Sack coats for Confederates

[bmbeeman]

I've been looking into confederate uniforms and what they looked like at different times in the war. The two coats I come across the most are frock coats (early war) and shell jackets (late war) but never any mention of sack coats. I'm just curious to see where sack coats fit into all this, what I'm really trying to do is make myself more authentic looking, and I don't thinbk it's correct for me to be wearing a sack coat. I'm trying to portray an 1863-1864 Confederate soldier from Florida, and I'm having trouble finding information about what the soldiers of Florida wore, thanks.

[CFHicks]

You'll find that Floridians were wearing a lot of plain grey jackets with between six and nine button fronts (just like everybody else). Check out the Florida Memory website to get a better idea.

www.floridamemory.com
Click on "photographic collection" or some such and then get to work! A search for confederate+portraits will get you on the right trail.

There's also a time and a place for the CS sack coat of course, there being a picture somewhere on that website of a kid in the 1st Fla Cav (I think...) in a six button coat with two slash pockets and which otherwise might be mistaken for an NC coat. It's thought to have been part of a contract order from some VA or NC company and it's not likely to have seen any widespread service amongst our types.

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i90/swampdizzle1775/rc11553.jpg

[Seamus]

Brett;

The mid-war Florida Confederate soldier mostly relied on C.S. Government issue clothing. The State was in no position to provide enough clothing for it's troops.

In Tallahoma, Tenn. on January 22nd 1863, William D. Rogers of the 1st Florida Volunteer Infantry write to his parents: "I received my clothes by Capt. Leigh and am a thousand times obliged. Everything is the nicest you ever saw, couldn't have been made to fit any better if they had been cut by a tailor. Everybody admires them. I could have sold them out for any price. I was offered ten dollars a piece for my shirts, but it was no use talking, money couldn't buyanything I got from home. I have no other clothing now, except one jacket, but was made at home".
manuscript courtesy Stones River National Military Park

Wahington Ive's of the 4th Florida Infantry wrote on from Chattanooga, Oct. 31, 1863: "The Army has just drawn comfortable winter clothing and blankets, the coats are dark and light grey, (mostly with blue collars and cuffs) the pants light and dark grey, similar goods to the jackets, but what kind goods it is, I have never seen or heard, ( I don't know) or even a person sho could tell what kind of goods it is except it is worsted, a cross between casshmere and jeans, very warm and durable".
Manuscript courtesy Florida State Archives

In regard to the image of Walter Parker, 1st Fla. Cav. Colonel Davis, commander of the 1st Fla. Cavalry, purchased uniforms himself for his regiment from Baldwin & Williams, of Richmond, Va. These uniforms were similar to North Carolina State sack coats.
Information from "American Military Equipage,1851-1872, Volume II, State Forces, by Frederick Todd.

Conclusions: This is just a fraction of the information I have on the clothing and equipment of Florida soldiers during the war. I included only Army of Tennessee units as examples because you mentioned you are protraying a soldier of the 3rd Florida. My suggestions for an authentic impression would be:
A great deal of citizen's clothing, especially for early war.
depot issue jacket, my suggestion would be what is known as the "Columbus Depot" jacket.
Avoid U.S. issue items, such as caps and trousers. Get a grey cap and grey trousers.
Keep it simple. Avoid hat brass and six-pointed stars. Too many of us in Florida wear them.

Hope this is of help. If you need more info, send me a message.

James Permane,
Lt. Colonel,
Dept. of the Gulf
Keep it simple and plain

[bmbeeman]

Thanks, this helped me out a lot, I've been looking for a site with pictures of Florida's soldiers. My current uniform is a dark grey sack coat, black civilian trousers, and a black felt slouch hat. My cartridge box has a Florida star breastplate, issued to me upon enlistment, and I wear a pewter Florida State buckle on my belt. I have commissioned my mother to sew me a jean cloth shell jacket in hopes that it will be cooler than wool in the hot Florida sun (would it be incorrect fot my jacket to have epaulettes?) I'm also looking into getting a grey forage cap with the McDowell brim. How close I am to being historically accurate, and what can I do to "fix" my impression.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

I would highly recommend ditching any of the Florida star insignia, plates, or buckles, as the vast amount of research has shown that any of the afore mentioned items were issued prewar to militia units, with the amounts ordered exhausted before the vast majority of any other units were mustered in. This includes also Florida state buttons, as there were two kinds previously issued in the state. The originals are the rarest of most of the southern states. As for headgear, there is evidence of blue kepis being issued to several regiments from Florida in 61 and 62, with a gold trimmed kepi issued to the 7th Regiment at their mustering that is like that pictured in several units from the Department of Georgia and West Tennessee. Although it looks like a typical officer's kepi, it was indeed issued to the enlisted ranks with the trim configured on it. Florida troops recieved equipment in a variety of ways - through Confederate arsenals, depots, and commutation systems where money was given to the units to procure their own uniforms and equipment. This will allow for great variation in what men wore, even within one's own regiment. With much research being done several years ago, the evidence for private purchase hats for everything much past late '62 is strong, as there are no returns (records) for military caps for many Florida units, so the speculation is on civilian hats (slouches, etc.). Avoid straw hats like that of a well-known mainstream unit in Florida, as they were not common, fell apart very easily, and were never issued to whole units at a time like they would suggest. I also discourage the use of any hat brass or insignia, as there is no evidence in the returns of there issue as well. There are several photos of the Florida star, but like previously stated, they were in the low number pre-war units, but there is little documentation whatsoever for Florida belt plates or worse yet, the twisted palm tree insignia that is sold on skinner's rows throughout the state. Also, the infamous Florida palm tree belt plate is that of a South Carolina militia unit and never issued in Florida. For further research on your own, I highly recommend the book "Southern Service on Land and Sea" the journal of Robert Watson of Co K, 7th Florida and the CSS Savannah, as well as the diary of Washington Ives of the 4th Florida. There are also a handful of other journals and diaries available from such units as the Hernando Wildcats from Pvt Ellis which you can locate through local historical societies, the State of Florida archives, and through inter-library loan.

