Bagpipes In the War

[FWL]

Dear Friends,
This discussion on bagpipes was moved from military discussion to the Homefront, as it contains some interesting information for the citizenry. It is being edited to preserve the civilian content. Any comments removed do not constitute a sanction from the moderators, but rather indicate that the content was not relevant to civilian use of bagpipes in the mid-century.

Regards,
Elizabeth Clark
Homefront Co-Moderator


In my recent readings I found this (presumably Christmas Day 1861) and though this may contribute:

"Seated near the fire was Johnny Flaherty, discoursing sweet music from his violin. Johnny hailed from Boston;was a musical genius,in his way, and though only 14 years of age,could play on the bagpipes,piano, and Heaven knows how many other instruments: beside him sat his father, fingering the chanters of a bagpipe in elegant stye. It is no wonder the that most of the regiment was gathered around there, for it was Christmas Eve, and home thoughts and home longings were crowding on the;....."

From pp77-78 Chapter 3 The Irish Brigade and Its Campaigns by Capt. David Power Conyngham first published 1867, recently published 1994 Fordham U. Press edited L.F. Kohl

In my winter 2003-04 readings of the Irish Brigade (mostly first hand accounts) I have found no evidence of "bagpipes" being used in any offical capacity ie dress parade, battle or even a funeral. The above account is the first one I have read. There is no evidence, even anecdotal, that would support the use of a bagpipe in a troop formation. However this account suggests the bagpipe may have occasionally been used around a camp fire on a special occasion in the AOP by soldiers of Celtic heritage.

Frank Lilley
28th Mass Vol. Co. K

[ThehosGendar]

"Seated near the fire was Johnny Flaherty, discoursing sweet music from his violin... beside him sat his father, fingering the chanters of a bagpipe in elegant stye..."

An Irish father and son from Boston, playing a Christmas set with fiddle and bagpipe? He's playing the Uilleann pipes.

The Irish pipes have been around since the 19th century, with an image of a chanter from a circa 1830s set on the Na Píobairí Uilleann website. There's also a circa 1880s set in the musical instrument section at the Met in New York.

This is one of the earlier images I've been able to find:
http://www.3nj.org/uilpipe.jpg

BUT

This is not evidence that they were used in the field during the Civil War. I think the price of even a mediocre set of pipes would make someone think twice about bringing a set out to an 'enactment, so it's probably a safe bet that we won't be seeing them around... although it would be pretty funny to see someone try to march with one strapped on.

[Greg Renault]

Or: border pipes, shuttle pipes, Northumbrian pipes, or even Irish war pipes (bagpipes). But most likely Uillean pipes, I agree. Maybe not so expensive then, as your basic chanter, bag and bellows require less skill to make than a fiddle. (It's the drones and regulators of the modern full set of Uillean pipes which empty your wallet.) The basic set takes up less space than a fiddle, is less fragile, and is easily transported. Note the the lack of drones and regulators on the pipes played by the "irish piper" in the image. But this is an instrument for civilian music, played sitting down.

Greg Renault

[markj]

For what it's worth, I did a little digging in the New York "Times" and these items immediately popped up:

‎25 September 1861 - Public notice announcing the opening of "[Lester] Wallack's Theater." ‎Under the program for "Musical Panorama of Broadway" you will see "3. Dodworth's Band with ‎Seventy-first [New York] Regiment. 4. Scottish bagpipes with Seventy-ninth [New York ‎Regiment]."‎

‎12 September 1862 - ANNUAL CELEBRATION OF THE CALEDONIAN CLUB.***"At the ‎sound of the bagpipe, the programme was commenced by the "Putting of the Heavy Stone," by ‎Mr. WM. LYONS, a stout-built, well-made man, who accomplished the feat with much ease.‎"

