Where is the Navy When you Need them?

[Andrew Fraize]

Was just curious after looking over the AC BBS.

Does it not have a fourm for the Navy & Marine reenactors to post and ask their questions? Noticed there was one for the Cavalry. Just not enough intrest out there?

Having had an intrest in Civil War Naval reenacting I was curious to learn more on that part of our hobby.

Tks.
S!

[JohnTaylorCW]

[QUOTE=Andrew Fraize]Was just curious after looking over the AC BBS.

Does it not have a fourm for the Navy & Marine reenactors to post and ask their questions? Noticed there was one for the Cavalry. [QUOTE]

I suspect the answer may in part be found in the Campaigner's Manifesto:
7. I usually portray the typical common soldiers who made up the great mass of men on the two sides during the Civil War. My impression may reflect regional variations in clothing and equipment and changes over time during the war. I can vary my personal impression to suit differing locations and dates of depicted events. Except in very special circumstances, however, I avoid presenting exotic impressions such as Zouaves, marines, sharpshooters, sailors, highlanders, and such.

For the sake of discussion, if an infantry campaigner involves marching (yes, I know it involves more, work with me here) and authentic cavalry involves horses and proper drill, unless in appropriate circumstances, what would an authentic sailor involve?

(Andrew, I ex-navy reserve myself, so I understand your curiosity.)

John T

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

There is a Navy & Marine Civil War Re-enacting group/forum over on Yahoo where you can ask questions,

Greg Starbuck

[Andrew Fraize]

For the sake of discussion, if an infantry campaigner involves marching (yes, I know it involves more, work with me here) and authentic cavalry involves horses and proper drill, unless in appropriate circumstances, what would an authentic sailor involve?

(Andrew, I ex-navy reserve myself, so I understand your curiosity.)

John T

Well from the couple I have been involved with doing research and the one I actually physically turned out with - a Naval or Marine impression could involve much more than the average Infantry man. To add to that it is "Unusual" in that most people don't realize the Navy even had anything to do with the war!

For example there is the usual Formation Drill, Rifle and Bayonet drill of the Infantryman but there is usually also Cutlass Drill and if the group is lucky enough - even Boat and Artillery Drill as well as operations. Several of the groups have associations with Forts and Sailing Ships where they can do their impressions. Not to mention Garrison Duty and field campaigning to a certain degree. Some of the groups to make up for the lack of "Historical" type events enter in the NSSA matches as a group for "Live Fire" competitions with period weapons. In may ways you can get more out of the Naval impression than the common Infantryman. (Food is usually better also. ;) )

While I will admitt that chances for Sailors and Marines to take part in big rolling Land battles (Shiloh, Gettysburg, etc.) are few and far between, there are several where Sailors and Marines were present for the battles and did take part - 1st Mannassas, Vicksburg, Mobile Bay, Drewery's Bluff and right where I live, St. Charles, Arkansas* (PLUG :D ) are just a couple that come to mind.

IMO more should be done to bring this aspect of Civil War reenacting to the front stage but it's not everyones cup of grog. I would say it is geared more to either someone with a deep interest in the Civil War Navies of the time or just an "Individualist" that just doesn't want to be part of the Grey or Blue masses. But, that is just my opinion and I am predigest on the subject. :D

Tks for the tip on the Naval Board on Yahoo.
S!

[marine05]

We funny that you should mention the other drills. Artillerymen are also supposed to know sword drill, but most reenactors simply burn powder. There is a huge amount of artillery drill, on and around the gun that most units have no clue about. Plus there is a ton of reenactor made up artillery drill. I have read extensively about it and in no manual of the period that I have found for field artillery is there a drill step for wet and dry sponging.

Thanks again for brining up the Navy and Marines, but as an active duty Marine I had thought of becoming a Marine reenactor, however their usage is so limited that I didn't feel it was worth the effort if one wanted to reenact more frequently.

s/f

DJM

[Tom Ezell]

Well from the couple I have been involved with doing research and the one I actually physically turned out with - a Naval or Marine impression could involve much more than the average Infantry man. To add to that it is "Unusual" in that most people don't realize the Navy even had anything to do with the war!

While I will admitt that chances for Sailors and Marines to take part in big rolling Land battles (Shiloh, Gettysburg, etc.) are few and far between, there are several where Sailors and Marines were present for the battles and did take part - 1st Mannassas, Vicksburg, Mobile Bay, Drewery's Bluff and right where I live, St. Charles, Arkansas* (PLUG :D ) are just a couple that come to mind.


Ahoy!

Andrew:

It's not that we haven't given it some thought...

All references to the "Royal WIG Navy" aside, it would take a great deal of effort to come up with a decent naval impression... City class ironclads being sort of hard to come by these days, and they sold the little steamboat they used to have in North Little Rock out from under us. Some fellow up around St. Louis is reputedly working on trying to build an ironclad (see http://www.pookturtles.com) but apparently is making about the same relative progress as Mr. Eads' original contractors. And if we did get one, it would be sort of dicey getting it up the Arkansas because of its draft and the shallow channel -- our up-and-coming Arkansas Navy submarine (ex-USS Razorback) is currently aground just above Natchez for the same reason. If I should hit the lottery, though, I plan to throw in with those St. Louis guys and terrorize the White River fisheries with our replica of the Carondelet. Until then, cottonclad bass boats are just, well... somewhat lacking in style.

