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Milliron
07-17-2011, 06:55 PM
is 100-102 degrees. :omg_smile:omg_smile. This would seem to me (who has been to many hot events, but few, if any, this hot) that extra precautions are in order.

Any docs/EMTs have any suggestions beyond drinking as much water as you can get your hands on?

pvt_dirty
07-17-2011, 07:15 PM
Hey pards, As being a heat stroke victim before in my days with the 82nd Airborne infantry. Drink Drink drink water but also know you can over drink which can cause similar syptoms as a heat stroke. This week prior to the event on your ride home from work or during the day step away from the AC and let your body get used to the heat. Also make sure your sodium intake is higher then normal so your body retains water. Also never put ice on top of your head then put your hat back on this could cause your body to go into shock.
When I had my heat stroke at Ft Bragg I was on a 15 mile road march drank plenty of water the day before and during the march, I felt fine all the way, then 40 yards from the finish line I colasped and had a (108 temp) next thing I remember is waking up in the hospital.
Just my 2 cents.
See yall there.
Tyler Goodrich

Jimmayo
07-17-2011, 08:18 PM
Put one of the chemical activated ice packs in your haversack. Yea I know it's not authentic but you may need it in a hurry. It was hot at the 125th and the pass out rate from the heat was pretty high. There will be many weekday desk jockeys trying to be a soldier that weekend in temperatures they are unaccustom to. Its gonna be messy.

slrebad
07-17-2011, 08:24 PM
Where does one pick up some of those chemical activated ice packs.
Thank You,
Bill Feuchtenberger
Co.H
1st South Carolina Volunteers

dixieflyer
07-17-2011, 08:44 PM
xxxxxxxxxx

Justin Runyon
07-17-2011, 09:10 PM
Let keep to accurate solutions when posting on this board. Take Tyler's advice, it's sound and it's period. If you choose to take modern alternatives to the event, I can't stop ya and I won't even gripe about it, that's every man's personal choice...but keep it off the AC.

MickCole
07-17-2011, 09:25 PM
In addition to keeping well-hydrated, it is important to keep your electrotes in balance. A period alternative to things like Gatorade is to snack on an occasional pickle.
Thomas Jefferson, who was well-acquainted with Virginia summers is reputed to have said: "On a hot day in Virginia, I know nothing more comforting than a fine spiced pickle, brought up trout-like from the sparkling depths of the aromatic jar below the stairs of Aunt Sally's cellar."
Mick Cole
42nd VA Co E

dixieflyer
07-17-2011, 10:35 PM
Apologies Justin. Pickles ARE good, and the vinegar used in the process is one thing that helps. When I was working on a living history farm, the women folk would fix some kind of "cold salad" whose name I cannot remember, but it consisted of chopped veggies like onions, cucumbers, etc. in vinegar. the consistency was really more of a soup or stew than a "salad", but that was the old name for it. In any event, those on the staff who possessed the knowledge explained to me then why vinegar was good for you when working in the heat. I have since forgotten the science behind it, but the lesson remained. Any period intake of vinegar is pretty good for you whether in pickles as Mick pointed out or in some other form, but it is in addition to water.

Wish I could remember the name of that dish. I know Daryl Black remembers eating it. Daryl?

Dale Beasley
07-17-2011, 11:08 PM
I was thinking today, cucumbers and apples, with a dash of salt.

Becky Morgan
07-17-2011, 11:16 PM
It might be prudent for some of the civilians to bring ice in suitable containers. There are several correct means by which I can imagine an easy transfer thereof, especially if someone appears to be in need. It might be good to arrange a signal (if there isn't one in place) to allow someone to take a hit and be assisted off the field to a cooler spot or be sent back to a shady spot as a messenger if the matter isn't urgent enough for more serious medical attention. In these conditions, no one should be shy about a prudent retreat to fight another day (or even another hour).

Heat like this is not to be trifled with and was a very serious concern even in the period when people were acclimated to ordinary summer weather. The Original Cast had no choice, of course, but they also weren't expected to be back at a desk job halfway across the country on Monday.

