Baseball

[hardtack61]

pards,

My filemates and I were discussing whether or not baseball would have been played much in camp. We got on the conversation because we want to start playing a few games during a living history or something like that but first i told them i would ask around for authentisity reasons.. Any ideas.. like mits or bats? Any info would help.
Thanks

[Sweatshop_Tailor]

There is a great new book out on the subject which also deals to some extent with different baseball rule sets of the time: George B. Kirsch (2003) Baseball in Blue & Gray: the National Pastime during the Civil War. Princeton.

Authentic baseballs can be had (or at least could be had) via the Jersey Skillet Licker (not sure if any are currently in stock or not). He also sells bats, but frankly you can get a much more period bat simply by shopping e-bay long enough -- but expect to pay in the $50 - $100 price range. I got a lovely bat of 19th century dimensions & shape off of there that our mess uses.

There are some good accounts of baseball amongst Federals prior to and during the Red River campaign. I have them written down in a notebook somewhere. I will try to find them and post them.

Good luck! Playing ball can be a great firper experience!

Regards,
KC MacDonald
Lazy Jacks Mess
http://www.lazyjacks.org.uk/

[Sweatshop_Tailor]

The following is from the memoirs of George Haven Putnam (of the 176th New York Infantry) written of an incident in Alexandria, Louisiana in 1864.
George Haven Putnam (1914) Memories of My Youth 1844-1865. New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons. (pg.305)

We were winning a really beautiful game from the 13th Conn., a game in which our pickets, who were the only spectators, found themselves much interested. Suddenly there came a scattering fire of which the three fielders caught the brunt: the centre field was hit and was captured, the left and right fields managed to get into our lines. Our pickets fell forwards with all possible promptness as the players fell back. The Rebel attack, which was made by merely a skirmish line, was repelled without serious difficulty, but we had lost not only our centre field but our baseball and it was the only baseball in Alexandria.

[DougCooper]

One of my singular memories of this hobby was a baseball game at the Southern Guard Bentonville event in 1999. We had all the fun, competition and even injuries one might expect in the real deal.

Thanks for the vignette KC! Serious ball players those boys were...and it gives new meaning to the phrase "game called due to loss of the ball."

[Masked Battery]

As the the man who broke his collarbone in the aforementioned game, I can say that this certainly is one of my 'singular memories.' Thanks again to messrs. Daley, Stillwagon, and Graham for taking me to the "field hospital."

Neal

[DougCooper]

Neal you displayed all the grit of an original soldier not wanting to make a fuss that day...true dedication to the National Pastime and Living History above and beyond the call of duty!

[Masked Battery]

Thanks, Doug. I'm rewarded with the fact that I can truthfully say "I was wounded at Bentonville on March 20th." I just don't remind myself about the "1999" part.

Neal

[Jack Booda]

Mr. Kirsch's book is available and the first chapter can be viewed at the following site.

http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/7497.html

[MassVOL]

Mr. Kirsch's book is available and the first chapter can be viewed at the following site.

http://pup.princeton.edu/titles/7497.html

Jack's post gives us a pretty good idea that it was played. I got this from the Baseball Almanac if any one is interested:

The Rules of the Massachusetts Game

by The Massachusetts Association of Base Ball Players
May 13, 1858
1. The Ball must weigh not less than two, nor more than two and three-quarters ounces, avoirdupois. It must measure not less than six and a half, nor more than eight and a half inches in circumference, and must be covered with leather.

2. The Bat must be round, and must not exceed two and a half inches in diameter in the thickest part. It must be made of wood, and may be of any length to suit the Striker.

3. Four Bases or Bounds shall constitute a round; the distance from each base shall be sixty feet.

4. The bases shall be wooden stakes, projecting four feet from the ground.

5. The Striker shall stand inside of a space of four feet in diameter, at equal distance between the first and fourth Bases.

6. The Thrower shall stand thirty-five feet from and on a parallel line with the Striker.

7. The Catcher shall not enter within the space occupied by the Striker, and must remain upon his feet in all cases while catching the Ball.

8. The Ball must be thrown - not pitched or tossed - to the Bat, on the side preferred by the Striker, and within reach of his Bat.

9. The ball must be caught flying in all cases.

10. Players must take their knocks in the order in which they are numbered; and after the first inning is played, the turn will commence with the player succeeding the one who lost on the previous inning.

