Linen summer civilian vest

[Blum]

Good morning,

I wanted to make a summer civilian vest, with off-white linen front body, fine cotton shirting lining and mother of pearl buttons but I need to know witch will be the best cloth for the back ?
I suppose off white cotton will be fine but witch one ? Drill, canvas, same fabric as the lining ?

Also, a standard civilian vest must be padded on the fronts but what about a linen summer vest ?

Thank-you for your advise !

[Jefferson Guards]

Lining/back

The lining and back on my original summer weight vest is of the same material. It is a medium weight plain weave white cotton.

Padding

Summer weight vests very often had a removable padding which was buttoned inside the lining. The padding on my original was positioned and removed through an access created at the armscye where the lining was not sewn to the vest fabric, thus allowing the entry into the void between the vest front and the vest lining. A buttonhole was worked into the lining to allow the padding to be buttoned and secured in position. Although my vest was obtained without the removable padding. Most removable padding that I have seen is a simple sandwich of materials with a button on it.

If you need photographs I can provide.

[Carolann Schmitt]

Lining/back

The padding was positioned and removed through an access created at the armscye's where the lining was not sewn to the vest fabric, thus allowing the entry into the void between the vest front and the vest lining.

In addition to the access through the armscye, I've also examined original vests with the access via one of the side seams. The padding is a layer of wool batting sandwiched between two pieces of lightweight muslin. The raw edges of the pad are not finished; they are simply overcast. This construction technique allows you to "thin" and shape the edges of the pad, creating a smooth silhouette on the outside of the garment.

If keeping cool is a consideration, you may wish to make the back of your vest from a single layer of fabric instead of lining it.

[Jefferson Guards]

Carolann,

Correct me if I am wrong, but the two major reasons for the removable padding were; ease of laundering the vest (when the weather gets hot clothing gets dirty 'nuf said) and also on the extraordinarily hot days, the padding could be removed to help relieve the heat.

[Blum]

Very interesting !

Yes, Brian, it may be very interesting to haves some pictures of your original vest ! Especially close wiew of the fabrics and the removable padding opening.

If it is possible without too much disturb you…

Probably, I will not make mine with removable padding, if it is also correct, because, without the original at home, i think it will too difficult to do it right.

Thanks a lot

[Carolann Schmitt]

Carolann,

Correct me if I am wrong, but the two major reasons for the removable padding were; ease of laundering the vest (when the weather gets hot clothing gets dirty 'nuf said) and also on the extraordinarily hot days, the padding could be removed to help relieve the heat.

That is a consensus reached by several researchers and clothing historians. However, I do not have a primary source that quotes those specific reasons. It may be another example of something that was considered to be common knowledge and therefore did not need documenting. There may also be other reasons that haven't been uncovered.

[Jefferson Guards]

"Probably, I will not make mine with removable padding, if it is also correct, because, without the original at home, i think it will too difficult to do it right."

Actually the way the vest in my possession is constructed it is very simple. Basically, rather than having the seam closed completely, a few inches of the front seam are left open and the edges turned under and overcast. Then you just have the buttonhole worked in the lining in the chest area. I will post photographs Monday after I get home from this event.

Also--Many of the "summer" vests I have seen also have removable buttons, but I have also seen those with permanent buttons.

Carolann, am I totally losing my mind, but was there once a linen vest without padding and with no provisions for removable padding at the conference in, I think, 2003?

~Brian
(A prisoner of the too many vestings not enough polished cotton situation)

[Blum]

"I will post photographs Monday after I get home from this event."


Thank-you and have a good event !

[Carolann Schmitt]

Carolann, am I totally losing my mind, but was there once a linen vest without padding and with no provisions for removable padding at the conference in, I think, 2003?

Actually I think we had 5-6 linen or cotton pique vests without padding and no provisions for removable padding at that conference, but with 85+ vests on exhibit I didn't get an exact count. :) And I've examined another 3-4 since then.

Padding in the vest front is not an absolute; variables can include body shape, garment style, and tailor's preference.

[Blum]

«*The padding is a layer of wool batting sandwiched between two pieces of lightweight muslin. The raw edges of the pad are not finished; they are simply overcast.*»Carolann Schmitt

You don’t speak about pad-stitching. Is it appropriate on that sort of padding ?
What sort of button is it the more standard for sewing on the padding, please ?
I suppose removable padding are also appropriate for common wool vests, not only for the lightweight summer vests ?

what a lot of questions it is possible to ask about a so little thing ! :)

[Carolann Schmitt]

You don’t speak about pad-stitching. Is it appropriate on that sort of padding ? What sort of button is it the more standard for sewing on the padding, please ? I suppose removable padding are also appropriate for common wool vests, not only for the lightweight summer vests ?