‎10 October 1863 - THE CALEDONIAN GAMES. AULD SCOTIA IN THE FIELD. Seventh ‎Annual Meeting of the New York Caledonian Club.***"Shortly after 10 o'clock, Pipers ‎CLELLAN and [PETER] BOWMAN paraded the ring, inspiring the multitude with the sweet ‎strains of their bag-pipes, reproducing the martial and fireside airs of old Scotland. ‎
‎ This prelude was succeeded by a grand old-fashioned Scottish reel, the members or clansmen of ‎the Club, preceded by the pipers, the officers and judges making the tour of the ring, and then ‎forming for the dance, which was rendered with indescribable spirit among the huzzahs of 5,000 ‎spectators. ***Piper Peter Bowman elicited much amusement by dancing a voluntary fling in the ‎most approved old classic style."‎

‎13 January 1865 - EIGHTH ANNUAL BALL OF THE NEW-YORK CALEDONIAN CLUB. ‎"The Eighth Annual Ball of the New-York Caledonian Club took place last evening [Thursday, 12 ‎January], at the City Assembly Rooms. The ball-room was very neatly decorated. The balcony ‎at the west end of the room was hung with the American colors and the club flag, and on the ‎balcony at the opposite end of the room were displayed the tattered and war-worn colors of the ‎veteran Seventy-ninth Regiment Highlanders. The Quadrille and Promenade band furnished ‎some excellent music; and two bagpipes, played by the pipers of the club, gave forth their ‎peculiar sounds, to the evident gratification of the merry Scotchmen. The members of the club ‎were dressed in their national costume, and their numerous plaids and bright jewels contrasted ‎beautifully with with [sic] the exquisite dresses of the ladies. The rooms were very well filled, ‎and all present seemed to enter fully into the enjoyment of the evening. At the sound of the ‎bugle the couples took their places promptly on the floor, and the dancing was conducted with ‎great spirit throughout. There was no lack of partners, and the ladies needed no urging.‎
‎ About 1 o'clock an excellent supper was served, after which the company returned to the ball-‎room. Dancing was resumed and kept up right merrily until the gray streaks of early dawn came ‎stealing in through the windows and warned the happy dancers that it was time to stop.‎
‎ The balls of this club have always been quite popular [since they started in 1858], and the ‎members may congratulate themselves that this one was, if possible, a greater success than any ‎they have ever given."
[END]

So what does all of the prove? Not a whole lot when it comes to pipes in the field but never let anybody tell you that "bagpipes weren't played back then." They sure as heck were...and I haven't even hit the rest of the papers for New York, Boston, or Chicago yet. The annual Caledonian balls and games were certainly monster events at that time. What I found particularly intriguing was the mention of the 79th NYVI colors being displayed at the 8th Caledonian Ball--this certainly suggests a close relationship between the regiment and Caledonian Club although, of course, it doesn't prove anything when it comes to bagpiping. Still the above items hint that there may be some interesting documentation still awaiting discovery.

Comments?

Mark Jaeger

[markj]

Greetings,

This is strictly "FYI". Some editing has been done for clarity.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

DEPARTURE OF THE SEVENTY-NINTH REGIMENT.‎

Custom hath not stated the infinite variety of the departures of the Highland Guard, for yesterday ‎‎[Sunday, 2 June 1861], when they bade farewell to our City [New York], they were greeted with ‎an ovation, such as seldom been witnessed, even in these stirring times.

From an early hour in ‎the afternoon, the approaches to Palace Garden were crowded with eager expectants, who looked ‎and longed for the plaid with unmurmuring persistency. According to the order issued by ‎Brigadier Gen. SCOTT, the regiment was to have taken its departure at 2 o’clock, but it was soon ‎known that the hour had been changed four. By this time the streets were literally packed with a ‎surging mass of humanity. Up Fourteenth street and down Broadway there was not a window ‎unoccupied; but the fair watchers lingered many an hour ere the braves came along. About 6 ½ ‎o’clock the sound of the pibroch was heard, and soon after the kilted pipers were seen treading ‎their way through the multitude, preceded by an admirably-drilled squad of our Metropolitan ‎Police. Then came the officers, variously clad in the tartans of their clans; then the Commanding ‎Officer, Lieut.-Col. ELLIOTT, and various other military dignitaries; then the men, dressed in ‎dark jackets tipped with red, and plaid pantaloons; and then the overwhelming applause of ‎gratified thousands. ‎