11. The Ball being struck at three times and missed, and caught each time by a player on the opposite side, the Striker shall be considered out. Or, if the Ball be ticked or knocked, and caught on the opposite side, the Striker shall be considered out. But if the ball is not caught after being struck at three times, it shall be considered a knock, and the Striker obliged to run.

12. Should the Striker stand at the Bat without striking at good balls thrown repeatedly at him, for the apparent purpose of delaying the game, or of giving advantage to players, the referees, after warning him, shall call one strike, and if he persists in such action, two and three strikes; when three strikes are called, he shall be subject to the same rules as if he struck at three fair balls.

13. A player, having possession of the first Base, when the Ball is struck by the succeeding player, must vacate the Base, even at the risk of being put out; and when two players get on one Base, either by accident or otherwise, the player who arrived last is entitled to the Base.

14. If a player, while running the Bases, be hit with the Ball thrown by one of the opposite side, before he has touched the home bound, while off a Base, he shall be considered out.

15. A player, after running the four Bases, on making the home bound, shall be entitled to one tally.

16. In playing all match games, when one is out, the side shall be considered out.

17. In playing all match games, one hundred tallies shall constitute the game, the making of which by either Club, that Club shall be judged the winner.

18. Not less than ten nor more than fourteen players from each Club, shall constitute a match in all games.

19. A person engaged on either side, shall not withdraw during the progress of the match, unless he be disabled, or by the consent of the opposite party.

20. The Referees shall be chosen as follows: One from each Club, who shall agree upon a third made from some Club belonging to this Association, if possible. Their decision shall be final, and binding upon both parties.

21. The Tallymen shall be chosen in the same manner as the Referees

[rebyank]

Pard,
One of my units is an engineers unit, and we love to play ball. Instead of buying an expencive repo or original bat, we just slide the handle out of a pickaxe and use that, it works great!
We were playing ball at an event last year, and our capt. had made prior arrangements with a cs unit to attack us midway through the game, and had arranged with one of the men for him to take a hit when they attacked. Needless to say, murphys law played out wonderfully, and the man to take a hit was in the out field catching the ball when the rebs attacked. He didn't get to throw the ball before flopping on the ground, shortly thereafter, someone shouted out, "Save the ball, it's the only one we've got!"

This still gets talked about at every drill we have.

[Cpl A.J.]

As it happens, a guy in my unit (27th CVI) is a supplier of 19th-century baseball uniformas and equipment. He's been a uniform sutler for years, but his baseball business has nearly supplanted his CW business.

Here's his Web site:

http://members.aol.com/kpweaver/

A.J.

[DougCooper]

That was the one we invoked when Neal broke his wing at Bentonville...he was most assuredly disabled. One of the other funny things about that game had to do with a young spectator who wanted to play. At one point he was up to bat (striker) and we did not know his name. Chris Daley suddenly said: "Cmon kid from the future, get a hit."

[RyanBWeddle]

As the the man who broke his collarbone in the aforementioned game, I can say that this certainly is one of my 'singular memories.' Thanks again to messrs. Daley, Stillwagon, and Graham for taking me to the "field hospital."

Neal
I still love hearing Stillwagon's account of the ER room where Neal tried to stay in FIRPER with the nurses! :D

And don't forget Shoaf spraining his ankle on Bolivar Hgts two years prior!

SGLHA and Baseball seem to always cause injuries.

[SparksBird]

You might want to check out the Vintage Base Ball Association as well. They have some good information on vintage base ball tournaments, rules, resources, etc.. Here is the link: http://www.vbba.org/. They also have some good bulletins featuring articles on various base ball related subjects.

Rick Musselman
Buckeye Mess
GHTI

[hardtack61]

pards..

I thank you a great deal for your input.. youve answered every question ive had.. Thank you very much!! Your web sites are very helpful in finding even more info.

[JWolf]

One thing to keep in mind for batting is that batters did not hold their bats with their hands together like in modern baseball- most batters had a couple inches seperating their hands on the bat. With the "dead" balls there also wasn't much power hitting.

Some of the early rule sets prior/during the Civil War also made use of a one bounce out rule in addition to the traditional fly-out.

There's a number of rules differences between 1850s and 1870s baseball.

Jim Wolf

[clairemorris]

Intresting image on Ebay here in the UK...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=014&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=330084036775&rd=1&rd=1

Kind Regards

Claire Morris
69th New York (UK)

[maineman]

As a Member of the Vintage Base ball ( 2 words back then) Association, Umpire for the Dirigo 9 in Maine, not only base ball, but rounders and town ball was enjoyed in the field and in garrison. A lot of bruising in town ball since you were allowed to "tag" the runner "dead" by actually hitting him with a thrown ball.