There is a minimal amount of pad-stitching; just enough to hold the layers togther and provide some slight shaping if needed. The buttons are flat (no shank), frequently shell or mother-of-pearl. I don't immediately recall seeing a common wool vest with removable padding. If our consensus (remove the padding for laundering or to stay cool) is correct, it would not necessarily apply to common wool vests.

what a lot of questions it is possible to ask about a so little thing !

Oh, but it's such an interesting garment, with so many variables! :)

[Blum]

Thank you for your kindness and for sharing your knowledge !

[Blum]

Hi everyone,

Brian had sending to me the vest pictures he had promise earlier but, because he has a problem to put them on the Forum, he ask me to do that for him.

Here they are !

Nice pictures ! Wonderful documentation Brian ! Thanks a lot !

[Blum]

Yes, it's work ! ;)

here are other one...

[David Swarens]

Beautiful pictures of a fine vest, with very nice fancy buttons too!

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the Past Patterns summer waistcoat pattern.

You can view this on Saundra Ros Altman's "Past Patterns" web site, at http://pastpatterns.com/018.html

This pattern, while "prewar," provides a pattern document of the removable padding, the opening to insert same, button placement, and such, as has been so well covered in this discussion.

And as usual, comprehensive notes accompany the pattern to provide context.

This is a fine pattern, with a great "period" fit, and I am gratified that it has finally been released (a double breasted version is apparently in the wings).

I think everyone with an interest in this area should know about it, and support the firms and individuals who provide such resources, so that this sort of effort/product will remain available to all of us!

Yours,
David Swarens

[David Swarens]

I just looked at the dates of the post, and am no longer "surprised," but still recommend a look at the Past Patterns vest!

Yours,
David Swarens

[rebjeb04]

Hello All,

I was thinking of using the new Past Pattern Shawl waistcoat. I was going to make it from a off-white cream colored silk/cotton blend of a woven stripe pattern and line it with a cream silk satin for dress wear. Would such a vest need the removable padding or padding at all? Should I use a white polished cotton and back or stay with the silk satin?

Thanks, and great thread!

[ElizabethClark]

Some amount of padding gives a nice smooth look in the chest (so I'd use 'em), but it might not be removable for the style/textiles you're thinking of using.

[rebjeb04]

Thanks Elizabeth,

Going to all those conferences and stuff you must have seen a ton of these! One last thing should I use the silk satin for the backing as well as the interior of the waistcoat?

Thanks Brian for the great pictures.

Erik,

[Carolann Schmitt]

Erik -

I have 20+ original c.1855-1865 vests in my collection and have examined perhaps 70+ more. I can't recall seeing a single one from this period with a silk or silk satin lining. The linings have varied from plain cotton to glazed cotton to cotton twill - usually white or off-white in color - but no silk. I'd be interested in knowing of any original mid-19thc. vests with a silk lining.

I've personally not examined any original American vests from this period that had a silk back. They too have been made from a cotton of some sort - frqeuently glazed. We had a similar discussion on another forum and someone posted some pre-war English references for a vests with a silk back, but those are the only references I've found to date. Based on my information to date, it appears a silk back would be rather unusual for this era.

With the exception of some of the lightweight summer vests, the majority of the vests I've examined have some form of padding in the chest. The amount varies with the fit and the wearer. The silk vests in my collection do not have removable padding.

Regards,

[rebjeb04]

Hey Carolann,

Thanks for the info! Glad I have not yet purchased that silk satin!!! I think Chas. Childs has some of the polished cotton, which would probably make a good lining and back, etc. Could you post a few images of one of the padded vests? I think it would add great interest to this thread aside from being very helpful for myself.

I will post an image of Col. Amedee Bringier of Louisiana wearing a nice white silk? vest. It is a pre-war painting ca. 1845-1850. I would like to create the image of this vest as much as possible.

Thanks again,

[ElizabethClark]

Folks like Carolann Schmitt are my mentors when it comes to men's things... Carolann has handled a LOT more original vests than I have ever seen, so her summaries are far more accurate than mine as to the backing fabrics, etc. I was simply going on what I've picked up as common construction techniques for wool/silk vests as opposed to the light linen summer vests. :)

[MLovejoy]

I've been planning on working on a civilian style vest this winter, and I was hoping to use a nice brocade for the facing. I have found a few retailers through the civilian approved vendors who have posted links to manufacturers/retailers with limited results. Is there anyone out there who might know who or where I would be able to find some variety in style of brocades? I would like very much to have paisley pattern to work with.