YankeeTiger
07-18-2011, 12:26 AM
Luckily both days' scenarios should be over by 11am (with a "start" time of 9am) so what we all do in our "off time" will be what makes or breaks you. I work at the Weather Channel here in Atlanta and will try to nail down exact temps w/ humidity levels,etc on Wed. But truth be told (sssh don't tell anyone) we are usually acurate (and I use that term loosely) within 24 hours w/ 48 hours pushing it....either way it'll obviously hot, but, again, the "off scenario" hours are when everyone will have to make wise decisions. There are chances for a few scattered tstorms Saturday and most likely 1 or 2 on Sunday..that can either cool it down a tad OR turn it into a giant sauna...we'll see

hireddutchcutthroat
07-18-2011, 03:10 AM
I have an outdoor job and am used to working in all kinds of weather. I highly recommend steering clear of ice, and drinking cool not cold water.

Johnny Lloyd
07-18-2011, 09:19 AM
From being in Iraq in actual combat for 14 months, I can safely say:

1) Hydrate constantly (know if you are overdoing it, though)
2) Cool water is best. Cold water on occasion and in smaller quantities.
3) Know how much you sweat- I am one to heavily sweat. I need just about a little more water than your average man. You might need so if you are like me also.
4) Use some vinegar in some form as an electrolyte. Don't overdo this either.
5) A damp cloth is a good friend.
6) EXPECT DISCOMFORT. Being a real soldier in a hot warzone is hard and VERY uncomfortable. I know this from Iraq where temps got up to 120 degrees F routinely and mission didn't stop. You will get but a small potential taste of such conditions (other than bullets) this weekend.
7) Your body is used to going in and out of air conditioning and comforts of modern day life- 150 years ago, people were not. Know your limits. Know your comrade's limits. Check each other constantly for symptoms of heat injury. Found here: http://www.thestretchinghandbook.com/archives/heat-injuries.php
8) Identify EMT/First Responders/Combat Medically-trained personnel in your group and know where they might be in case a you or a comrade falls ill.
9) Don't get carried away with the fun to get unsafe. If you see a person doing something unsafe, thell them nicely to stand down and regain his military bearing. Report safety violations to your NCOs and make the chain-of-command work as it is supposed to.

WE ARE ALL SAFETY OFFICERS- KNOW YOUR PART.

All the best- Johnny Lloyd

dirtyshirt
07-18-2011, 09:38 AM
All great points fellas (and Ladies). Beck brought up a good point, that if you feel like you're on the brink of becoming a heat casualty, please don't push it. Just step to the side and take a knee and catch your breath. To Tyler's point, it only takes a second to cross that point of no return.

Weather here in Iowa has been over 100 degrees the last 3 days, and will continue to be so until Thursday. Humidity has been over 80%. I spent as much time as I could outside this weekend, and will be doing the same until we depart for VA on Thursday. Hopefully it won't be AS humid next weekend in VA. Take care of yourselves!

Dale Beasley
07-18-2011, 09:52 AM
With all the points that Johnny made in the above post, another thing we learned in Iraq was watch your skin and the color of your urine. Those two things will give you an early warning.

GreencoatCross
07-18-2011, 10:19 AM
While I work indoors without air conditioning, I am not very accustomed to being outdoors in temperatures or humidity as high as predicted for Manassas. I've been to hot, humid, stagnant-air events but nothing quite like this may be. I'm bringing a bottle or spare canteen of concentrated swichel which is vinegar, molasses, some sugar, and ginger, which can be diluted with water for a really thirst-quenching drink. Of course excellent, common sense suggestions have been shared but this is another in-period suggestion that you might try.

Eric Fair
07-18-2011, 10:23 AM
The only thing that I would add here is that if you haven't already started, you should be drinking water now. Try to bring a sports bottle with you to work or something similar and down it. If you try to "catch up" at the event, you'll have problems.

And, as others have said, if you're stuck at a desk job or indoors, try to at least go out at lunch or after work and take a brisk walk at least once a day - get your body used to working in the heat.

LibertyHallVols
07-18-2011, 10:29 AM
6) EXPECT DISCOMFORT. Being a real soldier in a hot warzone is hard and VERY uncomfortable. I know this from Iraq where temps got up to 120 degrees F routinely and mission didn't stop. You will get but a small potential taste of such conditions (other than bullets) this weekend.


Good point, Johnny!