[BobSullivanPress]

Go to the source. Complete rules for Baseball and the Massachusetts game.

http://www.sullivanpress.com/images/CivilImages/baseball.jpg

[sauguszouave]

I looked at the image on e-Bay and what impressed me the most was that there was absolutely nothing about the costume that was Zouave. The hat is not a chasseur's cap, the pants are not chasseur's or Zouave pants, and there is no vest, jacket or sash. I don't have Mark Rucker's book or the SABR references, so I'm curious if there is anything in them that actually documents the existence of a "Zouave" baseball team in Potsdam, NY.

I realize that lots of organizations used Zouave in their titles that didn't wear Zouave or chasseur uniforms, but a statement like, "The flamboyant marching band style uniforms so popular in the 1860’s reached their zenith in the Zouave outfits donned in emulation of Col. Elmer Ellsworth’s Civil War regiment of that name." would make me wonder if the author knew much about Zouaves or E. E. Ellsworth. When I think of flamboyant marching band style uniforms I think of high bearskin busbies, high stiff collars, white crossbelts, and tight pants with stripes down the side, a style of uniform very popular with militia companies during the war, but bearing no resemblance to the "Zouave" uniforms worn by either the U. S. Zouave Cadets or the 11th NYSVI. (The U. S. Zouave Cadets did, in fact, have a dress uniform that fit that description, but they were remembered for their chasseur uniforms, just like they were remembered for their Zouave drill even though they also did Scott's drill.) If the Zouave attribution in these baseball sources is based solely on the uniform, I think they've made a mistake.

Regards,

Paul Kenworthy

[Lone Guard]

As a Member of the Vintage Base ball ( 2 words back then) Association, Umpire for the Dirigo 9 in Maine, not only base ball, but rounders and town ball was enjoyed in the field and in garrison. A lot of bruising in town ball since you were allowed to "tag" the runner "dead" by actually hitting him with a thrown ball.

That's the way we used to play in gradeschool. You better not have an unfriendlly relationship with someone on the other team or you will be howling.

[maineman]

Your grade school didn't happen to have bars on the windows and concertina on top of the hurricane fence did it?

[Lone Guard]

Your grade school didn't happen to have bars on the windows and concertina on top of the hurricane fence did it?

No, it was a test to prove how "tough" we were. I can't remember one kid who didn't cry (this includes me).

Kind of feel bad for the new kids that just moved, they didn't have a clue.

[pvt. hardscrable]

At many events I attend there are baseball games arranged between 2 companies or regiments. We use metal plates as bases and gloves were not used.

[Rob Weaver]

One of our members carries a ball that we play catch and "baseball" of sorts with often. "The Boy's Book, circa 1825, has rules for rounders that are different from other rules that I've seen, including period rules for baseball such as those already cited. I suspect that it's perfectly legitimate for a pickup game of ball to have all kinds of irregularities, just as they do today: ie, bases not quite far enough (or too far), improvised balls and bats, etc. They were palying for amusement, not as professional or semi-professional clubs. We've used sticks for bats, and once the best we could do was a chunk of firewood. It was hard to land a hit but when you did, it was very satisfying!

[SouthernRifle]

I was at a mainstream event in Orange County, NY in October of 2004, where we played a yank vs. reb pick-up game of base ball. We were using a cloth covered ball, and a post from the breastworks as a bat. We were playing with the one out per side & peg the runner rules. The game was great. There were quite a few modern spectators as well as reenactors who were not up for taking theplaying field. Whenever the yanks got up, the confeds in the crowd would start heckling them. When the rebs got up, the yanks did the same to us. Unfortunately, our field was the battleground and was lined on one side by a marsh. Needless to say, about halfway through the game our ball went in the water. It was in so deep that it took a chain of six of us to get the thing out. I was the second to last guy in the chain, but somehow, I got covered in the most mud. That water was freezing.

Rob Weber
Co. D
3d Alabama

[Vicksburg Dave]

I found this in the Vicksburg Daily Herald, October 13, 1864:


"The club organized for the purpose of playing Base Ball will meet tonight at Wells' Officers' Club Rooms, at 7 1/2 o'clock. A full attendance is requested."

[billyreb61]

whenever me and my friends play, we don't use gloves and we play with a piece of stick we find in the woods. we also play with the rules already posted.