The regiment numbers about 880 men, the majority of whom are extremely imposing in ‎appearance. Scotia’s fame in war, in arts, and in letters is world-wide. Looking on these, her ‎sons, as they went forth yesterday, it was not difficult to believe that her fame in the first of these ‎‎“fine arts” will be maintained and renewed on American soil. If an occasion should arise for the ‎display of valor, for the exercise of long endurance, or the exhibition of content amid scenes of ‎hardship and trial, we may rest assured that the Highland Guard will improve it and give an ‎example to others.‎
The men of whom it is composed are among the thriftiest and most industrious of our ‎community. There is scarcely one who has not sacrificed a certainty of existence to go with this ‎regiment and place his life at the disposal of the Government. It was the pibroch of ‎MCGREGOR’s that saved the heroic defenders of Lucknow, and we may depend on it that in the ‎moment of danger, the pipes of the Seventy-ninth will bring comfort to many a beleagured [sic] ‎spirit. The men are remarkably athletic; many of them have seen service in the Crimean and ‎Indian wars, and all of them are of that tough texture which prevails in North Britain, and seems ‎to be best calculated to resist exposure and privation.

The regiment was announced to leave for ‎Washington on almost every day of the past week. It has been impossible to procure a decent ‎bowl of Scotch broth since Monday last, so great has been the extremity of all the lassies. ‎Deficiencies in the equipments have led to the delay. It was determined, and wisely, that the ‎regiment should not leave until it had obtained all the arms and equipments that it required. ‎Hence, while the men were ready to move at a moment’s notice, and the officers were burning ‎with impatience, the hour of departure had to be postponed from day to day. These little ‎disappointments were all forgotten yesterday, and the Seventy-ninth marched through a ‎gathering scarcely inferior to that which assembled to bid farewell to the Seventh [New York ‎Regiment], on the 19th of April last. In the matter of enthusiasm there was no difference at all. ‎The streets were crowded, and every one cheered. No occasion can produce a more genial and ‎kindly result.‎

The Seventy-ninth were escorted by a deputation from the Caledonian Society and a reserve ‎corps of the Seventy-first Regiment, and marched to the measured rhythms of their own very fine ‎band.‎
The following is a list of the field, staff and line officers:‎
Lieutenant-Colonel, S. M. Elliott, commanding; Major, McLellan; Chaplain, David Ireland; ‎Surgeon, James Norval; Quartermaster, Patrick Home; Paymaster, B. F. Slites.‎
First Company, Capt Wm. Manson; Second Company, Capt. Farish; Third Company, Capt. ‎Barclay; Fourth Company, Capt. Brown; Fifth Company, Capt. Christie; Sixth Company, Capt. ‎Morrison; Seventh Company, Capt. Laing; Eighth Company, Capt. Colter; Ninth Company, ‎Capt. Shillinglaw; Tenth Company, Capt. Ellis.‎

‎(New York Times, Monday, 3 June 1861.)‎

[ElizabethClark]

One thing I find very interesting regarding the Caledonian club is its continued social activity all through the war... Games and all! (Note the 63 and 65 dates.)

Such "ethnic" social clubs, researched and done well, would make an interesting civilian event scenario, totally unrelated to military pursuits. It would require the development of "society" class urban impressions, as well as working class waitstaff and servant impressions, and would require an appropriate urban venue, but wouldn't it be fun??

[markj]

Hi Elizabeth,

Glad you enjoyed the "Caledonian Club" posts. I will continue to review the "New York Times" and "Chicago Tribune" for any further references to Scotch-related organizations and activities. If I find any, I'll go ahead and post them for your edification and perusal!

