about the photos of POW's with walking sticks: it certainly shows (in these specific cases!) a "loose hand" in the treatment of POW's (if these aren't needed for medical reasons - which they might be). A stick can be, after all, a very serviceable weapon - as was proved on the floor of Congress in one particularly spectacular case...it certainly seems counterintuitive to "arm" POWs, even lightly. Apparently the captors do not find the walking sticks extraordinary or they would not be permitted. Is that because they're PEC items or because of individuals' wounds or physical condition? (Not a rhetorical question. I don't know.)

An antebellum militia sword manual for South Carolinians recommends cultivating the habit of carrying a stick in civilian life, under the theory that the constant handling of a stick somehow translates into a superior feel for swordplay. That, however, is anything but PEC, and certainly wouldn't affect uniformed behavior in any case! I just mention it as a curiousity.

[hendrickms24]

An interesting thing about the photos of POW's with walking sticks: it certainly shows (in these specific cases!) a "loose hand" in the treatment of POW's (if these aren't needed for medical reasons - which they might be). A stick can be, after all, a very serviceable weapon - as was proved on the floor of Congress in one particularly spectacular case...it certainly seems counterintuitive to "arm" POWs, even lightly. .


I think that the photo with the Confederate POW that has a walking stick is really a union soldier with a rifle. Look closely and you will see that a bayonet scabbard sticking out from the bottom of his haversack. That Walking stick is not a walking stick it’s a rifle. If you look there some lighter parts of the so called stick which is light reflecting the lock and hammer.


Mark

[dave81276]

Thank you, Mark! I thought I was crazy 'cause I repeatedly scruitinized the fellow and he looked like a Union soldier with a rifle to me. Now I can rest easy in the delusion that I'm not mad as a hatter.

Dave Eggleston

[bonniegreenflag]

I agree. Now Im down to three pictures. :confused_