Pat Landrum's Vicksburg NPS LH event in 2007 was one of the best events I've ever attended. It was hot. It was humid. The chiggers were mean. The commissary served rat. Yeah, I was uncomfortable... to the extreme. But I was not sick. I did not become a heat casualty. We all need to know the difference between being sick from the heat and when you're just sick of being uncomfortable.

- I encourage all in the former category to let his pards and NCOs know ASAP.
- However, I would encourage all in the latter category to stick it out. Its late July in Virginia... you knew it would be hot. You will be with your pards in the first large event of the 150's. Embrace the suck!

VIVA LA SUCK!!!

GrumpyDave
07-18-2011, 10:40 AM
If you didn't start any of these suggestions last week, it's too late.

teufelhund
07-18-2011, 11:08 AM
Another period correct "energy drink" is to mix some apple cider vinegar and honey with water. It is actually very tasty.

Milliron
07-18-2011, 11:11 AM
Good point, Johnny!

Pat Landrum's Vicksburg NPS LH event in 2007 was one of the best events I've ever attended. It was hot. It was humid. The chiggers were mean. The commissary served rat. Yeah, I was uncomfortable... to the extreme. But I was not sick. I did not become a heat casualty. We all need to know the difference between being sick from the heat and when you're just sick of being uncomfortable.

- I encourage all in the former category to let his pards and NCOs know ASAP.
- However, I would encourage all in the latter category to stick it out. Its late July in Virginia... you knew it would be hot. You will be with your pards in the first large event of the 150's. Embrace the suck!

VIVA LA SUCK!!!

It must be time to break this out:

http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii72/Muehleisen/poster3971.jpg

ohpkirk
07-18-2011, 11:52 AM
I'm not attending the event, and haven't followed this thread, but coming from a part of the country that has been in triple digits since late March I have some experience with events of this nature. The three biggest tips/hints/whathaveyou are:

Drink water even if you aren't thirsty, don't down a canteen...small sips every now and then.

Eat small meals of light food. I would recommend cooking your rations the first night and eating throughout the day.

If you feel yourself getting overheated and have access to ice (no matter how you paint it, this is still a circus. There will be someone around with a cooler of ice) take a cube of ice and put it on the jugular vein on your neck. This will cool your body off very quickly. I've done it in the past while building fences in 106+ weather with no ill effects.

Though if you are this worried about the heat, it is a pretty good indication that you haven't been acclimating yourself prior to the event.

lwtaggart
07-18-2011, 11:56 AM
A very goiod means to quickly hydrate the body is watermelon. Not only the hydration effect but, it serves as a detox from things like caffeine and alcohol. Packed with vitamin C and licopene. Can be kept at room temperature. Also period correct and in seasson right now.

George Taggart

Huck
07-18-2011, 12:00 PM
So I take it, we should swipe a watermelon or two from the officers mess?

lwtaggart
07-18-2011, 12:09 PM
Whatever it takes Huck! For some it will make the diffence at the end of the day.

George Taggart

Hank Trent
07-18-2011, 01:08 PM
Not going myself, but I'll just add a suggestion:

Actually calculate the amount of electrolytes you're getting. Look on the bottle of vinegar or molasses or the jar of pickles, if that's your go-to source, and see how many milligrams per serving it has of actual sodium or potassium (the top two, but read some medical discussions for marathoners and ultra runners to find out more about minor ones). Estimate how many servings you'll be consuming and multiply. Look up the recommended amount you need for exercise in the heat. It'll be in the thousands of miligrams, well over 3K a day for both. I planned my diet for In the Van to include over 5K of each a day.

The difference in the amount depending on the exact product may be huge.

I mail-ordered Wholesome Sweeteners molasses because it has 740 mg potassium per tablespoon, while Grandma's brand at the local store has less than a quarter of that. If that would be your main source of potassium, for example, the difference between the guy next to you getting 4000 mg a day and you getting 1000 mg a day is going to make all the difference in whether you're keeping ahead of the electrolytes you're sweating out. The bottle of store-bought apple cider vinegar sitting in my cupboard here has 0, count 'em, 0 electrolytes. Maybe y'all have a source of vinegar that supplies some, but that doesn't mean the guy who grabs a bottle off the shelf will get the same amount.

Gambling that the placebo effect will work isn't worth it.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com