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[markj]

Greetings,

I found this in the Chicago "Tribune" for 25 January 1862:

SERENADED.--On Tuesday evening [21 January 1862], a party composed chiefly of those engaged in the formation of the Scotch regiment, serenaded Alex. White, Esq., H. D. Colvin, C. G. Wicker, Peter Page, and other gentlemen who have actively interested themselves in behalf of the enterprise. THEY WERE ACCOMPANIED BY TWO PIPERS ATTACHED TO THE REGIMENT [emphasis mine]. At the residences of Mr. White and Mr. Colvin, they were entertained in the most hospitable manner, and by all the other gentlemen were received with cordial good feeling.
***

In a previous post, I included a 21 January 1862 "Tribune" notice soliciting pipers for the Scotch regiment, 65th (2nd Scotch, Cameron's Highlanders) Illinois Volunteer Infantry. Based on the above, it appears the regiment was initially successful in its quest.

However, some words of warning: This does NOT prove that the two pipers actually went out into the field since I haven't yet finished reviewing "Tribune" issues for the remainder of Spring 1862. The 65th Illinois performed POW guard duty at Camp Douglas for several months while concurrently organizing and, while it officially mustered into active service on 1 May 1862, it did not depart for the field until 24 June. That made for plenty of time for those two pipers to develop second thoughts!

Still this is very interesting, to say the least!

Mark Jaeger

[markj]

Greetings,

I have found yet another Civil War-era reference to regimental bagpipers. The following is extracted from a very lengthy article in the 1 September 1866 "United States Army and Navy Journal" (p. 34) reporting on the reception and parade for President Andrew Johnson, in New York City, on Wednesday, 29 August 1866:

"The Seventy-ninth [Regiment, National Guard, State of New York], though rather weak in numbers, looked better than we remember to have seen them before. The new uniforms of blue with red facings added much to their appearance. The regiment was preceded by five Scotch pipers in full costume who played before the President as the regiment filed past in review, and by their musical efforts, succeeded in exciting his admiration, if we may use that word in its old sense of "wonderment."

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[79th N.Y.S.M.]

Even if Pipes were not used on the battlefield, there is the option of re-enacting the 79th leaving New York. I think that would be so FUN! And to all who think Bagpipes, Kilt, Glenngarrys, and other Scottish military items should not be worn i have something to say.....It would be AUTHENTIC!

[Justin Runyon]

Sure it would be accurate if you were recreating the one afternoon they left the city, other than that, not a bit. We know from reading the regimental history that all kilts save one were packed up and shipped back to NY prior to their first engagement at Bull Run. The one remainiing kilt worn by an officer was not seen after the day prior to the battle. Further, if you examine the photographs taken at Castle Pickney after the battle of captured federals, youll find some 79th'ers. The only uniform item seen in even this very early photograph is the cut out doublet intended to be worn with a sporran. No kilts, no pipes, no glengarrys. Trust me, I made the full dress uniform for the 79th some years ago, and its a shame we cant wear it anywhere, but thats the bottom line, we jsut cant wear it anywhere. IF youd like to email me soetime to get some info about the evolution of the uniform during the war, feel free.

Civilian Mods, sorry this is not strictly civilian in content, I just had too. The glaring inaccuracies of most 79th impressions has cheezed me off for years.

[markj]

Greetings,

This is strictly "FYI"--it may be of interest to those researching this subject:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2201152862

Here is the listing in cleartext in case the link is eventually broken. I am also attaching an image of the invitation itself:

1854 CALEDONIA BALL Invit'n Scotch Bagpipes Item number: 2201152862

Starting bid: US $9.99
Ended: Nov-10-03 13:47:33 PST
Start time: Nov-03-03 13:47:33 PST
History: 0 bids
Item location: Maine
United States

Seller information
haiku2( 7841)
Feedback Score: 7841
Positive Feedback: 100%
Member since Nov-17-98 in United States

Description
1854 four page embossed invitation for Caledonia Ball with music by Brown & Richardson's Waltz & Quadrille Bands, and Scotch Bagpipes, printed by Wm. Elder, Boston. 42/3x7", printed on one page only, Slight age discoloration and wear, overall very good condition. Buyer pays priority postage and insurance; MO., cash, check and BidPay accepted. INTERNATIONAL CUSTOMERS: Postal registration strongly advised.