[bmbeeman]

Thanks, I'm looking into getting a copy of some of the journals of various Florida soldiers, I never realized there was so much out there about Florida. I appreciate the help you all have given me, I guess I'm off to do some research and modify my impression.

[47thNYReb]

Jeez, Ross, and you asked me why I only go Federal? Being Confederate is too hard. All that research and what-not. :tounge_sm See you in the field, Thomas N. Rachal.

[Ross L. Lamoreaux]

Yeah, no kidding Thomas! The sad reality though is there is just as much research to correctly do Federal, its usually just easier to find. Florida Confederates had more uniforms varieties than you can shake a stick at, and of course the record keeping wasn't the greatest, or if it was, alot is lost. With Federal uniforms and equipment, there are some great resources such as state archives, several photographs to look at, and several first-person accounts to help out.

[GASharpshooter]

I've been reading on the 2nd Florida Inf, as it was mustered in near me. Sounds like shell jacket or civilian using gray wool or jean cloth would be the way to go. I'm going to model my impression on them. Hopefully I'll get to keep my Georgia frame buckle.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hello,


I know that the 4th Florida infantry part of Sovall's Brigade Army of Tennessee used Columbus Depot jackets. Wambaugh, White and Company make a copy of the jacket used by the 4th Florida.


Andrew Kasmar

[GASharpshooter]

[QUOTE=Ross L. Lamoreaux;35085]Avoid straw hats like that of a well-known mainstream unit in Florida[QUOTE]

:)

We wear kepis or felt, I currently wear a black felt. Is a ribbon band ok, and is ribbon around the brim ok?

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hello,


About the jacket with shoulder straps, most jackets with shoulder straps are Richmond depot type one and two which would not be correct for Army of Tennessee. That being said their were some amount of commutation jackets were used in the Army of Tennessee, and these some times did have shoulder straps. The commutation jacket was most heavily in 1861 and 1862, but they were issued in the West in small amounts for the whole war.

Andrew Kasmar

[OldKingCrow]

Hello,

The commutation jacket was most heavily in 1861 and 1862, but they were issued in the West in small amounts for the whole war.

Andrew Kasmar

The commutation jacket was not an issued garment, but one that was procured by the soldier for which he was reimbursed by the CS government.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Sorry, I did miss write about the jacket. I agree they were not issued by the South, I just used the wrong word.

Andrew Kasmar

[OldKingCrow]

No need for sorry pard, welcome to the boards.

CJR

[Andrew Kasmar]

Hi,

I would go with a Confederate wool jean kepi or a hat, rather than a Confederate forage cap, since forage caps were generally a early war issue. A good place to get a kepi or a hat is Trans-Mississippi Depot, Richmond Depot, and Dirty Billy Hats.

Andrew Kasmar

[Jon The Beloved]

I'm fairly new to CW reenacting and have not purchased a Confederate jacket (that's always the kicker) I am a native Tennessean looking to portray the AOT... What does the AC community think about a Confederate jean wool sack coat with the trademark dark French blue trim i.e. Columbus Depot style or even the Alabama Depot style? I'm still perplexed that the depots would not have made sacks and of course I realize that most homespun commutation jackets would have been well worn out by the time of a late war impression. I really want to purchase a very different looking jacket.. not just what everybody else has on the field.. BUT I know that that's exactly what most reenactors swear by.. uniformity and what can be most readily documented. I also understand that the rule of thumb is to begin my impression in such a way and if I should so choose to purchase oe make a sack coat like the one I described.. then I may at some point later depending on the event. It's just so hard. I'm a picky man with different tastes. If not this, then what about a modified/shortened frock coat with similar trim.. I guess I'd just like something with a short skirt. Any suggestions though?

I cannot wait to hear the expected.."you need to purchase a generic depot issue for your first jacket!" Forgive my ignorance.

[BrisbaneReb]

Dear Jon

Unless you have historical evidence of a sack coat with dark blue trim I would not recommend it.
There is of course the T.V. Brooke 'sack coat/jacket', which has 4-buttons, is slightly longer in length than the typical shell (but with the same structure and body), an outer pocket and has black collar trim. There has been endless debate whether this was a late-war Virginian garment or Confederate-wide all-war style - there is a thread on this somewhere (The CS 4-Button Jacket - I think). There is no consensus on where this was made or had a depot manufacturer so you may look into this one if you want to be different. The other CS depot sack coat I can think of is the NC one...but they're early-war Va. so that cancels that out for a Tennessee impression.
Black trim was very common on CS garments, especially in the commutation period, either added by the reciever at a later date or when sent from home.
Of course you can bite the bullet, find an original sack-coat and make one.

PS Add you full name at the bottom your posts mate - its AC rules.

[Jon The Beloved]

Paul,

Thanks for the input. Any info to direct me to the right mindset and sources helps. I'm really considering purchasing a sack style coat and adding trim to it. If anyone else out there has input about my first uniform jacket/coat, by all means comment. I will be purchasing said jacket in late July.

Thanks,

Jon Harris