A pard from Arkansas State acquired a couple of the faux 32-pounders used to film Glory some years ago, so it may be feasible someday to do a living history at St. Charles... the guns from the movie are fibreglas, and use some sort of propane fuel and ignition to make the muzzle flash, everything else is sort of added in afterwards when editing the film. The original pieces are still out there in the channel somewhere, in the silt just downstream from the old battery site.

your pard,

Tom

[Mike Ventura]

Propane? Muzzle flash?

Ummm...think I'll have to pass on this one!

[Canebrake Rifle Guards]

If you want to do some bono fide living history on real Civil War ships, you can talk to the Kearsarge Afterguard (USS Constitution) or the Ship's Company (USS Constellation). Both actively provide quality living history upon real floating ships. The Constellation has a bow gun which they drill with and fire. Stay away from fiberglass guns unless you're doing a movie.

Greg Starbuck

[Andrew Fraize]

1. All references to the "Royal WIG Navy" aside, it would take a great deal of effort to come up with a decent naval impression... City class ironclads being sort of hard to come by these days

2. And if we did get one, it would be sort of dicey getting it up the Arkansas because of its draft and the shallow channel -- our up-and-coming Arkansas Navy submarine (ex-USS Razorback) is currently aground just above Natchez for the same reason.

3. If I should hit the lottery, though, I plan to throw in with those St. Louis guys and terrorize the White River fisheries with our replica of the Carondelet. Until then, cottonclad bass boats are just, well... somewhat lacking in style.

4. A pard from Arkansas State acquired a couple of the faux 32-pounders used to film Glory some years ago, so it may be feasible someday to do a living history at St. Charles... the guns from the movie are fibreglas, and use some sort of propane fuel and ignition to make the muzzle flash, everything else is sort of added in afterwards when editing the film. The original pieces are still out there in the channel somewhere, in the silt just downstream from the old battery site.

your pard,

Tom

Hey Capt'n Tom!

I guess it's time to set the "Army" straight. ;)

1.Not really. While not close, there is a nice one at Vicksburg in "Slightly Used" condition. Though it would have to be worked out with the park service, would it not be killer for certain events or times of the year for sailors to actually "Man" the USS Cairo and explain things to visitors as they toured the ship? Or seeing the crew drill on the grounds near the ship? Though I agree this is more along the line of "Living History" it is a route to go.
Besides Sailors and Marines did much more during the war than ride ships up and down the river - especially the CSN sailors. Most of them manned Heavy Artillery and fought in the trenches right along side the soldiers - especially the Riverine Sailors of the CSN.

2. A City Class Ironclad doesn't have NEAR as much draft as a modified Gato/Balio Class SSK Diesel Sub. If they could get them up into the far reaches of some of the Southern Rivers (i.e. White & Arkansas) that they did during the Civil War - shouldn't be any problem with todays river improvments by the Corps of Engineers.

3. Before you think of "terrorizing" the White River fisheries - the last Yankees that tried it "Got their Pook Turtle Dented" :D before the Army pulled their can out of the fire and THEY had 2 of them (Mound City & St. Louis) along with two Tin-Clads (Lexington & Conestoga) for support. Took a whole REGIMENT to push the C.S.N and 35 Soldiers from the 37th Ark. Inf. away from their guns.
Battle of St. Charles is noted for the most destructive single shot of the Civil War. One round from a 32 lb. cannon pierced the steam drum on the USS Mound City killing close to 150 men.

4. Why use fakes - we got the ORIGINALS right here. One is actually situated in it's position that it occupied during the battle and pointed down river. All we need are 2 10 pound Parrots and a 12 lb. Brass Howitzer. Too bad the property is developed - would make a great place for a historical site. If I hit the lottery I am going to buy it all back and turn it into a battlefield park. :D
As for the "Propane Guns" - seen some versions of the WW2 .50 & .30 cal. machine guns and along with the blanks can be DAMN impressive! Would love to see what a 32 lb. cannon on this system would do! MUHAHAHAHA!

But that is all besides the point...... and has nothing to do with Naval Reenacting per say.

A long time ago there was a project going on there in LR to build a replica of the Ironclad CSS Arkansas on a barge to be used as a Museum Attraction/Place for renactors by the Arkansas Naval Museum (Same bunch with Sub I believe). I even doniated to it. Never heard what happened to the project.
Another group I was associated with briefly down in Texas had advanced plans to build a reduced sized version of the USS/CSS CLIFTON for their group. But it's been awhile since I heard anything about it.

There were several other groups out there also at that time - the James River Squadron, Savanah River Squadron & the Submarine Battery Service plus a few minor ones. Would that not be interesting to the public at large to see how NAVAL MINES where laid and used in combat during the Civil War?

But I will admitt - most of the "NAVAL" stuff does work better toward living history than actual battle campaigning by it's nature. (Unless they will let the "Cotton Clad Bass Boat" in. :D ).

BTW: I have been racking my brains on how to build and transport a 40' SQUIB Class steam powered torpedo boat. You Yankees better not sleep too close to the water! MUHAHAHAHA! ;)

S! Pards