Regards,

Mark Jaeger

[ElizabethClark]

I'm going to leave the 79th references--it's been a frustration to me in the past, too, Mr. Runyon! (And I ADORE kilts. :) )

While recreating the 79th leaving New York would be fun, there are a few things that would be hard to arrange: first, New York; second, enough kilts that are actually cut in a military style for the time; third, enough civilians of the right classes to represent the Caledonian Club... basically, while it would be nifty, it would brief, and a heck of a lot of work for a 2 hour scenario.

Thanks to Mark for continuing to contribute excllent information about Scottish Citizens and their social activities!

[79th N.Y.S.M.]

....Further, if you examine the photographs taken at Castle Pickney after the battle of captured federals, youll find some 79th'ers. The only uniform item seen in even this very early photograph is the cut out doublet intended to be worn with a sporran. No kilts, no pipes, no glengarrys....

Justin do you have this picture? If you do can you send it to me in a message? Thanks.

[Justin Runyon]

Im on my way out of town now and my scanner is currently down. Send me and email at the end of the week and I'll let you know where you can find them as I do not have them in front of me currently.

[jchristiansen]

Many of the Castle Pinckney photos Mr. Runyon refers to are in the Photographic History of the Civil War, in the volume on Hospitals and Prisons.

John Christiansen
33rd Wisconsin

[Justin Runyon]

Thanks John, That is where many of the Pickney photos appear, among other texts. They are usually easily recognizable as the boys are usually standing infront of stone doorways that have some sort or name penned over them. One I believe reads "Hotel de Zouave"

[Csayankee]

Hello all,

Well I agree that some form of pipes were played in the US during the war before and after. Some of what I have heard about there use today is lack of evidence in the South. It would be interesting to find evidence in the south in areas with high numbers of Irish or Scotts. My family settled starting around as early as 1790 in Canada. There is accounts that the MacInnis(MacInnes) clan settled in North and South Carolina in the early 1800's. Does anybody have any evidence of use of pipes in the south. Irish pipes or Scott Pipes...


Thanks
Daniel MacInnis

[hutchpat]

As long as you're looking for bagpipes in the Civil War, don't limit yourself to Celtic ethnic groups. There were large numbers of Germans in America at the time (as everyone knows), as well as Czechs, known then as "Bohemians," who tended to settle where the Germans were. Both cultures had bagpipes, thought of as a rustic instrument. A popular Czech opera from the early 1900s was "Schwanda der Dudelsackpfeiffer," or "Schwanda the Bagpiper," based on old Czech folk tales. Anyone in a German/Middle European group or impression might want to research the presence of bagpipes in their camp as well.

Dear Sir,
As the discussion has been moved to the non-military area, we encourage all posters to focus on the non-military presence of piped instruments, rather than their possible use in any war setting.

Also, one of the few rules of the forums is that every post must be signed with the full, real name of the contributor. Please edit your "automatic Signature" in your User Profile to include your first and last names.

Regards, Elizabeth Clark, Homefront Co-Moderator

[ElizabethClark]

Daniel, you might look for social reporting in newspapers from the Cape Fear area, and surrounding; there are high concentrations of Scots immigrants in that area, and social gatherings and such may be reported in local newspapers of the time.

[RJSamp]

GGG Grandmother Rosalie Klecker was from Bohemia. Family Settled near Campbellsport, Ashford Township, Fond du Lac County, Wisconsin Territory (just prior to 1848 Statehood).

Her sister, Barbara, was dating Amand Grab (evenutally my GGG Grandfather), a German. Barbara dumped Amand, broke his young heart, married a Thelen (German) which is a very prominent area family.

After the War, Amand comes home, dates the blonde younger sister, Rosalie, and marries her. So Barbara gets her come-upance. Rosalie and Amand's first daughter, named Barbara, marries Gustav Samp my GG Grandfather. Cecil, Hartland Township, Shawano County, Wisconsin, in 1887.

The Samp's, Grab's, and Klecker's were known for their musical abilities. Carol Grab Hartmann and Helen Jean Samp both Music Majors at UW MAdison. Grandpa Edward Samp played cornet at the UW, GG Grand Father Gustav founded the Cecil Silver Cornet band and played MANY instruments as needed.
Not only did the Samp's host Sunday Mass for the future St. Martin's church goers (it was being built), but they were involved with the Sunday concerts in the Park as well.

Rosalie was a soprano and played the piano.

And eventually Grandfather Edward Samp marries Margaret Helen Sullivan from the Bloody 4th Ward on the West Side of Madison. That's where the Irish and German's used to duke it out after a couple of growlers (that's a pail of beer for a nickel).

Another story. GGG uncle Conrad Mizer was instrumental in getting weekly Concerts in the Park going in Cleveland Ohio. Their is a park memorial Statue to his hard work (hey, and a website based picture of it). 7,000 attended his funeral in 1903, world famous music directors directed the band at the 1907 memorial unveiling, and World Class Opera singer Marie Velguth Mizer (father was a Corporal in the 4th MO Cavalry, US) sang for the funeral services.

I use an 1880's Bohemian made Bb Trumpet, rotary valve, copper with German Silver fittings (nickel plated brass). Only $350, as opposed to an 1862 instrument costing thousands and can't leave in a tent or have a horse (or RJ falling off ofone) land on it.

Germans, Irish, Bohemians. BRASS BANDS.

Long story short.

NO BAGPIPES.

It's time to become Plain , Everyday, and Common. PEC.

Learn to ride a horse, hitch up a buggy, sing 50 church hymns with the verses only (no music allowed, EVERYONE already knows the tunes), and cook a chicken dinner starting with a LIVE chicken. That's PEC. If you can already do this, then you are ahead of most of us and on your way to becoming authentic.....as a civilian or a military authentic reenactor.

That would advance the hobby. Bohemian bagpipes. I am absolutely ecstatic that you have learned how to wash your fine wool clothes.....and no you don't use water.

RJ Samp

rjsamp@ameritech.net

[ElizabethClark]

Actually, Mr. Samp, the posts shared previously on the thread point to limited use of bagpipes in some civilian social settings. Primary sources positively refute a blanket "no pipes" statement.

I agree that they are not anything common for military use, and not so common as the popular brass band for everyday life. Your suggestions for common musical skills and such of the time are excellent--but the condescending comments and blanket statements are not needed.

I'm not "up" on brass instruments, but in the interests of Period Correctness, how accurate is it to reproduce brass band music with an instrument from two decades post-war, rather than a reproduction of one from the actual war years or before? Substituting one era for another won't work with Scottish things.

With pipes and other Things Scottish, there is a problem of using modern Highland Nostalgia, or even late Victorian Highland Nostalgia, and considering it "period correct"--this is incorrect, and is what most balk at regarding the use of appropriate ethnic bits in any impression: the kilted "Rob Roy meets The Games Tent" soldier squeaking out "Highland Cathedral" at 10pm.

That, however, is not what we're discussing here: we're discussing what, if any, accurate uses for bagpipes can be found in the non-military world of the 1860s, and what, if any, application that has to civilian reenactment.

So far, the general concensus is:

In some limited, upper-middle to upper class social clubs, bagpipes and other "Highland Revival" items were used, possibly in mimic of Queen Victoria's popular revival (and in some cases, re-invention) of Scottish culture. They are not a common, or even "atypical-but-enough-to-represent" element of military reenactment. Which is why the whole thread is being discussed in the Civilian sections, rather than any military section.

Everyone, please continue to share Non Military, primary source mentions of cultural items...